Discussion:
the anemic 2 percent growth of the Obama years.
(too old to reply)
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-19 10:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
The great engine of American capitalism is once again firing on all
cylinders, as shown by the 4.1 percent annualized growth of America's gross
domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter of this year.

Most Americans (with the exception of Democrats in Congress) are celebrating
the good economic news. There is quiet rejoicing in many European and Asian
capitals as well, since their mostly sluggish economies will now be drawn
along in America's powerful wake.

But there is one capital where the American economic renaissance is
definitely not welcome news. Consternation reigns in China, where President
Xi Jinping is nervously watching his "China Dream" of dominating the United
States go up in smoke.

You see, surprising though it may sound, America's economy may now be
growing at a faster clip than China's. And this changes everything.
Until recently, the Chinese economic juggernaut seemed unstoppable. Once
China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001, its GDP exploded.
Unfettered access to American markets - combined with predatory trade
practices - allowed China to grow an economy only one-tenth the size of
America's to one nearly two-thirds as large.

Xi Jinping confidently predicted continued robust economic growth. He
promised his people that in the decades to come China would dominate
manufacturing, hi-tech, trade and just about everything. He said that by
2049 the Chinese economy would be three times the size of America's.

China's rise seemed so inexorable that in 2016 Bloomberg News even predicted
the exact year that America's economy would be eclipsed by China's. It was a
virtual mathematical certainty, its analysts calculated, that in 2027 the
Chinese dragon would overtake the American eagle and never look back.

The prediction was based on two seemingly reasonable assumptions: First,
that China would continue to grow its economy at 6.5 percent a year. Second,
that America would struggle to maintain the anemic 2 percent growth of the
Obama years.

Both assumptions have been dramatically proven wrong.

Under the Trump administration, the American economy is rising like a
phoenix from the ashes of the over-regulation, over-taxation and bad trade
deals that had threatened to suffocate it.

China's economic growth, on the other hand, is slowing under the burden of
an aging population, massive corruption, unproductive investment and
excessive debt. Add to this the growing risk that Chinese products will be
gradually pushed out of their major export market - the United States - and
you have the risk of a full-blown economic meltdown in China.

I concede that the official figures, especially those from China, seem to be
at odds with my projection of continued American economic dominance. After
all, the Chinese government's state plan calls for robust 6.5 percent growth
through at least 2021.

On the American side, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin forecasts "sustained
3 percent growth over the next four or five years." While this would be a
boffo performance for a mature economy like ours, it would still be only
half of China's.

Or would it?

It is wise to be extremely skeptical of the economic claims of totalitarian
dictatorships, whether they practice the classic communism of the Soviet
Union or the so-called "red capitalism" of China.

Chinese officials exaggerate their country's economic performance. In a
sense, they can't help themselves. If President Xi calls for 6.5 percent
economic growth, officials report 6.5 percent growth - or perhaps a little
more - for the country, prefecture or province they control. This is an act
of political self-preservation.

How much do China's autocrats inflate their GDP? A recent study by
University of Chicago political scientist Luis Martinez suggests that
autocratic regimes inflate their GDP growth by anywhere from 15 to 30
percent.

Martinez knows that a country's growth in nighttime brightness - the amount
of electric lights that are on each night - is a good measure of economic
growth. The more light, the more growth. So, he compared the reported GDP
growth rates of countries that were growing brighter at the same rate.
Martinez found that China was the worst offender, inflating its GDP growth
by about one-third.

Another study of night lights by researchers at the St. Louis Federal
Reserve found that "cumulative Chinese growth over the years (1992-2006)
could be overstated by as much as 65 percent." The study said that only
Burma - officially called Myanmar - had a larger gap between the official
and estimated numbers.

Other economic metrics used to measure China's growth may be equally
misleading. The country's colossal building spree, for example - no less
than its stock market boom - has been funded not by private creditors or
entrepreneurs, but by a massive outpouring of public debt.

The Chinese landscape is littered with "bridges to nowhere" - superhighways
that carry virtually no traffic, along with high-rise apartment buildings
that stand empty - each representing a government loan that will never be
paid back.

All government spending is inherently inefficient. But in a society like
China's, where corruption on the part of Communist Party officials is
endemic, it is actually destructive. Officials at all levels conspire with
well-connected companies to waste scarce public resources on projects where
there is simply no expectation of a return - except for the officials and
those they conspire with.

