Discussion:
More unfair reporting of a killing
(too old to reply)
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 09:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Killings are now routine in the UK and the trend was established years
ago. The UK has always lacked discipline and this is especially
evinced by the actions of police officers who quickly lose control and
commit offences. Similar comments can be made against judges.

Reporting in the UK has always been heavily controlled by wealthy
people to fit a political agenda, and again we see this week when two
people were killed in my town, that the media takes a typical unfair
view.

A journalist will never be swayed by facts.

The Telegraph headline:
"A French chef, Reynald Duchene, was killed as he tried to protect his
fiancée when two men harassed her after a classical music concert in
Essex. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7860202/Chef-killed-in-row-over-chairs-at-classical-music-concert-in-Essex.html

The journal states that two men harassed a female and a French chef
was killed trying to stop that harassement. We should recall that no
one has been convicted of harassement or any crime relating to this
matter. The journal uses the word "was" as is it is a proved fact even
before a trial has taken place.

The article goes on to report all as fact what can only be a view:
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "

Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?

The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.

Numerous journals carry on in the same manner:
eg http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-protecting-lover-from-yobs

which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.

I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.

Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
JNugent
2010-06-29 10:08:47 UTC
Permalink
rightsadvocates wrote:

[ ... ]
Post by rightsadvocates
Reporting in the UK has always been heavily controlled by wealthy
people to fit a political agenda, and again we see this week when two
people were killed in my town, that the media takes a typical unfair
view.
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
"A French chef, Reynald Duchene, was killed as he tried to protect his
fiancée when two men harassed her after a classical music concert in
Essex. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7860202/Chef-killed-in-row-over-chairs-at-classical-music-concert-in-Essex.html
The journal states that two men harassed a female and a French chef
was killed trying to stop that harassement. We should recall that no
one has been convicted of harassement or any crime relating to this
matter. The journal uses the word "was" as is it is a proved fact even
before a trial has taken place.
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.

The passage...

"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...

...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
It would only be non-factual if:

(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eg http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-protecting-lover-from-yobs
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.

Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 10:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.
The passage...
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...
...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
The Telegraph is reporting an account or a view as fact. Nothing is
proved. There was no court hearing, no conviction, and no evidence
heard. And yet the Telepgraph reports a series of events as facts. One
assumes it is simply reporting a police view of what happened. British
media outlets have a history of ignoring judical findings.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper. I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
Post by JNugent
Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
The day you understand this point, you will be an improved person.
Paul
2010-06-29 10:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.

Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 11:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.

I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
Paul
2010-06-29 12:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.
No not quite. If you wish to be clear you should use the closest word
that describes what you wish to talk about, rather than overegging the
debate by running through Roget's.

Eskimos are alleged to have 40 words for snow (myth of course), I'm sure
if they use the wrong one at the wrong time, many frozen eyebrows are
raised - "we know what he means, but why he is using a slightly wrong word".
Post by rightsadvocates
I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
English language has many uses, in a forum or discussion its usually
best to use the simplest and/or commonly used terms for things, helps
everyone follow the plot without distraction that oblige the writer to
provide a dictionary cite.
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 15:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
[ ... ]
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
You should read your own cites.
A newspaper may be regarded as a journal.
Not all journals are newspapers - for instance "A book of original entry
in a double-entry system, listing all transactions
and indicating the accounts to which they belong." is not a newpaper.
Call a spade a sharp bladed digging instrument!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is like saying a house is a building but a building may not be a
house. So? I can still say the house burned down, and that building
was insured.
No not quite. If you wish to be clear you should use the closest word
that describes what you wish to talk about, rather than overegging the
debate by running through Roget's.
Eskimos are alleged to have 40 words for snow (myth of course), I'm sure
if they use the wrong one at the wrong time, many frozen eyebrows are
raised - "we know what he means, but why he is using a slightly wrong word".
Post by rightsadvocates
I understand most British people do not understand either England or
the English language.
English language has many uses, in a forum or discussion its usually
best to use the simplest and/or commonly used terms for things, helps
everyone follow the plot without distraction that oblige the writer to
provide a dictionary cite.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Regardless of what you think, journal is a word and it means newspaper
or periodical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal

It you are unfamiliar with English, then do not complain to me about
your own ignorance.

