Discussion:
How moderate are "moderate" Muslims?
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BurfordTJustice
2018-12-03 11:23:47 UTC
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The Koran does not allow.



"Byker" <***@do~rag.net> wrote in message news:AOudnWg7Csee_JnBnZ2dnUU7-***@supernews.com...
: It takes one to know one:

:
: The myth of moderate Islam:

:
: "Moderate" Muslims more or less shrug their shoulders at the antics of the
: so-called "extremists." The ultimate goal of is global Islam - that is,
: submission to the Muslim god. Moderates are just the ones who smile at you
: in the hall way and won't kill you on sight but and hope one of their
Jihadi
: brethren will. There is no "moderate" in an ideology of supremacy by way
of
: conquest and submission.
:
: Militant Muslims in the foreground, moderate Muslims in the background:
:
: http://tinyurl.com/jh2sbtt
:
: A "moderate" Muslim? No such animal!
:
: https://tinyurl.com/y9tecbgw
:
: http://formermuslimsunited.org/exposing-the-myth-of-moderate-islam/
:
: https://int.icej.org/news/headlines/dr-m-no-such-thing-moderate-muslim
:
Byker
2018-12-04 03:48:44 UTC
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Post by BurfordTJustice
The Koran does not allow.
Why Islamic countries can't be like the West

-- Anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias of modern fundamentalist
Islam. Clearly it's not the case that Islam itself is hostile to science;
after all, for hundreds of years, the Islamic world was the standard-bearer
for world scientific knowledge and progress. Yet, education in many Muslim
countries consists primarily of religious rather than scientific programs,
and those who do get quality educations in the west tend to remain overseas.

-- Women as second-class citizens. It's not just that women can't contribute
directly to the workforce (although that's a big factor), but that women
aren't educated to the same standard, and thus aren't able to raise children
to be scientists and engineers as effectively. This is one area where great
progress has been made, but there's a generational lag.

-- Geopolitical instability. In general, lack of stability doesn't lead
people to make long-term investments in the future. If you're worried the
world is going to end, you're going to enjoy life now (to the extent
possible), not sacrifice a lot to potentially have a better future. A high
level of fatalism and lack of feeling of agency has never helped
entrepreneurship.

-- Antiquated legal environment (largely based on old UK law without update,
merged with Sharia), and not really compatible with modern business. Setting
up a business takes a long time, requires local partners, etc. - not a free
market. There are efforts to have different law for some countries (the
Dubai free trade zones are great examples -- Jebel Ali in the 70s was
probably the first major development of its kind), but the law outside
business still needs revision.

-- Corruption. It's a combination of an inefficient official process and a
small number of wealthy and powerful families, able to either change the law
as needed, or ignore it. If you ever get into a dispute with a local
national, you're going to lose. If local nationals of different levels of
power get into a dispute, it's usually decided on the basis of connections,
vs. the merits of the case.

-- High cost of failure. If someone launches a new business and it fails,
there's a high degree of shame and loss of social standing, but even worse,
potential prison time for any debts personally guaranteed. Compare this to
Silicon Valley where an entrepreneur with a few failed businesses is
generally viewed as "experienced".

Is it the people that are different, or the systems of government? Must be
their culture, which they try impose on anyone foolish enough to let them
in:

http://markhumphrys.com/islamic.world.html

http://tribune.com.pk/story/290809/why-muslim-states-fail

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JL16Ak02.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/28/afghanistan.religion

http://www.khilafah.com/why-has-the-muslim-world-failed-to-develop/

http://www.meforum.org/306/why-does-the-muslim-world-lag-in-science

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/worldpolitics/why-muslim-world-decline

https://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Ohmyrus/islam_failed_muslims.htm

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/01/deep-down-muslims-feel-that-they-have-failed/

http://orientalreview.org/2011/06/04/failure-of-the-nation-states-in-islamic-world/

http://islamicsystem.blogspot.com/2010/01/why-has-muslim-world-failed-to-develop.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/139155/islams-universal-economic-failure-daniel-greenfield

http://www.quora.com/Why-has-the-Muslim-world-failed-to-produce-enough-successful-scientists

A couple additional thoughts.

The Islamic countries have not had a Reformation, which among
other changes, let secular work also be viewed as a glory to God.

Also, they have been stuck with AD 600 definitions of usury,
which has greatly limited modern banking, and the great growth
that has allowed.