As a result of these factors, real growth in China is dramatically lower
than the 6.5 percent Beijing claims. Even Harvard's Kennedy School, long
bullish on China, now projects that China's GDP will grow at just 4.4
percent annually over the next decade.

Even this estimate may be far too optimistic, however, primarily because it
doesn't take into account the devastating effect that President Trump's
toughness is having on the Chinese economy. The country's industrial output,
retail sales and investment are all falling below forecasts. It stock market
is tanking, and its currency is weakening.

The Trump administration's limited tariffs, economists estimate, will cut as
much as half a percentage point from China's annual economic growth. If
President Trump slaps a 25 percent tariff on all Chinese imports, as he has
threatened to do, it could cut an entire percentage off of China's economic
growth. This would put China's real growth in the years to come at closer to
3 percent. Or lower.

China watcher Gordon Chang, for one, suggests that China's economy is only
growing at around 2 percent at the present time.

All this is to say that America's economy will, in all likelihood, be
growing faster than China's for some years to come. The gap between the
world's largest economy and the world's second-largest economy will not be
narrowing but widening.

At least some of China's otherwise quiescent academics seem to be waking up
from their "China Dream" to the new reality of America's continued
dominance. Well-known economist Ren Zeping, for example, recently warned
that "the U.S. will use its hegemonic system established since World War II
from trade, finance, currency, military, et cetera, to stop the rise of
China."

Blaming America for China's problems, of course, is a safe play for Chinese
intellectuals like Ren. But just as it is indisputable that America's recent
successes are of its own making, so are China's failures homegrown.

While America under President Trump is lightening the regulatory and tax
burdens that have hindered economic growth, China is attempting to spend its
way out of its self-inflicted economic malaise. The only Chinese sector that
has been performing well in recent years is exports, and here President
Trump is determined to make the Chinese pay for its rampant cheating of the
past.

