Discussion:
Is UK a secular nation ?
(too old to reply)
Rick
2018-08-10 08:42:07 UTC
Permalink
I dont think so.

How can you be secular if you have MP s representing religions in an
parliment.?

If MP s are chosen by the religion they are can that nation be a secular
nation ?

Granted that the religions are under the protection of secular governments,
granted that there is a freedom for the the citizen to choose which
religion to choose.

These do not mean you can choose your MP because they are of one
particyular religion,

BUT MUSLIMS of BRITAIN vote for Muslim MP s only

Muslim religion does not recognise secularity. But conservatives abuse
this fact.

Stop hiding your head in sand and accept this reality.

Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a muslim
person to represent her in the parliment.

First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .



Conservative Muslim Forum founder Lord Sheikh told BBC Newsnight he received
"vile" Islamophobic messages after calling for Mr Johnson to be sacked.

I d say Lord Sheikh or Lord Khalifa or whatever way he got his Lordship shut
up and accept the fact that Muslim Religion is the most divisive and
primitive religion in the world. As for his face ..I think he needs a Burkha
..lol ..

Islam is the only religion which did not renew itself. It is the only
religion that itself divisive in 40 different meaningless way. it is the
only religion that indiscriminate wild murderers uses in the 21st century.

"" Saudi-led air strike kills 29 children in Yemen
At least 29 children have been killed and 30 wounded in a Saudi-led
coalition air strike in Yemen, the International Committee of the Red Cross
says. ""

And ask yourselves who sells these bombs and planes to Saudis...
and why British supports Burkha which is the preferred dressing of human
bombs .

Stay away from Burkha wearing likely terrorists....
Fredxx
2018-08-10 10:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
I dont think so.
How can you be secular if you have MP s representing religions in an
parliment.?
If MP s are chosen by the religion they are can that nation be a secular
nation ?
Granted that the religions are under the protection of secular governments,
granted that there is a freedom for the the citizen to choose which
religion to choose.
These do not mean you can choose your MP because they are of one
particyular religion,
BUT MUSLIMS of BRITAIN vote for Muslim MP s only
Muslim religion does not recognise secularity. But conservatives abuse
this fact.
Stop hiding your head in sand and accept this reality.
Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a muslim
person to represent her in the parliment.
First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .
I think we should do the same as France, where the state does not fund
faith schools.

It would also have a most desirable effect in Northern Ireland.
Rick
2018-08-10 11:32:53 UTC
Permalink
!>
!> I dont think so.
!> Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a muslim
!> person to represent her in the parliment.
!>
!> First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .
!
!I think we should do the same as France, where the state does not fund
!faith schools.
!
!It would also have a most desirable effect in Northern Ireland.
Absolutely . I agree to that. But that may not even be enough

There is a lot need to be done in this area. Schools in UK , sponsored by
Qatar and or Saudis , should follow a cirriculum approved by the Ministry of
Education .

Cirriculum of Primary education cannot be delegated to outside sources.

Also on state schools abolish morning assemblies and praying practices.
hours as they are geared to teach Christanity . This in turn aggrevates
muslim families and they distant themselves to provide alternative
religious education outside the school .

It is unfortunate that the religion of Islam not suitable for a democratic
society. It is false that a contry calls itself Islamic Democratic Republic
of ..etc .. Sharia law is derived from the Quaran and that cannot be
democratic and secular.

Islam needs to modernise itself .until then we must protect our society to
be free of teachings of Islam.
Fredxx
2018-08-10 15:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
!>
!> I dont think so.
!> Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a muslim
!> person to represent her in the parliment.
!>
!> First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .
!
!I think we should do the same as France, where the state does not fund
!faith schools.
!
!It would also have a most desirable effect in Northern Ireland.
Absolutely . I agree to that. But that may not even be enough
There is a lot need to be done in this area. Schools in UK , sponsored by
Qatar and or Saudis , should follow a cirriculum approved by the Ministry of
Education .
Cirriculum of Primary education cannot be delegated to outside sources.
Also on state schools abolish morning assemblies and praying practices.
hours as they are geared to teach Christanity . This in turn aggrevates
muslim families and they distant themselves to provide alternative
religious education outside the school .
It is unfortunate that the religion of Islam not suitable for a democratic
society. It is false that a contry calls itself Islamic Democratic Republic
of ..etc .. Sharia law is derived from the Quaran and that cannot be
democratic and secular.
Why can't it be democratic? You have a form of democracy in Israel, and
many laws are based on the Jewish faith?
Post by Rick
Islam needs to modernise itself .until then we must protect our society to
be free of teachings of Islam.
Shouldn't Judaism be put in the same category? Or do you think it is
right that pedestrian crossings should not be manually operated by the
same people who are happy to press buttons to change TV station?
Rick
2018-08-11 11:27:14 UTC
Permalink
!>
!>> !>
!
!> It is unfortunate that the religion of Islam not suitable for a democratic
!> society. It is false that a contry calls itself Islamic Democratic Republic
!> of ..etc .. Sharia law is derived from the Quaran and that cannot be
!> democratic and secular.
!
!Why can't it be democratic? You have a form of democracy in Israel, and
!many laws are based on the Jewish faith?
The same could also be say for Christianity . However apart from Islam all
religions are accepted as religions,

Islam is, as we all know , not only a religion but it is a way of living.
Quaran does not recognise the existence of different states or kingdoms but
describe the people as followers ( ummet - altough the word meaning in
arabic all children from the same mother ) . hence it cant be secular.

