Discussion:
Zero Hours Contracts
(too old to reply)
Yellow
2019-09-10 15:10:54 UTC
Permalink
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.

Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.

I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.

How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?

But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
Grikbaster®™
2019-09-10 16:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
The Labour Party has always been divorced from commercial realities.
Peeler
2019-09-10 17:47:15 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 09:39:11 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
Post by Grikbaster®™
The Labour Party has always been divorced from commercial realities.
You fucking (or rather non-fucking) stupid Usenet troll have been divorced
from LIFE for OVER TWENTY YEARS ...ever since you decided to spend the
entire rest of your abnormal life as a constantly ridiculed, despised and
abused piece of shit on Usenet! At least that kept you away from the kiddies
you cherish.
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"There will always be progressives such as Harriet Harperson who want to
take that extra step forward. Paedophiles are still a long way from
being widely accepted."
MID: <rlMUE.676067$***@usenetxs.com>
steve robinson
2019-09-10 17:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
Its because corbyn lives in the past, his beliefs are very hard
left where the state owns everything and everyone works for the
state, unfortunately he's never worked in the real world where
you need to be able to compete and make a profit.
pensive hamster
2019-09-10 19:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?

I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee. Eg.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract#Criticism

'... A Channel 4 documentary broadcast on 1 August 2013 employed
secret cameras in Amazon UK's Rugeley warehouse to document
worker abuses and claimed that Amazon used "controversial"
zero-hour contracts as a tool to reprimand staff, and were "tagging"
employees with GPS and subjecting them to harsh working conditions.[33]

'Workers subject to zero-hour contracts are vulnerable to exploitation as
they may be denied work at any time for any reason, including declining
to respond to a demand to work. A refusal to work in any one instance
for any reason can result in a prolonged period of lack of work.[34]'

I do not know what the answer is. Zero hour contracts certainly have
their place, but can also be abused. But the answer can't be to simply
ban them outright.
Post by Yellow
But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
pensive hamster
2019-09-10 20:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee.
[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract#United_Kingdom

'.... In Autoclenz Ltd v Belcher [2011] UKSC 41, the UK Supreme Court
delivered a groundbreaking judgment on workers who were on a
zero-hour contract. Lord Clarke held, at paragraph 35, that in
employment relations which are characterised by inequality of bargaining
power, the written terms of a contract may not in truth represent what
was the contract in law. In 2013, the reasoning in Autoclenz was applied
by Supperstone J in the Employment Appeal Tribunal [6] to hold that a
security guard who was given a zero-hours contract was entitled to a
stable working pattern: the contract's written terms were invalid.

'Together, this indicates that all zero-hours contracts may be unlawful,
and workers may be entitled to sue their employers for an unlawful
deduction of wages if they are willing and able to work.[7]'

[...]
Commander Kinsey
2019-09-10 20:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances,
Then don't take the job, it's your choice.
Fredxx
2019-09-10 21:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract#Criticism
'... A Channel 4 documentary broadcast on 1 August 2013 employed
secret cameras in Amazon UK's Rugeley warehouse to document
worker abuses and claimed that Amazon used "controversial"
zero-hour contracts as a tool to reprimand staff, and were "tagging"
employees with GPS and subjecting them to harsh working conditions.[33]
'Workers subject to zero-hour contracts are vulnerable to exploitation as
they may be denied work at any time for any reason, including declining
to respond to a demand to work. A refusal to work in any one instance
for any reason can result in a prolonged period of lack of work.[34]'
I do not know what the answer is. Zero hour contracts certainly have
their place, but can also be abused. But the answer can't be to simply
ban them outright.
Post by Yellow
But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
My experience is different. My contract specifically says "hours to be
agreed" with a gentleman's agreement that I work a minimum set of hours.

It works well for me, but I imagine where demand for labour is
outstripped by supply it works in favour of the employer. I would
suggest that has been a significant driving force for Brexit, where pay
has not in the past been set by statutory minimums.
Yellow
2019-09-10 22:34:20 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.

But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
tim...
2019-09-11 08:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.
But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
the issue is one of fixed hours

it is minimum number of guaranteed hours (per accounting period)

tim
kat
2019-09-11 08:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts > that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I > would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue > about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.
But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
the issue is one of fixed hours
it is minimum number of guaranteed hours (per accounting period)
Is it though. I haven't seen what Corbyn said, but there are two separate issues.

