Discussion:
Leave vote brought a huge boost, sorry bust for the UK economy
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R. Mark Clayton
2019-11-08 13:10:03 UTC
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Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -

"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
Grikbassturde®™
2019-11-08 13:38:09 UTC
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On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:10:03 -0800 (PST), "R. Mark Clayton"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
Figures compiled by the bolshevik Trades Union Congress. Enough said.
Peeler
2019-11-08 14:36:24 UTC
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On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 05:38:09 -0800, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by Grikbassturde®™
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election,
figures reveal" https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-econo
my-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
Figures compiled by the bolshevik Trades Union Congress. Enough said.
"Bolshevik Trades Union Congress"??? LOL Psychosis in full bloom again,
psychopathic idiot? <BG>
--
"GB" about psychopathic gay anal Razovic:
"He has a pathological, compulsive need for attention, and he'll write any
drivel in order to provoke a reaction.
He has no other life than spending hours every day on Usenet, so I tend to
feel sorry for him and his miserable existence. It's obviously a shame that
he cannot find anything better to do with his time, but as he cannot, and
clearly needs the attention, we should put up with him with more or less
good humour. And thank God that we are not like him, poor sod!
Message-ID: <qq0pe8$m77$***@dont-email.me>
Norman Wells
2019-11-08 15:06:46 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"The Trades Union Congress (TUC), which compiled the figures".

Of course. Totally impartially, no dog in the fight, no axe to grind,
no agenda, no political point to make.

Angels as always.
Pamela
2019-11-08 18:55:48 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit
has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not
damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd
-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"The Trades Union Congress (TUC), which compiled the figures".
Of course. Totally impartially, no dog in the fight, no axe to grind,
no agenda, no political point to make.
Angels as always.
Disparagement does not prove the figures are incorrect.

And did you miss this bit in the article?

"Workers have paid the price for lacklustre growth, the TUC said. That
claim was supported by separate analysis from the Resolution
Foundation"
R. Mark Clayton
2019-11-09 11:20:25 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"The Trades Union Congress (TUC), which compiled the figures".
Of course. Totally impartially, no dog in the fight, no axe to grind,
no agenda, no political point to make.
Angels as always.
Funny how they come to the same conclusion as OECD, IMF, BoE, IoD, BCC, CBI, ECB, LSE, LSE, FSB etc. etc.
Norman Wells
2019-11-09 12:04:30 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"The Trades Union Congress (TUC), which compiled the figures".
Of course. Totally impartially, no dog in the fight, no axe to grind,
no agenda, no political point to make.
Angels as always.
Funny how they come to the same conclusion as OECD, IMF, BoE, IoD, BCC, CBI, ECB, LSE, LSE, FSB etc. etc.
They, and you, are suffering from a severe dose of single parametritis.
You've become growth queens, pure and simple.

An economy is far more complex than a single figure like 'growth' can
possibly reveal. But you just don't get it, do you?

You might have thought the TUC would be rather less interested in
macroeconomic data and rather more in things like employment and
unemployment rates. But they're not. Those figures are very good, you
see, and they don't therefore suit their narrative, do they?

But even on their own chosen battleground, UK growth is at an
historically perfectly respectable 1.3%. Hardly the recession those
opposed to leaving the EU were forecasting in their typically dire and
depressive way not so long ago.
pensive hamster
2019-11-12 14:02:02 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"The Trades Union Congress (TUC), which compiled the figures".
Of course. Totally impartially, no dog in the fight, no axe to grind,
no agenda, no political point to make.
Angels as always.
Funny how they come to the same conclusion as OECD, IMF, BoE, IoD, BCC, CBI, ECB, LSE, LSE, FSB etc. etc.
They, and you, are suffering from a severe dose of single parametritis.
You've become growth queens, pure and simple.
An economy is far more complex than a single figure like 'growth' can
possibly reveal. But you just don't get it, do you?
You might have thought the TUC would be rather less interested in
macroeconomic data and rather more in things like employment and
unemployment rates. But they're not. Those figures are very good, you
see, and they don't therefore suit their narrative, do they?
The benefits of the growth and employment figures are not equally
shared however, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

That is something the TUC are not very keen on.

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk

"... The median income [in the UK] has been rising by 2.2% on
average for the last five years. Most of this is accounted for by
the rise in average income for the richest fifth, which has
increased by 4.7%. The poorest fifth, on the other hand, have
seen a fall in income by 1.6%[1]."