"A journal (through French from Latin diurnalis, daily) has several
related meanings:

a daily record of events or business; a private journal is usually
referred to as a diary.
a newspaper or other periodical, in the literal sense of one published
each day;
many publications issued at stated intervals, such as magazines, or
scholarly pacific journals, academic journals, or the record of the
transactions of a society, are often called journals. Although journal
is sometimes used, erroneously[citation needed], as a synonym for
"magazine", in academic use, a journal refers to a serious, scholarly
publication, most often peer-reviewed. A non-scholarly magazine
written for an educated audience about an industry or an area of
professional activity is usually[citation needed] called a
professional magazine."
JNugent
2010-06-29 11:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
That's puzzling - why "journal" and not "newspaper"? The Daily Telegraph
newspaper is not usually - or often - described as a journal, even though
those who write for them are often described as journalists. It's just one of
those little quirks of our language.
A journal is a newspaper.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journal
Not so. See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and
her family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal
Philharmonic Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday. "
I think everyone would want to support the notion of the fair trial, but I'm
not sure what point you are trying to make there.
The passage...
"The 38 year-old was stabbed to death after taking Paula Haddlesey and her
family to a picnic and performance in a park by the Royal Philharmonic
Concert Orchestra, to celebrate her birthday"...
...seems *very* factual on the face of it. I can't discern any opinion in it.
(a) the victim was not 38, or
(b) the victim was not stabbed to death, or
(c) the victim hadn't taken the lady to hear the RPCO in that park, or
(d) it wasn't hthe lady's birthday on that day or at about that time.
The Telegraph is reporting an account or a view as fact. Nothing is
proved. There was no court hearing, no conviction, and no evidence
heard. And yet the Telepgraph reports a series of events as facts.
I see.

So he might not have been 38, he might not have been stabbed and might not
even be dead. It is possible that the fiancee was making up the story about
her birthday and the victim (her fiance) having taken her to the concert as a
birthday treat?

None of those things can possibly be taken as facts until after they have
been tendered in evidence before a jury in case they influence the jury?

Yeah... right.
Post by rightsadvocates
One
assumes it is simply reporting a police view of what happened. British
media outlets have a history of ignoring judical findings.
They certainly have a strong track record of ignoring judicial findings that
haven't been found, as in the instant case.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Oh... no response.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
The day you understand this point, you will be an improved person.
The day I understand that "point", you will have been able to explain it. I
shan't be holdig my breath.

