Discussion:
"New powers for police to hack your PC"
(too old to reply)
Doug
2011-02-02 07:52:30 UTC
Permalink
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...

"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the
threat of a legal challenge after granting permission. Ministers are
also drawing up plans to allow police across the EU to collect
information from computers in Britain.

The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a
steady extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal
privacy..."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-to-hack-your-pc-1225802.html

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
One person's democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.
the-sbray
2011-02-02 09:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the
threat of a legal challenge after granting permission. Ministers are
also drawing up plans to allow police across the EU to collect
information from computers in Britain.
The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a
steady extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal
privacy..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-...
-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
 http://www.zing.icom43.net
One person's democracy is another person's Police State,
 where rights are replaced by concessions.
This news story is over a year old.
Doug
2011-02-03 07:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by the-sbray
Post by Doug
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the
threat of a legal challenge after granting permission. Ministers are
also drawing up plans to allow police across the EU to collect
information from computers in Britain.
The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a
steady extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal
privacy..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-...
This news story is over a year old.
Yes but its still happening and even more relevant today given the
recent exposure of our secret police.
Post by the-sbray
Post by Doug
-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
One person's democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.
"Nightjar
2011-02-02 09:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant....
But will it do them much good? When I ran a web site, I had to have my
computers regularly attacked by auditors for the credit card companies.
Had they been able to find any vulnerability I wold have lost my
accreditation for online card handling. It is not difficult to prevent
even professional attacks.

Colin Bignell
Rupert Bear
2011-02-02 11:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Nightjar
Post by Doug
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant....
But will it do them much good? When I ran a web site, I had to have my
computers regularly attacked by auditors for the credit card companies.
Had they been able to find any vulnerability I wold have lost my
accreditation for online card handling. It is not difficult to prevent
even professional attacks.
Colin Bignell
How would you know if you were being snooped on..??

...........................
"Nightjar
2011-02-02 14:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert Bear
Post by "Nightjar
Post by Doug
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant....
But will it do them much good? When I ran a web site, I had to have my
computers regularly attacked by auditors for the credit card companies.
Had they been able to find any vulnerability I wold have lost my
accreditation for online card handling. It is not difficult to prevent
even professional attacks.
Colin Bignell
How would you know if you were being snooped on..??
In the case of the web site, I would get a detailed report from the
auditors every time they tried.

Colin Bignell
alang
2011-02-02 09:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers
without a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the
threat of a legal challenge after granting permission. Ministers are
also drawing up plans to allow police across the EU to collect
information from computers in Britain.
The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a
steady extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal
privacy..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-to-hack-your-pc-1225802.html
Mafeking has been relieved
Phil Stovell
2011-02-02 09:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers without
a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the threat of a legal
challenge after granting permission. Ministers are also drawing up plans
to allow police across the EU to collect information from computers in
Britain.
The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a steady
extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal privacy..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-to-hack-your-pc-1225802.html
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
Jethro
2011-02-02 09:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Stovell
Post by Doug
As our Police State tightens its stranglehold on us...
"Police have been given the power to hack into personal computers without
a court warrant. The Home Office is facing anger and the threat of a legal
challenge after granting permission. Ministers are also drawing up plans
to allow police across the EU to collect information from computers in
Britain.
The moves will fuel claims that the Government is presiding over a steady
extension of the "surveillance society" threatening personal privacy..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-powers-for-police-...
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
However, there will be a delicious irony, when cases come to court:

defence: And how do you know the information you gathered was not
planted by someone taking control of the suspects computer without
their knowledge.

prosecution: well, we took control of the suspects computer without
their knowledge ....
AndyW
2011-02-02 09:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Stovell
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
A nice open source OS with full disk encryption and a proper passworded
account will quickly stop all that nonsense.

Windows home security is laughable at best and full of holes. The downside
is that if you forget your Linux password you are well and truly stuffed -as
I have done on one of my laptops. With windows if you forget your password
you just go into any admin account and walla! tis all there.
If that fails just use a linux live distro and it ignores windows security
anyway.

