Discussion:
No one voted to be poorer
(too old to reply)
Yellow
2018-03-10 20:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Ian Jackson
2018-03-10 21:06:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.

I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-03-10 21:34:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".

Perhaps I did, how would they know?
Post by Ian Jackson
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
Neither your view nor O'Brien's view as you present it here, answers the
question but instead offers up an opinion - which is of course exactly
the point.

Remoaners like to claim that we can stay in the Customs Union and Single
Market because "no one knows what Leavers voted for" yet they also like
to claim "no one voted to be poorer".

Out of interest does O'Brien ever state outright that "no one voted to
be poorer"?
Ian Jackson
2018-03-10 23:03:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
Neither your view nor O'Brien's view as you present it here, answers the
question but instead offers up an opinion - which is of course exactly
the point.
J o'B simply takes a caller through how their personal circumstances are
likely to be affected after we've left. There's no real coercion or
bullying - and most of the time they agree with him (albeit sometimes
reluctantly). But when it comes to a final summing-up, and he asks
whether they would change their mind in a second referendum, most say
"No" - and deny that they would deliberately vote to be poorer (even
though they've just agreed that they would be). There's simply a total
breakdown in their logic.
Post by Yellow
Remoaners like to claim that we can stay in the Customs Union and Single
Market because "no one knows what Leavers voted for" yet they also like
to claim "no one voted to be poorer".
I've never heard ANY Remoaner claim that we CAN stay in the Customs
Union and Single Market (although most of us would be delighted if a way
of doing do could be found). The EU keep telling us that we can't - and
there's no reason to believe that we will be able to.
Post by Yellow
Out of interest does O'Brien ever state outright that "no one voted to
be poorer"?
I don't think so. His usual tack is to ask whether someone knew that
they were effectively voting to be poorer, and whether this really was
their intention. I have to say that I haven't heard him doing this sort
of thing lately.
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-03-11 00:38:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
But you have to admit that as there was no such question on the ballot
paper, you cannot be sure. All you have is you own opinion on the
matter.

The phrase used is "no one voted to be poorer" not "I do not think
anyone would have voted to be poorer".
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
Neither your view nor O'Brien's view as you present it here, answers the
question but instead offers up an opinion - which is of course exactly
the point.
J o'B simply takes a caller through how their personal circumstances are
likely to be affected after we've left.
I am really not bothered about how O'Brien runs his little talk show and
am instead interested in what was on the referendum ballot paper.

<snip>
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Remoaners like to claim that we can stay in the Customs Union and Single
Market because "no one knows what Leavers voted for" yet they also like
to claim "no one voted to be poorer".
I've never heard ANY Remoaner claim that we CAN stay in the Customs
Union and Single Market
<raises eyebrow in a Roger Moore fashion>

While that was not the point I was making - seriously? You need to
listen harder to what is currently being said by Labour politicians who
claim if they were in power the EU would agree because they would
approach the EU as friends.

McDonnell said only a few days back that because he used to sit on some
committee or another in Brussels he knew exactly how to handle such
negotiations with the European folk.
Post by Ian Jackson
(although most of us would be delighted if a way
of doing do could be found). The EU keep telling us that we can't - and
there's no reason to believe that we will be able to.
I appreciate you do not wish to address my actual point but I am going
to try again in any case....

How come Remoaners often repeat that we can comply with the referendum
result to leave the EU while staying in the Customs Union and Single
Market because that question was not asked while stating categorically
that "no one voted to to be poorer" when that question was not on the
ballot paper either?
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Out of interest does O'Brien ever state outright that "no one voted to
be poorer"?
I don't think so.
So why on earth did you bring him up?
Post by Ian Jackson
His usual tack is to ask whether someone knew that
they were effectively voting to be poorer, and whether this really was
their intention. I have to say that I haven't heard him doing this sort
of thing lately.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 08:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
But you have to admit that as there was no such question on the ballot
paper, you cannot be sure. All you have is you own opinion on the
matter.
The phrase used is "no one voted to be poorer" not "I do not think
anyone would have voted to be poorer".
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
Neither your view nor O'Brien's view as you present it here, answers the
question but instead offers up an opinion - which is of course exactly
the point.
J o'B simply takes a caller through how their personal circumstances are
likely to be affected after we've left.
I am really not bothered about how O'Brien runs his little talk show and
am instead interested in what was on the referendum ballot paper.
<snip>
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Remoaners like to claim that we can stay in the Customs Union and Single
Market because "no one knows what Leavers voted for" yet they also like
to claim "no one voted to be poorer".
I've never heard ANY Remoaner claim that we CAN stay in the Customs
Union and Single Market
<raises eyebrow in a Roger Moore fashion>
While that was not the point I was making - seriously? You need to
listen harder to what is currently being said by Labour politicians who
claim if they were in power the EU would agree because they would
approach the EU as friends.
McDonnell said only a few days back that because he used to sit on some
committee or another in Brussels he knew exactly how to handle such
negotiations with the European folk.
Post by Ian Jackson
(although most of us would be delighted if a way
of doing do could be found). The EU keep telling us that we can't - and
there's no reason to believe that we will be able to.
I appreciate you do not wish to address my actual point but I am going
to try again in any case....
How come Remoaners often repeat that we can comply with the referendum
result to leave the EU while staying in the Customs Union and Single
Market because that question was not asked while stating categorically
that "no one voted to to be poorer" when that question was not on the
ballot paper either?
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Out of interest does O'Brien ever state outright that "no one voted to
be poorer"?
I don't think so.
So why on earth did you bring him up?
Post by Ian Jackson
His usual tack is to ask whether someone knew that
they were effectively voting to be poorer, and whether this really was
their intention. I have to say that I haven't heard him doing this sort
of thing lately.
You know as well as I do that the referendum simply asked IN or OUT.
Nevertheless, it's reasonable to ask if those people who voted OUT voted
for the some of the consequences of being OUT - and give a few examples
of the side-effects of what they were actually voting for (and even if
they KNEW that this was what they were voting for).

Many of those who voted OUT were simply voting for the Sunny Uplands in
the Land Of Milk And Honey - ie "We wanted freedom from the Oppressive
Yoke of The Dictatorship in Brussels" - "We wanted to stop all those EU
immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and immediately being given
council houses" - "We wanted our fishing waters back" etc etc - and even
"We'll be able to restore shipbuilding to Wearside" - without any
consideration of the adverse consequences.
--
Ian
tim...
2018-03-11 09:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought they
might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold statements
like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my family their
jobs").
I can accept that you might be right in the suggestion that no-one voted to
make themselves individually worse off

But I can't accept the extrapolation to suggesting that no-one voted to be
slightly worse off in a country where everyone was, on average, slightly
worse off, but where all benefitted from additional life chances from a
fairer system of income distribution.

I believe that many people willing voted for the latter.

tim
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 10:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers,
I really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really
thought they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite
brave, bold statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it
costs me and my family their jobs").
I can accept that you might be right in the suggestion that no-one
voted to make themselves individually worse off
But I can't accept the extrapolation to suggesting that no-one voted to
be slightly worse off in a country where everyone was, on average,
slightly worse off, but where all benefitted from additional life
chances from a fairer system of income distribution.
I'm sure that many Leavers would be prepared to a bit worse off if it
meant that the worst-off would be a bit (or even 'a lot') better off.
[And the same is probably true of Remainers.]