Rant away...
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 11:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Not so. See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong. Never mind, have a drink of beer together and try
not to get stabbed on the way home!
Post by JNugent
I see.
So he might not have been 38, he might not have been stabbed and might not
even be dead. It is possible that the fiancee was making up the story about
her birthday and the victim (her fiance) having taken her to the concert as a
birthday treat?
None of those things can possibly be taken as facts until after they have
been tendered in evidence before a jury in case they influence the jury?
It is the circumstances that matter, not is age, that is media
ageism. He was celebrating with a group of 10? Was he drinking? How
many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink. That area
has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The Telegraph
made no specific reference to this.
Post by JNugent
Yeah... right.
Post by rightsadvocates
One
assumes it is simply reporting a police view of what happened. British
media outlets have a history of ignoring judical findings.
They certainly have a strong track record of ignoring judicial findings that
haven't been found, as in the instant case.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Does anyone else think this is unfair reporting? Could this give the
accused people an unfair trial?
How?
Oh... no response.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Is there some underlying point you are trying to make there?
Post by rightsadvocates
which terms the accused "jobs" a word endorsed by Blair until his own
was arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly.
I really wonder what the British press would do is the laws of England
and Wales were enforced and most journalists (along with police
officers) would be carted of to jail.
Someone said here that I was lucky they did not control the UK. Well,
I think many of you should reflect if I did and the laws were
enforced, if you would be need an address change.
???
The day you understand this point, you will be an improved person.
The day I understand that "point", you will have been able to explain it. I
shan't be holdig my breath.
I hope Jesus forgives,
Post by JNugent
Rant away...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
JNugent
2010-06-29 12:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Not so. See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
I see.
So he might not have been 38, he might not have been stabbed and might not
even be dead. It is possible that the fiancee was making up the story about
her birthday and the victim (her fiance) having taken her to the concert as a
birthday treat?
None of those things can possibly be taken as facts until after they have
been tendered in evidence before a jury in case they influence the jury?
It is the circumstances that matter, not is age, that is media
ageism. He was celebrating with a group of 10? Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Post by rightsadvocates
That area has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The
Telegraph made no specific reference to this.
Should it have? If so, why should it have? There's hardly an area in the UK
which doesn't have a pub or two or three.

What if there were a brothel in the area (and you'd be just the one to know
that, at my guess)? Would that suggest (to you) that he'd been living off
immoral earnings?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
That's a bit rich from someone trying to claim that others don't understand
English.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
That answer was bizarre.

Is English not your native language?
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 15:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Not so. See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
A bit like two caveman saying a car engine is useless.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
I see.
So he might not have been 38, he might not have been stabbed and might not
even be dead. It is possible that the fiancee was making up the story about
her birthday and the victim (her fiance) having taken her to the concert as a
birthday treat?
None of those things can possibly be taken as facts until after they have
been tendered in evidence before a jury in case they influence the jury?
It is the circumstances that matter, not is age, that is media
ageism. He was celebrating with a group of 10? Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Surely it does.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
That area has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The
Telegraph made no specific reference to this.
Should it have? If so, why should it have? There's hardly an area in the UK
which doesn't have a pub or two or three.
Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the UK. That part of Southend is well
known as a drinking area and near to the football ground. Doorman are
regularly employed in the public houses there.
Post by JNugent
What if there were a brothel in the area (and you'd be just the one to know
that, at my guess)? Would that suggest (to you) that he'd been living off
immoral earnings?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
The Telegraph continues with "He was part of a ten-strong party"
indicating the word ten-strong normally used when referring to a
force, as if somehow the party was defending a female from harassers,
almost like a war.
I think you're reading more into that than is there. The story goes on to
recount the circumstances of his companions realising - some time after the
fact - that he had been stabbed. Their all travelling together is part of that.
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
That's a bit rich from someone trying to claim that others don't understand
English.
Really?
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
That answer was bizarre.
Is English not your native language?
What saddens me is that capitalism gives you power and your type.

I doubt if you are even remotely qualified to judge me in any context.

Why not just drink some beer; something your type likes?
Paul
2010-06-29 15:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
I doubt if you are even remotely qualified to judge me in any context.
Why not just drink some beer; something your type likes?
You are FACTS and I claim my £5
JNugent
2010-06-29 18:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
A bit like two caveman saying a car engine is useless.
LOL!
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
He [the murder victim - Ed.] was celebrating with a group of 10?
Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Surely it does.
Only to someone deranged.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
That area has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The
Telegraph made no specific reference to this.
Should it have? If so, why should it have? There's hardly an area in the UK
which doesn't have a pub or two or three.
Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the UK. That part of Southend is well
known as a drinking area and near to the football ground. Doorman are
regularly employed in the public houses there.
I am very familiar with "that part of the UK", since (broadly) I live in it.
I know Southend reasonably well as an occasional visitor.