The bottom line is this: The 21st century may not belong to China after all.
In fact, may well turn out to be the second American Century.
abelard
2018-08-19 11:05:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
The great engine of American capitalism is once again firing on all
cylinders, as shown by the 4.1 percent annualized growth of America's gross
domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter of this year.
well that's a turn up for the book..a realistic assessment of
the effect of trump's move toward autocracy compared
with the chinese paper tiger
Post by BurfordTJustice
Most Americans (with the exception of Democrats in Congress) are celebrating
the good economic news. There is quiet rejoicing in many European and Asian
capitals as well, since their mostly sluggish economies will now be drawn
along in America's powerful wake.
But there is one capital where the American economic renaissance is
definitely not welcome news. Consternation reigns in China, where President
Xi Jinping is nervously watching his "China Dream" of dominating the United
States go up in smoke.
You see, surprising though it may sound, America's economy may now be
growing at a faster clip than China's. And this changes everything.
Until recently, the Chinese economic juggernaut seemed unstoppable. Once
China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001, its GDP exploded.
Unfettered access to American markets - combined with predatory trade
practices - allowed China to grow an economy only one-tenth the size of
America's to one nearly two-thirds as large.
Xi Jinping confidently predicted continued robust economic growth. He
promised his people that in the decades to come China would dominate
manufacturing, hi-tech, trade and just about everything. He said that by
2049 the Chinese economy would be three times the size of America's.
China's rise seemed so inexorable that in 2016 Bloomberg News even predicted
the exact year that America's economy would be eclipsed by China's. It was a
virtual mathematical certainty, its analysts calculated, that in 2027 the
Chinese dragon would overtake the American eagle and never look back.
The prediction was based on two seemingly reasonable assumptions: First,
that China would continue to grow its economy at 6.5 percent a year. Second,
that America would struggle to maintain the anemic 2 percent growth of the
Obama years.
Both assumptions have been dramatically proven wrong.
Under the Trump administration, the American economy is rising like a
phoenix from the ashes of the over-regulation, over-taxation and bad trade
deals that had threatened to suffocate it.
China's economic growth, on the other hand, is slowing under the burden of
an aging population, massive corruption, unproductive investment and
excessive debt. Add to this the growing risk that Chinese products will be
gradually pushed out of their major export market - the United States - and
you have the risk of a full-blown economic meltdown in China.
I concede that the official figures, especially those from China, seem to be
at odds with my projection of continued American economic dominance. After
all, the Chinese government's state plan calls for robust 6.5 percent growth
through at least 2021.
On the American side, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin forecasts "sustained
3 percent growth over the next four or five years." While this would be a
boffo performance for a mature economy like ours, it would still be only
half of China's.
Or would it?
It is wise to be extremely skeptical of the economic claims of totalitarian
dictatorships, whether they practice the classic communism of the Soviet
Union or the so-called "red capitalism" of China.
Chinese officials exaggerate their country's economic performance. In a
sense, they can't help themselves. If President Xi calls for 6.5 percent
economic growth, officials report 6.5 percent growth - or perhaps a little
more - for the country, prefecture or province they control. This is an act
of political self-preservation.
How much do China's autocrats inflate their GDP? A recent study by
University of Chicago political scientist Luis Martinez suggests that
autocratic regimes inflate their GDP growth by anywhere from 15 to 30
percent.
Martinez knows that a country's growth in nighttime brightness - the amount
of electric lights that are on each night - is a good measure of economic
growth. The more light, the more growth. So, he compared the reported GDP
growth rates of countries that were growing brighter at the same rate.
Martinez found that China was the worst offender, inflating its GDP growth
by about one-third.
Another study of night lights by researchers at the St. Louis Federal
Reserve found that "cumulative Chinese growth over the years (1992-2006)
could be overstated by as much as 65 percent." The study said that only
Burma - officially called Myanmar - had a larger gap between the official
and estimated numbers.
Other economic metrics used to measure China's growth may be equally
misleading. The country's colossal building spree, for example - no less
than its stock market boom - has been funded not by private creditors or
entrepreneurs, but by a massive outpouring of public debt.
The Chinese landscape is littered with "bridges to nowhere" - superhighways
that carry virtually no traffic, along with high-rise apartment buildings
that stand empty - each representing a government loan that will never be
paid back.
All government spending is inherently inefficient. But in a society like
China's, where corruption on the part of Communist Party officials is
endemic, it is actually destructive. Officials at all levels conspire with
well-connected companies to waste scarce public resources on projects where
there is simply no expectation of a return - except for the officials and
those they conspire with.
As a result of these factors, real growth in China is dramatically lower
than the 6.5 percent Beijing claims. Even Harvard's Kennedy School, long
bullish on China, now projects that China's GDP will grow at just 4.4
percent annually over the next decade.
Even this estimate may be far too optimistic, however, primarily because it
doesn't take into account the devastating effect that President Trump's
toughness is having on the Chinese economy. The country's industrial output,
retail sales and investment are all falling below forecasts. It stock market
is tanking, and its currency is weakening.
The Trump administration's limited tariffs, economists estimate, will cut as
much as half a percentage point from China's annual economic growth. If
President Trump slaps a 25 percent tariff on all Chinese imports, as he has
threatened to do, it could cut an entire percentage off of China's economic
growth. This would put China's real growth in the years to come at closer to
3 percent. Or lower.
China watcher Gordon Chang, for one, suggests that China's economy is only
growing at around 2 percent at the present time.
All this is to say that America's economy will, in all likelihood, be
growing faster than China's for some years to come. The gap between the
world's largest economy and the world's second-largest economy will not be
narrowing but widening.
At least some of China's otherwise quiescent academics seem to be waking up
from their "China Dream" to the new reality of America's continued
dominance. Well-known economist Ren Zeping, for example, recently warned
that "the U.S. will use its hegemonic system established since World War II
from trade, finance, currency, military, et cetera, to stop the rise of
China."
Blaming America for China's problems, of course, is a safe play for Chinese
intellectuals like Ren. But just as it is indisputable that America's recent
successes are of its own making, so are China's failures homegrown.
While America under President Trump is lightening the regulatory and tax
burdens that have hindered economic growth, China is attempting to spend its
way out of its self-inflicted economic malaise. The only Chinese sector that
has been performing well in recent years is exports, and here President
Trump is determined to make the Chinese pay for its rampant cheating of the
past.
The bottom line is this: The 21st century may not belong to China after all.
In fact, may well turn out to be the second American Century.
--
www.abelard.org
abelard
2018-08-19 11:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
The great engine of American capitalism is once again firing on all
cylinders, as shown by the 4.1 percent annualized growth of America's gross
domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter of this year.
well that's a turn up for the book..a realistic assessment of
the effect of trump's move toward autocracy compared
with the chinese paper tiger
this may also be useful background(from the unreliable wikipedia)

steven mosher(the author of your post)

In 1979 Mosher became the first American research student to conduct
anthropological research in rural China after the Cultural Revolution.
He was given early access to China at the request of Jimmy Carter to
Deng Xiaoping. At the time he was married to a woman from Guangdong
province, and for several months between 1979 and 1980 lived in rural
Guangdong. He also traveled to Guizhou,[6] then a somewhat remote and
rarely visited part of China's southwest. In 1981 Mosher was denied
re-entry to China by the Chinese government, which considered he had
broken its laws and acted unethically.