[1] Average household income, UK: Financial year ending 2018.
Office for National Statistics, 26 February 2019
Post by Norman Wells
But even on their own chosen battleground, UK growth is at an
historically perfectly respectable 1.3%. Hardly the recession those
opposed to leaving the EU were forecasting in their typically dire and
depressive way not so long ago.
John
2019-11-08 15:09:09 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit
has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not
damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-
general-election-tuc-a9188136.html


That is because of the indecision by the government, causing uncertainty
of how to best plan for a leave.
R. Mark Clayton
2019-11-09 11:18:40 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit
has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not
damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-
general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
That is because of the indecision by the government, causing uncertainty
of how to best plan for a leave.
The best plan by a very large margin is not to leave.
Norman Wells
2019-11-09 12:59:26 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit
has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not
damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd-
general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
That is because of the indecision by the government, causing uncertainty
of how to best plan for a leave.
The best plan by a very large margin is not to leave.
You seem a little out of touch with those whom you seek to represent,
though, which doesn't bode well for your electoral prospects.

Wigan voted nearly 2 to 1 to leave the EU back in 2016, and the Brexit
Party alone secured a massive 41% of the vote in the recent EU elections.

In your position, I wouldn't bother going to the God-forsaken backwater
personally. If you have to, though, I hope you enjoy your futile quest
to get some of its poisonous denizens to vote for you.
The Marquis Saint Evremonde
2019-11-12 08:19:55 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Brestremists keep claiming that despite masses of evidence that Brexit
has not already harmed the UK economy and implausibly that it will not
damage it in future, but then along comes: -
"UK one of worst-performing economies in world since 2017 election, figures reveal"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-slowest-oecd
-general-election-tuc-a9188136.html
"FINANCIAL TIMES Tuesday August 20 2019
Germany likely to tip into recession, Bundesbank warns
Economy has gone from being the powerhouse of the region to one of its
laggards"

"FINANCIAL TIMES Monday August 12 2019
Job cuts at German investment banks near 30,000 as outlook deteriorates
Deutsche Bank accounts for more than half the total as trading desks are
hit hardest"

30 May 2019
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-exports-hit-a-record-high-acco
rding-to-new-official-data
"Data released 10th May 2019 by the Office of National Statistics (ONS)
shows the 2018/19 financial year was a record-breaking year for UK
exports, as they reached £639.9 billion. Total exports grew at a rate
of 3.0% and increased by £18.5 billion compared to the 2017/18
financial year. ...
Separate data published by the Organisation for Economic Co- operation
(OECD) showed between 2016 and 2018, UK total exports grew at 13.8%,
faster than Germany (10.5%), France (10.1%) and Italy (11.4%). The OECD
data also showed UK export growth was faster than the overall rate for
the European Union (11.9%).
... Not only are UK exports booming, but foreign direct investment (FDI)
into the UK is also at a record high. Data released by the OECD last
week showed UK inwards investment stock in 2018 increased by 5% to
£1,400 billion. The figures confirm the UK as the leading destination
for FDI in Europe, and the third most significant in the world."

FT 16 April 2018 "... The latest nowcast results for the eurozone
suggest that activity growth has dropped to only 1.2 per cent in early
April, with each of the major economies experiencing a sharp decline in
growth. Even Germany, which was relatively immune from previous European
downturns has recorded a very sharp dip, with growth now down to only
around 1 per cent. ... This slowdown has come as a definite surprise to
the ECB forecasters, who expected the growth rate to slow only slightly
in the course of 2018."

"18 June 2017 - UK export growth has outperformed both Germany
and France for five consecutive quarters, according to the latest
European Export Index by accountants and business advisers BDO
LLP. The Index – which tracks the export performance of the five
largest European economies and the European Union on a quarterly
basis – reveals that total UK exports are growing at a faster rate than
exports in both Germany and France."
https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/news/2017/uk-export-growth-outperforms-german
y-and-france
--
Evremonde
pensive hamster
2019-11-12 13:49:15 UTC
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On Tuesday, 12 November 2019 08:22:11 UTC, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
[...]
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
... Not only are UK exports booming, but foreign direct investment (FDI)
into the UK is also at a record high. Data released by the OECD last
week showed UK inwards investment stock in 2018 increased by 5% to
£1,400 billion. The figures confirm the UK as the leading destination
for FDI in Europe, and the third most significant in the world."
Is foreign direct investment (FDI) being at a record high necessarily
a good thing though? Doesn't it mean that more and more British
businesses are now foreign owned and controlled. Doesn't it mean
that selling off the family silver is now at a record high?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_direct_investment