Islam differentiates among it is followers in a discriminate way. Women are
second class followers as to say. Practically no say on the way of living.
Therefore cant be democratic.

( Examples of it : women cant choose their husbands or divorce them . On
inheritance to children girls are ignored or get fraction of wealth as
compared to boys.)

Today's islam are of many different sects and many teachings are based on
various Imam's teachings or books written on hearsay of the prophet ( Hadis
) So even the way of living is described or interpreted many different ways
by different Imams.

The Quaran advises the women to " cover their jewels " . The fact that 95
per cent of muslims do not understand the language of Quaran. Then so called
scholars interpretes them different ways.

To me women's jewels are the parts of the body different than men's.
But to another it may mean hair , eyes, face or legs ... So who decides ?

Crime and punishment : Surely cant be burrying the women and stoning them
to death , because they did not want to leave with their husbands anymore (
It is still used in Saudi Arabia and parts of Qatar and lately even in
Turkey )
!> Islam needs to modernise itself .until then we must protect our society to
!> be free of teachings of Islam.
!
!Shouldn't Judaism be put in the same category? Or do you think it is
!right that pedestrian crossings should not be manually operated by the
!same people who are happy to press buttons to change TV station?
Here we change the subject to necessity of religion or which religion is
what. I am not a theologists. My opinions are derived from my own
observations and learnings obtained from living among various cultures.

If religions are ( a tool or ) part of the education of a community , then
it needs to be brought in line with the conditions and the technology of
the times we are living. We now need laws to control the Internet. We will
soon need laws to control the space exploration !

My opinion is such that religions are still necessary to put order to the
whole of a society but they need to be dynamic. Even the understanding of
athesim needs to evolve with the new discoveries.
Fredxx
2018-08-12 00:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
!>
!>> !>
!
!> It is unfortunate that the religion of Islam not suitable for a democratic
!> society. It is false that a contry calls itself Islamic Democratic Republic
!> of ..etc .. Sharia law is derived from the Quaran and that cannot be
!> democratic and secular.
!
!Why can't it be democratic? You have a form of democracy in Israel, and
!many laws are based on the Jewish faith?
The same could also be say for Christianity . However apart from Islam all
religions are accepted as religions,
Islam is, as we all know , not only a religion but it is a way of living.
Quaran does not recognise the existence of different states or kingdoms but
describe the people as followers ( ummet - altough the word meaning in
arabic all children from the same mother ) . hence it cant be secular.
Islam differentiates among it is followers in a discriminate way. Women are
second class followers as to say. Practically no say on the way of living.
Therefore cant be democratic.
( Examples of it : women cant choose their husbands or divorce them . On
inheritance to children girls are ignored or get fraction of wealth as
compared to boys.)
Today's islam are of many different sects and many teachings are based on
various Imam's teachings or books written on hearsay of the prophet ( Hadis
) So even the way of living is described or interpreted many different ways
by different Imams.
The Quaran advises the women to " cover their jewels " . The fact that 95
per cent of muslims do not understand the language of Quaran. Then so called
scholars interpretes them different ways.
To me women's jewels are the parts of the body different than men's.
But to another it may mean hair , eyes, face or legs ... So who decides ?
Crime and punishment : Surely cant be burrying the women and stoning them
to death , because they did not want to leave with their husbands anymore (
It is still used in Saudi Arabia and parts of Qatar and lately even in
Turkey )
Why concentrating on Islam? It is no less barbaric than countries that
impose death penalties, including countries in the 'West'.

We still pump hormones into criminalised men so they grow breasts.

Islam takes a view where men are weak and easily tempted and should not
be so enticed. Look how many sex offenders there are in the West:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/number-of-registered-sex-offenders-jumps-by-80-in-ten-years-6vlrc2dfh

Perhaps they have a point?
Post by Rick
!> Islam needs to modernise itself .until then we must protect our society to
!> be free of teachings of Islam.
!
!Shouldn't Judaism be put in the same category? Or do you think it is
!right that pedestrian crossings should not be manually operated by the
!same people who are happy to press buttons to change TV station?
Here we change the subject to necessity of religion or which religion is
what. I am not a theologists. My opinions are derived from my own
observations and learnings obtained from living among various cultures.
If religions are ( a tool or ) part of the education of a community , then
it needs to be brought in line with the conditions and the technology of
the times we are living. We now need laws to control the Internet. We will
soon need laws to control the space exploration !
My opinion is such that religions are still necessary to put order to the
whole of a society but they need to be dynamic. Even the understanding of
athesim needs to evolve with the new discoveries.
Your opinion is wrong. More wars and subsequent deaths are caused by
religion.

