Discussion:
Anyine taken a garage to court?
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The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 08:35:37 UTC
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I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and
they have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has
play in it.

I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this
was the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.

I am not sure how to proceed, Assuming that this ends up in the small
claims court I am conscious of the need to proceed with caution. Should
I insist that they fix it? I am concerned that I am using a car that may
damage itself further if driven with an out of balance prop shaft. Or
should I get it fixed elsewhere, and claim the money back? The cost of
doing that ranges from a new 'spider bearing' at £36 plus labour through
an after market prop shaft assembly at £100 plus labour to a full Land
Rover OEM part at £200+ plus labour at main dealer prices.

My question is really how the court would look on each approach. I.e.
should I fix it and claim and if so at what level? Or should I take them
to court before fixing it so they have the option of fixing it for free?
And to what level should the (pretty old) car be fixed?

TIA
--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.
AlexK
2019-10-08 08:44:59 UTC
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Permalink
I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and they
have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has play in
it.
I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this was
the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.
I am not sure how to proceed, Assuming that this ends up in the small
claims court I am conscious of the need to proceed with caution. Should I
insist that they fix it? I am concerned that I am using a car that may
damage itself further if driven with an out of balance prop shaft. Or
should I get it fixed elsewhere, and claim the money back? The cost of
doing that ranges from a new 'spider bearing' at £36 plus labour through
an after market prop shaft assembly at £100 plus labour to a full Land
Rover OEM part at £200+ plus labour at main dealer prices.
My question is really how the court would look on each approach. I.e.
should I fix it and claim and if so at what level? Or should I take them
to court before fixing it so they have the option of fixing it for free?
That’s what I would do. They might well choose to do that once
they realise that you will be taking it to the small claims court.
And to what level should the (pretty old) car be fixed?
It should always be fixed at the sort of prices that you have listed.
Peeler
2019-10-08 09:06:41 UTC
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Permalink
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 19:44:59 +1100, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
Post by AlexK
It should always be fixed at the sort of prices that you have listed.
You senile head needs fixing, you obnoxious senile pest from Oz!
--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$***@sqwertz.com>
Jethro_uk
2019-10-08 09:14:28 UTC
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Permalink
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks
(IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 10:17:14 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks
(IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he
never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual issues
dire warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake, that’s all. Of
course he insists 'it was like that before I started' It wasn't.
Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and drove straight
back into the garage.




IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know.
The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my
position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get another
garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy
Jethro_uk
2019-10-08 10:53:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks
(IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he
never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual issues
dire warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake, that’s all. Of
course he insists 'it was like that before I started' It wasn't.
Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and drove straight
back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left you
in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know.
The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my
position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get another
garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?

All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in a
court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you have
exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't they can
strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the classic #1
mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons before anything
else, which no court likes.

So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn up
in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a chance
to make good the problem.

Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and setting
out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails to address
the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight flit away from
their last customer at all times ....
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 11:11:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks
(IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he
never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual issues
dire warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake, that’s all. Of
course he insists 'it was like that before I started' It wasn't.
Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and drove straight
back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left you
in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know.
The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my
position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get another
garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in a
court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you have
exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't they can
strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the classic #1
mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons before anything
else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn up
in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a chance
to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and setting
out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails to address
the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight flit away from
their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's been
around a long time.

They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to
admit it and fix the problem.
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.
Jethro_uk
2019-10-08 11:22:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter
bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you
*required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he
never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual
issues dire warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake,
that’s all. Of course he insists 'it was like that before I started'
It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and
drove straight back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left
you in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know.
The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my
position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get
another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in a
court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you
have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't they
can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the classic
#1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons before
anything else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn up
in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a
chance to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and
setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails to
address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight flit
away from their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's been
around a long time.
They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to
admit it and fix the problem.
There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they are
de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing further down
the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our adversarial concept of
civil law. Or not. I don't know.

There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once liability
is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the mere fixing of
the problem.

What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very
expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 12:01:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter
bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you
*required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he
never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual
issues dire warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake,
that’s all. Of course he insists 'it was like that before I started'
It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and
drove straight back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left
you in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know.
The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my
position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get
another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in a
court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you
have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't they
can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the classic
#1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons before
anything else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn up
in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a
chance to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and
setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails to
address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight flit
away from their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's been
around a long time.
They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to
admit it and fix the problem.
There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they are
de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing further down
the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our adversarial concept of
civil law. Or not. I don't know.
I am perfectly happy to sign an agreement to not pursue the matter
firther if they do fix it.
Post by Jethro_uk
There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once liability
is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the mere fixing of
the problem.
What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very
expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?
Actually no. Its about £100 + 30 mins labour or £36 and about an hours
labour