However, it's only a few weeks since the idea of raising income tax to
help to fund the NHS and other worthy causes was briefly raised (again)
and debated, and almost without exception your typical in-phoner and
interviewee said "Bugger that for a game of soldiers - I pay enough tax"
(or words to that effect). As a result, I am left wondering how
magnanimous and altruistic most of us really are.
Post by tim...
I believe that many people willing voted for the latter.
When Brexit voters had it pointed out to them that all the indications
were that we could be worse off outside the EU, the reaction of some was
"Yes - it's going to be a bumpy road for a number of years, but in the
end we'll be better off". I do hope they're right!
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-03-11 13:57:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:16:34 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
I'm sure that many Leavers would be prepared to a bit worse off if it
meant that the worst-off would be a bit (or even 'a lot') better off.
[And the same is probably true of Remainers.]
However, it's only a few weeks since the idea of raising income tax to
help to fund the NHS and other worthy causes was briefly raised (again)
and debated, and almost without exception your typical in-phoner and
interviewee said "Bugger that for a game of soldiers - I pay enough tax"
(or words to that effect). As a result, I am left wondering how
magnanimous and altruistic most of us really are.
Interestingly, when in the past they have asked for a show of hands of
people on the BBC's Question Time, people always seem to say "yes" to
paying more tax for the NHS.

But that aside, it often seems to me that it is generally the left who
do not think they should individually pay more tax but instead think the
"rich" and "corporations" should pay more while the right would rather
see the money we already have spent more effectively.

And none of that has anything to do with people's position on leaving
the EU.
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
I believe that many people willing voted for the latter.
When Brexit voters had it pointed out to them that all the indications
were that we could be worse off outside the EU, the reaction of some was
"Yes - it's going to be a bumpy road for a number of years, but in the
end we'll be better off". I do hope they're right!
Which brings us back to what does "better off" actually mean and it
seems to always comeback to GDP when you discuss this with a remainer.

Do you agree?

But interestingly, when we had the cold snap we needed to produce more
power so GDP went up, even though individual households became poorer
because they have had to pay out more to heat their homes.

So pick the bones out of that.
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:16:34 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
I'm sure that many Leavers would be prepared to a bit worse off if it
meant that the worst-off would be a bit (or even 'a lot') better off.
[And the same is probably true of Remainers.]
However, it's only a few weeks since the idea of raising income tax to
help to fund the NHS and other worthy causes was briefly raised (again)
and debated, and almost without exception your typical in-phoner and
interviewee said "Bugger that for a game of soldiers - I pay enough tax"
(or words to that effect). As a result, I am left wondering how
magnanimous and altruistic most of us really are.
Interestingly, when in the past they have asked for a show of hands of
people on the BBC's Question Time, people always seem to say "yes" to
paying more tax for the NHS.
But that aside, it often seems to me that it is generally the left who
do not think they should individually pay more tax but instead think the
"rich" and "corporations" should pay more while the right would rather
see the money we already have spent more effectively.
And none of that has anything to do with people's position on leaving
the EU.
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
I believe that many people willing voted for the latter.
When Brexit voters had it pointed out to them that all the indications
were that we could be worse off outside the EU, the reaction of some was
"Yes - it's going to be a bumpy road for a number of years, but in the
end we'll be better off". I do hope they're right!
Which brings us back to what does "better off" actually mean and it
seems to always comeback to GDP when you discuss this with a remainer.
Do you agree?
But interestingly, when we had the cold snap we needed to produce more
power so GDP went up, even though individual households became poorer
because they have had to pay out more to heat their homes.
That's a reather over-flexed definition of "poorer"!

I have paid my winter bills. I don't feel any poorer for it.
Post by Yellow
So pick the bones out of that.
Yellow
2018-03-11 18:06:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
When Brexit voters had it pointed out to them that all the indications
were that we could be worse off outside the EU, the reaction of some was
"Yes - it's going to be a bumpy road for a number of years, but in the
end we'll be better off". I do hope they're right!
Which brings us back to what does "better off" actually mean and it
seems to always comeback to GDP when you discuss this with a remainer.
Do you agree?
But interestingly, when we had the cold snap we needed to produce more
power so GDP went up, even though individual households became poorer
because they have had to pay out more to heat their homes.
That's a reather over-flexed definition of "poorer"!
I have paid my winter bills. I don't feel any poorer for it.
But financially you are, if you needed to spend more on fuel when the
temperature dropped to -10 deg C.

The point is GDP measures what it measures but what it does not do is
measure how wealthy individual people are and this is the perfect
example why.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 00:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on =
The
Post by Yellow
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner=
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I=
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brex=
it.

-- =

=E2=80=9CLosing one glove is certainly painful, but nothing compared to =
the pain of losing one, throwing away the other, and finding the first o=
ne again.=E2=80=9D -- Piet Hein, Danish Mathematician.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 11:36:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.

Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
The Peeler
2018-03-12 12:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Troll-feeding idiot!
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 13:05:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson=
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
ow
Post by Yellow
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien'=
s
Post by Yellow
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed =
on The
Post by Yellow
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoa=
ner
Post by Yellow
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers=
, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thoug=
ht
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bol=
d
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and =
my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after B=
rexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole popul=
ation [of the UK] yes we are.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better o=
ff.

Is this one of those 2% increases that gets journalists excited but nobo=
dy actually cares? Why should I be any different?

Remember that time when interest rates fell and everyone got upset? I d=
idn't. I (and many many others) have a mortgage, which dropped dramatic=
ally.

-- =

A Catholic boy in confession says, =E2=80=9CBless me Father, I have sinn=
ed, I masturbated while thinking about my sister.=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=9CThat's a disgrace,=E2=80=9D said the priest, =E2=80=9Cespeciall=
y when you have two gorgeous younger brothers.=E2=80=9D
pamela
2018-03-12 14:20:01 UTC
Permalink
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of
Remoaner after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be
poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of
Brexiteers, I really cannot bring myself to believe that any of
them really thought they might be worse off when the voted to
leave (despite brave, bold statements like "At any cost" and "I
don't care if it costs me and my family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference
after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting
better off.
It's death by a thousand cuts. He may not have noticed the creeping
prices, the declining value of the pound, fewer foreign nurses, UK
economy's fall in the G7 ranking, and so on but when he does it will
be hard to correct.

That's before we have to pay for good imported under lousy post-
Brexit trade deals.

He probably didn't notice the cost of servicing war debt for decades
after WW2 and won't notice repayments of the £40 billion divorce
settlement. But one day when he visits the EU27 he will see how
much more the people have improved their standard of living than we
have. It took decades for the same realisation to sink in after the
war to see the UK economy had been faltering badly and that we
needed to join the EC. How we used to look down at the penniless
drifting dumb Dagos living around the Med until we saw more closely
what a high standard of living they really had.

He might also notice, post-Brexit, we will not be £350 million a
week better off. He might also notice how, post-Brexit, we will
have a similar number of foreigners working here but then they are
more likely to come from the rest of the world rather than Europe.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 14:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of
Remoaner after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be
poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of
Brexiteers, I really cannot bring myself to believe that any of
them really thought they might be worse off when the voted to
leave (despite brave, bold statements like "At any cost" and "I
don't care if it costs me and my family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting
better off.
It's death by a thousand cuts. He may not have noticed the creeping
prices, the declining value of the pound, fewer foreign nurses, UK
economy's fall in the G7 ranking, and so on but when he does it will
be hard to correct.
That's before we have to pay for good imported under lousy post-
Brexit trade deals.
He probably didn't notice the cost of servicing war debt for decades
after WW2 and won't notice repayments of the =A340 billion divorce
settlement. But one day when he visits the EU27 he will see how
much more the people have improved their standard of living than we
have. It took decades for the same realisation to sink in after the
war to see the UK economy had been faltering badly and that we
needed to join the EC. How we used to look down at the penniless
drifting dumb Dagos living around the Med until we saw more closely
what a high standard of living they really had.
He might also notice, post-Brexit, we will not be =A3350 million a
week better off. He might also notice how, post-Brexit, we will
have a similar number of foreigners working here but then they are
more likely to come from the rest of the world rather than Europe.
I didn't notice any of the above because they're miniscule. I bet you b=
elieve a 0.1C rise in average temperature is going to kill the planet to=
o.

