Car Park fine

[k***@ntlworld.com]

I was wheel clamped in Stevenage Leisure Park and feel I was trapped by
deliberately unclear signage. As far as I knew it was just a free car
park

The signs have text that is too small (one inch high) to read on entry
or parking. Also the warning is hidden in all this waffle( the exact
wording):
Stevenage Leisure Park

Safer car Park Charter

The Stevenage Leisure Park Management Team is committed to taking all
reasonable steps to ensure the safety and security of all car park
users along with their possessions.

The Security staff will conduct regular patrols of the car park and
monitor entrances and exits by either physical checks or Closed Circuit
Television, 24 hours each day.

Requests for help and advise by users of the facility can be made
directly to any of the patrolling security officers or by calling at
the main office located in the Management Suite.

Designated disabled car parking bays exist for those in possession of
the blue badge and this area is heavily monitored to ensure
unauthorised parking does not take place.

Car parking is free for all venue users and overnight parking is
permitted.

Reports of graffiti will be responded to within 24 hours. General
cleaning takes place daily from 0600 - 2200hrs daily.

Car park user satisfaction will be measured through feedback surveys
and the results published from time to time.


Help us provide you with a safer car park
Security office Tel [phone].
The main text as I've shown above is all approximately 25mm / 1 inch
high. I went back to the site to see how I missed any warnings. I also
took photos. To read the sign I had to leave the car and cross the
road. ( my eyesight is perfect). While doing this my car nearly cased a
collision between a car leaving and one entering. It's not in a good
place to stop. The shouting between the two drivers was obscene!
Just under the above sing is this one (also 25mm letters) :
Stevenage Leisure Park

Town centre / Station users are not permitted to park on Stevenage
Leisure Park. Cars may only be Parked here for the period that
customers are actually using the facilities of the Leisure Park. No
unauthorised parking is permitted.
Stevenage leisure Park Management.
This sign is also in a few areas around the perimeter of the large car
park. From my parking space the nearest warning of any type was one of
these. It was 35 meters from my space so way too far.

The best warning that was in the park was a paper black and white
notice attached to some lamp posts (not in my area) and the footbridge
which I crossed. The text is about 1 ½ or 2 inches this time. It was
raining on the day. If I saw it I probably took no notice. It looked
like someone advertising something.
WARNING PRIVATE PROPERTY
24 HOUR WHEEL CLAMPING

Stevenage Leisure Park is PRIVITE PROPERTY. UNLESS YOU ARE USING THE
LEISURE PARK FACILITIES WHILE THE VECHICLE IS PARKED, YOU ARE ILLEGALLY
PARKED AND YOUR VECHICLE WILL BE CLAMPED.

TERMS OF PARKING:
YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK TO YOUR PROERTY YOU AGREE TO YOUR VEHICAL
BEING CLAMPED AND ONLY RELEASED UPON PAYMENT OF A PARKING AND
REALSE FEE OF £125.00
NOTE-UNCLAMED VEHICALS WILL BE TOWED AT A FINE OF £155.00
PLUS £25.00 PER DAY STORAGE.
The phone number for the clamping contractors is given at the bottom.


I was clamped because I crossed the bridge.

Should I go to court or take some other action on this basis:

1.The signs are not clear and Noticeable

2. The Charge was excessive. £125 plus £5 to pay by Debit card. I
have seen that the Police won a case where a £200 was deemed
excessive.


I have already appealed to clamping company but they rejected it.


Anyone have knowledge or experience of how these cases go?

[Alex Heney]

On 11 Aug 2006 16:25:13 -0700, ***@ntlworld.com wrote:

<snip>

Post by k***@ntlworld.com
The phone number for the clamping contractors is given at the bottom.
I was clamped because I crossed the bridge.
1.The signs are not clear and Noticeable
2. The Charge was excessive. £125 plus £5 to pay by Debit card. I
have seen that the Police won a case where a £200 was deemed
excessive.
I have already appealed to clamping company but they rejected it.
Anyone have knowledge or experience of how these cases go?

Raise a claim against them using moneyclaim online
<www.moneyclaim.gov.uk>

They won't refund your money until yo do that, but they almost
certainly will when you do, because they haven't got a leg to stand
on.

Take photos of all the signs, to use as evidence in the unlikely event
that they do contest the claim.

These cowboys rely on people just paying up and not taking it any
further.

To be enforceable, those signs MUST be clear and easily visible, and
virtually impossible to miss prior to you taking the action that would
result in clamping.

Some people say they must be readable from within your car prior to
parking, but I am not convinced of that, provided they are visible and
obvious what they are before parking, and you can leave without
penalty once you have got out to read the detail.

[M.I.5Ÿ]

Post by Alex Heney
<snip>

Post by k***@ntlworld.com
The phone number for the clamping contractors is given at the bottom.
I was clamped because I crossed the bridge.
1.The signs are not clear and Noticeable
2. The Charge was excessive. £125 plus £5 to pay by Debit card. I
have seen that the Police won a case where a £200 was deemed
excessive.
I have already appealed to clamping company but they rejected it.
Anyone have knowledge or experience of how these cases go?