I utterly reject your ludicrous suggestion that people only go to Southend to
drink and get drunk.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
What if there were a brothel in the area (and you'd be just the one to know
that, at my guess)? Would that suggest (to you) that he'd been living off
immoral earnings?
Oh... no answer to that?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
That's a bit rich from someone trying to claim that others don't understand
English.
Really?
Yes.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
That answer was bizarre.
Is English not your native language?
What saddens me is that capitalism gives you power and your type.
"Capitalism gives [me] power and [my] type"?

Full marks for unintelligibility.
Post by rightsadvocates
I doubt if you are even remotely qualified to judge me in any context.
You'd be surprised. In certain circumstances, it would be my job to judge you.
Post by rightsadvocates
Why not just drink some beer; something your type likes?
<shrug>
rightsadvocates
2010-06-30 14:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
A bit like two caveman saying a car engine is useless.
LOL!
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
He [the murder victim - Ed.] was celebrating with a group of 10?
Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Surely it does.
Only to someone deranged.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
That area has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The
Telegraph made no specific reference to this.
Should it have? If so, why should it have? There's hardly an area in the UK
which doesn't have a pub or two or three.
Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the UK. That part of Southend is well
known as a drinking area and near to the football ground. Doorman are
regularly employed in the public houses there.
I am very familiar with "that part of the UK", since (broadly) I live in it.
I know Southend reasonably well as an occasional visitor.
I utterly reject your ludicrous suggestion that people only go to Southend to
drink and get drunk.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
What if there were a brothel in the area (and you'd be just the one to know
that, at my guess)? Would that suggest (to you) that he'd been living off
immoral earnings?
Oh... no answer to that?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
That's a bit rich from someone trying to claim that others don't understand
English.
Really?
Yes.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
That answer was bizarre.
Is English not your native language?
What saddens me is that capitalism gives you power and your type.
"Capitalism gives [me] power and [my] type"?
Full marks for unintelligibility.
Post by rightsadvocates
I doubt if you are even remotely qualified to judge me in any context.
You'd be surprised. In certain circumstances, it would be my job to judge you.
Really, well I hope you are NOT using your employer's time, computers,
or Internet connection for this newsgroup. If you are, then you are
probably commiting a crime unless your employer allows organisational
resources for personal use and has correctly disallowed business costs
in taxes.
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Why not just drink some beer; something your type likes?
<shrug>
JNugent
2010-06-30 17:35:10 UTC
Permalink
... I hope you are NOT using your employer's time, computers,
or Internet connection for this newsgroup.
Of course I do no such thing.

I pay my way. Do you?

