Discussion:
Where the your money's going.
(too old to reply)
harry
2018-03-12 07:29:39 UTC
Permalink
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 11:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake. Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow this.
GB
2018-03-12 11:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake. Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
Fredxx
2018-03-12 12:04:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit
working tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc.
don't allow this.
I agree.
Post by GB
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
It's almost as if politicians were going out of their way to create Brexit.
tim...
2018-03-12 16:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should simply
alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at the
next election)

tim
GB
2018-03-12 17:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit
working tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc.
don't allow this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits. I doubt the
people affected have a vote.
tim...
2018-03-12 20:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits.
under EU rules this does not work
Post by GB
I doubt the people affected have a vote.
they do have an MEP they can complain to

tim
pensive hamster
2018-03-12 20:17:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits.
under EU rules this does not work
This page seems to suggest it does:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/

'If you are an EEA national who has come to the UK and
you want to claim certain means-tested benefits, you may
have to satisfy the conditions of a test, known as the habitual
residence test.'
Post by tim...
Post by GB
I doubt the people affected have a vote.
they do have an MEP they can complain to
tim
tim...
2018-03-12 22:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits.
under EU rules this does not work
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/
'If you are an EEA national who has come to the UK and
you want to claim certain means-tested benefits, you may
have to satisfy the conditions of a test, known as the habitual
residence test.'
but that's not a qualifying period that requires you to wait to make a
claim. It's just a test to stop tourists claiming benefits

R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 21:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits.
under EU rules this does not work
Yes it does as long as it applies to everyone.
Post by tim...
Post by GB
I doubt the people affected have a vote.
they do have an MEP they can complain to
About UK government policy - get real.
Post by tim...
tim
tim...
2018-03-12 22:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by GB
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
Consequently people with large families in [eastern] Europe find it
worthwhile to come and work at minimum wage in the UK and remit working
tax credits money home to their families. F, D, I, B etc. don't allow
this.
Indeed, the EU have commented that, rather than leaving, we should
simply alter our benefits system.
perhaps they'd like to suggest how, in the real world, this would be
possible (for a government that doesn't want to lose by a landslide at
the next election)
Have a residency qualification period for certain benefits.
under EU rules this does not work
Yes it does as long as it applies to everyone.
the point is that when you apply a test of residency within the state

EU rules require you to make the item available on the basis of EU residency

This is why the Budapest scheme of free travel for pensioners is available
to every EU citizen (the test is residency in the state) but London does not
have to because the test is resident in London.

tim
tim...
2018-03-12 16:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
A residency rule would be illegal under EU rules (more specifically if it
did exist would have to treat EU citizens the same as Brits)

A working period qualification would be ideal, but very difficult to
introduce retrospectively after the world of business has dumbed down all
their jobs to take advantage of the governments' previous largess.

It's impossible to go back from where we are IMHO (I would love to be wrong)

tim
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 17:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
A residency rule would be illegal under EU rules (more specifically if it
did exist would have to treat EU citizens the same as Brits)
It would if it said you had to be a Brit', but not if it said you had to have had residence in the area for say six months or made contributions for a similar period - you couldn't claim unemployment benefit unless you had paid the premium (aka NI contributions) for six months.
Post by tim...
A working period qualification would be ideal, but very difficult to
introduce retrospectively after the world of business has dumbed down all
their jobs to take advantage of the governments' previous largess.
It's impossible to go back from where we are IMHO (I would love to be wrong)
tim
It would not be possible to jump back, and it would also tend to remove the incentive to work rather than just claim, but it could be reduced over time.
tim...
2018-03-12 20:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
A residency rule would be illegal under EU rules (more specifically if it
did exist would have to treat EU citizens the same as Brits)
It would if it said you had to be a Brit', but not if it said you had to
have had residence in the area for say six months or made contributions
for a similar period - you couldn't claim unemployment benefit unless you
had paid the premium (aka NI contributions) for six months.
the contribution rule works

the residency one doe not (if the rule is UK resident)

tim
GB
2018-03-12 17:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
A residency rule would be illegal under EU rules (more specifically if
it did exist would have to treat EU citizens the same as Brits)
I don't understand that, as several other EU countries have that rule.
That's the whole point.
Post by tim...
A working period qualification would be ideal, but very difficult to
introduce retrospectively after the world of business has dumbed down
all their jobs to take advantage of the governments' previous largess.
It's impossible to go back from where we are IMHO (I would love to be wrong)
tim
tim...
2018-03-12 20:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
That is because Gordon Browne allowed in work benefits without any
qualification period (of work or residence) and amazingly subsequent
governments have not seen fit to correct this [deliberate] mistake.
A residency rule would be illegal under EU rules (more specifically if it
did exist would have to treat EU citizens the same as Brits)
I don't understand that, as several other EU countries have that rule.
but they don't

these other countries have contribution rules that apply to everyone

You cannot claim benefits in these countries until you have been working for
a period of years. if you don't earn enough in your first job to be able to
afford to leave the family home, then you don't leave the family home

simples

tim
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-12 11:35:46 UTC
Permalink
"harry" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f233d76d-af73-409e-a620-***@googlegroups.com...
:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
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