Or if taken to a main dealer what you said. £100 labour and a £300 part
--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.
Jethro_uk
2019-10-08 12:29:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter
bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are
you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was
competent, he admitted he never disconnected the front prop shaft
which the service manual issues dire warnings about if you don’t. He
just made a mistake, that’s all. Of course he insists 'it was like
that before I started' It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away I
noticed the difference and drove straight back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left
you in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to
know. The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice
my position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get
another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in
a court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you
have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't
they can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the
classic #1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons
before anything else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn
up in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a
chance to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and
setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails
to address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight
flit away from their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's
been around a long time.
They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to
admit it and fix the problem.
There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they are
de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing further
down the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our adversarial concept
of civil law. Or not. I don't know.
I am perfectly happy to sign an agreement to not pursue the matter
firther if they do fix it.
Not sure such disclaimers can be enforced in court, but IANAL. (You can't
sign away statutory rights AIUI)
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once liability
is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the mere fixing
of the problem.
What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very
expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?
Actually no. Its about £100 + 30 mins labour or £36 and about an hours
labour
Oh, FFS ! - Even 25 years ago, when I worked in trade I'd have done that
without mention, to keep a good customer.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Or if taken to a main dealer what you said. £100 labour and a £300 part
Are both those estimates for the correct job ?
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 13:16:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter
bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are
you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was
competent, he admitted he never disconnected the front prop shaft
which the service manual issues dire warnings about if you don’t. He
just made a mistake, that’s all. Of course he insists 'it was like
that before I started' It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away I
noticed the difference and drove straight back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left
you in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to
know. The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice
my position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get
another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in
a court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you
have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't
they can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the
classic #1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons
before anything else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn
up in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a
chance to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and
setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails
to address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight
flit away from their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's
been around a long time.
They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to
admit it and fix the problem.
There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they are
de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing further
down the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our adversarial concept
of civil law. Or not. I don't know.
I am perfectly happy to sign an agreement to not pursue the matter
firther if they do fix it.
Not sure such disclaimers can be enforced in court, but IANAL. (You can't
sign away statutory rights AIUI)
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once liability
is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the mere fixing
of the problem.
What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very
expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?
Actually no. Its about £100 + 30 mins labour or £36 and about an hours
labour
Oh, FFS ! - Even 25 years ago, when I worked in trade I'd have done that
without mention, to keep a good customer.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Or if taken to a main dealer what you said. £100 labour and a £300 part
Are both those estimates for the correct job ?
Yes.

I diunno if you are familar with the front propshaft of a freelander but
it has a sliding and slighly flexible coupoleing to the transfer box
(stock UJs aft) The coupling consits of a three way, rather than 4 way
'spider' with roller beraing tips in cups, that fits over the prop
shaft via sliding splines and is retained to the transfer box by a housing.

4 bolts and that bit all comes apart and the bearing can be replaced. Or
take the front shaft off completely and dismantle on the bench. an hours
work max.

IF YOU CAN SOUERCE NEW BEARINGS. Only one ebay seller has them
LR sells a propshaft for £295 complete and after market clones are £100.

These are obviously 'fit and forget' solutions.

.
--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard
Jethro_uk
2019-10-08 13:31:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter
bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are
you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was
competent, he admitted he never disconnected the front prop shaft
which the service manual issues dire warnings about if you don’t.
He just made a mistake, that’s all. Of course he insists 'it was
like that before I started' It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away
I noticed the difference and drove straight back into the garage.
At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have
left you in the position you now find yourself ?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to
know. The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice
my position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and
get another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.
Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?
crossposted to uk.legal
Post by Jethro_uk
All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up
in a court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask
if you have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you
haven't they can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill.
It's the classic #1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue
a summons before anything else, which no court likes.
OK good advice.
Post by Jethro_uk
So you need to show you have done everything you can before you
turn up in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other
party a chance to make good the problem.
Which I have so far
Post by Jethro_uk
Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and
setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails
to address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a
midnight flit away from their last customer at all times ....
Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's
been around a long time.
They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them
to admit it and fix the problem.
There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they
are de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing
further down the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our
adversarial concept of civil law. Or not. I don't know.
I am perfectly happy to sign an agreement to not pursue the matter
firther if they do fix it.
Not sure such disclaimers can be enforced in court, but IANAL. (You
can't sign away statutory rights AIUI)
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once
liability is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the
mere fixing of the problem.
What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very
expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?
Actually no. Its about £100 + 30 mins labour or £36 and about an hours
labour
Oh, FFS ! - Even 25 years ago, when I worked in trade I'd have done
that without mention, to keep a good customer.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Or if taken to a main dealer what you said. £100 labour and a £300 part
Are both those estimates for the correct job ?
Yes.
I diunno if you are familar with the front propshaft of a freelander but
it has a sliding and slighly flexible coupoleing to the transfer box
(stock UJs aft) The coupling consits of a three way, rather than 4 way
'spider' with roller beraing tips in cups, that fits over the prop
shaft via sliding splines and is retained to the transfer box by a housing.
4 bolts and that bit all comes apart and the bearing can be replaced. Or
take the front shaft off completely and dismantle on the bench. an hours
work max.
IF YOU CAN SOUERCE NEW BEARINGS. Only one ebay seller has them LR sells
a propshaft for £295 complete and after market clones are £100.
These are obviously 'fit and forget' solutions.
.
I think I can picture it ... maybe fiddly, but nothing like having to
remove the gearbox etc ?