Andy
Phil Stovell
2011-02-02 10:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by AndyW
Post by Phil Stovell
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
A nice open source OS with full disk encryption and a proper passworded
account will quickly stop all that nonsense.
Windows home security is laughable at best and full of holes. The downside
is that if you forget your Linux password you are well and truly stuffed
-as I have done on one of my laptops. With windows if you forget your
password you just go into any admin account and walla! tis all there. If
that fails just use a linux live distro and it ignores windows security
anyway.
Andy
Put all your terrophile photography in a hidden container on a TrueCrypt
volume. It also runs on Windows, but one cannot be certain Windows doesn't
phone home with your passphrases.
AndyW
2011-02-02 11:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Stovell
Put all your terrophile photography in a hidden container on a TrueCrypt
volume. It also runs on Windows, but one cannot be certain Windows doesn't
phone home with your passphrases.
Thankfully I have no terrophile stuff but it did occur to me that any watch
kept on my activities must raise a flag soon.

I deal with kids and so visit kid related sites.
I have an interest on WWII and visit sites on guns & Hitler
I shoot and so visit hunting sites
I spend time in the hills, heavily wooded areas and diving and so have a
working collection of knives, machetes, bill hooks and axes.
I have an interest in hacking (hardware and software) and so delve around
those bits of the web
I have made potato cannons, sensing equipment, remote camera systems (for
deer & badger watching), remote control camera buggies for videoing down
rabbit/fox holes etc etc
My wife is an astronomer so we buy & use telescopes and big binoculars.
I scour dogging websites when due to take youngsters out walking in case we
stumble on doggers.
I am now reseraching hydroponics for my greenhouse and am visiting a lot of
site on the fringe of cannabis production.

I should just turn myself in now. :-)

Andy
Phil Stovell
2011-02-02 11:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by AndyW
Post by Phil Stovell
Put all your terrophile photography in a hidden container on a TrueCrypt
volume. It also runs on Windows, but one cannot be certain Windows
doesn't phone home with your passphrases.
Thankfully I have no terrophile stuff but it did occur to me that any
watch kept on my activities must raise a flag soon.
I deal with kids and so visit kid related sites. I have an interest on
WWII and visit sites on guns & Hitler I shoot and so visit hunting sites
I spend time in the hills, heavily wooded areas and diving and so have a
working collection of knives, machetes, bill hooks and axes. I have an
interest in hacking (hardware and software) and so delve around those bits
of the web
I have made potato cannons, sensing equipment, remote camera systems (for
deer & badger watching), remote control camera buggies for videoing down
rabbit/fox holes etc etc
My wife is an astronomer so we buy & use telescopes and big binoculars. I
scour dogging websites when due to take youngsters out walking in case we
stumble on doggers.
I am now reseraching hydroponics for my greenhouse and am visiting a lot
of site on the fringe of cannabis production.
I should just turn myself in now. :-)
Andy
Pervert!
Zapp Brannigan
2011-02-04 00:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by AndyW
Thankfully I have no terrophile stuff but it did occur to me that
any watch kept on my activities must raise a flag soon.
I deal with kids and so visit kid related sites.
I have an interest on WWII and visit sites on guns & Hitler
I shoot and so visit hunting sites
I spend time in the hills, heavily wooded areas and diving and so
have a working collection of knives, machetes, bill hooks and axes.
I have an interest in hacking (hardware and software) and so delve
around those bits of the web
I have made potato cannons, sensing equipment, remote camera
systems (for deer & badger watching), remote control camera buggies
for videoing down rabbit/fox holes etc etc
My wife is an astronomer so we buy & use telescopes and big
binoculars. I scour dogging websites when due to take youngsters out
walking in
case we stumble on doggers.
I am now reseraching hydroponics for my greenhouse and am visiting
a lot of site on the fringe of cannabis production.
I should just turn myself in now. :-)
No need, I just did it for you.
Cynic
2011-02-02 15:37:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:13:42 +0000, Phil Stovell
Post by Phil Stovell
Put all your terrophile photography in a hidden container on a TrueCrypt
volume. It also runs on Windows, but one cannot be certain Windows doesn't
phone home with your passphrases.
I've looked at the source code for TrueCrypt, and it is unlikely that
Windows would know when you are entering your pass phrase in order to
select those keystrokes for special attention. But for the paranoid,
use a keyfile together with your passphrase. The keyfile can be kept
on a memory stick or card, on a different encrypted container, or
anywhere else. Keep the key file with you at all times, and you can
ensure that nobody can open your container in your absence even if
they know your passphrase. You could similarly use a security token
or smartcard.