Raise a claim against them using moneyclaim online
<www.moneyclaim.gov.uk>
They won't refund your money until yo do that, but they almost
certainly will when you do, because they haven't got a leg to stand
on.
Take photos of all the signs, to use as evidence in the unlikely event
that they do contest the claim.
These cowboys rely on people just paying up and not taking it any
further.
To be enforceable, those signs MUST be clear and easily visible, and
virtually impossible to miss prior to you taking the action that would
result in clamping.
Some people say they must be readable from within your car prior to
parking, but I am not convinced of that, provided they are visible and
obvious what they are before parking, and you can leave without
penalty once you have got out to read the detail.

I have to disagree with that last part. The Ts&Cs must be established prior
to the parking contract being struck. In a free park this occurs when you
park up, stop the engine and get out*. Any Ts&Cs that then comes to light
after that point are a unilateral variation to the struck contract and
unenforceable.

*This point may vary in a non free park, for example in a 'pay and display'
park, the contract is not struck until the P&D machine issues the ticket.

[Willy]

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
I have to disagree with that last part. The Ts&Cs must be established prior
to the parking contract being struck. In a free park this occurs when you
park up, stop the engine and get out*.

"Parking Contract", what does the car owner provide by way of
consideration for this "Struct Contract"?

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
*This point may vary in a non free park, for example in a 'pay and display'
park, the contract is not struck until the P&D machine issues the ticket.

What if the car owner never pays for this at the machine, are you
saying that no contract exists? or do we treat the contract as your
first suggestion? the one without any consideration supplied by the
parker?

[M.I.5Ÿ]

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
I have to disagree with that last part. The Ts&Cs must be established prior
to the parking contract being struck. In a free park this occurs when you
park up, stop the engine and get out*.

"Parking Contract", what does the car owner provide by way of
consideration for this "Struct Contract"?

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
*This point may vary in a non free park, for example in a 'pay and display'
park, the contract is not struck until the P&D machine issues the ticket.

What if the car owner never pays for this at the machine, are you
saying that no contract exists? or do we treat the contract as your
first suggestion? the one without any consideration supplied by the
parker?

--------------------------

This was covered in another thread (more or less). It has to be clear that
the car park is a 'pay and display' before the car is parked (this is
usually by a large sign at the entrance that says "Pay and Display Car
Park" - or something similar). This establishes that the contract has to be
completed by paying for the parking at the ticket machine, where the full
Ts&Cs can be displayed. If the car park is not clearly a pay and display,
then the charges may be difficult to enforce.

[Willy]

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
This was covered in another thread (more or less). It has to be clear that
the car park is a 'pay and display' before the car is parked (this is
usually by a large sign at the entrance that says "Pay and Display Car
Park" - or something similar). This establishes that the contract has to be
completed by paying for the parking at the ticket machine, where the full
Ts&Cs can be displayed. If the car park is not clearly a pay and display,
then the charges may be difficult to enforce.

I am aware of the other threads, but I have asked two questions on your
reasoning in this thread:

(1) "Parking Contract", what does the car owner provide by way of
consideration for this "Struct Contract"?

(2) What if the car owner never pays for this at the machine, are you
saying that no contract exists? or do we treat the contract as your
first suggestion? the one without any consideration supplied by the
parker?

[M.I.5Ÿ]

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
This was covered in another thread (more or less). It has to be clear that
the car park is a 'pay and display' before the car is parked (this is
usually by a large sign at the entrance that says "Pay and Display Car
Park" - or something similar). This establishes that the contract has to be
completed by paying for the parking at the ticket machine, where the full
Ts&Cs can be displayed. If the car park is not clearly a pay and display,
then the charges may be difficult to enforce.

I am aware of the other threads, but I have asked two questions on your
reasoning in this thread:

(1) "Parking Contract", what does the car owner provide by way of
consideration for this "Struct Contract"?

--------------

Struct? Error: Word not in Dictionary.

The car owner provides the car. This was covered in another thread. When
you park a car (or deposit any article for keeping by someone else, you
enter into a 'Contract of Bailment'. The other person agrees to look after
it (though this can be negated by the terms and conditions). No money has
to change hands for a Contract of Bailment to exist. If the car is damaged,
the owner would sue under this contract.

(2) What if the car owner never pays for this at the machine, are you
saying that no contract exists? or do we treat the contract as your
first suggestion? the one without any consideration supplied by the
parker?

----------------

The Ts&Cs almost certainly prescribe some penalty for the failure to pay.

[Willy]

Post by M.I.5Ÿ
Struct? Error: Word not in Dictionary.
The car owner provides the car. This was covered in another thread. When
you park a car (or deposit any article for keeping by someone else, you
enter into a 'Contract of Bailment'. The other person agrees to look after
it (though this can be negated by the terms and conditions). No money has
to change hands for a Contract of Bailment to exist. If the car is damaged,
the owner would sue under this contract.
(2) What if the car owner never pays for this at the machine, are you
saying that no contract exists? or do we treat the contract as your
first suggestion? the one without any consideration supplied by the
parker?
----------------
The Ts&Cs almost certainly prescribe some penalty for the failure to pay.

LOL