Discussion:
Met police driver faces criminal investigation after ramming moped
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MM
2018-12-04 10:31:58 UTC
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Permalink
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.

"A Metropolitan police driver is under criminal investigation after
using a special tactic to deliberately knock a fleeing suspect off a
moped, the Guardian has learned.

"The teenager, aged 17 at the time, suffered head injuries and a
broken foot as he fled from police. He was not wearing a helmet and
later pleaded guilty to several offences.

"The officer is believed to be the only one so far to face criminal
investigation after using the controversial 'tactical contact'
measure, whereby police in cars knock a suspect off their moped or
scooter, so they can be arrested.

"The Met adopted the tactic in October 2017 as it tried to quell a
wave of robberies carried out by suspects on mopeds. The incident
subject to criminal investigation happened a month later and is one of
two where suspects suffered serious injury."
.
,
.

"The police officer has been interviewed under caution as part of an
investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IPOC). The
watchdog said it would decide within weeks whether the officer should
be referred to the Crown Prosecution Service to face criminal charges,
for an offence such as actual bodily harm.

"As well as a criminal investigation, the officer has been told he
faces a disciplinary investigation for potential gross misconduct."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/04/met-police-driver-faces-criminal-investigation-after-ramming-moped

Let's hope the police now, finally, review their procedures, and while
doing so, also review the shocking death rates they cause each year in
high speed police pursuits.

MM
Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
2018-12-04 11:43:02 UTC
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Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
"A Metropolitan police driver is under criminal investigation after
using a special tactic to deliberately knock a fleeing suspect off a
moped, the Guardian has learned.
"The teenager, aged 17 at the time, suffered head injuries and a
broken foot as he fled from police. He was not wearing a helmet and
later pleaded guilty to several offences.
If you suffered head injuries and a broken foot while running from the
police, why would you bring criminal charges against the plod and why? other
than to try and get financial compensation from them?
The Todal
2018-12-04 12:12:24 UTC
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Permalink
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are! Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.

But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.

quote

The teenager was charged and later appeared at a youth court where he
pleaded guilty to attempted theft, interference with a vehicle, driving
with no licence, driving with no insurance, and dangerous driving.
Because of his age he cannot be named.

When the Met released footage a fortnight ago of its drivers knocking
suspects off mopeds, it said it had used tactical contact 63 times. It
also said the tactic would only be used by specialist officers called
“scorpion” drivers. The driver in the Erith incident is understood not
to have been a specialist scorpion driver, although at the time the
requirement was not in place.... The IOPC said it had a duty to
investigate cases where suspects were injured after being knocked off
their mopeds by police.

unquote.

So actually this may have been a one-off incident where an officer with
insufficient training was asked to stop the thief using the new tactics.
Maybe that reflects badly on his bosses. I hope he doesn't get
prosecuted since that would make officers very reluctant to use the new
tactics. It would be quite wrong to say the tactics are only lawful if
nobody gets hurt. You can't predict for sure whether a person might get
hurt.
Post by MM
"A Metropolitan police driver is under criminal investigation after
using a special tactic to deliberately knock a fleeing suspect off a
moped, the Guardian has learned.
"The teenager, aged 17 at the time, suffered head injuries and a
broken foot as he fled from police. He was not wearing a helmet and
later pleaded guilty to several offences.
"The officer is believed to be the only one so far to face criminal
investigation after using the controversial 'tactical contact'
measure, whereby police in cars knock a suspect off their moped or
scooter, so they can be arrested.
snip
Post by MM
Let's hope the police now, finally, review their procedures, and while
doing so, also review the shocking death rates they cause each year in
high speed police pursuits.
Let's hope the police aren't forced to abandon their new tactics because
of a one-off incident. I'm sure they review their procedures on a
continuous basis.
MM
2018-12-05 09:13:08 UTC
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Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are! Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.
But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.
Does a barrister argue for the defence or for the prosecution?

MM
The Todal
2018-12-05 10:06:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are! Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.
But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.
Does a barrister argue for the defence or for the prosecution?
Actually, a barrister puts both sides of the case to the jury. You won't
see that in movies or TV dramas, but it's true.
MM
2018-12-05 10:28:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are! Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.
But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.
Does a barrister argue for the defence or for the prosecution?
Actually, a barrister puts both sides of the case to the jury. You won't
see that in movies or TV dramas, but it's true.
"putting the case" is not the same as arguing *for* one side or the
other.

