Discussion:
Legal Question - Drone Registration
(too old to reply)
Omega
2019-11-07 09:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Introduced a couple of days ago, ALL drone users in the UK must register
their craft if it weighs more than 250 grammes. Apparently we have 29
days since registering became law.

Upon registering, we are also required to take a knowledge test
regarding piloting these machines as well as be aware, where we may or
more to the point, *may not*, fly our craft. These tests may be taken
as many times as needed to pass and will be valid for three years where
the test must be taken again. The registration will be valid for one
year then must be registered again. There will be the fee to pay again.
Presumably more legislation will follow? Registration fee is £9 at
the moment, the test so far is free in with the registration fee. You
must pass the test before allowed to fly.

Upon reading the various information given out by government agencies,
in the main the CAA [UK], the requirement to register a drone appears to
suggest, only, "if you intend to fly a drone".

Their is no specific mention, as I can see, simply owning and not flying
a drone, will require registration?

The laws regarding flying these things around airfields are very strict
but having read over a few times 'other' requirements, my interpretation
of the laws, would rule out flying these things virtually anywhere
'urban' and extremely constrained anywhere else. Mustn't be flown
within 50 metres of people, buildings, trains, boats. Can't be flown in
public parks. The drone MUST be in sight of the pilot at all times, etc..

I'm very fortunate in that I have a very large garden, 50 metres long in
fact but can never fly my drone there, as too close to people and buildings.

To my question. If I intend to leave my drone under the bed and never
fly it, do I need to register it?

omega
Farmer Giles
2019-11-07 10:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omega
Introduced a couple of days ago, ALL drone users in the UK must register
their craft if it weighs more than 250 grammes.  Apparently we have 29
days since registering became law.
Upon registering, we are also required to take a knowledge test
regarding piloting these machines as well as be aware, where we may or
more to the point, *may not*, fly our craft.  These tests may be taken
as many times as needed to pass and will be valid for three years where
the test must be taken again.  The registration will be valid for one
year then must be registered again.  There will be the fee to pay again.
 Presumably more legislation will follow?  Registration fee is £9 at
the moment, the test so far is free in with the registration fee.  You
must pass the test before allowed to fly.
Upon reading the various information given out by government agencies,
in the main the CAA [UK], the requirement to register a drone appears to
suggest, only, "if you intend to fly a drone".
Their is no specific mention, as I can see, simply owning and not flying
a drone, will require registration?
The laws regarding flying these things around airfields are very strict
but having read over a few times 'other' requirements, my interpretation
of the laws, would rule out flying these things virtually anywhere
'urban' and extremely constrained anywhere else.  Mustn't be flown
within 50 metres of people, buildings, trains, boats.  Can't be flown in
public parks.  The drone MUST be in sight of the pilot at all times, etc..
I'm very fortunate in that I have a very large garden, 50 metres long in
fact but can never fly my drone there, as too close to people and buildings.
To my question.  If I intend to leave my drone under the bed and never
fly it, do I need to register it?
I wouldn't have thought so, but if you never intend to fly it why have one?
Mike Scott
2019-11-07 11:04:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Omega
Introduced a couple of days ago, ALL drone users in the UK must
register their craft if it weighs more than 250 grammes.  Apparently
we have 29 days since registering became law.
...
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Omega
To my question.  If I intend to leave my drone under the bed and never
fly it, do I need to register it?
I wouldn't have thought so, but if you never intend to fly it why have one?
I still have my unused for >35 years air frames in the loft, plus
engines and radio gear. After all the work that went into building them,
I can't bear to chuck them out. I doubt they're a problem; probably not
even airworthy now.


