Discussion:
Brexit ministers out of touch with reality
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Pamela
2019-08-10 06:59:16 UTC
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"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778


There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.

The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".

The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.

But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
Norman Wells
2019-08-10 07:51:14 UTC
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Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
Excellent news then.
MM
2019-08-10 11:15:50 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
Excellent news then.
Yes, we can ask the EU to lend us a few boats.

MM
abelard
2019-08-10 08:17:54 UTC
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Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
so now you're claiming the eussr are pirates with no regard for the
law
so as an appeaser, you want to submit to them....
--
www.abelard.org
steve robinson
2019-08-10 08:37:03 UTC
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Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
Pamela
2019-08-10 09:34:16 UTC
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Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to intervene when
necessary. It's more cost.

How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less than
0.1% of the UK workforce and most of the fish they catch is exported.
MM
2019-08-10 11:21:30 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to intervene when
necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less than
0.1% of the UK workforce and most of the fish they catch is exported.
The foreign trawlers could say, look, chaps, you're going to export
much of what you catch to us anyway, so why don't we just save you all
the hassle and grab that fish so you don't have to?

MM
tim...
2019-08-10 13:43:54 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Pamela
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to intervene when
necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less than
0.1% of the UK workforce and most of the fish they catch is exported.
The foreign trawlers could say, look, chaps, you're going to export
much of what you catch to us anyway, so why don't we just save you all
the hassle and grab that fish so you don't have to?
because that locates all the jobs in the foreign country

tim
tim...
2019-08-10 13:43:02 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to intervene when
necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less than
0.1% of the UK workforce and
most of the fish they catch is exported.
um

why is that a bad thing if it's our boats that catch them?

tim
Pamela
2019-08-11 00:34:05 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Pamela
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three
times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced
after Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to
intervene when necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less
than 0.1% of the UK workforce and
most of the fish they catch is exported.
um
why is that a bad thing if it's our boats that catch them?
tim
Why is it a good thing that we have to make special arrangements for
fishermen which no other workers get?
kat
2019-08-11 08:30:00 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by tim...
Post by Pamela
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three
times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced
after Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to
intervene when necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents less
than 0.1% of the UK workforce and
most of the fish they catch is exported.
um
why is that a bad thing if it's our boats that catch them?
tim
Why is it a good thing that we have to make special arrangements for
fishermen which no other workers get?
You disapprove of all those grants the farmers get then.
--
kat
Post by Pamela
^..^<
Pamela
2019-08-11 16:58:57 UTC
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Post by kat
Post by Pamela
Post by tim...
On 09:37 10 Aug 2019, steve robinson
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 07:59:16 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three
times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced
after Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland .
All navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
You will need more than 12 ships to act as a deterrence and to
intervene when necessary. It's more cost.
How much are these fishing jobs worth anyway? Fishing represents
less than 0.1% of the UK workforce and
most of the fish they catch is exported.
um
why is that a bad thing if it's our boats that catch them?
tim
Why is it a good thing that we have to make special arrangements for
fishermen which no other workers get?
You disapprove of all those grants the farmers get then.
Including Dominic Cummings' sponging from the EU.

MM
2019-08-10 11:19:34 UTC
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On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 09:37:03 +0100, steve robinson
Post by steve robinson
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.
You don't need a large fleet of patrol boats any more , we have
reconnaissance aircraft that cover a coastal areas , satellite
technology that can read car number plates and realistically French
fishermen are unlikely to be fishing off the coast of Scotland . All
navel vessels have beyond horizon search technology.
Are the satellites painted yellow?

And do you think the French won't go as far as Scotland to fish? When
they go pretty much anywhere in Northern waters?

MM
tim...
2019-08-10 13:41:14 UTC
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Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
Do people really think that isn't enough?

OK so that isn't going to give 100% coverage, but such enforcement doesn't
work that way

No-one expects there to be a traffic warden on every street corner so that
they can pounce on every errant parker and ticket them immediately

They expect the deterrent effect of "a traffic warden might come along in
the next 2 hours" to be sufficient.

And there's also the possibility of using remote enforcement by studying the
boat's AIS signals. Or do people think that the boats are going to turn
that off to evade detection but risk an even bigger penalty if they are
caught? (Quite apart from the increased risk to life, not necessarily
theirs, that will accrue from turning it off.)

And catching them doing this will be easy, a helicopter or remote drone
could do it over quite a wide area in a few hours.

HMG seem to need some specialist help here

My rates are quite reasonable :-)

tim
Pamela
2019-08-11 00:37:13 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
Do people really think that isn't enough?
OK so that isn't going to give 100% coverage, but such enforcement
doesn't work that way
No-one expects there to be a traffic warden on every street corner so
that they can pounce on every errant parker and ticket them immediately
They expect the deterrent effect of "a traffic warden might come along
in the next 2 hours" to be sufficient.
And there's also the possibility of using remote enforcement by studying
the boat's AIS signals. Or do people think that the boats are going to
turn that off to evade detection but risk an even bigger penalty if they
are caught? (Quite apart from the increased risk to life, not
necessarily theirs, that will accrue from turning it off.)
And catching them doing this will be easy, a helicopter or remote drone
could do it over quite a wide area in a few hours.
HMG seem to need some specialist help here
My rates are quite reasonable :-)
tim
How fast do you think those 12 ships can move to undertake an
intervention? The area they have to cover is 3 times the size of the UK.
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