-- =

After pleading no contest to burglarizing Britney Spears's home, four me=
n received three years of probation.
All they had to do was sign an agreement not to reveal what they stole f=
rom the house or how many batteries it took.
Yellow
2018-03-12 14:32:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
pamela
2018-03-12 14:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film
of Remoaner after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be
poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of
Brexiteers, I really cannot bring myself to believe that any
of them really thought they might be worse off when the voted
to leave (despite brave, bold statements like "At any cost"
and "I don't care if it costs me and my family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less
money in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a
year's time.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting
better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more
money in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Have you seen the exchange rate recently? That money in your pocket
is not worth anything like what it used to be a couple of years ago.

Despite the weakness of the pound, the UK trade deficit is widening
and we still import more than we export.

The UK's credit rating for international trade has been downgraded
and Britain has sunk to the bottom of the G7 growth table. How will
that make us better off?

What a mess.
--
The wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 14:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film
of Remoaner after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be
poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of
Brexiteers, I really cannot bring myself to believe that any
of them really thought they might be worse off when the voted
to leave (despite brave, bold statements like "At any cost"
and "I don't care if it costs me and my family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less
money in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a
year's time.
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more
money in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Have you seen the exchange rate recently? That money in your pocket
is not worth anything like what it used to be a couple of years ago.
Despite the weakness of the pound, the UK trade deficit is widening
and we still import more than we export.
The UK's credit rating for international trade has been downgraded
and Britain has sunk to the bottom of the G7 growth table. How will
that make us better off?
What a mess.
Funny, I'm buying stuff from China on Ebay at dirt cheap prices, as I always have.
--
The reason people sweat is so that they won't catch fire when having sex.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 14:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-average-wage-growth-rate-inflation-real-incomes-fall-ons-september-a8055706.html

so since the vote Brit's have got poorer and IMO will continue to do so for a while yet.
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/

As you can see real wages rose in 22 EU countries and fell in only 5 plus the UK, with an average increase of 0.4%, whilst in the UK the fall was 0.2%.

I suppose that does not prove that they might not have had even more money outside the EU, but the example of Britain, which was doing so well BEFORE it voted to leave, strongly suggests the opposite.


The trouble with the Brexit nightmare is that you pinch yourself and it is still happening. Worse Brexiteers are still dreaming of a better tomorrow, when already it is worse today.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 15:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-average-wage-growth-rate-inflation-real-incomes-fall-ons-september-a8055706.html
so since the vote Brit's have got poorer and IMO will continue to do so for a while yet.
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
As you can see real wages rose in 22 EU countries and fell in only 5 plus the UK, with an average increase of 0.4%, whilst in the UK the fall was 0.2%.
I suppose that does not prove that they might not have had even more money outside the EU, but the example of Britain, which was doing so well BEFORE it voted to leave, strongly suggests the opposite.
The trouble with the Brexit nightmare is that you pinch yourself and it is still happening. Worse Brexiteers are still dreaming of a better tomorrow, when already it is worse today.
These numbers go up and down all the time. It's like looking out the window, seeing a sunny day, and stating that it proves global warming.
--
FIGHT BACK! Fill out your tax forms with Roman numerals.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 15:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-average-wage-growth-rate-inflation-real-incomes-fall-ons-september-a8055706.html
so since the vote Brit's have got poorer and IMO will continue to do so for a while yet.
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
As you can see real wages rose in 22 EU countries and fell in only 5 plus the UK, with an average increase of 0.4%, whilst in the UK the fall was 0.2%.
I suppose that does not prove that they might not have had even more money outside the EU, but the example of Britain, which was doing so well BEFORE it voted to leave, strongly suggests the opposite.
The trouble with the Brexit nightmare is that you pinch yourself and it is still happening. Worse Brexiteers are still dreaming of a better tomorrow, when already it is worse today.
These numbers go up and down all the time. It's like looking out the window, seeing a sunny day, and stating that it proves global warming.
The trouble is you say "prove it", get given the proof and then continue in denial...
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 16:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-average-wage-growth-rate-inflation-real-incomes-fall-ons-september-a8055706.html
so since the vote Brit's have got poorer and IMO will continue to do so for a while yet.
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
As you can see real wages rose in 22 EU countries and fell in only 5 plus the UK, with an average increase of 0.4%, whilst in the UK the fall was 0.2%.
I suppose that does not prove that they might not have had even more money outside the EU, but the example of Britain, which was doing so well BEFORE it voted to leave, strongly suggests the opposite.
The trouble with the Brexit nightmare is that you pinch yourself and it is still happening. Worse Brexiteers are still dreaming of a better tomorrow, when already it is worse today.
These numbers go up and down all the time. It's like looking out the window, seeing a sunny day, and stating that it proves global warming.
The trouble is you say "prove it", get given the proof and then continue in denial...
It wasn't me who asked you to prove it.

Your "proof" was fractions of a percent.

Get real.
--
You have got to remember that women make babies - not a great bit of design work. Messy, noisy and cannot do anything useful.
The Peeler
2018-03-12 17:43:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 08:35:45 -0700 (PDT), R. Mark Clayton, yet another
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The trouble is you say "prove it", get given the proof and then continue in denial...
The REAL trouble is, you ARE a troll-feeding idiot!
Yellow
2018-03-12 16:03:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there
No shit.

<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 16:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there
No shit.
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 16:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there
No shit.
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
--
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. -- Mark Twain
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.

Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The Peeler
2018-03-12 17:43:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:15:34 -0700 (PDT), R. Mark Clayton, yet another
Post by R. Mark Clayton
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20%
against the Euro from pre-vote.
And the idiot KEEPS feeding the dumbest troll around! <tsk>
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 17:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
So still less than 1% then.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The pound goes up and down more than a prostitute's knickers. And nothing in reality ever seems to change, just the numbers.
--
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 18:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
So still less than 1% then.
In one year. More since the vote.
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The pound goes up and down more than a prostitute's knickers. And nothing in reality ever seems to change, just the numbers.
The prices in the shops changed - the resulting inflation one of the reasons why Brit's are worse off.

Long term the decline is even more marked :-(
The Peeler
2018-03-12 19:20:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:50 -0700 (PDT), R. Mark Clayton, yet another
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The prices in the shops changed - the resulting inflation one of the
reasons why Brit's are worse off.
Long term the decline is even more marked :-(
I wonder whether the troll is feeding YOU, or you are feeding him, idiot!
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 19:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
So still less than 1% then.
In one year. More since the vote.
Do you know what a percent is? It's a very small unit.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The pound goes up and down more than a prostitute's knickers. And nothing in reality ever seems to change, just the numbers.
The prices in the shops changed - the resulting inflation one of the reasons why Brit's are worse off.
Long term the decline is even more marked :-(
Funny, the stuff I buy seems to buy the same price.
--
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 21:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
So still less than 1% then.
In one year. More since the vote.
Do you know what a percent is? It's a very small unit.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The pound goes up and down more than a prostitute's knickers. And nothing in reality ever seems to change, just the numbers.
The prices in the shops changed - the resulting inflation one of the reasons why Brit's are worse off.
Long term the decline is even more marked :-(
Funny, the stuff I buy seems to buy the same price.
Funny the stuff I buy - wine, olive oil, milk, butter, fish, oranges, PC components [...long list...] has all gone up, some of it a lot.
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
--
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
Yeh they went round in circles...
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 21:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017 (including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion, and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's have less.
Oh but it's a whole 0.2% difference!! Learn basic mathematics before making a fool of yourself again.
0.6% actually, if ever bother to read stuff and in just 2017.
So still less than 1% then.
In one year. More since the vote.
Do you know what a percent is? It's a very small unit.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of course the markets take a dimmer view, pound still down nearly 20% against the Euro from pre-vote.
The pound goes up and down more than a prostitute's knickers. And nothing in reality ever seems to change, just the numbers.
The prices in the shops changed - the resulting inflation one of the reasons why Brit's are worse off.
Long term the decline is even more marked :-(
Funny, the stuff I buy seems to buy the same price.
Funny the stuff I buy - wine, olive oil, milk, butter, fish, oranges, PC components [...long list...] has all gone up, some of it a lot.
I buy most of those and they haven't.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
Yeh they went round in circles...
That they don't mind so much. It's leaping from atom to atom that pisses them off.
--
What's the difference between a naked white woman and a naked black woman?
One's on the cover of Playboy and the other's on the cover of National Geographic.
Yellow
2018-03-12 16:36:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 09:20:36 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there
No shit.
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.".
I know - but that is not the question I asked. Where is your proof this
is because they are not leaving the EU?
pamela
2018-03-12 18:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been
getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have
more money in their pocket because they are not leaving the
EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-
of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better
off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017
(including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion,
and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most
everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's
have less.
That proof is almost self-evident.

