Discussion:
Motorways
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harry
2017-05-14 16:17:13 UTC
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Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Nightjar
2017-05-14 18:52:35 UTC
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Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
The vast majority. A breakdown that was so catastrophic as to prevent a
vehicle reaching one would probably prevent it it making it onto a hard
shoulder as well. The system has worked well in France for ages - what
look like hard shoulders are often lanes reserved for emergency
vehicles, with emergency refuges off those at intervals.
Post by harry
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
--
--

Colin Bignell
JNugent
2017-05-15 15:37:25 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
The vast majority. A breakdown that was so catastrophic as to prevent a
vehicle reaching one would probably prevent it it making it onto a hard
shoulder as well. The system has worked well in France for ages - what
look like hard shoulders are often lanes reserved for emergency
vehicles, with emergency refuges off those at intervals.
Post by harry
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the
wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).

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Nightjar
2017-05-15 15:57:32 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
The vast majority. A breakdown that was so catastrophic as to prevent a
vehicle reaching one would probably prevent it it making it onto a hard
shoulder as well. The system has worked well in France for ages - what
look like hard shoulders are often lanes reserved for emergency
vehicles, with emergency refuges off those at intervals.
Post by harry
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the
wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).
If the former hard shoulder has been incorporated into the motorway,
they would either need to reduce that on one or more lanes, or widen the
road by 18" to maintain it.
--
--

Colin Bignell
JNugent
2017-05-15 16:37:01 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
The vast majority. A breakdown that was so catastrophic as to prevent a
vehicle reaching one would probably prevent it it making it onto a hard
shoulder as well. The system has worked well in France for ages - what
look like hard shoulders are often lanes reserved for emergency
vehicles, with emergency refuges off those at intervals.
Post by harry
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the
wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).
If the former hard shoulder has been incorporated into the motorway,
they would either need to reduce that on one or more lanes, or widen the
road by 18" to maintain it.
That's correct. It is done by widening into the former grassed area on
the far side of the shoulder or by narrowing the centre reservation.

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GB
2017-05-16 11:09:10 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).
If the former hard shoulder has been incorporated into the motorway,
they would either need to reduce that on one or more lanes, or widen the
road by 18" to maintain it.
That's correct. It is done by widening into the former grassed area on
the far side of the shoulder or by narrowing the centre reservation.
So, it's an optical illusion that the lanes appear narrower?
R. Mark Clayton
2017-05-16 13:20:40 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).
If the former hard shoulder has been incorporated into the motorway,
they would either need to reduce that on one or more lanes, or widen the
road by 18" to maintain it.
That's correct. It is done by widening into the former grassed area on
the far side of the shoulder or by narrowing the centre reservation.
So, it's an optical illusion that the lanes appear narrower?
Sometimes. Sometimes not: -
https://goo.gl/maps/UgtbapXtRGk
JNugent
2017-05-16 19:28:34 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by JNugent
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
Quite possibly. Narrow lanes help keep speeds down.
They aren't narrower. The standard lane width on UK highways is 12 feet.
(from the centre of the separation lines).
If the former hard shoulder has been incorporated into the motorway,
they would either need to reduce that on one or more lanes, or widen the
road by 18" to maintain it.
That's correct. It is done by widening into the former grassed area on
the far side of the shoulder or by narrowing the centre reservation.
So, it's an optical illusion that the lanes appear narrower?
If it is, it isn't one I've noticed.

I suppose the lack of a shoulder and the narrower centre reservation
could make it look that way.

pullgees
2017-05-15 08:00:18 UTC
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Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
I travel the M3 regularly. The M3 road improvement scheme is never ending and has been going on for years with a 50mph, average speed cameras. It just keeps growing without any one stretch getting completed, now about 15 miles long. All you see are small pockets of workmen here and there, miles apart. If it was China it would have been all done in a month.
Handsome Jack
2017-05-15 10:36:24 UTC
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Post by pullgees
Post by harry
Reunion.
Drove "oop North" to school reunion.
(I haven't been on the motorways for years)
90% of the hard shoulders have disappeared. Converted to an extra lane.
Replaced by "Refuges" about a mile apart.
I wonder how many people make it to one of them if they break down?.
Must be chaos if one doesn't.
Very heavy traffic both ways. Four lane highways make being in the
wrong lane much more dodgy.
I'm sure the lanes are narrower too.
I travel the M3 regularly. The M3 road improvement scheme is never
ending and has been going on for years with a 50mph, average speed
cameras. It just keeps growing without any one stretch getting
completed, now about 15 miles long. All you see are small pockets of
workmen here and there, miles apart. If it was China it would have been
all done in a month.
A friend of mine (who also uses the M3 a lot) tells me he's heard it's
going to be finished next month. Uh-huh.
--
Jack
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