https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Our-role/Drone-and-model-aircraft-registration/

https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/
says:
"You do not need to pass the test or register if your drone or model
aircraft is less than 250g, or you’ll only fly indoors or in a securely
netted area. You must still follow the rules and regulations when you fly."
So a drone under the bed is fine.
--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
Ian Jackson
2019-11-07 15:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Scott
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Omega
Introduced a couple of days ago, ALL drone users in the UK must
register their craft if it weighs more than 250 grammes.  Apparently
we have 29 days since registering became law.
...
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Omega
To my question.  If I intend to leave my drone under the bed and
never fly it, do I need to register it?
I wouldn't have thought so, but if you never intend to fly it why have one?
I still have my unused for >35 years air frames in the loft, plus
engines and radio gear. After all the work that went into building
them, I can't bear to chuck them out. I doubt they're a problem;
probably not even airworthy now.
https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Our-role/Drone-and-mod
el-aircraft-registration/
https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/
"You do not need to pass the test or register if your drone or model
aircraft is less than 250g, or you’ll only fly indoors or in a
securely netted area. You must still follow the rules and regulations
when you fly."
So a drone under the bed is fine.
I did wonder if and when the knock-on effects of the criminal activities
of Extinction Rebellion would start to affect flying model aircraft.

The new laws are bound to have a significant effect on youngsters (and
even oldsters) 'getting into' the hobby of aeromodelling.

I started at the age of 10, and gave it up when I was around 16. [I
never got into radio control which, in those far-off days, was much more
DIY and rudimentary than it is today. My efforts were limited to
free-flight models (both gliders and with small diesel engines) and to
control line.]

I don't really know whether the new restrictions and requirements are
draconian or not - and whether what I did as a matter-of-course would
now require me to register and pass a test. I suppose some of my larger
models might have exceeded the 250g threshold.

I do wonder how many youngsters will now be deterred by the new laws (or
by their parents) from becoming aeromodellers - and if, as a result,
fewer will go on to take up careers (say) in the aerospace industry, or
in the RAF. I suppose this will all be dismissed as yet just another
inconvenience - one that we will have to suffer and put up with in order
that we can continue to enjoy our (albeit ever-decreasing) freedom from
the tyranny of the few.
--
Ian
Mike Scott
2019-11-07 16:39:20 UTC
Permalink
On 07/11/2019 15:35, Ian Jackson wrote:
....
Post by Ian Jackson
I do wonder how many youngsters will now be deterred by the new laws (or
by their parents) from becoming aeromodellers - and if, as a result,
fewer will go on to take up careers (say) in the aerospace industry, or
in the RAF. I suppose this will all be dismissed as yet just another
inconvenience - one that we will have to suffer and put up with in order
that we can continue to enjoy our (albeit ever-decreasing) freedom from
the tyranny of the few.
Interesting thought. It would be a shame to kill off a hobby for
non-existent protection against a real threat. It used to be a real DIY,
semi-engineering learning experience, while these days you just buy 'em
off the shelf and miss the best bit.

But I wonder how it'll be policed.... a policeman at every model flying
area? Or maybe they'll mostly ignore the rules, but throw the book at
anyone that annoys the PTB.

It occurs to me the Act doesn't seem to distinguish between free-flight
and radio-controlled models, and the flying rules are worded as if
models are all controlled. Hmm.
--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
Martin Brown
2019-11-07 17:39:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Scott
....
Post by Ian Jackson
I do wonder how many youngsters will now be deterred by the new laws
(or by their parents) from becoming aeromodellers - and if, as a
result, fewer will go on to take up careers (say) in the aerospace
industry, or in the RAF. I suppose this will all be dismissed as yet
just another inconvenience - one that we will have to suffer and put
up with in order that we can continue to enjoy our (albeit
ever-decreasing) freedom from the tyranny of the few.
Interesting thought. It would be a shame to kill off a hobby for
non-existent protection against a real threat. It used to be a real DIY,
semi-engineering learning experience, while these days you just buy 'em
off the shelf and miss the best bit.
The hobby was partly killed off in the past since despite modellers
paying for a license for the 27MHz model band the authorities could not
be arsed to police it and allowed powerful illegal CB radios to destroy
the hobby during the 1970's. Eventually a new frequency was allocated.
Post by Mike Scott
But I wonder how it'll be policed.... a policeman at every model flying
area? Or maybe they'll mostly ignore the rules, but throw the book at
anyone that annoys the PTB.
I suspect the latter. I can't see any self respecting criminal
registering their drug mule drone with the authorities - can you?
Post by Mike Scott
It occurs to me the Act doesn't seem to distinguish between free-flight
and radio-controlled models, and the flying rules are worded as if
models are all controlled. Hmm.
They explicitly let off line flying where you have a control line and
fly round in a circle. Used to be popular for dog fights when I was
young. If things went wrong one plane could cut the control lines of the
other and it would head off into the crowd. They were supposed to score
by chopping pieces off the towed tissue paper tail of their opponents plane.