"A foreign direct investment (FDI) is an investment in the form of a
controlling ownership in a business in one country by an entity
based in another country.[1] It is thus distinguished from a foreign
portfolio investment by a notion of direct control."
The Marquis Saint Evremonde
2019-11-12 15:45:50 UTC
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Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
... Not only are UK exports booming, but foreign direct investment (FDI)
into the UK is also at a record high. Data released by the OECD last
week showed UK inwards investment stock in 2018 increased by 5% to
£1,400 billion. The figures confirm the UK as the leading destination
for FDI in Europe, and the third most significant in the world."
Is foreign direct investment (FDI) being at a record high necessarily
a good thing though?
I don't know. What I do know is this: If I had posted figures showing
that FDI had *fallen*, you and MM and Clayton would have been all over
them shouting "FDI has fallen! Fallen! We're doomed! Doomed! And it's
all because of Brexit!"
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean that more and more British
businesses are now foreign owned and controlled.
And probably more and more foreign businesses are British controlled.
That's free movement of capital, and it's one of the fundamental pillars
of your precious EU, which you now seem to be arguing against.
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean
that selling off the family silver is now at a record high?
As I never owned the family silver, it makes no difference to me who
does.
--
Evremonde
pensive hamster
2019-11-12 16:19:22 UTC
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pensive hamster posted
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
... Not only are UK exports booming, but foreign direct investment (FDI)
into the UK is also at a record high. Data released by the OECD last
week showed UK inwards investment stock in 2018 increased by 5% to
£1,400 billion. The figures confirm the UK as the leading destination
for FDI in Europe, and the third most significant in the world."
Is foreign direct investment (FDI) being at a record high necessarily
a good thing though?
I don't know. What I do know is this: If I had posted figures showing
that FDI had *fallen*, you and MM and Clayton would have been all over
them shouting "FDI has fallen! Fallen! We're doomed! Doomed! And it's
all because of Brexit!"
You are wrong. I for one would not have been shouting or saying
any such thing.
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean that more and more British
businesses are now foreign owned and controlled.
And probably more and more foreign businesses are British controlled.
Probably? You have some figures?
That's free movement of capital, and it's one of the fundamental pillars
of your precious EU, which you now seem to be arguing against.
You are wrong again. I am not arguing any such thing, merely asking
if foreign direct investment (FDI) being at a record high is necessarily
a good thing. You say you don't know.
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean
that selling off the family silver is now at a record high?
As I never owned the family silver, it makes no difference to me who
does.
It's a metaphor.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan

"The sale of assets is common with individuals and states when they
run into financial difficulties. First, all the Georgian silver goes, and
then all that nice furniture that used to be in the saloon. Then the
Canalettos go."

Speech to the Tory Reform Group (8 November 1985), quoted in
"Stockton attacks Thatcher policies", The Times (9 November 1985), p. 1
Often quoted as "selling off the family silver".

So far you have scored a don't know, two wrong interpretations, a
probably, and a misunderstood metaphor.

Not that impressive a performance.
R. Mark Clayton
2019-11-12 18:06:25 UTC
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Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
... Not only are UK exports booming,
booming is overstating it, the sick pound has made UK goods cheaper to buy abroad.
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
Post by pensive hamster
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
but foreign direct investment (FDI)
into the UK is also at a record high. Data released by the OECD last
week showed UK inwards investment stock in 2018 increased by 5% to
£1,400 billion. The figures confirm the UK as the leading destination
for FDI in Europe, and the third most significant in the world."
Is foreign direct investment (FDI) being at a record high necessarily
a good thing though?
Well if you don't mind UK companies being foreign owned - the investment has been the buying up of UK enterprise with cheap pounds NOT new plant, factories or equipment etc.
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
I don't know. What I do know is this: If I had posted figures showing
that FDI had *fallen*, you and MM and Clayton would have been all over
them shouting "FDI has fallen! Fallen! We're doomed! Doomed! And it's
all because of Brexit!"
Investment has fallen since the Leave vote and it has already hurt the UK economy and will get worse if we do Leave.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/16/britain-facing-most-prolonged-investment-slump-in-17-years

and whilst the service sector has grown ever so slightly (mainly increased tourism due to the slump in the pound)
https://www.cityam.com/uk-manufacturing-in-agony-as-sector-heads-for-recession/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-uk-private-sector-contraction-service-sector-pmi-car-industry-a9185776.html
Post by The Marquis Saint Evremonde
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean that more and more British
businesses are now foreign owned and controlled.
And probably more and more foreign businesses are British controlled.
That's free movement of capital, and it's one of the fundamental pillars
of your precious EU, which you now seem to be arguing against.
Post by pensive hamster
Doesn't it mean
that selling off the family silver is now at a record high?
As I never owned the family silver, it makes no difference to me who
does.
--
Evremonde
Yes everything in the UK garden is rosy: -

https://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/business-confidence-falls-to-lowest-level-since-2012/
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