I sometimes use the internet connection that I pay for on my employer's
business. I see no necessity to make a charge for that. Should I?
If you are, then you are
probably commiting a crime unless your employer allows organisational
resources for personal use and has correctly disallowed business costs
in taxes.
But I'm not.
rightsadvocates
2010-06-30 14:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
A bit like two caveman saying a car engine is useless.
LOL!
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
He [the murder victim - Ed.] was celebrating with a group of 10?
Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Surely it does.
Only to someone deranged.
To call someone deranged is a crime. How come you are not in prison?
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
That area has three large pubs and is near to the football ground. The
Telegraph made no specific reference to this.
Should it have? If so, why should it have? There's hardly an area in the UK
which doesn't have a pub or two or three.
Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the UK. That part of Southend is well
known as a drinking area and near to the football ground. Doorman are
regularly employed in the public houses there.
I am very familiar with "that part of the UK", since (broadly) I live in it.
I know Southend reasonably well as an occasional visitor.
I utterly reject your ludicrous suggestion that people only go to Southend to
drink and get drunk.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
What if there were a brothel in the area (and you'd be just the one to know
that, at my guess)? Would that suggest (to you) that he'd been living off
immoral earnings?
Oh... no answer to that?
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
eghttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183666/Chef-is-stabbed-to-death-p...
The Daily Express is a newspaper, not a journal, in everyday English.
As I said already a journal is a newspaper.
But you were wrong and still are.
Sorry. Get off your high horse.
That's a bit rich from someone trying to claim that others don't understand
English.
Really?
Yes.
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
I am sorry that you are
one of the 95% of British people who cannot understand the English
language, let alone England.
What?
Yes.
That answer was bizarre.
Is English not your native language?
What saddens me is that capitalism gives you power and your type.
"Capitalism gives [me] power and [my] type"?
Full marks for unintelligibility.
Post by rightsadvocates
I doubt if you are even remotely qualified to judge me in any context.
You'd be surprised. In certain circumstances, it would be my job to judge you.
Post by rightsadvocates
Why not just drink some beer; something your type likes?
<shrug>
Paul
2010-06-30 14:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
See what another poster has written to correct you on that.
You are both wrong.
Or both right and you are wrong.
A bit like two caveman saying a car engine is useless.
LOL!
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
He [the murder victim - Ed.] was celebrating with a group of 10?
Was he drinking?
Does it matter?
Post by rightsadvocates
How many people in a group celebrating in the UK do not drink.
If that's a question, the answer does not matter.
Surely it does.
Only to someone deranged.
To call someone deranged is a crime. How come you are not in prison?
No its not...
Nigel Oldfield
2010-06-30 17:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Only to someone deranged.
To call someone deranged is a crime. How come you are not in prison?
No its not...
Well, it *could* be, but unlikely, based on this thread content, thus
far.

WM
William Black
2010-06-30 16:57:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by JNugent
Only to someone deranged.
To call someone deranged is a crime. How come you are not in prison?
Because it isn't a crime.

It's what's called 'fair comment'.
--
William Black

These are the gilded popinjays and murderous assassins of Perfidious
Albion and they are about their Queen's business. Any man who impedes
their passage does so at his own peril.
Nigel Oldfield
2010-06-29 10:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.

WM
rightsadvocates
2010-06-29 11:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.
WM
It is all about money. The story from the Telegraph paints a nice
little rosy picture of a Chef with his family celebrating who is
stabbed to death while trying to defend his wife to be. I really hope
someone has the courage to prosecute the Telegraph.
Paul
2010-06-29 13:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.
WM
It is all about money. The story from the Telegraph paints a nice
little rosy picture of a Chef with his family celebrating who is
stabbed to death while trying to defend his wife to be. I really hope
someone has the courage to prosecute the Telegraph.
For what?
No ...really ...for what?

Would you be happier if they did a bit of digging and published:

"Adulterer who once gave customers food poisoning, gets his just deserts
after spilling someone's hard earned pint"?
Mrcheerful
2010-06-29 18:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.
WM
It is all about money. The story from the Telegraph paints a nice
little rosy picture of a Chef with his family celebrating who is
stabbed to death while trying to defend his wife to be. I really hope
someone has the courage to prosecute the Telegraph.
For what?
No ...really ...for what?
"Adulterer who once gave customers food poisoning, gets his just
deserts after spilling someone's hard earned pint"?
perhaps the knife was the chef's, after all who uses a knife the most?
rightsadvocates
2010-06-30 14:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.
WM
It is all about money. The story from the Telegraph paints a nice
little rosy picture of a Chef with his family celebrating who is
stabbed to death while trying to defend his wife to be. I really hope
someone has the courage to prosecute the Telegraph.
For what?
No ...really ...for what?
"Adulterer who once gave customers food poisoning, gets his just
deserts after spilling someone's hard earned pint"?
perhaps the knife was the chef's, after all who uses a knife the most?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
What happened is not the issue, the issue is what was reported. The
case has been reported in a one-sided manner as if the entire matter
is fully proved.
Paul
2010-06-30 14:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Yes, media shapes minds and lies and misinformation shape them
incorrectly.
WM
It is all about money. The story from the Telegraph paints a nice
little rosy picture of a Chef with his family celebrating who is
stabbed to death while trying to defend his wife to be. I really hope
someone has the courage to prosecute the Telegraph.
For what?
No ...really ...for what?
"Adulterer who once gave customers food poisoning, gets his just
deserts after spilling someone's hard earned pint"?
perhaps the knife was the chef's, after all who uses a knife the most?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
What happened is not the issue, the issue is what was reported. The
case has been reported in a one-sided manner as if the entire matter
is fully proved.
rubbish...
Don't know what your gripe is, but you claim to know the area, do you
know the villains?
Paul
2010-06-29 10:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Killings are now routine in the UK and the trend was established years
ago. The UK has always lacked discipline and this is especially
evinced by the actions of police officers who quickly lose control and
commit offences. Similar comments can be made against judges.
Reporting in the UK has always been heavily controlled by wealthy
people to fit a political agenda, and again we see this week when two
people were killed in my town, that the media takes a typical unfair
view.
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
That's really unbiased isn't it...
Nigel Oldfield
2010-06-29 10:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
That's really unbiased isn't it...
In these days, it is a fair representation of most journalists in the
mainstream (perhaps it is more correct to say "Editors"?).