If plod/MI5 perform a dawn raid to grab your PC, then they will also
search you and your house and seize all memory cards and computer
media they find, so in that case they will have your keyfile as well.
You could stick it in an obscure location (either physically or in a
file system) and hope plod/MI5 will not know it is needed or find it,
or you could keep it close to you at all times on a CD or floppy so as
to be able to physically destroy it before plod/MI5 have a chance to
stop you. Another possibility is to store your key file on an
overseas server and only download it when you need to use it, and wipe
it from your local system immediately after you mount your container.
Yet another possibility is to remember a few specific bytes in your
keyfile, and change them to something else using a hex editor such as
"debug". Then copy the keyfile to a temporary file and edit it back
to its correct value every time you need to use it, again wiping the
temporary file afterwards.

It's all to little avail in the UK however, because plod will charge
you under RIPA section 3 if you do not provide them with the means to
decode the file. OTOH if you destroy the keyfile *before* receiving a
section 3 notice, AFAIAA you cannot be convicted of failing to hand
over the key (but could possibly be charged for PCJ if it can be
proven that a crime actually exists).
--
Cynic
Phil Stovell
2011-02-03 00:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cynic
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:13:42 +0000, Phil Stovell
Post by Phil Stovell
Put all your terrophile photography in a hidden container on a TrueCrypt
volume. It also runs on Windows, but one cannot be certain Windows
doesn't phone home with your passphrases.
I've looked at the source code for TrueCrypt, and it is unlikely that
Windows would know when you are entering your pass phrase in order to
select those keystrokes for special attention. But for the paranoid, use
a keyfile together with your passphrase. The keyfile can be kept on a
memory stick or card, on a different encrypted container, or anywhere
else. Keep the key file with you at all times, and you can ensure that
nobody can open your container in your absence even if they know your
passphrase. You could similarly use a security token or smartcard.
If plod/MI5 perform a dawn raid to grab your PC, then they will also
search you and your house and seize all memory cards and computer media
they find, so in that case they will have your keyfile as well. You could
stick it in an obscure location (either physically or in a file system)
and hope plod/MI5 will not know it is needed or find it, or you could keep
it close to you at all times on a CD or floppy so as to be able to
physically destroy it before plod/MI5 have a chance to stop you. Another
possibility is to store your key file on an overseas server and only
download it when you need to use it, and wipe it from your local system
immediately after you mount your container. Yet another possibility is to
remember a few specific bytes in your keyfile, and change them to
something else using a hex editor such as "debug". Then copy the keyfile
to a temporary file and edit it back to its correct value every time you
need to use it, again wiping the temporary file afterwards.
It's all to little avail in the UK however, because plod will charge you
under RIPA section 3 if you do not provide them with the means to decode
the file. OTOH if you destroy the keyfile *before* receiving a section 3
notice, AFAIAA you cannot be convicted of failing to hand over the key
(but could possibly be charged for PCJ if it can be proven that a crime
actually exists).
FFS,

http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability
Cynic
2011-02-03 12:54:24 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 00:35:35 +0000, Phil Stovell
Post by Phil Stovell
Post by Cynic
It's all to little avail in the UK however, because plod will charge you
under RIPA section 3 if you do not provide them with the means to decode
the file. OTOH if you destroy the keyfile *before* receiving a section 3
notice, AFAIAA you cannot be convicted of failing to hand over the key
(but could possibly be charged for PCJ if it can be proven that a crime
actually exists).
FFS,
http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability
Yes, that's where Truecrypt might have screwed the system quite well.

Here's a true story.

I know of a case late last year where a person had all their computer
equipment seized by the police. Months later all the equipment was
returned *except* for a single hard disk drive (out of about 20 HDDs)
that had been whole-disk encrypted with Truecrypt (nothing else had
been encrypted). The person was told that the police were
"considering their options" wrt that disk because of the "nature of
the data" it contained. A few weeks later the disk was returned and
the case was NFA'd without further comment, and without the police
ever having even asked politely for the passphrase.

Based on that single incident and a bit of reasoning, I am *guessing*
that section 3 will not usually be authorised for Truecrypt encrypted
data. Here's my reasoning:

1) Section 3 of RIPA, which allows the police to demand a person to
decrypt any encrypted data, was fraught with controversy from the
start, and eventually enacted quite a while after the rest of RIPA had
been in force.

2) The police may not use that section as they like, but must submit a
request higher up the chain (I think the Home Office BICBW) before a
demand to produce the means to decode the data under RIPA can be
issued.

