ADT mis-selling

[Johnny]

Hello all,

First of all, I am in the UK (England)...

About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...

It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!

Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).

When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.

The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
profit from the minimum of 3 years @ £24.95. But £500 installation just
takes the biscuit.

I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the contract.

My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?

I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).


Thanks in advance.

[Richard 3rd]

Post by Johnny
Hello all,
First of all, I am in the UK (England)...
About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...
It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!
Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).
When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.
The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
takes the biscuit.
I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the contract.
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).
Thanks in advance.

My guess is that they have every financial angle covered, these monitored
alarms are one big rip off, steer clear is my advise.

[Johnny]

Post by Johnny

Post by Johnny
Hello all,
First of all, I am in the UK (England)...
About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...
It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!
Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).
When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.
The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
takes the biscuit.
I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the

contract.

Post by Johnny
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing

the

Post by Johnny
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an

Ademco

Post by Johnny
Accord XP C).
Thanks in advance.

My guess is that they have every financial angle covered, these monitored
alarms are one big rip off, steer clear is my advise.

I never had any gripes with the monitoring side of things, although they did
once ring the keyholder when the alarm went off - instead of me first.

My beef with them is simply that I was NEVER told that it was a 'rented'
alarm system.
I've searched on google groups, and it appears to be a bit of a common sales
tactic :( surely they can't get away with this?

I do know that the BBC have been sniffing around, and think that their
Watchdog or Rogue Traders programme may be doing a piece on them shortly -
hopefully they'll get their comeupance....

[fly in the ointment]

Post by Johnny
My beef with them is simply that I was NEVER told that it was a 'rented'
alarm system.
I've searched on google groups, and it appears to be a bit of a common sales
tactic :( surely they can't get away with this?

Do you still have your original contract? What does it say?
js

[Johnny]

Post by fly in the ointment

Post by Johnny
My beef with them is simply that I was NEVER told that it was a 'rented'
alarm system.
I've searched on google groups, and it appears to be a bit of a common

sales

Post by Johnny
tactic :( surely they can't get away with this?

Do you still have your original contract? What does it say?
js

When I said "I was NEVER told that is was a 'rented' alarm system" I meant
verbally told by the salesman (although technically he's not a SALESman as
it wasn't sold to me.

The small print states that it's rented. I'm not disputing the fact that I
*should* have looked more carefully, I've learnt that lesson now (the hard
way), but I thought I was dealing with a 'reputable' company, not some
shadey cowboys who stoop to sneaky little sales tricks like this.

The fact remains - I WAS tricked, the salesman never mentioned (apart from
the small print in contract) the equipement was 'rented'.

[Spike]

I've both bought and rented vehicles and I was never confused about whether
I was buying or leasing. Something ain't right here.

Post by Johnny

Post by fly in the ointment

Post by Johnny
My beef with them is simply that I was NEVER told that it was a 'rented'
alarm system.
I've searched on google groups, and it appears to be a bit of a common

sales

Post by Johnny
tactic :( surely they can't get away with this?

Do you still have your original contract? What does it say?
js

When I said "I was NEVER told that is was a 'rented' alarm system" I meant
verbally told by the salesman (although technically he's not a SALESman as
it wasn't sold to me.
The small print states that it's rented. I'm not disputing the fact that I
*should* have looked more carefully, I've learnt that lesson now (the hard
way), but I thought I was dealing with a 'reputable' company, not some
shadey cowboys who stoop to sneaky little sales tricks like this.
The fact remains - I WAS tricked, the salesman never mentioned (apart from
the small print in contract) the equipement was 'rented'.

[fly in the ointment]

Post by Johnny
When I said "I was NEVER told that is was a 'rented' alarm system" I meant
verbally told by the salesman (although technically he's not a SALESman as
it wasn't sold to me.

Well if it wasn't sold to you, and you say you didn't know it was rented,
what exactly was it, a gift?

Post by Johnny
The small print states that it's rented. I'm not disputing the fact that I
*should* have looked more carefully, I've learnt that lesson now (the hard
way), but I thought I was dealing with a 'reputable' company, not some
shadey cowboys who stoop to sneaky little sales tricks like this.

The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself make
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Post by Johnny
The fact remains - I WAS tricked, the salesman never mentioned (apart from
the small print in contract) the equipement was 'rented'.

[Frank Olson]

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself make
the alarm company disreputable.

Gawd you're good!! :-)

[Johnny]

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself make
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Believe me, I have big list of faults with ADT, this was just one of them.

The engineers have missed more appointments for routine inspections than
appointments made on time (not the engineers fault, it's the
administration).

How about the CCTV system I had that broke in August 2002, engineer came and
went (informing his manager that it needed fixing/replacing), November 2002
I complained to them that NOTHING had been done, end of November 2002 they
took the recording unit away - January 2003 I still ain't got it, although
apparently it's sitting in the managers office fixed!!! WTF, it's no good
there, it's mine!!! Here we are November 2003 and ADT still have my
recording unit....THAT'S how reputable they are. (They've since 'disposed'
of MY recording unit and have now offered me a 2nd hand unit.....)