I wonder where owners of rubber band powered >250g balsa plane models
stand? When young I cut my modelling teeth on such planes repairing it
from time to time after it hit trees or plunged into the ground.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Graham.
2019-11-07 22:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Mike Scott
....
Post by Ian Jackson
I do wonder how many youngsters will now be deterred by the new laws
(or by their parents) from becoming aeromodellers - and if, as a
result, fewer will go on to take up careers (say) in the aerospace
industry, or in the RAF. I suppose this will all be dismissed as yet
just another inconvenience - one that we will have to suffer and put
up with in order that we can continue to enjoy our (albeit
ever-decreasing) freedom from the tyranny of the few.
Interesting thought. It would be a shame to kill off a hobby for
non-existent protection against a real threat. It used to be a real DIY,
semi-engineering learning experience, while these days you just buy 'em
off the shelf and miss the best bit.
The hobby was partly killed off in the past since despite modellers
paying for a license for the 27MHz model band the authorities could not
be arsed to police it and allowed powerful illegal CB radios to destroy
the hobby during the 1970's. Eventually a new frequency was allocated.
Post by Mike Scott
But I wonder how it'll be policed.... a policeman at every model flying
area? Or maybe they'll mostly ignore the rules, but throw the book at
anyone that annoys the PTB.
I suspect the latter. I can't see any self respecting criminal
registering their drug mule drone with the authorities - can you?
Post by Mike Scott
It occurs to me the Act doesn't seem to distinguish between free-flight
and radio-controlled models, and the flying rules are worded as if
models are all controlled. Hmm.
They explicitly let off line flying where you have a control line and
fly round in a circle. Used to be popular for dog fights when I was
young. If things went wrong one plane could cut the control lines of the
other and it would head off into the crowd. They were supposed to score
by chopping pieces off the towed tissue paper tail of their opponents plane.
I wonder where owners of rubber band powered >250g balsa plane models
stand? When young I cut my modelling teeth on such planes repairing it
from time to time after it hit trees or plunged into the ground.
When I was a lad my dad and I made kites and flew them in Heaton Park.
The "string" was linen button-thread from my Grandfathers raincoat
factory, we had many reels of it on a handheld winch made from
blockboard and steel 1/4 in pipe. The kite must have been 5ft long and
just a spec in the sky when fully deployed. It was stabilised with a
half-brick at the end of the tail. We always drew a crowd when we
flew it.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%
Mike Scott
2019-11-08 09:37:59 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Mike Scott
Interesting thought. It would be a shame to kill off a hobby for
non-existent protection against a real threat. It used to be a real
DIY, semi-engineering learning experience, while these days you just
buy 'em off the shelf and miss the best bit.
The hobby was partly killed off in the past since despite modellers
paying for a license for the 27MHz model band the authorities could not
Paying? I don't recall that. Maybe a different period to when I was
active, or maybe memory is hazy after all this time.
Post by Martin Brown
be arsed to police it and allowed powerful illegal CB radios to destroy
the hobby during the 1970's. Eventually a new frequency was allocated.
Post by Mike Scott
But I wonder how it'll be policed.... a policeman at every model
flying area? Or maybe they'll mostly ignore the rules, but throw the
book at anyone that annoys the PTB.
I suspect the latter. I can't see any self respecting criminal
registering their drug mule drone with the authorities - can you?
I see a Pythonesque sketch appearing there.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Mike Scott
It occurs to me the Act doesn't seem to distinguish between
free-flight and radio-controlled models, and the flying rules are
worded as if models are all controlled. Hmm.
They explicitly let off line flying where you have a control line and
fly round in a circle. Used to be popular for dog fights when I was
More precisely, I think the web site says the CAA "will issue" an
exemption for them. One of those things that just might fall down the
cracks.
Post by Martin Brown
young. If things went wrong one plane could cut the control lines of the
other and it would head off into the crowd. They were supposed to score
by chopping pieces off the towed tissue paper tail of their opponents plane.
I did have a couple of CL models. Never indulged in combat flying though.
Post by Martin Brown
I wonder where owners of rubber band powered >250g balsa plane models
stand? When young I cut my modelling teeth on such planes repairing it
from time to time after it hit trees or plunged into the ground.
That's quite a heavy model for rubber power. The lighter ones I'd had
were fun - I remember hands covered in rubber lubricant; delightfully
messy for a kid :-}
--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
Graham.
2019-11-09 00:25:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Scott
Post by Martin Brown
The hobby was partly killed off in the past since despite modellers
paying for a license for the 27MHz model band the authorities could not
Paying? I don't recall that. Maybe a different period to when I was
active, or maybe memory is hazy after all this time.
Oh yes, and if that wasn't Draconian enough, you needed a second
licence for your metal detector.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%
Martin Brown
2019-11-07 11:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omega
Introduced a couple of days ago, ALL drone users in the UK must register
their craft if it weighs more than 250 grammes.  Apparently we have 29
days since registering became law.
Upon registering, we are also required to take a knowledge test
regarding piloting these machines as well as be aware, where we may or
more to the point, *may not*, fly our craft.  These tests may be taken
as many times as needed to pass and will be valid for three years where
the test must be taken again.  The registration will be valid for one
year then must be registered again.  There will be the fee to pay again.
I presume there must already be some hastily passed and ill thought out
legislation. It is abundantly clear that the bad guys will NOT bother to
register their kit with the authorities and the whole thing will be an
exercise in futility to be seen to be "doing something" about drones.
Post by Omega
 Presumably more legislation will follow?  Registration fee is £9 at
the moment, the test so far is free in with the registration fee.  You
must pass the test before allowed to fly.
Upon reading the various information given out by government agencies,
in the main the CAA [UK], the requirement to register a drone appears to
suggest, only, "if you intend to fly a drone".
Their is no specific mention, as I can see, simply owning and not flying
a drone, will require registration?
How will they ever know if all you ever do is keep it under the bed?
(unless you come to their attention for something else)