3) The Home Office have given assurances that Section 3 will be used
rarely, and will not be used unless there is a very solid reason to
believe that the encrypted data contains evidence of a serious crime.

4) Many politicians are keeping a close eye on how many notices are
issued each year, and of those notices how many have resulted in no
evidence of criminal activity being found in the decrypted data.

Obviously if it is used too many times on (apparently) innocent data,
there will be questions raised as to whether the power is being
abused, and a very real risk of the law being retracted by the new
government. Thus ISTM that the Home Office will want to be reasonably
sure that incriminating data will be found if the data is decrypted
before issuing the demand.

If someone with a bit of technical savvy exists in the Home Office
(which I know is questionable), they may possibly realise that there
is a significant risk that a Truecrypt disk, even if it is used to
store incriminating data, could have such data in a hidden section,
and the suspect would then obviously give the dummy password when
demanded by a section 3 notice - which would then go down in the
statistics as being a case where section 3 was used unnecessarily.

Thus there may be a strong political reluctance to use section 3 when
Truecrypt encryption is involved.

I am therefore *guessing* that in the case described, the police had
in fact requested a RIPA section 3 notice, and the request had been
refused (or the police had been given indications that a request would
not be granted if applied for).

I know that it is a very tenuous theory based on very little evidence,
and reasoning that may be a tad too logical to believe from a
politician, so nothing to rely on, but the case I know of certainly
shows that the police will not *automatically* turn to RIPA whenever
they seize encrypted data.
--
Cynic
Jethro
2011-02-03 13:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 00:35:35 +0000, Phil Stovell
Post by Phil Stovell
Post by Cynic
It's all to little avail in the UK however, because plod will charge you
under RIPA section 3 if you do not provide them with the means to decode
the file.  OTOH if you destroy the keyfile *before* receiving a section 3
notice, AFAIAA you cannot be convicted of failing to hand over the key
(but could possibly be charged for PCJ if it can be proven that a crime
actually exists).
FFS,
http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability
Yes, that's where Truecrypt might have screwed the system quite well.
Here's a true story.
I know of a case late last year where a person had all their computer
equipment seized by the police.  Months later all the equipment was
returned *except* for a single hard disk drive (out of about 20 HDDs)
that had been whole-disk encrypted with Truecrypt (nothing else had
been encrypted).  The person was told that the police were
"considering their options" wrt that disk because of the "nature of
the data" it contained.  A few weeks later the disk was returned and
the case was NFA'd without further comment, and without the police
ever having even asked politely for the passphrase.
Based on that single incident and a bit of reasoning, I am *guessing*
that section 3 will not usually be authorised for Truecrypt encrypted
1) Section 3 of RIPA, which allows the police to demand a person to
decrypt any encrypted data, was fraught with controversy from the
start, and eventually enacted quite a while after the rest of RIPA had
been in force.
2) The police may not use that section as they like, but must submit a
request higher up the chain (I think the Home Office BICBW) before a
demand to produce the means to decode the data under RIPA can be
issued.
3) The Home Office have given assurances that Section 3 will be used
rarely, and will not be used unless there is a very solid reason to
believe that the encrypted data contains evidence of a serious crime.
4) Many politicians are keeping a close eye on how many notices are
issued each year, and of those notices how many have resulted in no
evidence of criminal activity being found in the decrypted data.
Obviously if it is used too many times on (apparently) innocent data,
there will be questions raised as to whether the power is being
abused, and a very real risk of the law being retracted by the new
government.  Thus ISTM that the Home Office will want to be reasonably
sure that incriminating data will be found if the data is decrypted
before issuing the demand.
If someone with a bit of technical savvy exists in the Home Office
(which I know is questionable), they may possibly realise that there
is a significant risk that a Truecrypt disk, even if it is used to
store incriminating data, could have such data in a hidden section,
and the suspect would then obviously give the dummy password when
demanded by a section 3 notice - which would then go down in the
statistics as being a case where section 3 was used unnecessarily.
Thus there may be a strong political reluctance to use section 3 when
Truecrypt encryption is involved.
I am therefore *guessing* that in the case described, the police had
in fact requested a RIPA section 3 notice, and the request had been
refused (or the police had been given indications that a request would
not be granted if applied for).
I know that it is a very tenuous theory based on very little evidence,
and reasoning that may be a tad too logical to believe from a
politician, so nothing to rely on, but the case I know of certainly
shows that the police will not *automatically* turn to RIPA whenever
they seize encrypted data.
--
Cynic
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.