[fly in the ointment]

Post by Johnny

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself

make

Post by fly in the ointment
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Believe me, I have big list of faults with ADT, this was just one of them.
The engineers have missed more appointments for routine inspections than
appointments made on time (not the engineers fault, it's the
administration).

I do not doubt you. ADT is the AOL of the alarm industry here, from what
I've seen.
js

[Jackcsg]

Yeah, if we could just get ADT to start losing 330,000 customers a quarter
like AOL, that would be even nicer.

Jack

Post by fly in the ointment

Post by Johnny

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself

make

Post by fly in the ointment
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Believe me, I have big list of faults with ADT, this was just one of them.
The engineers have missed more appointments for routine inspections than
appointments made on time (not the engineers fault, it's the
administration).

I do not doubt you. ADT is the AOL of the alarm industry here, from what
I've seen.
js

[Peter Ramm]

Post by Johnny

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself

make

Post by fly in the ointment
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Believe me, I have big list of faults with ADT, this was just one of them.
The engineers have missed more appointments for routine inspections than
appointments made on time (not the engineers fault, it's the
administration).
How about the CCTV system I had that broke in August 2002, engineer came and
went (informing his manager that it needed fixing/replacing), November 2002
I complained to them that NOTHING had been done, end of November 2002 they
took the recording unit away - January 2003 I still ain't got it, although
apparently it's sitting in the managers office fixed!!! WTF, it's no good
there, it's mine!!!

Are you sure????
--
Pete Ramm
***@removethisntlworld.com

Stamp out Spam - See my anti-spam pages:
http://www.spamfreezone.org

[Johnny]

Post by Peter Ramm

Post by Johnny

Post by fly in the ointment
The fact that you did not read your contract does not in and of itself

make

Post by fly in the ointment
the alarm company disreputable.
js

Believe me, I have big list of faults with ADT, this was just one of them.
The engineers have missed more appointments for routine inspections than
appointments made on time (not the engineers fault, it's the
administration).
How about the CCTV system I had that broke in August 2002, engineer came and
went (informing his manager that it needed fixing/replacing), November 2002
I complained to them that NOTHING had been done, end of November 2002 they
took the recording unit away - January 2003 I still ain't got it, although
apparently it's sitting in the managers office fixed!!! WTF, it's no good
there, it's mine!!!

Are you sure????

Yes, amazingly it is mine - although the contract is near identical to the
one for the alarm, just a tiny bit of small print changed.

[XxXxXx]

Post by Johnny
Hello all,
First of all, I am in the UK (England)...
About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...
It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!
Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).
When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.

They told you in the small print.

Post by Johnny
The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
takes the biscuit.
I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the contract.

That pretty much sums up your position.

Post by Johnny
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).
Thanks in advance.

The gist of your tale is that you signed a contract without reading it
carefully.

[Paul C]

Total package for your equipment I can purchase for around £175

Post by Johnny
Hello all,
First of all, I am in the UK (England)...
About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...
It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!
Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).
When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.
The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
takes the biscuit.
I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the contract.
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).
Thanks in advance.

[Johnny]

Post by Paul C
Total package for your equipment I can purchase for around £175

Got a link?
I searched on the net for some time, but could actually find any prices for
this particular system online.
I'm thinking of getting one and just handing it to the engineer that comes
round (an engineer actually turned up last friday without appointment, so I
just told him to get lost). Basically I'd prefer the system I've got in
because it's already installed (the wires are passed through the ceiling -
not an easy task to do myself!!).

[JoeRaisin]

I wouldn't expect them to take out the wires as well as the devices. I
would be surprised if they take the door contacts.
As long as they don't cut of the wires too short to use re-installing a new
system would be a breeze.



I did a take over a while back.... A sub just bought a house with an ADT
system. The house was prewired during construction and the first owners
called ADT to install a system. All the wires were cut off short and
wireless devices installed. Ademco 5816 contacts on the doors with recessed
wired contacts already installed. Fire wire tucked up into the back boxes
and wireless smokes screwed in over them.

The only wires they used from the prewire were power, phone and ground. All
the others were cut short and stuffed back into the wall behind the panel.

Really made me wonder....

Post by Johnny

Post by Paul C
Total package for your equipment I can purchase for around £175

Got a link?
I searched on the net for some time, but could actually find any prices for
this particular system online.
I'm thinking of getting one and just handing it to the engineer that comes
round (an engineer actually turned up last friday without appointment, so I
just told him to get lost). Basically I'd prefer the system I've got in
because it's already installed (the wires are passed through the ceiling -
not an easy task to do myself!!).