The only purpose of religion is to expand its numbers. That is working
well for Islam. One article:

http://www.pewforum.org/2017/04/05/the-changing-global-religious-landscape/
there are others that say essentially the same thing.
Rick
2018-08-14 09:19:22 UTC
Permalink
!> If religions are ( a tool or ) part of the education of a community , then
!> it needs to be brought in line with the conditions and the technology of
!> the times we are living. We now need laws to control the Internet. We will
!> soon need laws to control the space exploration !
!>
!> My opinion is such that religions are still necessary to put order to the
!> whole of a society but they need to be dynamic. Even the understanding of
!> athesim needs to evolve with the new discoveries.
!
!Your opinion is wrong. More wars and subsequent deaths are caused by
!religion.
OIL OIL OIL OIL

These days almost every war
!
!The only purpose of religion is to expand its numbers.
No. It is the way to control masses. Teach them to be content with what
they got in this world.
That is working
!http://www.pewforum.org/2017/04/05/the-changing-global-religious-landscape/
!there are others that say essentially the same thing.
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-10 11:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Soon the UK will be run by only muslims adapt or die.



"Rick" <***@false.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
:
: I dont think so.
:
: How can you be secular if you have MP s representing religions in an
: parliment.?
:
: If MP s are chosen by the religion they are can that nation be a secular
: nation ?
:
: Granted that the religions are under the protection of secular
governments,
: granted that there is a freedom for the the citizen to choose which
: religion to choose.
:
: These do not mean you can choose your MP because they are of one
: particyular religion,
:
: BUT MUSLIMS of BRITAIN vote for Muslim MP s only
:
: Muslim religion does not recognise secularity. But conservatives abuse
: this fact.
:
: Stop hiding your head in sand and accept this reality.
:
: Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a
muslim
: person to represent her in the parliment.
:
: First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .
:
:
:
: Conservative Muslim Forum founder Lord Sheikh told BBC Newsnight he
received
: "vile" Islamophobic messages after calling for Mr Johnson to be sacked.
:
: I d say Lord Sheikh or Lord Khalifa or whatever way he got his Lordship
shut
: up and accept the fact that Muslim Religion is the most divisive and
: primitive religion in the world. As for his face ..I think he needs a
Burkha
: ..lol ..
:
: Islam is the only religion which did not renew itself. It is the only
: religion that itself divisive in 40 different meaningless way. it is the
: only religion that indiscriminate wild murderers uses in the 21st
century.
:
: "" Saudi-led air strike kills 29 children in Yemen
: At least 29 children have been killed and 30 wounded in a Saudi-led
: coalition air strike in Yemen, the International Committee of the Red
Cross
: says. ""
:
: And ask yourselves who sells these bombs and planes to Saudis...
: and why British supports Burkha which is the preferred dressing of human
: bombs .
:
: Stay away from Burkha wearing likely terrorists....
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-11 09:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
I dont think so.
The UK is legally Xtian.

In the 2011 census the UK was 59% professed Xtian and a quarter stated no religion, however this is falling and I would think less than half now. OTOH adherents of other religions mean the UK is not yet majority secular.
Post by Rick
How can you be secular if you have MP s representing religions in an
parliment.?
The US and France are secular, but legislators can be any religion.

OTOH unelected 24 CofE Bishops in the Lords is an affront to democracy and non Xtians.
Post by Rick
If MP s are chosen by the religion they are can that nation be a secular
nation ?
Granted that the religions are under the protection of secular governments,
granted that there is a freedom for the the citizen to choose which
religion to choose.
These do not mean you can choose your MP because they are of one
particyular religion,
BUT MUSLIMS of BRITAIN vote for Muslim MP s only
Rubbish - the electors of Gorton, of whom many are Muslim, and very few Jewish routinely elected Sir Gerald Kaufman - a leading Jew - for decades
Post by Rick
Muslim religion does not recognise secularity. But conservatives abuse
this fact.
Stop hiding your head in sand and accept this reality.
Look and hear what a young girl from Bradford saying that she wants a muslim
person to represent her in the parliment.
Funnily enough people vote for representatives like themselves - women are more likely to vote for women for instance. OTOH I have twice voted for a Muslim woman to represent me in Parliament.

Of course if this becomes the sole determinant politics becomes poisoned by religion as in Northern Ireland.
Post by Rick
First educate them secularity , freedom and democracy in the schools .
Conservative Muslim Forum founder Lord Sheikh told BBC Newsnight he received
"vile" Islamophobic messages after calling for Mr Johnson to be sacked.
Well that' his privilege. Since Boris is no longer a minister it little of my business.

SNIP - load of Islamophobic nonsense.
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