I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
Cynic
2011-02-03 13:59:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.
I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.

Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years. There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.

Not that anyone is going to spend £millions on cracking an encrypted
system unless the stakes are very high indeed - involving national
security or the future of multinational companies rather than any
normal crime.
--
Cynic
Nice_Paula
2011-02-06 23:15:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.
I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.
Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years.  There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.
Quantum computing (although only in its foetus stage) might break
these sorts of code easily one day, as quantum computing effectively
operates outside of time, allowing all possible combinations to be
resolved via a collapsing super-state.
So plod might just be taking a complete copy of the encryped data and
holding it for the future.
Jethro
2011-02-07 11:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nice_Paula
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.
I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.
Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years.  There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.
Quantum computing (although only in its foetus stage) might break
these sorts of code easily one day, as quantum computing effectively
operates outside of time, allowing all possible combinations to be
resolved via a collapsing super-state.
So plod might just be taking a complete copy of the encryped data and
holding it for the future.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
One of the factors in determining encryption strategies, is the "life"
of the plaintext ... a military command for action tomorrow is useless
if it gets decryted in advance, and is useless if decrypted after the
event - save for any clues the enemy might gain from the decryption
process. Hence the daily key change the Nazis enforced for Enigma.

Cynic has suggested a few times recording the digitised output of RF
spectrum analysis, and filling hard disk after hard disk with it -
keep them busy.
Ste
2011-02-07 19:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nice_Paula
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.
I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.
Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years.  There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.
Quantum computing (although only in its foetus stage) might break
these sorts of code easily one day, as quantum computing effectively
operates outside of time, allowing all possible combinations to be
resolved via a collapsing super-state.
Lol. Anything is possible in the imagination.
Post by Nice_Paula
So plod might just be taking a complete copy of the encryped data and
holding it for the future.
Lol. Fortunately the law does not operate outside of time, nor does
the human body. Offences are likely to be statute-barred, and
offenders deceased, before "quantum computing" gets going.
Phil Stovell
2011-02-07 22:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ste
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase. I'm not an expert in
encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.
Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years.  There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.
Quantum computing (although only in its foetus stage) might break these
sorts of code easily one day, as quantum computing effectively operates
outside of time, allowing all possible combinations to be resolved via a
collapsing super-state.
Lol. Anything is possible in the imagination.
So plod might just be taking a complete copy of the encryped data and
holding it for the future.
Lol. Fortunately the law does not operate outside of time, nor does the
human body. Offences are likely to be statute-barred, and offenders
deceased, before "quantum computing" gets going.
Unless they can pass the information back in time.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-physicists-method-timelike-entanglement.html
Doug
2011-02-08 09:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nice_Paula
Post by Cynic
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 05:30:46 -0800 (PST), Jethro
Post by Jethro
Another (tin hat time) possibility, assuming the number of cases are
*very* small (i.e. there has been some real police work done to
correctly assess the case to be of vital importance) then rather than
use RIPA - which by definition involves the suspects "cooperation",
would be to pass the disk to the dark arts of GCHQ. To be honest I
have no idea how they would manage to crack it, but it stands to
reason it would be easier to try one a year than 1,000. Especially as
even using Truecrypt, I understand a lot of systems are weakly
protected by the choice of passphrase.
I'm not an expert in encryption, so I'll stop there.
I'm fairly familiar with modern encryption, and AFAIK there is no
realistic possibility of GCHQ or any other agency cracking Truecrypt
encryption except by a dictionary attack, which will not work on any
passphrase that has been chosen reasonably carefully.
Computing power is increasing all the time however, and that may not
hold true for many more years.  There is also the possibility of a
breakthrough in mathematical techniques that will allow the "one-way"
mathematical formula that is the basis of most modern encryption
methods to be reversed far more easily than we presently know how to
do.
Quantum computing (although only in its foetus stage) might break
these sorts of code easily one day, as quantum computing effectively
operates outside of time, allowing all possible combinations to be
resolved via a collapsing super-state.
So plod might just be taking a complete copy of the encryped data and
holding it for the future.
I am very pessimistic about attempts to avoid repressive police
surveillance of political protests. I used to think that the best
method was face to face contact in private meetings until police
infiltrators were recently exposed. Lets face it, our cops are
everywhere and equipped with the very best technology, when and if
they know how to use it, to defeat political dissent and protect the
State against change. In Britain today, as a protester, you either
have to brave it out or not protest at all. Paranoid encryption is all
very well but it tends to restrict readership and may give a false
sense of security.