[petem]

they want it? git it to them....

remove the stuff yourself but be carefull to leave all the wire in a good
state,

then buy yourself from some online alrme store all the parts that you need
and reinstall them

at least you paid for the installation fee and that part is not lost....

and at 500 pound for installation..its a big rip off

Post by Johnny
Hello all,
First of all, I am in the UK (England)...
About 3 years ago I bought an ADT Home alarm system, or at least I thought
I'd bought it...
It's a monitored alarm system that I've paid £24.95 per month for 2 and a
half years - I cancelled it for quite a few reasons - all can be summed up
as "ADT are incompetant"!!!
Now, 6 months after cancelling I get a phone call asking if they can come
round to remove the equipment (control panel & PIR sensors etc).
When I got the system, in no way at all was I told that it was 'rented' to
me.
The system cost £500, this is in a fairly standard sized home (5 PIRs, 2
door contacts, control panel, siren & 2 ADT boxes on the outside walls).
At £500 I'd have never in a million years thought that this could possibly
be the 'installation fee' alone. Fair enough, I am tied to the monitoring
for 3 years (which I've broken due to their own failures to provide a
service for another product I had with them), but this is what led me to
believe that I had actually bought the system - they make a small amount
from 'selling' and installing the equipment to me and then making a huge
takes the biscuit.
I have been to the local Citizens Advice, and contacted some Consumer
Helpline - both say that I should have read the small print on the contract.
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).
Thanks in advance.

[Peter Parry]

Post by Johnny
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?

The only grounds you have are for self flagellation for not reading
the contract.

Post by Johnny
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).

I'd guess £150 would be a nearer figure. Having not read the
contract before though now is a good time to dig it out and read what
it says. Pay particular attention to what it says about removal -
hopefully it talks about the system.

See what it says about making good any damage caused during removal.
You must insist that all the wiring and every sensor is removed and
any damage caused during any of this removal made good by ADT. If
they say they want only the panel say that that is not what the
contract (hopefully) says and removal means removal - every inch of
wire, every single nail, every sensor and the external alarm - and
restoration of the surfaces afterwards. You are not prepared to have
any part of the system whatsoever left in the house.

[Socrates]

Post by Johnny
(it's an Ademco

Accord XP C).

You would be doing yourself a favour in not buying it if you care to look at
the recorded results form the system.

In 99% of CCTV - even the suspect's mother would not be able to recognise
the suspect.

www.londoncctv.com
--
Yours faithfully,


John Aidiniantz

www.funbus.org
www.homepage-link.to/blaster

Post by Johnny

Post by Johnny
My question, do I have any grounds for mis-selling?

The only grounds you have are for self flagellation for not reading
the contract.

Post by Johnny
I have offered to purchase the system from ADT, they want a staggering
£1,000. I haven't been able to find the price of this system but seeing the
prices of others I'd reckon it's actual cost is around £350 (it's an Ademco
Accord XP C).

I'd guess £150 would be a nearer figure. Having not read the
contract before though now is a good time to dig it out and read what
it says. Pay particular attention to what it says about removal -
hopefully it talks about the system.
See what it says about making good any damage caused during removal.
You must insist that all the wiring and every sensor is removed and
any damage caused during any of this removal made good by ADT. If
they say they want only the panel say that that is not what the
contract (hopefully) says and removal means removal - every inch of
wire, every single nail, every sensor and the external alarm - and
restoration of the surfaces afterwards. You are not prepared to have
any part of the system whatsoever left in the house.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

[Johnny]

Post by Johnny

Post by Johnny
(it's an Ademco

Accord XP C).
You would be doing yourself a favour in not buying it if you care to look at
the recorded results form the system.
In 99% of CCTV - even the suspect's mother would not be able to recognise
the suspect.
www.londoncctv.com

It's an intruder alarm system (connected to the phone line).

[Cejay]

Seems you've been caught in the ADT trap if you can prove that when you
signed the contract that you were buying the equipment then you have a case
but ADT are renown ,and very good , at their sales pitch.
They probably said something like " We will install an ADT alarm system"
NOTE the ADT alarm . In other words its our alarm not yours we are just
going to fit it in your home.

On a lighter note however whilst they have the right to remove it ( if
contracted) you have the right to demand they do so without any damage to
your property and that they repair any damage caused by the removal.
I mean holes left by rawlplugs can cause a room to need redecorating. That
could be expensive.

Being UK based myself this posting is no surprise ADT being one of the
largest UK security companies can and DO get away with a lot.
As an installer we come across tales like this often but what ADT don't tell
you is that for around £100.00 you can have fitted to almost any alarm
system an autodialler which calls you or any of 4 people using your own
telephone line.
Granted it is not monitored but most of the ADT lines are not 24hr monitored
unless you pay the extra for a 'Redcare' type phone line.

No doubt this posting will generate the usual rash of dissection from both
sides of the pond but if it helps the poster in any way then I will feel
satisfied.