Brexiteers are now slipping into panic mode and have become more
resistant to facts which show they are wrong. They desperately
question anything which highlights the folly of leaving.

Yellow has often shown how he misunderstands probable cause and effect.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 19:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been
getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have
more money in their pocket because they are not leaving the
EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-
of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better
off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017
(including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion,
and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most
everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's
have less.
That proof is almost self-evident.
Brexiteers are now slipping into panic mode and have become more
resistant to facts which show they are wrong. They desperately
question anything which highlights the folly of leaving.
Yellow has often shown how he misunderstands probable cause and effect.
I voted Brexit and I'm not panicking. Show me something that should make me panic.
--
TEACHER: Millie, give me a sentence starting with "I"
MILLIE: I is..
TEACHER: No, Millie ..... Always say, "I am"
MILLIE: All right... "I am the ninth letter of the alphabet"
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 21:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been
getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have
more money in their pocket because they are not leaving the
EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-
of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better
off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017
(including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion,
and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most
everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's
have less.
That proof is almost self-evident.
Brexiteers are now slipping into panic mode and have become more
resistant to facts which show they are wrong. They desperately
question anything which highlights the folly of leaving.
Yellow has often shown how he misunderstands probable cause and effect.
I voted Brexit and I'm not panicking. Show me something that should make me panic.
There is nothing to make you panic, unless you run an export business or happen to be an EU citizen living and working in the UK, but there is certainly plenty that should be making you worried...
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 21:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been
getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have
more money in their pocket because they are not leaving the
EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-
of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
I wrote "by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better
off.". Despite six (of 28) countries getting poorer during 2017
(including the departing UK) I think it does prove my assertion,
and whilst not causal it strongly suggests in real terms that most
everybody in the EU has more money in their pocket, while Brit's
have less.
That proof is almost self-evident.
Brexiteers are now slipping into panic mode and have become more
resistant to facts which show they are wrong. They desperately
question anything which highlights the folly of leaving.
Yellow has often shown how he misunderstands probable cause and effect.
I voted Brexit and I'm not panicking. Show me something that should make me panic.
There is nothing to make you panic, unless you run an export business or happen to be an EU citizen living and working in the UK, but there is certainly plenty that should be making you worried...
I don't care for either of those people. Anyway they can export to the real world instead of the silly little EU club.
--
Do infants have as much fun in their infancy as adults do in adultery?
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 16:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there
No shit.
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Interestingly by contrast the rest of the EU has been getting better off.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the EU are have more money
in their pocket because they are not leaving the EU.
Well here we are: -
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264605/development-of-real-wages-in-eu-countries/
That does not provide the proof I requested.
Apparently I requested it. He's not all there.
--
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. -- Mark Twain
tim...
2018-03-12 16:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit

tim
Fredxx
2018-03-12 17:52:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson > >
Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James > >
o'Brien's
Post by Yellow
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed > > >> on The
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after >
Remoaner
Post by Yellow
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of > > >
Brexiteers, I
Post by Ian Jackson
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really >
thought
Post by Ian Jackson
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it costs me
and > > > my
Post by Ian Jackson
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer.  I haven't noticed the slightest difference
after > > Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the whole >
population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less money
in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and more tellingly
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
And while the economy has a relationship with wages, it's not a given
that 0.6% increase in the economy means a similar increase in wages.
pamela
2018-03-12 18:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
In message
Yellow
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them
really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it
costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest
difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the
whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less
money in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a
year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-
economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league and more tellingly
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
tim
Conversely, you cannot prove that's not because of Brexit.

The UK have never been in such a poor ranking position before and
something caused it to happen. Our fall came after the vote for
Brexit and, in the absence of anything more likely, Brexit would be
the cause.

Has anyone proved otherwise?
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 19:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 12 March 2018 00:39:43 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:03:49 -0000, Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
In message
Yellow
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
While I have a rather poor opinion of the die-hardest of Brexiteers, I
really cannot bring myself to believe that any of them really thought
they might be worse off when the voted to leave (despite brave, bold
statements like "At any cost" and "I don't care if it
costs me and my
family their jobs").
We aren't poorer. I haven't noticed the slightest
difference after Brexit.
You as an individual might not be, but on average over the
whole population [of the UK] yes we are.
Prove it. Prove that, on average, people in the UK are have less
money in their pocket because we are due to leave the EU in a
year's time.
I can't prove the future before we get there, however
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-
economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league and more tellingly
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
tim
Conversely, you cannot prove that's not because of Brexit.
The UK have never been in such a poor ranking position before and
something caused it to happen. Our fall came after the vote for
Brexit and, in the absence of anything more likely, Brexit would be
the cause.
Has anyone proved otherwise?
My car battery has less power in it just after starting the car, therefore starting my car will make my car battery go flat. Er.... no. Initial conditions do not equal the final outcome.
--
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal condition.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-12 20:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
As predicted, if it becomes obvious that things are not going too well
for the UK, it will have absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with
Brexit. The most likely reason is that it will be a result of Remoaners
talking the country down - or maybe simply sheer coincidence.
--
Ian
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 21:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
As predicted, if it becomes obvious that things are not going too well
for the UK, it will have absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with
Brexit. The most likely reason is that it will be a result of Remoaners
talking the country down - or maybe simply sheer coincidence.
It just won't be known why. What's your flimsy point?
--
You can make a signature quote seem authoritative by attributing it to a famous person. -- Sun Tzu
tim...
2018-03-12 22:39:46 UTC
Permalink
writes
Post by tim...
you cannot prove that's because of Brexit
As predicted, if it becomes obvious that things are not going too well for
the UK, it will have absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Brexit. The
most likely reason is that it will be a result of Remoaners talking the
country down - or maybe simply sheer coincidence.
Yes, it's the sheer coincidence that the UK has been miles ahead of rEU for
the previous 7 years and that they just happened to catch up this year.

tim
--
Ian
n***@gmail.com
2018-03-12 19:43:13 UTC
Permalink
Whatever is happening now is happening while we are full members of the EU. We haven't left yet. So, blame the EU and the irrational acts of speculators.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 19:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@gmail.com
Whatever is happening now is happening while we are full members of the EU. We haven't left yet. So, blame the EU and the irrational acts of speculators.
+1
--
You can ship a 40 lb child UPS 2nd day air for around $60.00, but don't forget the air holes.
pensive hamster
2018-03-12 20:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@gmail.com
Whatever is happening now is happening while we are full members of the EU. We haven't left yet. So, blame the EU and the irrational acts of speculators.
What leads you to think speculators are necessarily irrational?