MM
JNugent
2018-12-05 15:09:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are! Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.
But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.
Does a barrister argue for the defence or for the prosecution?
Yes.
MM
2018-12-05 10:06:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...... The driver in the Erith incident is understood not
to have been a specialist scorpion driver....
So the police can't even ensure that only specialist drivers are used.

How many police chases happen with plain, ordinary officers at the
wheel? It's a ridiculous policy and I hope this case will cause other
offiers to resist such deployment in future.

MM
Paul Welsh
2018-12-05 13:15:57 UTC
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Permalink
Post by The Todal
So actually this may have been a one-off incident where an officer with
insufficient training was asked to stop the thief using the new tactics.
Maybe that reflects badly on his bosses. I hope he doesn't get
prosecuted since that would make officers very reluctant to use the new
tactics. It would be quite wrong to say the tactics are only lawful if
nobody gets hurt. You can't predict for sure whether a person might get
hurt.
You can predict that it is likely that people will get hurt.

I suspect it is likely it will also encourage chases. It is also likely
that these chases will result in innocent bystanders being hurt. We have
been here many times before with joyriding.

On the other hand I'm not clear how effective it will be at preventing
the crimes. Chasing joyriders never seemed to work.


[snip]
Post by The Todal
Let's hope the police aren't forced to abandon their new tactics because
of a one-off incident. I'm sure they review their procedures on a
continuous basis.
Given that the head of the Met Cressida Dick was responsible for one of
the most imbecilic risk assessments in UK policing history one has to be
sceptical of the police's ability in this area.

On the other hand I imagine Cressida does know a bit about politics.
Tough on crime, Lock em up, throw away the key, bobbies on the beat.
i.e. promoting policies which aren't really effective but that the
public like.

In a couple of years, after her policies have failed, she will be
shuffled aside. Given the murder rate, I'm surprised she hasn't gone
already.
JNugent
2018-12-05 17:16:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
See? All the good people with a conscience such as myself said this
was going to happen sooner or later when the police are allowed to
introduce idiotic tactics on the hoof.
How modest you are!  Well, as another good person with a conscience, I'm
delighted that the police have introduced these new tactics to stop and
detain the moped thieves. If the perpetrators do get injured,
regrettable though that is, maybe that will be an extra deterrent to them.
But you have chosen not to quote the most important parts of the
Guardian report. You prefer to quote only what supports your own position.
quote
The teenager was charged and later appeared at a youth court where he
pleaded guilty to attempted theft, interference with a vehicle, driving
with no licence, driving with no insurance, and dangerous driving.
Because of his age he cannot be named.
When the Met released footage a fortnight ago of its drivers knocking
suspects off mopeds, it said it had used tactical contact 63 times. It
also said the tactic would only be used by specialist officers called
“scorpion” drivers. The driver in the Erith incident is understood not
to have been a specialist scorpion driver, although at the time the
requirement was not in place.... The IOPC said it had a duty to
investigate cases where suspects were injured after being knocked off
their mopeds by police.
unquote.
So actually this may have been a one-off incident where an officer with
insufficient training was asked to stop the thief using the new tactics.
Maybe that reflects badly on his bosses. I hope he doesn't get
prosecuted since that would make officers very reluctant to use the new
tactics. It would be quite wrong to say the tactics are only lawful if
nobody gets hurt. You can't predict for sure whether a person might get
hurt.
Post by MM
"A Metropolitan police driver is under criminal investigation after
using a special tactic to deliberately knock a fleeing suspect off a
moped, the Guardian has learned.
"The teenager, aged 17 at the time, suffered head injuries and a
broken foot as he fled from police. He was not wearing a helmet and
later pleaded guilty to several offences.
"The officer is believed to be the only one so far to face criminal
investigation after using the controversial 'tactical contact'
measure, whereby police in cars knock a suspect off their moped or
scooter, so they can be arrested.
snip
Post by MM
Let's hope the police now, finally, review their procedures, and while
doing so, also review the shocking death rates they cause each year in
high speed police pursuits.
Let's hope the police aren't forced to abandon their new tactics because
of a one-off incident. I'm sure they review their procedures on a
continuous basis.
+1.

The way to avoid injury in any such incident is so simple: don't commit
crimes.

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