As I said, for £100, I would have "just done it" and had a happy
customer. But then again we never once paid for an advert in nearly 30
years of work ...
Andrew
2019-10-08 14:56:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.

Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 15:47:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by The Natural Philosopher
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I made
that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told them to
stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them with the
police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and took it
for a second MOT. It passed.

I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of minor
things. He had words with the workshop manager.

I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff me
years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only needed a
new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm that
does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because they have
the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain
Mr Pounder Esquire
2019-10-08 16:29:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I made
that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told them
to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them with
the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and
took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of minor
things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff me
years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only needed a
new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm that
does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because they
have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered the
engine oil and charged the customer for new.
Andrew
2019-10-09 12:22:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I made
that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told them
to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them with
the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and
took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of minor
things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff me
years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only needed a
new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm that
does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because they
have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered the
engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people
in Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
AlexK
2019-10-09 18:43:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I made
that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told them
to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them with
the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and
took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of minor
things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff me
years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only needed a
new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm that
does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because they
have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered the
engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil.
How many people in Blackpool can afford a decent merc.
200* mercs with an easily fixable fault don’t cost
much. Mate of mine gets them off ebay and flogs
them off at a decent profit when fixed.
Post by Andrew
Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
None of the ones my mate sells are.
We don’t have many merc taxis at all.
Peeler
2019-10-09 18:59:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 05:43:48 +1100, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
Post by AlexK
Post by Andrew
How many people in Blackpool can afford a decent merc.
200* mercs
NOBODY talked to you, senile cretin from Oz!
--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$***@news.mixmin.net>
Mr Pounder Esquire
2019-10-09 21:11:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I
told them to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten
them with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the
handbrake and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town
called Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs,
filtered the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people
in Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
Jethro_uk
2019-10-10 09:44:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-10 10:53:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard
Jethro_uk
2019-10-10 12:57:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Andrew
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have
to tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and
VC then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I
told them to stop work and give me the car back. I had to threaten
them with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the
handbrake and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town
called Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs,
filtered the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people
in Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
Well our Citroen diesel doesn't have a warning light or a startup
delay ... I thought newer diesels (common rail ?) didn't need them ?
dennis@home
2019-10-10 13:42:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 10/10/2019 13:57, Jethro_uk wrote:

8<
Post by Jethro_uk
Well our Citroen diesel doesn't have a warning light or a startup
delay ... I thought newer diesels (common rail ?) didn't need them ?
Direct injection probably don't need one as they have high compression
ratios so the air will be hot when the fuel is injected.
Andrew
2019-10-10 18:45:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back.  I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does  alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
And can be horribly expensive to replace when they go wrong.
%
2019-10-10 18:51:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour
rate
!.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back.  I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does  alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
And can be horribly expensive to replace when they go wrong.
oh , is money an issue for you
Andrew
2019-10-10 19:16:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by %
Post by Andrew
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour
rate
!.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back.  I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does  alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
And can be horribly expensive to replace when they go wrong.
oh , is money an issue for you
No, only cheapskates drive diesel cars, to save money on road tax.

Then they wonder why they have to pay out huge bills for replacement
DPF parts.
%
2019-10-10 19:33:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by %
Post by Andrew
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by Mr Pounder Esquire
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn't done a freelander before and
unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to
tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC
then its an easy mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate
labour rate
!.
Er no. Just before I went into hoipsital for my cancer operatin I
made that mistake. They wanted to charge me £1500 for an MOT. I told
them to stop work and give me the car back.  I had to threaten them
with the police. Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake
and took it for a second MOT. It passed.
I then involved an official MOT man who failed it on a couple of
minor things. He had words with the workshop manager.
I then learnt that the same workshop manager who had tried to stiff
me years ago for £3000 quid for a new XJS rear diff when it only
needed a new oil seal, was involved.
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
This is not a back street grease moneky outfit. Its a decent firm
that does  alot of work for commercial vehicles. I use them because
they have the headroom to get under my camper on a 4 poster.
Many years ago there used to be a Mercedes dealership in a town called
Blackpool - oop north.
I know for a fact that they just sandblasted the spark plugs, filtered
the engine oil and charged the customer for new.
You'll have a job to filter dirty diesel engine oil. How many people in
Blackpool can afford a decent merc. Are these clapped out taxi's ?.
Do diesel engines have spark plugs?
They used to have glow plugs :)
Stll do.
And can be horribly expensive to replace when they go wrong.
oh , is money an issue for you
No, only cheapskates drive diesel cars, to save money on road tax.
Then they wonder why they have to pay out huge bills for replacement
DPF parts.
no , if they're driving cars like that they don't even see a bill ever ,
they just have open access to their bank account
Andrew
2019-10-09 12:20:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and took it for a
second MOT. It passed.
Ex-MOT tester neighnour has been looking at an exhaust problem
with the butchers ageing Nissan 4x4.

Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet, and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.

Back street MOT place near Amberley gave it a new MOT certificate,
no questions asked, so he could tax it and carry on using it until
it had a new front exhaust.

Never trust any MOT. They might show the mileage and available
to inspect online but there are still plenty of dodgy places who
will issue a clean MOT for a 'favour'.
Pamela
2019-10-09 13:02:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and took it for a
second MOT. It passed.
Ex-MOT tester neighnour has been looking at an exhaust problem
with the butchers ageing Nissan 4x4.
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet, and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.
Back street MOT place near Amberley gave it a new MOT certificate,
no questions asked, so he could tax it and carry on using it until
it had a new front exhaust.
Never trust any MOT. They might show the mileage and available
to inspect online but there are still plenty of dodgy places who
will issue a clean MOT for a 'favour'.
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?

Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened with a
backhander?
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-09 13:23:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dennis@home
2019-10-09 14:59:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?

if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-09 15:52:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The
car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
Anecdotal, pet. Same as 99% of the stuff on here.
--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dennis@home
2019-10-09 20:33:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The
car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
Anecdotal, pet. Same as 99% of the stuff on here.
a lie?
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-10 10:23:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The
car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
Anecdotal, pet. Same as 99% of the stuff on here.
a lie?
Merely reporting what I was told. And have no reason to think it a lie. If
you are so incensed about it, you can report it to who you want.
--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dennis@home
2019-10-10 13:43:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The
car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
Anecdotal, pet. Same as 99% of the stuff on here.
a lie?
Merely reporting what I was told. And have no reason to think it a lie. If
you are so incensed about it, you can report it to who you want.
That's why I asked for the details.

You can appeal an MOT pass you know.
Grik-bastarde®™
2019-10-09 21:56:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?

You would not last long on the inside.
Peeler
2019-10-09 22:19:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:56:41 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Someone needs to flush you down the toilet you escaped from, you piece of
shit psychopath!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"Why do we still have outdated laws prohibiting paedophilia? Do you
seriously think that a 12-year old who spends 15 hours a day on Facebook
doesn't know what's going on?"
MID: <FnMUE.676068$***@usenetxs.com>
dennis@home
2019-10-10 13:44:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.
I am already 12 months older than they gave me.
Peeler
2019-10-10 14:57:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:22:12 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by ***@home
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.
I am already 12 months older than they gave me.
And this is how you want to spend your borrowed time?
By reporting MOTs for unroadworthy cars???
Says, of course, the clinically insane psychopathic perv who has been
"living" on Usenet for OVER TWENTY YEARS, virtually around the clock!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"That [referring to the term "consenting adults"] is just an outdated legal
construct. Are you telling me that a 13-year old who spends 15 hours a day
on Facebook is incapable of consent?"
MID: <Og0VE.1298131$***@usenetxs.com>
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-10 14:53:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station
give a ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was
sweetened with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently.
The car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an
MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.
I am already 12 months older than they gave me.
And this is how you want to spend your borrowed time?
By reporting MOTs for unroadworthy cars???
You'd have to define unroadworthy. You can fail an MOY because the
windscreen washer bottle is empty. Or a sidelight out, when everyone
drives on dipped headlights. Or an iffy handbrake on an auto where it is
never ever used. And so on.

Or a more pertinent one. There are regs about fitting aftermarket HID to
headlights. But not similar for LED.