Mosher was expelled from Stanford University's Ph.D program after
publishing an article in Taiwan about his experiences in Guangdong.
This expulsion occurred shortly before the publication of Broken
Earth.[7] The Chinese government was challenged by the contents of the
book, which revealed among other things that forced abortions were
common in that part of China as a part of the one-child policy. He
also released photographs of Chinese women undergoing forced abortions
with their faces exposed, a possible violation of personal privacy,
according to standards of anthropological ethics.[8] He was expelled
from Stanford University due to "illegal and unethical conduct." The
Mosher case became a cause célèbre in the academic world,[9] for it
was said[10] that Stanford acted under pressure from the Chinese
government, which threatened to withhold permission for future
Stanford researchers to visit China. However, Stanford said that its
concern was that Mosher's informants had been put in jeopardy and that
this was contrary to anthropological ethics.[11]
--
www.abelard.org
abelard
2018-08-19 17:02:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:14:27 -0700 (PDT), patrick.hearn
A polite request to all posters, it does help please to have attribution and name of the author if you could. Thank you in advance. By dint of a Google search I see it's from Fox News, not a bastion of impartiality. A quick research shows the author too, Steven W. Mosher, writes from a particular viewpoint and divides opinion.
There are perils in any such comparisons. Mr Obama was President from 2009-17, during world financial crises. He also faced Houses controlled by his political opponents, so might not have been able to follow policies that he might want. Aso, as (I) pointed out on another thread, Mr Trump is practising a reflationatry prtogramme with increased deficits and debt until at least 2022. How that pans out over 4 or 8 years, in different circumstances to Mr Obama, remains to be seen.
none of it as simple as you suggest...
looks like simplistic to me and a lot of it
I didn't portray it a simple, or indeed as anything.
eg measuring light as a surrogate for gdp is not a matter
of fox news...
corrected
I can't decypher the mistype, but I agree Fox News (or other broadcasters) and their commentators don't have an obligation to contextualise (although the better ones sometimes do)
contextualise what exactly?
nor is applying taxes to buy votes relevant to transferring
tax income from tariffs to farmers...
i could go on and on and on
No comment
there are many misunderstanding in you rather rambling
sentences
you my boy
Really?
are looking far too like fake news for my taste!
Fake news - what is 'true' or 'false', what is distorted?
eg, pretending the article is unsound because it was published by fox
news
Anyone discussing news or current events - as people do on newsgroups such as this - is critically analysing what's put in front of them, and contextualising it. It's fair comment.
i've also put out some background on the author for
context...(i've even ordered one of his books since
seeing the article)

ps, i did not post the original article..that was another poster..


you have also stripped the headers...another dubious behaviour
--
www.abelard.org
p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
2018-08-19 12:43:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
--
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abelard
2018-08-19 12:48:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
--
www.abelard.org
p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
2018-08-19 12:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.

So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
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Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
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abelard
2018-08-19 13:12:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.
So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
it is certainly an element...
but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
down which steadily it gets sucked
--
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p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
2018-08-19 16:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.
So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
it is certainly an element...
but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
down which steadily it gets sucked
So if capitalism fails it's the fault of socialism?

Could a failure of capitalism occur because of a fault within capitalism
itself or is that just plain silly.