OTOH police closely monitored sites like Twitter, Facebook, etc can at
least draw in new supporters and swell crowds, while any resulting
police provocation and violence at demos might provide useful
publicity from the mainstream media, which tends to ignore anything
peaceful anyway.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
One person's democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.

Adrian
2011-02-02 11:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>

Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from Americans,
but...

THE WORD IS "VOILA".
Phil Stovell
2011-02-02 11:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>
Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from Americans,
but...
THE WORD IS "VOILA".
A small voilin?
Adrian
2011-02-02 11:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Stovell
Post by Adrian
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>
Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from
Americans, but...
THE WORD IS "VOILA".
A small voilin?
I've managed so far to resist resorting to voilence. But...
AndyW
2011-02-02 12:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by Phil Stovell
Post by Adrian
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>
Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from
Americans, but...
THE WORD IS "VOILA".
A small voilin?
I've managed so far to resist resorting to voilence. But...
Do you also go on Lolcats and correct the speeling and grammer there?

This is fun

Andy
AndyW
2011-02-02 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>
Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from Americans,
but...
THE WORD IS "VOILA".
Really, you don't say?

Would it have helped if I had made the ! into !!!111!1!!111! ?

Andy
Adrian
2011-02-02 12:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by AndyW
Post by Adrian
Post by AndyW
and walla! tis all there.
<grits teeth, tries to restrain self>
Look, I can just about cope with that level of ignorance from
Americans, but...
THE WORD IS "VOILA".
Really, you don't say?
Would it have helped if I had made the ! into !!!111!1!!111! ?
It would.

I've clearly been spending too much time on fora inhabited by 'merkins of
late. My apologies.
AndyW
2011-02-02 12:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
I've clearly been spending too much time on fora inhabited by 'merkins of
late.
<AOL>

Me too!!11!!

</AOL>

but it is fun annoying them. Especially to be told things like "You speak
good English for a foreigner"

Andy
Szymon von Ulezalka
2011-02-02 12:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Stovell
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
yes. you have to run minix3 (with all 4 applications on it)- thats the
only OS made mostly in Europe.
AndyW
2011-02-02 12:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Szymon von Ulezalka
Post by Phil Stovell
Yet another reason not to run American supplied operating systems and
software.
yes. you have to run minix3 (with all 4 applications on it)- thats the
only OS made mostly in Europe.
Nothing to do with Europe it is more to do with international.

Linux is an international OS editable by anyone with the skill and
inclination.

MS and Apple are US companies so any legislation changes to include spy
routines can be done. With a global open source OS it cannot be done. Even
if it were forced by a government it is free to download from the net and
I'm sure that someone would create a script to remove the routines from the
source and recompile with a click.

Unlikely event but you never know.

Andy
Szymon von Ulezalka
2011-02-02 13:21:16 UTC
Permalink
... unless someone adds back-door and nobody can be bothered to check
it.. (like nobody bothered to check debian's openssh copied by ubuntu
and other distros)
and about 'editablity'- well... it is editable, it's a shame that,
despite many 'years of linux on desktop', in terms of easyness it's
still far behind windows /yes, i'm using it /i.e. linux/ for years
now/

but, than again- with opensource at least there is a chance to finding
it :|

szymon
allantracy
2011-02-03 15:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Don't worry they're not interested in a bunch of silly kids, like UK-
Uncut, with plenty of growing up still to do.
Big Les Wade
2011-02-03 17:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by allantracy
Don't worry they're not interested in a bunch of silly kids, like UK-
Uncut, with plenty of growing up still to do.
Unfortunately, the evidence is that they are.
--
Les
Doug
2011-02-04 07:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Les Wade
Post by allantracy
Don't worry they're not interested in a bunch of silly kids, like UK-
Uncut, with plenty of growing up still to do.
Unfortunately, the evidence is that they are.
The State is obviously interested in any participant of a public
political protest because of the risk of it escalating and ultimately
influencing government policy and public perception. That is why the
police concentrate so much time on trying to criminalising such
activities, on the basis of any evidence they can root out or dream up
so that arrests and charges can be made to discredit an unregulated
political protest.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
One person's democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.
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