And of course those famous diesel VWs that had no trouble fooling the
emissions tests at MOT time.
--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Grik-bastarde®™
2019-10-10 16:16:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 15:53:06 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by ***@home
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station
give a ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was
sweetened with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently.
The car wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an
MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.
I am already 12 months older than they gave me.
And this is how you want to spend your borrowed time?
By reporting MOTs for unroadworthy cars???
You'd have to define unroadworthy. You can fail an MOY because the
windscreen washer bottle is empty. Or a sidelight out, when everyone
drives on dipped headlights. Or an iffy handbrake on an auto where it is
never ever used. And so on.
Or a more pertinent one. There are regs about fitting aftermarket HID to
headlights. But not similar for LED.
And of course those famous diesel VWs that had no trouble fooling the
emissions tests at MOT time.
By roadworthy I would define a vehicle in a dangerous condition that
the MOT place shouldn't allow back onto the road...and only a bent MOT
allows it to do so.
Peeler
2019-10-10 16:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 09:16:16 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
By roadworthy I would define
I (like many others) define YOU as not worthy to live, you useless,
perverted, psychopathic swine!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"That [referring to the term "consenting adults"] is just an outdated legal
construct. Are you telling me that a 13-year old who spends 15 hours a day
on Facebook is incapable of consent?"
MID: <Og0VE.1298131$***@usenetxs.com>
Andrew
2019-10-10 18:48:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Or an iffy handbrake on an auto where it is
never ever used. And so on.
even some surface corrosion where just the paint has
gone, but if it 'near' a suspension mounting point,
some zealous MOT testers will fail it.
Rod Speed
2019-10-10 18:53:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am already
12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
%
2019-10-10 19:03:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
just-a-goy
2019-10-10 19:27:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by %
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Die NOW and prove them wrong.
%
2019-10-10 19:34:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by just-a-goy
Post by %
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Die NOW and prove them wrong.
i don't take advice from usenet so , no
Peeler
2019-10-10 19:40:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 12:27:16 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by just-a-goy
Post by %
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Die NOW and prove them wrong.
YOU die NOW and rid the world of your psychopathic STENCH, pedophilic gay
Razovic!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic answering a question whether there
is any meaningful debate to lower the age of consent:
"If there isn't, there should be."
MID: <ZAMUE.174724$***@usenetxs.com>
Rod Speed
2019-10-10 19:44:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by %
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Bugger.
%
2019-10-10 20:11:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by %
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Out of interest, why would any back street MOT testing station give a
ceritficate to an unroadworthy car?
Surely it wouldn't ever be worth their while unless it was sweetened
with a backhander?
That's exactly how it works. Mate paid 80 quid for one recently. The car
wasn't unsafe - just had some features which would fail an MOT.
can you post details so it can be reported?
if not then you are also guilty of a crime.
What are you, some kind of grass?
You would not last long on the inside.
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Bugger.
i don't listen well , tinitus from rock n roll
Peeler
2019-10-10 20:56:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 06:44:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Post by Rod Speed
Post by %
i've got almost 3 years after they gave me 6 months
Bugger.
I said, stop projecting, you useless 85-year-old senile pest!
--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
Peeler
2019-10-10 19:12:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 05:53:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am already
12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
Stop projecting, you abnormal 85-year-old trolling senile pest!
--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
dennis@home
2019-10-11 08:50:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
sod of rod, are you now admitting you are based in the UK and pretending
to be an aussie as I have always suspected?
AlexK
2019-10-11 08:59:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
sod of rod,
Its you poms into sodding...
Peeler
2019-10-11 14:34:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:59:10 +1100, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
Post by AlexK
Post by ***@home
sod of rod,
Its you poms into sodding...
It's Brits in their UK newsgroups, you clinically insane, senile
psychopathic trolling cretin from Oz!
--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID: <***@mid.individual.net>
Pamela
2019-10-11 12:52:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
sod of rod, are you now admitting you are based in the UK and pretending
to be an aussie as I have always suspected?
Rod is an Aussie who, as far as I know, have never been to Europe.
dennis@home
2019-10-11 15:31:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by ***@home
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
sod of rod, are you now admitting you are based in the UK and pretending
to be an aussie as I have always suspected?
Rod is an Aussie who, as far as I know, have never been to Europe.
he claims he is.
he post stuff here that means he is doing it all night there.
Rod Speed
2019-10-11 18:59:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Pamela
Post by ***@home
Post by Rod Speed
Not a problem, I am not expecting to last much longer outside.I am
already 12 months older than they gave me.
And are costing us a fortune keeping you alive.
sod of rod, are you now admitting you are based in the UK and pretending
to be an aussie as I have always suspected?
Rod is an Aussie who, as far as I know, have never been to Europe.
he claims he is.
he post stuff here that means he is doing it all night there.
Nothing like all night, stupid.
Peeler
2019-10-11 19:02:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 05:59:47 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Post by Rod Speed
Post by ***@home
he claims he is.
he post stuff here that means he is doing it all night there.
Nothing like all night, stupid.
You get up EVERY NIGHT between 1 and 4 am in Australia to start with your
senile trolling on all the UK ngs, senile asshole! The reason is, NOBODY in
real life wants ANYTHING to do with you, so you troll on Usenet, as people
on Usenet can't as easily get rid of you as people in real life!
--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
dennis@home
2019-10-11 08:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
And this is how you want to spend your borrowed time?
By reporting MOTs for unroadworthy cars???
you might like the bastards driving around but I don't!
are you one of thebastards so stick up for them?
you have the right nym.
Grik-bastarde®™
2019-10-11 13:29:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
And this is how you want to spend your borrowed time?
By reporting MOTs for unroadworthy cars???
you might like the bastards driving around but I don't!
Who cares what you like? You'll be dead soon.
Post by ***@home
are you one of thebastards so stick up for them?
you have the right nym.
Apparently so. Until I change it again.
Peeler
2019-10-11 14:32:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 06:29:44 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
you might like the bastards driving around but I don't!
Who cares what you like?
Decent people care, psychopathic swine!
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
You'll be dead soon.
You WISH, psychopath!
Post by Grik-bastarde®™
Post by ***@home
are you one of thebastards so stick up for them?
you have the right nym.
Apparently so. Until I change it again.
It's a FACT: even your nyms, like everything else from you, reveal that you
are a clinically insane, psychopathic swine, dreckserb Razovic!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"That [referring to the term "consenting adults"] is just an outdated legal
construct. Are you telling me that a 13-year old who spends 15 hours a day
on Facebook is incapable of consent?"
MID: <Og0VE.1298131$***@usenetxs.com>
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-09 15:57:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and took it for a
second MOT. It passed.
Ex-MOT tester neighnour has been looking at an exhaust problem
with the butchers ageing Nissan 4x4.
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet,  and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure
MOT id concerned with safety.
And emissions at the exhaust.
Not emissions from the manifld
Post by Andrew
Back street MOT place near Amberley gave it a new MOT certificate,
no questions asked, so he could tax it and carry on using it until
it had a new front exhaust.
Never trust any MOT. They might show the mileage and available
to inspect online but there are still plenty of dodgy places who
will issue a clean MOT for a 'favour'.
Indeed, but again the genuine MOT inspector confirmed that the car was
safe to drive excopt for the state of two tyres - these he reckoned were
cut endough to see the steel belting.