It may be that some of them are slightly irrational sometimes,
but I doubt irrationality is a good long-term investment strategy.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 21:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by n***@gmail.com
Whatever is happening now is happening while we are full members of the EU. We haven't left yet. So, blame the EU and the irrational acts of speculators.
What leads you to think speculators are necessarily irrational?
It may be that some of them are slightly irrational sometimes,
but I doubt irrationality is a good long-term investment strategy.
Wanting to stay in a silly little club is totally irrational.
--
The Red Cross just knocked on my door and asked if we could contribute towards the floods in Lebanon.
I said we'd love to, but our garden hose only reaches the driveway.
MM
2018-03-12 10:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers, spent
a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons, and in so
doing they will most likely have considered what it ~might~ mean to
their personal finances as well as the political implications of
leaving or staying.

However, YOU obviously gave no thought to anything beforehand, either
positive or negative.

MM
tim...
2018-03-12 10:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed on The
Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner after Remoaner
claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers, spent
a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons,
Utter nonsense

The average Remainer spent no more time weighing up pro and cons than
Leavers did

They just voted for whichever soundbite grabbed them the most

tim
pamela
2018-03-12 14:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:34:22 -0000, Yellow
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed
on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner
after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers,
spent a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons,
Utter nonsense
The average Remainer spent no more time weighing up pro and cons
than Leavers did
They just voted for whichever soundbite grabbed them the most
tim
Too many Leavers were motivated by a false promises of financial
benefits, a dislike of Cameron's government, decades of fake
newspaper stories about what the EU did, and hopes of fewer
foreigners.

Remainers were more motivated by day to day observations of the
benefits the EU brought to the country.
tim...
2018-03-12 16:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by tim...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:34:22 -0000, Yellow
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed
on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner
after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers,
spent a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons,
Utter nonsense
The average Remainer spent no more time weighing up pro and cons
than Leavers did
They just voted for whichever soundbite grabbed them the most
tim
Too many Leavers were motivated by a false promises of financial
benefits, a dislike of Cameron's government, decades of fake
newspaper stories about what the EU did, and hopes of fewer
foreigners.
Remainers were more motivated by day to day observations of the
benefits the EU brought to the country.
or the (AIH unjustified) fear of the immediate recession and the punishment
budget if they voted out

There really were people who voted remain because of this - you cannot
discount them

tim
pamela
2018-03-12 12:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed
on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner
after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers,
spent a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons, and
in so doing they will most likely have considered what it ~might~
mean to their personal finances as well as the political
implications of leaving or staying.
However, YOU obviously gave no thought to anything beforehand,
either positive or negative.
MM
Leave had too many idealistic fairy-tale notions of what Brexit would
bring.

Such dreamers are now waking up to see it's hard, if not impossible,
for Britain to be better off financially outside the EU than in it.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-12 13:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was discussed
on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of Remoaner
after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers,
spent a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons, and
in so doing they will most likely have considered what it ~might~
mean to their personal finances as well as the political
implications of leaving or staying.
However, YOU obviously gave no thought to anything beforehand,
either positive or negative.
MM
Leave had too many idealistic fairy-tale notions of what Brexit would
bring.
Such dreamers are now waking up to see it's hard, if not impossible,
for Britain to be better off financially outside the EU than in it.
That's the Good News.

The Bad News is that even the realisation of reality won't make them
change their minds.
--
Ian
pamela
2018-03-12 14:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by pamela
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:34:22 -0000, Yellow
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:06:57 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
My brow is a little higher than that and in fact it was
discussed on The Daily Politics last week where we saw film of
Remoaner after Remoaner claim that "no one voted to be poorer".
Perhaps I did, how would they know?
What people mean when they say this is that they, the remainers,
spent a bit of time beforehand, weighing up the pros and cons,
and in so doing they will most likely have considered what it
~might~ mean to their personal finances as well as the political
implications of leaving or staying.
However, YOU obviously gave no thought to anything beforehand,
either positive or negative.
MM
Leave had too many idealistic fairy-tale notions of what Brexit
would bring.
Such dreamers are now waking up to see it's hard, if not
impossible, for Britain to be better off financially outside the
EU than in it.
That's the Good News.
The Bad News is that even the realisation of reality won't make
them change their minds.
Many Remain MPs were railroaded into supporting Brexit but as the
process goes through Parliament they may find their backbone and
follow Anna Soubry in standing up for they genuinely believe is
best.
JNugent
2018-03-11 01:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer, even if they agree with his reasoning they rarely concede
that they might have made a mistake - and say they would vote in exactly
the same way again.
I can recall vox-pops (mainly on TV news) where the view was expressed
that even if GDP were to fall by a few percent, and if incomes
effectively fell by that amount of purchasing power, that was acceptable
as the price for getting out of the EU.
tim...
2018-03-11 09:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when he
points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them being
poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?

In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?

and how does he *show* it to them?

tim
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 10:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but,
when he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in
them being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms,
in relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred
bogus meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in
discussions. If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
--
Ian
tim...
2018-03-11 10:53:02 UTC
Permalink
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.

If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.

tim
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 12:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but,
when he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result
in them being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute
terms, in relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's
preferred bogus meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in
discussions. If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble
assuming that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like
Cameroon did.
That's sad - but at least you have the consolation that you are not the
only Brexiteer who seems to prefer to avoid any pro-remain information
(even if it's only so you can have a jolly good laugh at how silly it is
to you).

As you know, although I don't assiduously seek it out, I am interested
in hearing ALL pro- and anti-Brexit material. In particular, I like
listening to Nigel Farage* being taken down a peg by a Remain in-phoner,
and James o'Brien when he gets a Brexiteer to admit that he didn't
foresee the problems that Brexit looks increasingly like creating.
* Actually, NF often talks quite a lot of sense - but he don't half tell
some outrageous porkies at times!
--
Ian
tim...
2018-03-11 15:46:38 UTC
Permalink
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms,
in relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in
discussions. If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble
assuming that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like
Cameroon did.
That's sad - but at least you have the consolation that you are not the
only Brexiteer who seems to prefer to avoid any pro-remain information
I'm quite happy to "hear" it

I'm just not going to listen to some numpty running a phone in to get it

tim
Yellow
2018-03-11 13:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.

His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.

Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 14:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
While occasionally there ARE times when I'm mentally screaming at the
radio for him to shut up and let the caller present his case, he is
generally one of the least offenders in this respect. By far the worst
is Nick Ferrari. He has a vastly over-inflated opinion about his
interviewing skills, and I often wonder why more callers don't simply
put the phone down on him (especially those who were probably asked by
LBC to give 'expert opinion'). In contrast, J o'B is usually quite
benign, and lets the caller paint himself into a corner without any
undue harassment. Most of the Youtube videos are like this.
Post by Yellow
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
I would say 'puzzlement' and 'frustration' (albeit probably largely
feigned) rather than 'contempt'.
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-03-11 14:14:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 14:04:59 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
While occasionally there ARE times when I'm mentally screaming at the
radio for him to shut up and let the caller present his case, he is
generally one of the least offenders in this respect. By far the worst
is Nick Ferrari. He has a vastly over-inflated opinion about his
interviewing skills, and I often wonder why more callers don't simply
put the phone down on him (especially those who were probably asked by
LBC to give 'expert opinion'). In contrast, J o'B is usually quite
benign, and lets the caller paint himself into a corner without any
undue harassment. Most of the Youtube videos are like this.
Post by Yellow
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
I would say 'puzzlement' and 'frustration' (albeit probably largely
feigned) rather than 'contempt'.
But part of grown-up life should be realising that other people have
different views and accepting that that is OK.