I'm mean as a point of conjecture it appears to cats that as the means
of production head into the hands of a few that capitalism itself
appears to have a finite lifetime.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
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Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
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the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
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abelard
2018-08-19 16:51:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 17:23:49 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.
So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
it is certainly an element...
but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
down which steadily it gets sucked
So if capitalism fails it's the fault of socialism?
no..it is a slow withdrawal of a drug...normal medical
practice
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Could a failure of capitalism occur because of a fault within capitalism
itself or is that just plain silly.
that is indeed just plain silly...but of course 'failure of
capitalism' is mere sloganeering without meaning

first you could define what you mean by 'capitalism' and
how you would measure or identify 'failure'
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
I'm mean as a point of conjecture it appears to cats that as the means
of production head into the hands of a few that capitalism itself
appears to have a finite lifetime.
production is what produces goods...which hands production is
in is quite irrelevant...unless it is placed in the hands of
people who don't actually produce...

as with any marxist you are constantly confusing economics
with politics...until you can clarify that distinction in your
tiny pussy pin head you are bound to get monumentally
confused...
--
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p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
2018-08-19 18:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 17:23:49 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.
So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
it is certainly an element...
but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
down which steadily it gets sucked
So if capitalism fails it's the fault of socialism?
no..it is a slow withdrawal of a drug...normal medical
practice
So if capitalism fails it's because the drug supply is restricted and
people wake up and demand the right to be unhappy?
Post by abelard
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Could a failure of capitalism occur because of a fault within capitalism
itself or is that just plain silly.
that is indeed just plain silly...but of course 'failure of
capitalism' is mere sloganeering without meaning
So capitalism is bulletproof as a concept? Do you really believe that?
Post by abelard
first you could define what you mean by 'capitalism' and
how you would measure or identify 'failure'
Why? Bouffy doesn't have to do that about socialism and you don't do it
either neither geezer. Hey, I'm just teasing ya. NOT.

You didn't answer the question btw. Dodging just makes you the LUZER.
The 'silly' cop out was meant to catch yer out. Don't you want people to
take you seriously?
Post by abelard
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
I'm mean as a point of conjecture it appears to cats that as the means
of production head into the hands of a few that capitalism itself
appears to have a finite lifetime.
production is what produces goods...which hands production is
in is quite irrelevant...unless it is placed in the hands of
people who don't actually produce...
So lots of people sitting around consuming but doing nothing is your
idea of a healthy capitalist society? Cos that seems to be where we are
headed.
Post by abelard
as with any marxist you are constantly confusing economics
with politics...
I'm a Marxist now. Do I get a pay rise?
Post by abelard
until you can clarify that distinction in your
tiny pussy pin head you are bound to get monumentally
confused...
Cats are used to confusion. We even thrive on it. Bit like Trump except
that we really are the masters of it and not just creators of it.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
--
p-0.0-h the cat

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I mark any message from »Q« the troll as stinky
abelard
2018-08-19 20:17:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 19:43:15 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 17:23:49 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Post by abelard
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by BurfordTJustice
Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
to offspring of goats?
It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of us,
Bouffy excepted.
So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
it is certainly an element...
but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
down which steadily it gets sucked
So if capitalism fails it's the fault of socialism?
no..it is a slow withdrawal of a drug...normal medical
practice
So if capitalism fails it's because the drug supply is restricted and
people wake up and demand the right to be unhappy?
repeat, what does 'capitalism failed' mean
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Could a failure of capitalism occur because of a fault within capitalism
itself or is that just plain silly.
that is indeed just plain silly...but of course 'failure of
capitalism' is mere sloganeering without meaning
So capitalism is bulletproof as a concept? Do you really believe that?
you haven't defined 'capitalism' or told me what 'failed'
means in that context
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
first you could define what you mean by 'capitalism' and
how you would measure or identify 'failure'
Why? Bouffy doesn't have to do that about socialism and you don't do it
either neither geezer. Hey, I'm just teasing ya. NOT.
you really can be a little crazy...i am not burf...
i am not responsible for his posts nor he for mine
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
You didn't answer the question btw. Dodging just makes you the LUZER.
The 'silly' cop out was meant to catch yer out. Don't you want people to
take you seriously?
you are the one dodging and dodging and dodging...

fir define what you mean...if you mean anything at all
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
I'm mean as a point of conjecture it appears to cats that as the means
of production head into the hands of a few that capitalism itself
appears to have a finite lifetime.
production is what produces goods...which hands production is
in is quite irrelevant...unless it is placed in the hands of
people who don't actually produce...
So lots of people sitting around consuming but doing nothing is your
idea of a healthy capitalist society? Cos that seems to be where we are
headed.
that is your view...it has pretty damn all to do with reality...
like so many who have no knowledge of brain work i can see
you saying to einstein...'you're not working because i can't
see steam coming out of your ears...
this is a widespread reason for the envy of socialists for their
betters
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
as with any marxist you are constantly confusing economics
with politics...
I'm a Marxist now. Do I get a pay rise?
not in my book...the nonsense of marx has encouraged great
damage and waste...
why would you by paid to cause waste and damage
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Post by abelard
until you can clarify that distinction in your
tiny pussy pin head you are bound to get monumentally
confused...
Cats are used to confusion. We even thrive on it.
you certainly appear to
Post by p-0''0-h the cat (coder)
Bit like Trump except
that we really are the masters of it and not just creators of it.
i see no mastership...just blather and bluff...