Ther were, just, if you took a magnifying glass to them.
--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-10 10:21:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet, and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure
MOT id concerned with safety.
And emissions at the exhaust.
Not emissions from the manifld
Love to know how you could have emissions within tolerance with a blocked
cat. And that's what the engine management light is telling you.
--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Jethro_uk
2019-10-10 12:58:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the exhaust is
blowing back into the engine, out though manifold gaskets, etc.
engine management light is on, there is oil and crap everywhere under
the bonnet, and vehicle only goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure MOT id concerned with safety. And emissions
at the exhaust. Not emissions from the manifld
Love to know how you could have emissions within tolerance with a
blocked cat. And that's what the engine management light is telling you.
Fucked meter ? I know they're *supposed* to self-calibrate etc etc, but
there's always a new way to fail ...
Jethro_uk
2019-10-10 16:34:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the exhaust
is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold gaskets, etc.
engine management light is on, there is oil and crap everywhere
under the bonnet, and vehicle only goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure MOT id concerned with safety. And
emissions at the exhaust. Not emissions from the manifld
Love to know how you could have emissions within tolerance with a
blocked cat. And that's what the engine management light is telling you.
Fucked meter ? I know they're *supposed* to self-calibrate etc etc, but
there's always a new way to fail ...
If it's modern it will have sensors either side of the cat. To make sure
the cat is working.
I was thinking of the machine the MOT station use ...
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-10 18:07:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
If it's modern it will have sensors either side of the cat. To make
sure the cat is working.
I was thinking of the machine the MOT station use ...
Think it is a four gas analyser. Rather more sophisticated than the O2
sensors fitted to the exhaust.
--
*Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dennis@home
2019-10-11 08:57:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Jethro_uk
If it's modern it will have sensors either side of the cat. To make
sure the cat is working.
I was thinking of the machine the MOT station use ...
Think it is a four gas analyser. Rather more sophisticated than the O2
sensors fitted to the exhaust.
Not much use if the MOT tester is dodgy.
Still waiting for the details so the dodgy tester can be struck off.
Doing so could get hundreds of unroadworthy cars off the roads and save
many lives.
Rod Speed
2019-10-11 17:19:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Jethro_uk
If it's modern it will have sensors either side of the cat. To make
sure the cat is working.
I was thinking of the machine the MOT station use ...
Think it is a four gas analyser. Rather more sophisticated than the O2
sensors fitted to the exhaust.
Not much use if the MOT tester is dodgy.
:Lot of use when you want to fix what is broken and don’t care about the
MOT.
Post by ***@home
Still waiting for the details so the dodgy tester can be struck off.
Taint gunna happen, hardly anyone likes dobbers like you.
Post by ***@home
Doing so could get hundreds of unroadworthy cars off the roads
Very bloody unlikely that any MOT tester has bodged hundreds of tests for a
bribe.
Post by ***@home
and save many lives.
You don’t know that any lives at all are involved. He
may only bodge the ones that don’t involve any safety.
Peeler
2019-10-11 17:58:03 UTC
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On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 04:19:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Post by Rod Speed
Taint gunna happen, hardly anyone likes dobbers like you.
Nobody likes a cantankerous, self-opinionated, senile asshole like you,
senile Rodent! It's the VERY reason why you get up EVERY NIGHT between 1 and
4 am just so you can pester people with your obnoxious presence!