This is why I could never be a full-blooded socialist as it is very much
a trait that their opinion is the only opinion and not to share it
simply makes you wrong - and O'Brien is a perfect example.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 16:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
But part of grown-up life should be realising that other people have
different views and accepting that that is OK.
This is why I could never be a full-blooded socialist as it is very much
a trait that their opinion is the only opinion and not to share it
simply makes you wrong - and O'Brien is a perfect example.
Why on earth should you stereotype 'socialists' as being the sort of
people who think that "their opinion is the only opinion, and not to
share it simply makes you wrong"?

I'd say that you were not a very good judge of people's personalities -
especially if you've not done much listening to them, and over a long
period.

When you think about it, almost everybody who has a firm opinion about
something will feel that those who don't agree with it are wrong. That's
not to say that they can't concede that they might be wrong, and the
others might be right - but at the time when they are of a certain
opinion, anything contrary to that opinion must be considered by them to
be wrong (even if it later turns out to be right).
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-03-11 17:55:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:21:07 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
But part of grown-up life should be realising that other people have
different views and accepting that that is OK.
This is why I could never be a full-blooded socialist as it is very much
a trait that their opinion is the only opinion and not to share it
simply makes you wrong - and O'Brien is a perfect example.
Why on earth should you stereotype 'socialists' as being the sort of
people
It is my experience. Fat people eat too much, pretty people find it
easier to get work than ugly people, very left wing folk think only
their world view is correct while very right wing people do not give a
fig what other people think of their views.

There are always exceptions but a decent rules of thumb.
Post by Ian Jackson
who think that "their opinion is the only opinion, and not to
share it simply makes you wrong"?
I'd say that you were not a very good judge of people's personalities -
especially if you've not done much listening to them, and over a long
period.
As I said, very left wing people think their view is the only view, and
that they are always right.

They tend to use phrases like "stupid" and "racist" and "if you listened
you would understand that I am right" too. They also have a tendency to
try and shut down debate by calling people with different opinions
"fascists" - which is an interesting irony.

Rules of thumb, but the more extreme people are in their opinions the
more my rule seems to hold true.
Post by Ian Jackson
When you think about it, almost everybody who has a firm opinion about
something will feel that those who don't agree with it are wrong.
I agree - I have a few of these. The death penalty is one for example.

But that does *not* mean I am not prepared to listen to other people's
opinion as discussion and hearing what other people think is extremely
important to my own opinion forming process.

I cannot see myself ever changing my position but that does not mean I
would try to shut down someone who is in favour.

Same with Brexit - I have my view but I am interested in the other side
of the argument and I will even go as far as saying I understand most of
it too.
Post by Ian Jackson
That's
not to say that they can't concede that they might be wrong, and the
others might be right - but at the time when they are of a certain
opinion, anything contrary to that opinion must be considered by them to
be wrong (even if it later turns out to be right).
The more left wing you go, the less they will try to see other people's
point of view - that is my experience.
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 14:04:59 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
While occasionally there ARE times when I'm mentally screaming at the
radio for him to shut up and let the caller present his case, he is
generally one of the least offenders in this respect. By far the worst
is Nick Ferrari. He has a vastly over-inflated opinion about his
interviewing skills, and I often wonder why more callers don't simply
put the phone down on him (especially those who were probably asked by
LBC to give 'expert opinion'). In contrast, J o'B is usually quite
benign, and lets the caller paint himself into a corner without any
undue harassment. Most of the Youtube videos are like this.
Post by Yellow
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
I would say 'puzzlement' and 'frustration' (albeit probably largely
feigned) rather than 'contempt'.
But part of grown-up life should be realising that other people have
different views and accepting that that is OK.
The left don't accept that others have that right.

That's it, in a nutshell, and is responsible for the whole "snowflake"
phenomemon.
Post by Yellow
This is why I could never be a full-blooded socialist as it is very much
a trait that their opinion is the only opinion and not to share it
simply makes you wrong - and O'Brien is a perfect example.
Exactly.
pamela
2018-03-11 19:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:53:02 -0000 tim...
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James
o'Brien's favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer -
but, when he points out why their OUT vote will almost
certainly result in them being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in
absolute terms, in relative terms after inflation or just the
Treasury's preferred bogus meaning of "less richer than you
might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in
discussions. If you're really interested, can find them on
Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my
bubble assuming that he used the discredited bogus treasure
figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just
bullies them.
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather
than listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon
it he counters everything they have to say so they end discussing
his opinion of what they have to say instead.
While occasionally there ARE times when I'm mentally screaming at
the radio for him to shut up and let the caller present his case,
he is generally one of the least offenders in this respect. By far
the worst is Nick Ferrari. He has a vastly over-inflated opinion
about his interviewing skills, and I often wonder why more callers
don't simply put the phone down on him (especially those who were
probably asked by LBC to give 'expert opinion'). In contrast, J
o'B is usually quite benign, and lets the caller paint himself
into a corner without any undue harassment. Most of the Youtube
videos are like this.
That's true. James O'Brien adopts an open minded attitude and he
asks polite pertinent questions of his often bigotted interviewees
and callers.

He's an accomplished radio host and doesn't rave like Nick Ferrari
nor speak rudely to his interviewees or callers in order to provoke
an outraged response from them like some do.

These days he deals mainly with Brexit bigots and is probably
disliked for cutting them down to size.
Post by Ian Jackson
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as
you learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share
his world view.
I would say 'puzzlement' and 'frustration' (albeit probably
largely feigned) rather than 'contempt'.
In a way, O'Brien is like polite but puzzled Louis Theroux who also
nudges his interviewees into getting hoist by their own petards.
tim...
2018-03-11 15:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
as I suspected.
Post by Yellow
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
So Ian's original claim that he "shows" them that they will be worse off, is
false

all he does is continually assert that they will be, with zero proof

Thought as much!

tim
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 16:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer -
but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result
in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like
Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
as I suspected.
Post by Yellow
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
So Ian's original claim that he "shows" them that they will be worse
off, is false
all he does is continually assert that they will be, with zero proof
Thought as much!
J o'B doesn't really 'assert' things. He simply gives examples of where
we are likely to be disadvantaged by being outside the EU - things that
the caller doesn't really disagree with.

Of course, the caller may well point to areas where we are likely to be
better off - but apart from parroting the usual generalities (like "We
will able to make our own laws"), he can rarely give any substantive
reasons why what he has just agreed with is wrong.

However, I see no point in constantly having try to explain these things
to you. I'm not obsessed with listening to J o'B - and I probably hear
less of him than I do of many of the other LBC phone-in hosts (including
Nigel Farage). All I can suggest is that you have a look at some of the
J o'B phone-ins - and if you disagree with what is being said, come back
and tell us why.
--
Ian
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
Correct.