A fixed minimum number of hours is one thing, fixing the actual hours, or days,
is another. And the way I read what Yellow posted about "fixed, regular, hours"
I took it to fix the when as much as the how many. That is something which suits
some people, and some employers, but doesn't suit others so well.
--
kat
Post by tim...
^..^<
tim...
2019-09-11 09:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts > that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I > would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue > about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.
But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
the issue is one of fixed hours
not for the first time I mistyped is for isn't :-)
Post by kat
Post by tim...
it is minimum number of guaranteed hours (per accounting period)
Is it though.
the main problem with zero hours contracts is the fact that you have no idea
how many hours you will work that week

not which hours you will work that week
Post by kat
I haven't seen what Corbyn said, but there are two separate issues.
A fixed minimum number of hours is one thing, fixing the actual hours, or
days, is another. And the way I read what Yellow posted about "fixed,
regular, hours" I took it to fix the when as much as the how many. That is
something which suits some people, and some employers, but doesn't suit
others so well.
The sort of ad hoc work that you are referring to is not really a zero hours
contract. It is simply someone ringing you up saying" can you do this work
for me this week" and issuing you a short term contract for the work

But with zero house contact you are tied to the employer week in week out
with no knowledge how many hours you will get.

tim
kat
2019-09-11 10:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts > and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts > > that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was > to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I > > would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they > would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be > agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue > > about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.
But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
the issue is one of fixed hours
not for the first time I mistyped is for isn't :-)
That explains things. :-)
Post by tim...
Post by kat
Post by tim...
it is minimum number of guaranteed hours (per accounting period)
Is it though.
the main problem with zero hours contracts is the fact that you have no idea how
many hours you will work that week
not which hours you will work that week
Post by kat
I haven't seen what Corbyn said, but there are two separate issues.
A fixed minimum number of hours is one thing, fixing the actual hours, or
days, is another.  And the way I read what Yellow posted about "fixed,
regular, hours" I took it to fix the when as much as the how many. That is
something which suits some people, and some employers, but doesn't suit others
so well.
The sort of ad hoc work that you are referring to is not really a zero hours
contract.  It is simply someone ringing you up saying" can you do this work for
me this week" and issuing you a short term contract for the work
But with zero house contact you are tied to the employer week in week out with
no knowledge how many hours you will get.
A lot depends on what the individual contract says, I guess. Take me. I am
employed. PAYE, entitled to holidays etc etc. For 5 hours a week, and as it
happens a fixed time. But I am "casual", and as long as I give appropriate
notice I don't have to work ( and then I don't get paid) or it might be I need
to do a bit more and I claim the extra. And all of that is in the contract. I
know it isn't zero hours, but it shows how flexible contracts can be.

Years ago one of my daughters worked a local theatre, part of a list of people
who looked at dates and said when they could work. She wasn't self employed,
that much I do know, which is what the ad hoc people will tend to be. I assume
it was a zero hours contract, but it was one that suited the people doing it.
--
kat
Post by tim...
^..^<
pensive hamster
2019-09-11 16:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I know some people have taken zero hour contracts when in fact they
really want regular hours but the answer is to resolve that and not take
away the option of ad-hoc work for everyone else.
But if you cannot get your head around that and think everyone should
have fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn.
What leads you to say "But if you ... think everyone should have
fixed hours with a single employer regardless of their personal
circumstances, then clearly you are as clueless as Corbyn" ?

I wrote, in the final two sentences of what you snipped from my
previous post:

"Zero hour contracts certainly have their place, but can also be
abused. But the answer can't be to simply ban them outright."

How you get from "Zero hour contracts certainly have their place" (me)
to "if you ... think everyone should have fixed hours with a single
employer regardless of their personal circumstances" (you), I
really can't see. That's pretty much the opposite of what I actually
said.
tim...
2019-09-11 07:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee.
Everyone accepts that they can be abused, but the solution to that isn't to
ban them

The easiest solution that I can see, is simply to have a higher NMW (perhaps
50% higher) for ALL hours outside of contracted hours (that shouldn't be
interpreted as meaning contracted hours need to be fixed times)

That way "professional" zero hours contracts can continue unhindered, it
will only be the dumming down of NMW work to even lower than NWM contracts
that are stopped.

You'd soon see fixed hours contracts becoming possible again if the rate for
the job is lower that way.

And back to Yellow's example. ISTM that what she is being offered is self
employed work. Not a zero hours contract

tim



tim
pensive hamster
2019-09-11 16:52:57 UTC
Permalink
"pensive hamster" wrote in message
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee.
Everyone accepts that they can be abused, but the solution to that isn't to
ban them
Agreed.
The easiest solution that I can see, is simply to have a higher NMW (perhaps
50% higher) for ALL hours outside of contracted hours (that shouldn't be
interpreted as meaning contracted hours need to be fixed times)
Yes, that could possibly work.
That way "professional" zero hours contracts can continue unhindered, it
will only be the dumming down of NMW work to even lower than NWM contracts
that are stopped.
You'd soon see fixed hours contracts becoming possible again if the rate for
the job is lower that way.
And back to Yellow's example. ISTM that what she is being offered is self
employed work. Not a zero hours contract
Yes, that is how it seems to me, too. It rather hinges on the definitions
of employer and employee, which can sometimes be unclear (Eg.
Pimlico Plumbers case)