Zaire, better known as "Moose in Love with Nazi Scum" spread yet more of its
stench:

<FLUSH the disgusting nazi hypocrite's latest hypocritical nazi bullshit
unread again>

What are you doing in sci, nazi hypocrite?
--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <***@85.214.115.223>
dennis@home
2019-10-10 13:50:24 UTC
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Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet, and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure
MOT id concerned with safety.
And emissions at the exhaust.
Not emissions from the manifld
Love to know how you could have emissions within tolerance with a blocked
cat. And that's what the engine management light is telling you.
Its failed because the light is on.
It doesn't actually matter why its on, it fails if the warning lights do
no behave as though there is no fault.
This usually means they come on when you turn the ignition on and go out
after the car is started and may involve pressing the brake pedal to
check the switch.
This is why a failed warning lamp can be a fail.
I don't know what they do in a car with computer display of faults and
warning lights if they disagree but its probably a fail.
Andrew
2019-10-10 18:50:34 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
Eventually I paid for a bit of work to the handbrake and took it for
a second MOT. It passed.
Ex-MOT tester neighnour has been looking at an exhaust problem
with the butchers ageing Nissan 4x4.
Seems that the front cat (there are two) is blocked so the
exhaust is blowing back into the engine, out though manifold
gaskets, etc. engine management light is on, there is oil and
crap everywhere under the bonnet,  and vehicle only
goes up a hill in 1st gear.
That is not an MOT failure
Engine management light was on. Automatic falure.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
MOT id concerned with safety.
And emissions at the exhaust.
Not emissions from the manifld
Post by Andrew
Back street MOT place near Amberley gave it a new MOT certificate,
no questions asked, so he could tax it and carry on using it until
it had a new front exhaust.
Never trust any MOT. They might show the mileage and available
to inspect online but there are still plenty of dodgy places who
will issue a clean MOT for a 'favour'.
Indeed, but again the genuine MOT inspector confirmed that the car was
safe to drive excopt for the state of two tyres - these he reckoned were
cut endough to see the steel belting.
Ther were, just, if you took a magnifying glass to them.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-10-09 13:19:02 UTC
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Post by Andrew
To be fair, I suspect they hadn‘t done a freelander before and unless
you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the
prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy
mistake to make.
So take it to a LandRover dealer and pay the appropriate labour rate !.
Or even a Land Rover specialist. Must be plenty of those in Little
England, surely?
Post by Andrew
Back Street grease-monkey outfits are hit and miss when you have a
non-straight forward vehicle, unless you are certain that they are
specialists in that make of car.
Quite.
--
*You can't teach an old mouse new clicks *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
AlexK
2019-10-08 18:29:27 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
Should I insist that they fix it?
This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks
(IMHO). The clowns have fucked up once. Why on earth are you *required*
to have any faith in them thereafter ?
To be fair, I suspect they hadn’t done a freelander before and unless you
KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the prop
shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy mistake
to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he never
disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual issues dire
warnings about if you don’t. He just made a mistake, that’s all. Of course
he insists 'it was like that before I started' It wasn't. Immediately I
drove it away I noticed the difference and drove straight back into the
garage.
IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know. The
easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my position, be,
to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get another garage to fit
it and sue these guys for the cost.
The short story is that you are expected to let the original
garage that fucked up fix the problem, particularly now
that he does realise how it is supposed to be done.

While the small claims court may decide to force the
the original garage to pay for the repair you get done
elsewhere, there is more risk that they will decide that
you should have given the original garage the chance
to fix what they stuffed up because that is cheaper for
them because there is no labour cost involved.
Peeler
2019-10-08 18:39:22 UTC
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On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 05:29:27 +1100, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH>
Post by AlexK
you should have given the original garage the chance
to fix what they stuffed up because that is cheaper for
them because there is no labour cost involved.
Can't you just shut your endlessly driveling senile gob, senile Rodent? LOL
--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$***@sqwertz.com>
Chris Bartram
2019-10-08 11:46:35 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and
they have damaged the front  coupling to the transfer box - it now has
play in it.
I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this
was the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.
I am not sure how to proceed, Assuming that this ends up in the small
claims court I am conscious of the need to proceed with caution. Should
I insist that they fix it? I am concerned that I am using a car that may
damage itself further if driven with an out of balance prop shaft. Or
should I get it fixed elsewhere, and claim the money back? The cost of
doing that ranges from a new 'spider bearing' at £36 plus labour through
an after market prop shaft assembly at £100 plus labour to a full Land
Rover OEM part at £200+ plus labour at main dealer prices.
My question is really how the court would look on each approach. I.e.
should I fix it and claim and if so at what level? Or should I take them
to court before fixing it so they have the option of fixing it for free?
And to what level should the (pretty old) car be fixed?
TIA
If you're towards court action, an independent engineer's report on the
damage before changing anything is the answer IMO. That way they cannot
claim the repairing garage have damaged it; you have a known starting
position.


Pragmatically though, it may be easier to get it fixed then attempt to
recoup the cost. As the LR is a few years old, an aftermarket assembly
would be my choice, if it was newer, I'd do OEM. If they've fucked up
one bearing, I'd be questionong their ability to have done the rest of it.
Dave Liquorice
2019-10-08 13:31:39 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and
they have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has
play in it.
I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this
was the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.
One assumes it has been delivered and signed for...

How long have you given them to respond? Did you place a response
deadline in the letter? Did you state what you wanted them to do?