He got the sack from the BBC for the same thing.
Post by Yellow
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
He's a bullying turd.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 17:06:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
Correct.
He got the sack from the BBC for the same thing.
Not really. He's a firm Remainer, and it was his impartiality that was
being questioned.
Post by JNugent
Post by Yellow
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
He's a bullying turd.
There occasions where he does get a bit assertive - but not often.
--
Ian
JNugent
2018-03-11 17:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he  points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in
them
being  poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
 I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
Correct.
He got the sack from the BBC for the same thing.
Not really. He's a firm Remainer, and it was his impartiality that was
being questioned.
That's what I said.
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
His technique is generally to push them into a corner and rather than
listen to what they have to say and get them to expand upon it he
counters everything they have to say so they end discussing his opinion
of what they have to say instead.
 Only listened a few times because it is an utter waste of time as you
learn little about what people think and why they think it and
everything about O'Brien's contempt for people who do not share his
world view.
He's a bullying turd.
There occasions where he does get a bit assertive - but not often.
Yellow
2018-03-11 18:00:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 17:06:09 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
writes
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
You appear to be replying to a thread about one of James o'Brien's
favourite questions.
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer - but, when
he points out why their OUT vote will almost certainly result in them
being poorer,
So what sort of person does he claim will be poorer?
In what way does he claim they will be poorer (i.e. in absolute terms, in
relative terms after inflation or just the Treasury's preferred bogus
meaning of "less richer than you might have been")?
and how does he *show* it to them?
You would need to listen to some of James o'Brien's phone-in discussions.
If you're really interested, can find them on Youtube.
Nope, not the slightest bit interested in listening.
If no one is going to explain it to me I shall remain in my bubble assuming
that he used the discredited bogus treasure figures, just like Cameroon did.
I'll save you the bother of listening - in a nutshell, he just bullies
them.
Correct.
He got the sack from the BBC for the same thing.
Not really. He's a firm Remainer, and it was his impartiality that was
being questioned.
O?Brien said: "Because my beliefs expressed on other media that Brexit
will be bad for Britain and that Donald Trump is a racist sex offender
started receiving so much attention that I had to choose between winding
my neck in on those two issues or not presenting BBC political
programmes."
Paul Cummins
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
I doubt if many Brexiteers deliberately voted to be poorer
I think the last three words were superfluous.

People do realise, I assume, that on the day after the vote, the most
googled term by Brexiteers was "what is the EU"
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
====
Visit North Kent's 2nd biggest supplier of Sour Grapes
http://www.grapesdirect.co.uk
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-11 10:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".

Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage [and said so] in return for being able to impose racist immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British people buying cheaper imported goods etc.

OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the [EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against the [doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.



* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Vidcapper
2018-03-11 11:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage [and
said so] in return for being able to impose racist immigration
policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British people buying
cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a better
tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even got to
decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the [EU] pile
to the bottom, pound at near record lows against the [doomed*] Euro,
large lay offs every other day etc.
More bullshit in that statement than in the campaign itself!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-11 13:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage [and
said so] in return for being able to impose racist immigration
policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British people buying
cheaper imported goods etc.
and some where so bold as to say this was "a price worth paying in" this group.
Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a better
tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS.
I am not bothering to post a link to this one - EVERY sighted person in the UK must have seen the bus, those who didn't would have heard Boris claim it on the radio.
Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
We have not even got to
decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the [EU] pile
to the bottom,
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league
and behind a pay wall "Britain sinks to bottom of G7 growth table"
https://www.ft.com/content/79d4c812-a4ee-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2
Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
pound at near record lows against the [doomed*] Euro,
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-EUR

about £1 = EU1.4 from the Euro's creation until Gordon Browne became prime minister, since then a brief rally before the referendum, 10% down on the result and for the last year around another 10% down at £1=EU1.1
Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
large lay offs every other day etc.
Maplin, ToysRUs, Tesco, Carrillion, Lagan, Countrywide and if you are hungry Byron Burger, Prezzo, Carlusio's and Jamie's Italian are all shutting restaurants. A Brexit bonanza for administrators and insolvency practitioners.
Post by Vidcapper
More bullshit in that statement than in the campaign itself!
So given the links above - just where was the bullshit other than in your response?
Post by Vidcapper
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
pamela
2018-03-11 13:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage
[and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even
got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the
[EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against the
[doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against
it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment which
Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.

This week we learned British financial services will not get
passported into Europe, which is going to astonish over 5,400
British financial firms who use it.

I think I heard (although I'm open to correction) Tusk saying on the
telly this week that the UK's main objective is to have a prosperous
and successful exit but that is not what the EU's main interest is.
The EU's gloves are coming off.

I wonder if chipper Nigel Farage might pop over to Donald Trump and
fix up some special relationship trade concessions for post-Brexit
before the Americans put up even more trade barriers. Ha ha.
Donald likes Nigel for his campaign support but he'll probably throw
Nigel and the UK under the bus if it suits him, just as he's
threatening to do to another early and enthusiastic campaign
supporter, Jeff Sessions.
tim...
2018-03-11 15:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage
[and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even
got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the
[EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against the
[doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against
it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment which
Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.
but the Remainers didn't see it ether

and for the umpteenth time This payment is NOT new money
Post by pamela
This week we learned British financial services will not get
passported into Europe, which is going to astonish over 5,400
British financial firms who use it.
No it's not. It been the expected result for ages
Post by pamela
I think I heard (although I'm open to correction) Tusk saying on the
telly this week that the UK's main objective is to have a prosperous
and successful exit but that is not what the EU's main interest is.
But it's not just down to him

the CoM can overrule him.

tim
pamela
2018-03-11 16:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage
[and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even
got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of
the [EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against
the [doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against
it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment which
Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.
but the Remainers didn't see it ether
and for the umpteenth time This payment is NOT new money
In fact you have made the same mistake for the umpteenth time. Your
mistake is based on wishful thinking. Can you cite where you're
getting the information that all this £40 billion is not new money?

Theresa May and pro-Brexit pundits had tried to soften the blow of
getting stung with the £40 billion bill by saying we would have had
to pay some of it anyway. However, this amount is calculated from
outstanding commitments and liabilities incuding EU pensions.
Because the UK has asked to stay close to the EU until 2020, there
will be some payment by the UK for this extra period but no one has
yet agreed it will be part of the £40 billion.

The final amount has not been agreed and £40 billion is only an
estimate. It had been closer to 90 billion Euros at first and may
drift that way again if the Eastern countries in the EU have their
way as they each have a veto over the terms of Brexit.
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
This week we learned British financial services will not get
passported into Europe, which is going to astonish over 5,400
British financial firms who use it.
No it's not. It been the expected result for ages
Perhaps you didn't see Theresa May discuss this with a perplexed
Andrew Marr this morning. No passporting for our financial services
had been feared for a long time and discussed openly by Remainers
but some people, like you, said it wouldn't happen. Oh dear. It
has. More mispalced Brexit optimism has just gone down the sink.

You also said the City would lose only a trivial amount of financial
business to EU27 countries from Brexit. Let's see.
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
I think I heard (although I'm open to correction) Tusk saying on
the telly this week that the UK's main objective is to have a
prosperous and successful exit but that is not what the EU's main
interest is.
But it's not just down to him
the CoM can overrule him.
tim
What probability do you calculate of that happening? Pretty slim I
imigaine. About as likely as pigs might fly. I suggest it's best
to stay anchored in the real world rather than rely on
infinitesimally small probabilities.
--
The wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car
tim...
2018-03-11 20:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage
[and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even
got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of
the [EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against
the [doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against
it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment which
Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.
but the Remainers didn't see it ether
and for the umpteenth time This payment is NOT new money
In fact you have made the same mistake for the umpteenth time. Your
mistake is based on wishful thinking. Can you cite where you're
getting the information that all this £40 billion is not new money?
it's to be paid out of the 15 billion per year that we already give the EU

all that happening is we are paying our "sub" whilst transitioning out
Post by pamela
Theresa May and pro-Brexit pundits had tried to soften the blow of
getting stung with the £40 billion bill by saying we would have had
to pay some of it anyway. However, this amount is calculated from
outstanding commitments and liabilities incuding EU pensions.
that's irrelevant
pamela
2018-03-11 21:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic
damage [and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not
even got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the
top of the [EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows
against the [doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day
etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down
against it since referendum day, what does that portend for
Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment
which Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.
but the Remainers didn't see it ether and for the umpteenth time
This payment is NOT new money
In fact you have made the same mistake for the umpteenth time.
Your mistake is based on wishful thinking. Can you cite where
you're getting the information that all this £40 billion is not
new money?
it's to be paid out of the 15 billion per year that we already
give the EU
all that happening is we are paying our "sub" whilst transitioning out
Can you please cite where it states that the £40 billion contains
only our normal membership contibutions.
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
Theresa May and pro-Brexit pundits had tried to soften the blow
of getting stung with the £40 billion bill by saying we would
have had to pay some of it anyway. However, this amount is
calculated from outstanding commitments and liabilities incuding
EU pensions. Because the UK has asked to stay close to the EU
until 2020, there will be some payment by the UK for this extra
period but no one has yet agreed it will be part of the £40
billion.
that's irrelevant
Perhaps you can also post a reference to where it says the UK will
not be paying for any outstanding commitments and liabilities.
Thank you.