whereas trump has built rather a lot
--
www.abelard.org
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-20 10:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Dance little dodger dance....LOL!!




"p-0''0-h the cat (coder)" <***@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:51:54 +0200, abelard <***@abelard.org>
: wrote:
:
: >On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 17:23:49 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
: ><***@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
: >
: >>On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 15:12:08 +0200, abelard <***@abelard.org>
: >>wrote:
: >>
: >>>On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:56:05 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
: >>><***@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
: >>>
: >>>>On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 14:48:28 +0200, abelard <***@abelard.org>
: >>>>wrote:
: >>>>
: >>>>>On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 13:43:08 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
: >>>>><***@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
: >>>>>
: >>>>>>On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 06:50:20 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
: >>>>>><burford/***@uk.MI15> wrote:
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>>Trump's policies could enable America's economy to outpace China's
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>Yep, keep spending, the kids are gonna love paying it back for you.
: >>>>>
: >>>>>if you pay it back in taxes what has that to do with
: >>>>> to offspring of goats?
: >>>>
: >>>>It hasn't got anything to do with the offspring of goats for most of
us,
: >>>>Bouffy excepted.
: >>>>
: >>>>So if it's not paid back it is socialism? Is that the way it works?
: >>>
: >>>it is certainly an element...
: >>>but what really happen is the country moves towards the plughole
: >>> down which steadily it gets sucked
: >>
: >>So if capitalism fails it's the fault of socialism?
: >
: >no..it is a slow withdrawal of a drug...normal medical
: > practice
:
: So if capitalism fails it's because the drug supply is restricted and
: people wake up and demand the right to be unhappy?
:
:
: >>Could a failure of capitalism occur because of a fault within capitalism
: >>itself or is that just plain silly.
: >
: >that is indeed just plain silly...but of course 'failure of
: > capitalism' is mere sloganeering without meaning
:
: So capitalism is bulletproof as a concept? Do you really believe that?
:
:
: >first you could define what you mean by 'capitalism' and
: > how you would measure or identify 'failure'
:
: Why? Bouffy doesn't have to do that about socialism and you don't do it
: either neither geezer. Hey, I'm just teasing ya. NOT.
:
: You didn't answer the question btw. Dodging just makes you the LUZER.
: The 'silly' cop out was meant to catch yer out. Don't you want people to
: take you seriously?
:
:
: >>I'm mean as a point of conjecture it appears to cats that as the means
: >>of production head into the hands of a few that capitalism itself
: >>appears to have a finite lifetime.
: >
: >production is what produces goods...which hands production is
: > in is quite irrelevant...unless it is placed in the hands of
: > people who don't actually produce...
:
: So lots of people sitting around consuming but doing nothing is your
: idea of a healthy capitalist society? Cos that seems to be where we are
: headed.
:
: >as with any marxist you are constantly confusing economics
: > with politics...
:
: I'm a Marxist now. Do I get a pay rise?
:
: > until you can clarify that distinction in your
: > tiny pussy pin head you are bound to get monumentally
: > confused...
:
: Cats are used to confusion. We even thrive on it. Bit like Trump except
: that we really are the masters of it and not just creators of it.
:
: Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
:
: --
: p-0.0-h the cat
:
: Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
: Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey
Boy,
: Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
: the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll
infâme,
: the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife
troll,
: shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
: smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
: liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, scouringerer, jumped up
chav,
: punk ass dole whore troll, religious maniac, lycanthropic schizotypal
lesbian,
: the most complete ignoid, joker, and furball.
:
: NewsGroups Numbrer One Terrorist
:
: Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
: By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
:
: Signature integrity check
: md5 Checksum: be0b2a8c486d83ce7db9a459b26c4896
:
: I mark any message from »Q« the troll as stinky
:

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