Discussion:
A bit of a confusion
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Peter Percival
2019-11-30 15:15:55 UTC
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Usman Khan was out on licence. I suppose Boris Johnson had that in mind
when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the practice
of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half and let
really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't working."
But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent offence, he had
been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
Pancho
2019-11-30 15:38:58 UTC
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Usman Khan was out on licence.  I suppose Boris Johnson had that in mind
when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the practice
of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half and let
really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't working."
But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent offence, he had
been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
I think "preparing for acts of terrorism" is considered a violent offence.

Why would you think otherwise?
Peter Percival
2019-11-30 16:42:58 UTC
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Post by Pancho
Usman Khan was out on licence.  I suppose Boris Johnson had that in
mind when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the
practice of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half
and let really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't
working." But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent
offence, he had been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
I think "preparing for acts of terrorism" is considered a violent offence.
Not by me. I wonder if there's a lawyer's definition of what a violent
offence is.
Post by Pancho
Why would you think otherwise?
To me violence means damage to people or property.
pensive hamster
2019-11-30 17:10:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Post by Pancho
Usman Khan was out on licence.  I suppose Boris Johnson had that in
mind when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the
practice of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half
and let really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't
working." But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent
offence, he had been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
I think "preparing for acts of terrorism" is considered a violent offence.
Not by me. I wonder if there's a lawyer's definition of what a violent
offence is.
Post by Pancho
Why would you think otherwise?
To me violence means damage to people or property.
Ideally you want to identify and stop terrorists before they actually
carry out violent acts.

There is a short (14s) video of Usman Khan speaking to the BBC
in 2008, saying 'I ain't no terrorist'. I suppose most terrorists say that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50611788
London Bridge: Who was the attacker?

'Police have named the London Bridge attacker as Usman Khan,
who was previously jailed for his part in a plot to bomb the city's
stock exchange.'
Pancho
2019-11-30 17:40:30 UTC
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Post by Pancho
Usman Khan was out on licence.  I suppose Boris Johnson had that in
mind when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the
practice of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half
and let really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't
working." But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent
offence, he had been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
I think "preparing for acts of terrorism" is considered a violent offence.
Not by me.  I wonder if there's a lawyer's definition of what a violent
offence is.
Naively, I would assume something along the lines of *intent* to cause
violence.
Post by Pancho
Why would you think otherwise?
To me violence means damage to people or property.
Yes, but the crime is the intent for it to happen.

Pulling the trigger of a gun is not violent in its self, but shooting
someone is normally considered violent.

By analogy ordering or planing violence can be considered analogous to
pulling a trigger.
tim...
2019-11-30 19:08:52 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Post by Pancho
Post by Peter Percival
Usman Khan was out on licence. I suppose Boris Johnson had that in mind
when he said "I've said for a long time now, that I think the practice
of automatic, early release where we cut a sentence in half and let
really serious and violent offenders out early, simply isn't working."
But Khan hadn't been in prison for committing a violent offence, he had
been there for "preparing for acts of terrorism".
I think "preparing for acts of terrorism" is considered a violent offence.
Not by me. I wonder if there's a lawyer's definition of what a violent
offence is.
ISTM that it depends upon what his actual acts of preparation were

if they were just reading a few websites then I agree

but if he actually got as far as planning an attack, that's a different
matter

tim

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