https://www.employmentlawwatch.com/2018/06/articles/employment-uk/supreme-court-decision-announced-in-pimlico-plumbers-case/
Yellow
2019-09-11 20:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee.
Everyone accepts that they can be abused, but the solution to that isn't to
ban them
The easiest solution that I can see, is simply to have a higher NMW (perhaps
50% higher) for ALL hours outside of contracted hours (that shouldn't be
interpreted as meaning contracted hours need to be fixed times)
That is quite a clever idea and not one I have seen before.
Yellow
2019-09-11 20:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
Maybe you have little clue about how some other people work?
I have never signed up to a zero hour contract myself, but I can
see how they might be abused in some circumstances, effectively
giving all the power to the employer, and little or none to the
employee.
Everyone accepts that they can be abused, but the solution to that isn't to
ban them
The easiest solution that I can see, is simply to have a higher NMW (perhaps
50% higher) for ALL hours outside of contracted hours (that shouldn't be
interpreted as meaning contracted hours need to be fixed times)
That way "professional" zero hours contracts can continue unhindered, it
will only be the dumming down of NMW work to even lower than NWM contracts
that are stopped.
You'd soon see fixed hours contracts becoming possible again if the rate for
the job is lower that way.
And back to Yellow's example. ISTM that what she is being offered is self
employed work. Not a zero hours contract
Actually it wasn't with a view to being self-employed and instead I
would have been working as an employee, be it on a "casual" basis.
Yellow
2019-09-12 14:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
And back to Yellow's example. ISTM that what she is being offered is self
employed work. Not a zero hours contract
Actually it wasn't with a view to being self-employed and instead I
would have been working as an employee, be it on a "casual" basis.
But it could be SE, IF Zero Hours Contracts were banned.
I guess but that nice Mr Corbyn said 'all workers' so I suspect, as of
course anyone currently on a zero hours contract could arguably be
switched to being self employed, that loophole would be closed.

You have got me thinking though..... I had an Amazon Prime delivery on
Sunday and the chap arrived in an Amazon Prime branded van, something I
have never seen before, so I got talking to him for a minute or two. He
said he was self-employed but that the vans belong to Amazon and are
issued on a first-come-first-served basis each day and they all try not
to get one of the branded ones.

Well in my day, the tax man took a very dim view of people claiming to
be self-employed when they only had one customer and they used that
customer's equipment.

So perhaps I am out of touch with what is now allowed?
So any banning wouldn't affect the ability of the employer to offer this
work or your ability to accept it
If there was no other option and I really wanted the work then yes, I
could indeed set up my own business again but I would really rather not
as it is quite a bit of hassle.

Altroy1
2019-09-11 20:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
As far as I can see, these reports are headlines gleaned from a section
of a speech itself political. Such speeches tend to be shorn of context
and nuance.

I suspect the detailed proposals would be not about banning every
type of short term or casual work.

New Zealand banned zero hours contracts, it may be worth seeing what
precisely is banned. I suspect temporary and short term work will
be still allowed. What may not be is the long term so called employment
offered by $$billionaires such as Jeff Bezos.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/11/zero-hour-contracts-banned-in-new-zealand

https://www.cips.org/en/supply-management/news/2016/march/zero-hours-contracts-outlawed-in-new-zealand/
Post by Yellow
Well I have just been offered some ad-hoc work from my previous
employer, doing some technical authoring for them.
Sounds like an opportunity for Self Employment.

NB an employee-employer releationship implies a more longer
term relationship, such as the warehouse workers employed
long term without any guaranteed hours.

But, for example, a householder arranges for his or her windows to
be cleaned for £100. The householder is not an employer and
the window cleaner is not an employee. Such arrangements
are unlikely to be affected by any ban on zero hours contracts.
Post by Yellow
I have turned it down as it happens, but the offer on the table was to
do the work as and when I wanted, at home or at their place, and I would
be paid per document produced. The only criteria being that they would
give me a date when each document was needed by, which would be agreed
before I took on each one.
How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister have so little clue about
how some people work?
But then I guess it is really about flag waving rather than getting the
people who want more hours, more hours.
Its about political statements that are not binding in law save exceptional
circumstances.
tim...
2019-09-11 20:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Altroy1
Post by Yellow
I see Corbyn is banging on again about banning zero hour contracts and
instead he has said that "all workers" would have to have contracts that
state their fixed, regular hours, under his premiership.
As far as I can see, these reports are headlines gleaned from a section
of a speech itself political. Such speeches tend to be shorn of context
and nuance.
I suspect the detailed proposals would be not about banning every
type of short term or casual work.
New Zealand banned zero hours contracts, it may be worth seeing what
precisely is banned. I suspect temporary and short term work will
be still allowed. What may not be is the long term so called employment
offered by $$billionaires such as Jeff Bezos.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/11/zero-hour-contracts-banned-in-new-zealand
https://www.cips.org/en/supply-management/news/2016/march/zero-hours-contracts-outlawed-in-new-zealand/
I just see a law that says contracts must contain a guaranteed number of
hours

so all they do is offer contracts for 5 hours and expect the rest to be done
as extra hours (as now)

Even if the employee can turn down the extra hours offered, that doesn't
help if they need 25 hour per week to pay the rent

Turn down extra hours this week, you may see them not being offered next

There needs to be better disincentives to filling in the week from "extra
hours" than this

tim
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