Discussion:
More unfair reporting of a killing
(too old to reply)
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 09:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Killings are now routine in the UK and the trend was established years
ago. The UK has always lacked discipline and this is especially
evinced by the actions of police officers who quickly lose control and
commit offences. Similar comments can be made against judges.

Reporting in the UK has always been heavily controlled by wealthy
people to fit a political agenda, and again we see this week when two
people were killed in my town, that the media takes a typical unfair
view.

A journalist will never be swayed by facts.

The Telegraph headline:
"A French chef, Reynald Duchene, was killed as he tried to protect his
fiancée when two men harassed her after a classical music concert in
Essex. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7860202/Chef-killed-in-row-over-chairs-at-classical-music-concert-in-Essex.html

The journal states that two men harassed a female and a French chef
was killed trying to stop that harassement. We should recall that no
one has been convicted of harassement or any crime relating to this
matter. The journal uses the word "was" as is it is a proved fact even
before a trial has taken place.

The article goes on to report all as fact what can only be a view:
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "

Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?

The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.

Numerous journals carry on in the same manner:
eg http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-protecting-lover-from-yobs

which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.

I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.

Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
JNugent
2010-06-29 10:08:47 UTC
Permalink
rightsadvocates wrote:

[ ... ]
Post by rightsadvocates
Reporting in the UK has always been heavily controlled by wealthy
people to fit a political agenda, and again we see this week when two
people were killed in my town, that the media takes a typical unfair
view.
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
"A French chef, Reynald Duchene, was killed as he tried to protect his
fiancée when two men harassed her after a classical music concert in
Essex. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7860202/Chef-killed-in-row-over-chairs-at-classical-music-concert-in-Essex.html
The journal states that two men harassed a female and a French chef
was killed trying to stop that harassement. We should recall that no
one has been convicted of harassement or any crime relating to this
matter. The journal uses the word "was" as is it is a proved fact even
before a trial has taken place.
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.

The passage...

"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...

...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
It would only be non-factual if:

(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eg http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-protecting-lover-from-yobs
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.

Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 10:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.
The passage...
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...
...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
The Telegraph is reporting an account or a view as fact. Nothing is
proved. There was no court hearing, no conviction, and no evidence
heard. And yet the Telepgraph reports a series of events as facts. One
assumes it is simply reporting a police view of what happened. British
media outlets have a history of ignoring judical findings.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper. I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
Post by JNugent
Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
The day you understand this point, you will be an improved person.
Paul
2010-06-29 10:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.

Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 11:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.

I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
Paul
2010-06-29 12:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.
No not quite. If you wish to be clear you should use the closest word
that describes what you wish to talk about, rather than overegging the
debate by running through Roget's.

Eskimos are alleged to have 40 words for snow (myth of course), I'm sure
if they use the wrong one at the wrong time, many frozen eyebrows are
raised - "we know what he means, but why he is using a slightly wrong word".
Post by rightsadvocates
I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
English language has many uses, in a forum or discussion its usually
best to use the simplest and/or commonly used terms for things, helps
everyone follow the plot without distraction that oblige the writer to
provide a dictionary cite.
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 15:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.
No not quite. If you wish to be clear you should use the closest word
that describes what you wish to talk about, rather than overegging the
debate by running through Roget's.
Eskimos are alleged to have 40 words for snow (myth of course), I'm sure
if they use the wrong one at the wrong time, many frozen eyebrows are
raised - "we know what he means, but why he is using a slightly wrong word".
Post by rightsadvocates
I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
English language has many uses, in a forum or discussion its usually
best to use the simplest and/or commonly used terms for things, helps
everyone follow the plot without distraction that oblige the writer to
provide a dictionary cite.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Regardless of what you think, journal is a word and it means newspaper
or periodical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal

It you are unfamiliar with English, then do not complain to me about
your own ignorance.

"A journal (through French from Latin diurnalis, daily) has several
related meanings:

a daily record of events or business; a private journal is usually
referred to as a diary.
a newspaper or other periodical, in the literal sense of one published
each day;
many publications issued at stated intervals, such as magazines, or
scholarly pacific journals, academic journals, or the record of the
transactions of a society, are often called journals. Although journal
is sometimes used, erroneously[citation needed], as a synonym for
"magazine", in academic use, a journal refers to a serious, scholarly
publication, most often peer-reviewed. A non-scholarly magazine
written for an educated audience about an industry or an area of
professional activity is usually[citation needed] called a
professional magazine."
JNugent
2010-06-29 11:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
Not so. See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.
The passage...
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...
...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
The Telegraph is reporting an account or a view as fact. Nothing is
proved. There was no court hearing, no conviction, and no evidence
heard. And yet the Telepgraph reports a series of events as facts.
I see.

So he might not have been 38, he might not have been stabbed and might not
even be dead. It is possible that the fiancee was making up the story about
her birthday and the victim (her fiance) having taken her to the concert as a
birthday treat?

None of those things can possibly be taken as facts until after they have
been tendered in evidence before a jury in case they influence the jury?

Yeah... right.
Post by rightsadvocates
One
assumes it is simply reporting a police view of what happened. British
media outlets have a history of ignoring j