WM
Mike Smith
2010-06-29 11:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
That's really unbiased isn't it...
In these days, it is a fair representation of most journalists in the
mainstream (perhaps it is more correct to say "Editors"?).
WM
I know one teacher who has a copy of 'How to get ahead in advertising' which
gets shown to the students - In the present context there is a scene where
the 'hero' (an advertising person) is discussing a news report in a paper
and dismantles it logically to reveal that it is an opinion not a statement
of fact and that it is then further interpreted by the readers in the light
of their own prejudice. When the film was made the idea of putting vitamins
in toilet paper was funny, we now have toilet paper with vitamins.
I think it is fair to assume anything in a journal, periodical, annnual or
quarterly 'news' publication is in some sense propaganda (pandering to
prejudice boosts sales) and hence cannot be trusted.
There again, like the teacher, I'm old and cynical

Regards

Mike
Paul
2010-06-29 13:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Smith
Post by Nigel Oldfield
Post by Paul
Post by rightsadvocates
A journalist will never be swayed by facts.
That's really unbiased isn't it...
In these days, it is a fair representation of most journalists in the
mainstream (perhaps it is more correct to say "Editors"?).
WM
I know one teacher who has a copy of 'How to get ahead in advertising' which
gets shown to the students - In the present context there is a scene where
the 'hero' (an advertising person) is discussing a news report in a paper
and dismantles it logically to reveal that it is an opinion not a statement
of fact and that it is then further interpreted by the readers in the light
of their own prejudice. When the film was made the idea of putting vitamins
in toilet paper was funny, we now have toilet paper with vitamins.
I think it is fair to assume anything in a journal, periodical, annnual or
quarterly 'news' publication is in some sense propaganda (pandering to
prejudice boosts sales) and hence cannot be trusted.
There again, like the teacher, I'm old and cynical
Everything anyone ever says or does is propoganda - like me, like what I
stand for, like what I say.
Newspapers do the same - never!
Nigel Oldfield
2010-06-29 13:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Everything anyone ever says or does is propoganda -
Not correct, but I will humour you for now.
Post by Paul
like me, like what I
stand for, like what I say.
Newspapers do the same - never!
But there is positive propaganda and negative propaganda.

The latter often rarely discounts truth as being important.

WM
Nigel Oldfield
2010-06-29 16:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Oldfield
The latter often rarely discounts truth as being important.
WM
Man what was I on?

Drop the rarely

WM
Steve Walker
2010-06-30 17:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by rightsadvocates
Killings are now routine in the UK and the trend was established years
ago. The UK has always lacked discipline and this is especially
evinced by the actions of police officers who quickly lose control and
commit offences. Similar comments can be made against judges.
trolling fool

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