I expect like with TVs if you buy a new one from a reputable dealer
after the cut-off date they will demand proof of ID and address. I can't
see the bad guys using the black market suppliers doing that either.
Post by Omega
The laws regarding flying these things around airfields are very strict
but having read over a few times 'other' requirements, my interpretation
of the laws, would rule out flying these things virtually anywhere
'urban' and extremely constrained anywhere else.  Mustn't be flown
within 50 metres of people, buildings, trains, boats.  Can't be flown in
public parks.  The drone MUST be in sight of the pilot at all times, etc..
The latter condition could easily be broken by an ill placed tree and a
pre programmed flight path. The rules have not been thought through.
Post by Omega
I'm very fortunate in that I have a very large garden, 50 metres long in
fact but can never fly my drone there, as too close to people and buildings.
To my question.  If I intend to leave my drone under the bed and never
fly it, do I need to register it?
You would have to look at the law in detail.

It could be like with CB radios where despite the fact that they
trampled all over the license paying 27MHz RC model frequencies causing
model aircraft (some as large as 6' wingspan) to crash the authorities
did nothing about it. Eventually giving the aircraft model makers a new
frequency but remaining entirely laissez faire about dealers selling
powerful CB kit in the UK that it was illegal to actually use.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
nightjar
2019-11-07 16:50:35 UTC
Permalink
On 07/11/2019 09:39, Omega wrote:
...
Post by Omega
The laws regarding flying these things around airfields are very strict
but having read over a few times 'other' requirements, my interpretation
of the laws, would rule out flying these things virtually anywhere
'urban' and extremely constrained anywhere else.  Mustn't be flown
within 50 metres of people, buildings, trains, boats.  Can't be flown in
public parks.  The drone MUST be in sight of the pilot at all times, etc...
Sounds like a cut down version of the rules for flying almost any aircraft.
--
Colin Bignell
Loading...