Some decent reads on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation#Protestant_ethic
Rod Speed
2018-12-04 04:18:21 UTC
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Post by Byker
Post by BurfordTJustice
The Koran does not allow.
Why Islamic countries can't be like the West
-- Anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias of modern fundamentalist
Islam. Clearly it's not the case that Islam itself is hostile to science;
after all, for hundreds of years, the Islamic world was the
standard-bearer
for world scientific knowledge and progress. Yet, education in many Muslim
countries consists primarily of religious rather than scientific programs,
and those who do get quality educations in the west tend to remain overseas.
-- Women as second-class citizens. It's not just that women can't contribute
directly to the workforce (although that's a big factor), but that women
aren't educated to the same standard, and thus aren't able to raise children
to be scientists and engineers as effectively. This is one area where great
progress has been made, but there's a generational lag.
-- Geopolitical instability. In general, lack of stability doesn't lead
people to make long-term investments in the future. If you're worried the
world is going to end, you're going to enjoy life now (to the extent
possible), not sacrifice a lot to potentially have a better future.
That's radically overstated. It isnt what happened in
the west during the cold war when many believed
that it would end soon in nuclear armaghhedon.
Post by Byker
A high level of fatalism and lack of feeling of agency has never helped
entrepreneurship.
And yet we saw lots of that in the USA anyway.
Post by Byker
-- Antiquated legal environment (largely based on old UK law without
update, merged with Sharia), and not really compatible with modern
business. Setting up a business takes a long time, requires local
partners, etc. - not a free market. There are efforts to have different
law for some countries (the Dubai free trade zones are great examples --
Jebel Ali in the 70s was probably the first major development of its
kind), but the law outside business still needs revision.
-- Corruption. It's a combination of an inefficient official process and a
small number of wealthy and powerful families, able to either change the
law as needed, or ignore it. If you ever get into a dispute with a local
national, you're going to lose. If local nationals of different levels of
power get into a dispute, it's usually decided on the basis of
connections, vs. the merits of the case.
And yet China works fine with that anyway.
Post by Byker
-- High cost of failure. If someone launches a new business and it fails,
there's a high degree of shame and loss of social standing, but even
worse, potential prison time for any debts personally guaranteed. Compare
this to Silicon Valley where an entrepreneur with a few failed businesses
is generally viewed as "experienced".
Is it the people that are different, or the systems of government?
Or both in the sense that the culture produces the govt.
Post by Byker
Must be their culture, which they try impose on anyone foolish enough to
Plenty of them don't.
Post by Byker
http://markhumphrys.com/islamic.world.html
http://tribune.com.pk/story/290809/why-muslim-states-fail
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JL16Ak02.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/28/afghanistan.religion
http://www.khilafah.com/why-has-the-muslim-world-failed-to-develop/
http://www.meforum.org/306/why-does-the-muslim-world-lag-in-science
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/worldpolitics/why-muslim-world-decline
https://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Ohmyrus/islam_failed_muslims.htm
http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/01/deep-down-muslims-feel-that-they-have-failed/
http://orientalreview.org/2011/06/04/failure-of-the-nation-states-in-islamic-world/
http://islamicsystem.blogspot.com/2010/01/why-has-muslim-world-failed-to-develop.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/139155/islams-universal-economic-failure-daniel-greenfield
http://www.quora.com/Why-has-the-Muslim-world-failed-to-produce-enough-successful-scientists
A couple additional thoughts.
Too radical by far.
Post by Byker
The Islamic countries have not had a Reformation, which among
other changes, let secular work also be viewed as a glory to God.
There is no god, just an endless variety of
crutches for pathetically inadequate 'minds'
Post by Byker
Also, they have been stuck with AD 600 definitions of usury, which has
greatly limited modern banking, and the great growth that has allowed.
True.
Post by Byker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation#Protestant_ethic
The Peeler
2018-12-04 10:16:24 UTC
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On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 15:18:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Byker
-- Geopolitical instability. In general, lack of stability doesn't lead
people to make long-term investments in the future. If you're worried the
world is going to end, you're going to enjoy life now (to the extent
possible), not sacrifice a lot to potentially have a better future.
That's radically overstated.
You disagree? What a suprise, senile auto-contradictor! LOL
--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <***@85.214.115.223>
Shitsack Moishe Goldberg
2018-12-04 17:17:11 UTC
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Post by Byker
Post by BurfordTJustice
The Koran does not allow.
Why Islamic countries can't be like the West
You mean why can't Middle Eastern shitholes be like the West?

Because they're full of primitive barbaric semitic ragheads who spend
their time going around circumcising each other.
The Peeler
2018-12-04 19:39:25 UTC
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On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:17:11 -0800, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
Post by Shitsack Moishe Goldberg
Post by Byker
Why Islamic countries can't be like the West
You mean why can't Middle Eastern shitholes be like the West?
Because they're full of primitive barbaric semitic ragheads who spend
their time going around circumcising each other.
Obviously not as primitive as you murdering genociding serbs ...which is the
reason why you idiots can't make it in the EU!
--
Retarded, anal, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident
psychopath, dumb serbian bitch G. Razovic (aka "The Rectum").
Sick old nazoid pedo Andrew "Andrzej" Baron (aka "Shitsack Moishe Goldberg")
2018-12-04 19:43:39 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>,
A shiteating cowardly nazoid sub-louse PEDO named Andrew "Andrzej"
Post by Shitsack Moishe Goldberg
Because they're full of primitive barbaric semitic ragheads who spend
their time going around circumcising each other.
And still, you suck them off.

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