Send another letter, recorded delivery, reminding them of the
delivery date and contents of the first. If you can address it
directly, by name, to the MD, all the better. Less chance of it
ending up at the bottom of a service department clerks in tray.

Restate what action you expect them to take. State what action you
will take if the don't respond within a restated (realistic)
deadline. ie you get it repaired elsewhere and for them to foot that
bill and if they don't you'll file Small Claims Court claim for that
bill plus court costs and expenses (all those recorded letters, your
time/inconvience, etc)

The aim being to give them ample oporunity to correct the problem and
to be sure they know the consequencies if they don't.

You say they are "a well established and generally decent firm that's
been
around a long time." I'd expect such a company to jump once someone
high enough up the tree becomes aware.
--
Cheers
Dave.
The Natural Philosopher
2019-10-08 15:31:18 UTC
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Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and
they have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has
play in it.
I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this
was the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.
One assumes it has been delivered and signed for...
One assumes. I have the slip
Post by Dave Liquorice
How long have you given them to respond? Did you place a response
deadline in the letter? Did you state what you wanted them to do?
Send another letter, recorded delivery, reminding them of the
delivery date and contents of the first. If you can address it
directly, by name, to the MD, all the better. Less chance of it
ending up at the bottom of a service department clerks in tray.
Restate what action you expect them to take. State what action you
will take if the don't respond within a restated (realistic)
deadline. ie you get it repaired elsewhere and for them to foot that
bill and if they don't you'll file Small Claims Court claim for that
bill plus court costs and expenses (all those recorded letters, your
time/inconvience, etc)
The aim being to give them ample oporunity to correct the problem and
to be sure they know the consequencies if they don't.
You say they are "a well established and generally decent firm that's
been
around a long time." I'd expect such a company to jump once someone
high enough up the tree becomes aware.
I think that is exactly what I am going to do.
I gave them no deadline, but was due to bring te car in today but didn't
because they hadn't responded .
My experience with the law is generally at the low levels if you have
all your ducks in a row at a small claims hearing half the time the
other party doesn't even show up and you get judgment by default.

Of course getting a claim stamped by the court doesnt get you money
And you may need to request that from bailiffs etc.
But the publicity is not great for the firm is it?

I wonder if they award costs. Probably do if you have made genuine
efforts to reach an agreement.
--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.
Dave Liquorice
2019-10-08 21:33:29 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Dave Liquorice
One assumes it has been delivered and signed for...
One assumes. I have the slip
And checked on line that it's been signed for?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
My experience with the law is generally at the low levels if you have
all your ducks in a row at a small claims hearing half the time the
other party doesn't even show up and you get judgment by default.
Of course getting a claim stamped by the court doesnt get you money
And you may need to request that from bailiffs etc.
But the publicity is not great for the firm is it?
The summons quite often gets them to cough up to avoid the courtcase
and, provided you have a good case and have "done the right things",
the inevitable judgement against them. This has far more clout as
banks don't like lending to entities with judgments against them or
may witdraw or restrict any current borrowing.

Of course you'll find the very rotten apple occasionally that'll just
"disappear" but most companies aren't that rotten.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I wonder if they award costs. Probably do if you have made genuine
efforts to reach an agreement.
Yes, they do, any relevant documented costs including the court fees.
I think you can also claim a small amout for "incidentals" like going
to the PO to get the RD letters sent, phone calls, your time and
inconvience in having to prepare and bring the case as well.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Brian Gaff
2019-10-08 15:00:15 UTC
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Permalink
What I'd do is write recorded delivery to the ceo if its a group or the
manager if its independent and repeat your claim, and put a time limit on
that, then tell them that you will then take independent advice on
rectifying the vehicle and get it done keeping all documents. If the vehicle
is laid up while you wait, tell them you will expect to be recompensed for
hiring a vehicle during the time.
If they wont take the very strong hint and fix it, then go through with
your plan and present them with the bill and then if they won't pay claim.
A word of warning though, If they are a fly by night outfit they may have
other cases pending and may choose to wind up the business and claim hey
have no assets for the court to have.

I had this with a double glazing company and they eventually or rather one
of the directors gave me half the cost which was the best I could do as I
got the distinct impression he was as much hoodwinked by the other directors
as his customers were.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and they
have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has play in
it.
I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this was
the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward.
They have ignored it.
I am not sure how to proceed, Assuming that this ends up in the small
claims court I am conscious of the need to proceed with caution. Should I
insist that they fix it? I am concerned that I am using a car that may
damage itself further if driven with an out of balance prop shaft. Or
should I get it fixed elsewhere, and claim the money back? The cost of
doing that ranges from a new 'spider bearing' at £36 plus labour through
an after market prop shaft assembly at £100 plus labour to a full Land
Rover OEM part at £200+ plus labour at main dealer prices.
My question is really how the court would look on each approach. I.e.
should I fix it and claim and if so at what level? Or should I take them
to court before fixing it so they have the option of fixing it for free?
And to what level should the (pretty old) car be fixed?
TIA
--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.
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