Meanwhile this is what commentators have been observing:

"LONDON — Theresa May's cabinet has agreed to increase the UK's
financial offer to the European Union for the Brexit divorce bill
to £40 billion in an attempt to break the deadlock in
negotiations."

"Earlier in November, the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier
warned the UK it had two weeks to make clear its position on the
divorce bill in order to allow the possibility of talks moving on
to the question of the future EU-UK relationship."

"The UK's negotiating team will set out to the EU how they
believe the financial settlement should be calculated, which
reportedly will add £20 billion on top of the £20 billion May
indicated the UK will pay in her Florence speech."

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-cabinet-agrees-40-billion-b
rexit-divorce-bill-2017-11

The following extracts don't exactly sound like the money is for normal
business. There are dozens more like these quotes.

"the UK will agree to pay the sum - equivalent to €40 billion -
it if the EU agrees to negotiate the financial settlement as part
of a deal on future relations, including a trade deal."

Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP for North East Somerset, said: "There is no
logic to this figure, legally we owe nothing."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/05/uk-ready-pay-40bn-brexit-
bill-eu-talks-trade/

"The newspaper quoted a senior Whitehall source as saying the
EU’s position was that the fee should be 60 billion euro (£54
billion), but the 'actual bottom line' was 50 billion euro (£45
billion); the UK’s position was 30 billion euro (£27 billion) and
'the landing zone is 40 billion (£36 billion) even if the public
and politicians are not all there yet'. "

"The proposal would see Britain offer to make net payments to the
EU of some 10 billion a year for up to three years after Brexit
as a partial down-payment on a final 40 billion euro settlement.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4765398/Tory-Eurosceptics-
reject-pay-36bn-EU-divorce-bill.html
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:35:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Many Brextremists were quite happy to accept the economic damage
[and said so] in return for being able to impose racist
immigration policies, deport eastern Europeans, stop British
people buying cheaper imported goods etc.
OTOH about half the Leave voters were suckered by claims of a
better tomorrow and £358M a week for the NHS. We have not even
got to decree nisi and already we have slipped from the top of the
[EU] pile to the bottom, pound at near record lows against the
[doomed*] Euro, large lay offs every other day etc.
* if the Euro is doomed and the pound is nearly 20% down against
it since referendum day, what does that portend for Sterling?
Don't forget the socking great £40 billion divorce payment which
Brexiteers, blinded by their euphoria, didn't see coming.
No-one has ever suggested that the UK shouldn't pay what is due in
subscriptions up to the day we leave, or pension entitlement funds
pro-rata until the day we leave, etc.

The UK has never been a country to welsh out on contracts and agreements.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 17:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
No-one has ever suggested that the UK shouldn't pay what is due in
subscriptions up to the day we leave, or pension entitlement funds
pro-rata until the day we leave, etc.
The UK has never been a country to welsh out on contracts and agreements.
You really DO have to be joking! Lots of Brexiteers (including Nigel
Farage) keep on saying that there's no reason for us to pay a penny.
What did Boris say about whistling? He may have calmed down, and decided
that maybe we do have certain obligations - but there are many others
who still say we don't.
--
Ian
JNugent
2018-03-11 17:54:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
No-one has ever suggested that the UK shouldn't pay what is due in
subscriptions up to the day we leave, or pension entitlement funds
pro-rata until the day we leave, etc.
The UK has never been a country to welsh out on contracts and agreements.
You really DO have to be joking! Lots of Brexiteers (including Nigel
Farage) keep on saying that there's no reason for us to pay a penny.
I am sure that all they mean by that is that once the accounts have been
properly settled, there is no need to pay an extra "fine" or
"compensation" to the EU.

Still less any old figure the EU can dream up like a street-corner
gangster demanding a "toll".
Post by Ian Jackson
What did Boris say about whistling? He may have calmed down, and decided
that maybe we do have certain obligations - but there are many others
who still say we don't.
Boris has never suggested that we should not pay our properly-due bills.
Yellow
2018-03-11 18:13:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 17:14:52 +0000 Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
No-one has ever suggested that the UK shouldn't pay what is due in
subscriptions up to the day we leave, or pension entitlement funds
pro-rata until the day we leave, etc.
The UK has never been a country to welsh out on contracts and agreements.
You really DO have to be joking! Lots of Brexiteers (including Nigel
Farage) keep on saying that there's no reason for us to pay a penny.
But that is *not* what they have said (corner cases aside), is it?

What they have said however is that we should will pay what is owed but
only after the EU show what is owed rather than just demanding an
arbitrary sum.
Post by Ian Jackson
What did Boris say about whistling?
Let me help you out -

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has told MPs the European Union can "go
whistle" for any "extortionate" final payment from the UK on Brexit.

And he said that the government had "no plan" for what to do in the
event of no deal being agreed with the EU.

He said: "The sums I have seen that they propose to demand from this
country appear to be extortionate."

"Go whistle seems to me to be an entirely appropriate expression," he
added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123


Out of interest, how is that unreasonable?
Post by Ian Jackson
He may have calmed down, and decided that maybe we do have
certain obligations
He never said otherwise and I think the phrase I am grasping for is
"fake news".
Post by Ian Jackson
- but there are many others who still say we don't.
Who? Because I haven't heard this discussed for months.

Apart from people who phone into O'Brien's show of course.....
Yellow
2018-03-11 13:16:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 03:56:56 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Oh OK - the same place where it said "leave the Customs Union and Single
Market".

Got it. Thanks for your help.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-11 13:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 03:56:56 -0700 (PDT) R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
Where it said "Leave the European Union".
Oh OK - the same place where it said "leave the Customs Union and Single
Market".
as in European [customs] Union
Post by Yellow
Got it. Thanks for your help.
Glad you could work that out.
Vidcapper
2018-03-12 07:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
We voted to regain the right to make our own decisions, for good or ill.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Judith
2018-03-12 10:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
It was the YES box: tick if you want to leave the E&U and also wanted to be
poorer; problem was - it was not actually explained to people.
pamela
2018-03-12 12:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
It was the YES box: tick if you want to leave the E&U and also
wanted to be poorer; problem was - it was not actually explained
to people.
That's all the more reason to have another referendum to confirm the
British people actually want what gets negotiated.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-12 13:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by pamela
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
It was the YES box: tick if you want to leave the E&U and also
wanted to be poorer; problem was - it was not actually explained
to people.
That's all the more reason to have another referendum to confirm the
British people actually want what gets negotiated.
Unfortunately, regardless of all the evidence, and hoping that if you
wish hard enough the impossible is still attainable, many will still
stick to their principles and vote in exactly the same way.
--
Ian
n***@gmail.com
2018-03-12 13:44:16 UTC
Permalink
We had 100 days of incessant debate leading up to the referendum. Any reason why your lot didn't think to mention it? If it's true it's pretty dim of them don't you think?
Yellow
2018-03-12 14:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Where on the ballot paper was this box?
It was the YES box: tick if you want to leave the E&U and also wanted to be
poorer; problem was - it was not actually explained to people.
You mean the bit that also asked if we wanted to leave the Single Market
and Customs Union?
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