Discussion:
Dominic Grieve Writes
(too old to reply)
The Todal
2019-09-08 11:26:01 UTC
Permalink
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy

The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Pamela
2019-09-08 12:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-
resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal
for Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of
the EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Not forgetting the LibDems whose manifesto said

"Protect Britain's Place in Europe and fight a hard Brexit".
Keema's Nan
2019-09-08 12:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resis
t-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
I see so, when it suits them, MPs are suddenly honouring manifesto pledges?

That is a very dangerous game to play with an election looming.
Incubus
2019-09-09 10:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.

Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Dan S. MacAbre
2019-09-09 10:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
and then to reject any deal that is offered. How this looks to us
proles is probably not something that worries them greatly.
Post by Incubus
Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Keema's Nan
2019-09-09 10:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-re
sist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the
default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
Is that possible when A50 states that leaving with no deal is the default
option?

We have signed up to EU laws and directives, and A50 is one of those. They
can huff and bluster (as the self serving HoC attention seekers do) all they
want, but they cannot rewrite EU rules to suit themselves, and/or make them
legally binding.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
and then to reject any deal that is offered. How this looks to us
proles is probably not something that worries them greatly.
Post by Incubus
Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good
Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Dan S. MacAbre
2019-09-09 11:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-re
sist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the
default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
Is that possible when A50 states that leaving with no deal is the default
option?
ATM, since we didn't leave on those terms in March, it seems they can do
whatever they want.
Post by Keema's Nan
We have signed up to EU laws and directives, and A50 is one of those. They
can huff and bluster (as the self serving HoC attention seekers do) all they
want, but they cannot rewrite EU rules to suit themselves, and/or make them
legally binding.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
and then to reject any deal that is offered. How this looks to us
proles is probably not something that worries them greatly.
Post by Incubus
Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good
Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Incubus
2019-09-09 11:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-re
sist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the
default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
Is that possible when A50 states that leaving with no deal is the default
option?
We have signed up to EU laws and directives, and A50 is one of those. They
can huff and bluster (as the self serving HoC attention seekers do) all they
want, but they cannot rewrite EU rules to suit themselves, and/or make them
legally binding.
At the moment, the main objective is to oppose Boris. I believe they would
make it illegal to leave without a deal if they felt they could get away with
it. Their hopes seem pinned on having a second referendum, which I believe
would be manipulated by an Electoral Commission chock full of Remainers.
Pamela
2019-09-10 13:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-
du
Post by Incubus
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
ty-to-re sist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no
such thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either
promised “a smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative
manifesto); or promised to block no deal (Labour manifesto); or
promised “to get the best deal for Northern Ireland, recognising
that we share a land frontier with the Republic” (the DUP); or
supported the UK’s continued membership of the EU. Any MP who
facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up their
manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal
exit is utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has
to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret
that the people who object to leaving without a deal are all
Remainers. In their reluctance to do what is necessary, they are
absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
Is that possible when A50 states that leaving with no deal is the
default option?
We have signed up to EU laws and directives, and A50 is one of those.
They can huff and bluster (as the self serving HoC attention seekers
do) all they want, but they cannot rewrite EU rules to suit themselves,
and/or make them legally binding.
At the moment, the main objective is to oppose Boris. I believe they
would make it illegal to leave without a deal if they felt they could
get away with it. Their hopes seem pinned on having a second
referendum, which I believe would be manipulated by an Electoral
Commission chock full of Remainers.
As I understand it, Boris will soon be purging the Electoral Commission of
deviant thinkers and replacing them with right thinking No Deal
Brexiteers. Such a balanced compostion will then provide the desired
democratically pre-determined outcome to reflect the true wishes of the
people. All hail, Emporer Boris. :)

Pamela
2019-09-09 21:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-
dut
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
y-to-re sist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no
such thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either
promised “a smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative
manifesto); or promised to block no deal (Labour manifesto); or
promised “to get the best deal for Northern Ireland, recognising
that we share a land frontier with the Republic” (the DUP); or
supported the UK’s continued membership of the EU. Any MP who
facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up their
manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit
is utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be
the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret
that the people who object to leaving without a deal are all
Remainers. In their reluctance to do what is necessary, they are
absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
Is that possible when A50 states that leaving with no deal is the
default option?
We have signed up to EU laws and directives, and A50 is one of those.
They can huff and bluster (as the self serving HoC attention seekers do)
all they want, but they cannot rewrite EU rules to suit themselves,
and/or make them legally binding.
Don't underestimate Boris's proven ability to turn any victory into a
defeat.
Incubus
2019-09-09 11:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
and then to reject any deal that is offered. How this looks to us
proles is probably not something that worries them greatly.
They don't have the confidence to make a final play just yet. At the moment,
they are buying time. If it comes, you can depend upon it being someone else's
fault...
Yellow
2019-09-09 16:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-resist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised ?a
smooth, orderly Brexit? (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised ?to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic? (the DUP); or supported the UK?s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
I'm assumimg their plan is to make it illegal to leave without a deal,
and then to reject any deal that is offered. How this looks to us
proles is probably not something that worries them greatly.
You have to "laugh" at Labour's latest wheeze, which after years of
saying they could get a better deal for the UK, is going to be just
resurrecting Mrs May's deal, which of course Labour has already rejected
3 times as they said it is not good enough and did not pass their 6
tests (if you remember those).

They then say they would put it to a referendum - Mrs May's deal vs
Remain - and that Labour would campaign for Remain.

It is like they don't think we are paying attention or as you say,
perhaps they just don't care.
Keema's Nan
2019-09-09 11:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-res
ist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Alternatively, they could offer the province to Donald Trump for (say) £39
billion - and he could do what he liked with it.

We would have enough cash to pay the EU their exorbitant demand.
Incubus
2019-09-09 12:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/07/parliament-duty-to-res
ist-boris-johnson-dangerous-no-deal-brexit-strategy
The Commons has been accused of denying the will of the people and
somehow acting unconstitutionally in doing this. We have done no such
thing. All of us were elected on manifestos that either promised “a
smooth, orderly Brexit” (the Conservative manifesto); or promised to
block no deal (Labour manifesto); or promised “to get the best deal for
Northern Ireland, recognising that we share a land frontier with the
Republic” (the DUP); or supported the UK’s continued membership of the
EU. Any MP who facilitated a no-deal exit would have been tearing up
their manifesto promises.
Anyone who thinks Boris' ultimate aim was facilitating a no-deal exit is
utterly clueless. Any MP who doesn't agree that no deal has to be the default
position in any negotiation is equally clueleless. It is no secret that the
people who object to leaving without a deal are all Remainers. In their
reluctance to do what is necessary, they are absolutely denying the will of the
people.
Northern Ireland has become a political totem for Remainers whose underlying
assumption is that what is best for Northern Ireland is to effectively remain
part of the EU in all but name. The EU has cynically exploited the Good Friday
agreement by rejecting all proposals that don't leave Britain in an even weaker
position. It seems to me that the best deal for Northern Ireland, in the
absence of anything suitable, is to leave with no deal and work with Ireland to
put pressure on the EU to come to an arrangement.
Alternatively, they could offer the province to Donald Trump for (say) £39
billion - and he could do what he liked with it.
We would have enough cash to pay the EU their exorbitant demand.
We could throw in Scotland to sweeten the deal :D
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