Discussion:
Yulia Skripal
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Judith
2018-04-07 09:40:38 UTC
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Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been calculated yet?
tim...
2018-04-07 09:54:14 UTC
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"Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
>
>
> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been calculated
> yet?

I was wondering that :-)

Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption

tim
GB
2018-04-07 11:23:47 UTC
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On 07/04/2018 10:54, tim... wrote:
>
>
> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>> calculated yet?
>
> I was wondering that :-)
>
> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption



Going off at a tangent, it's interesting that Putin was unable to kill
the Skripals, but he managed to kill their two guinea pigs and their
cat. It seems an awful lot of trouble to have gone to for that, but I
assume that some KGB agent now has carved three very, very small notches
in the grip of his pistol.
Fredxx
2018-04-07 19:34:41 UTC
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On 07/04/2018 12:23, GB wrote:
> On 07/04/2018 10:54, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>>> calculated yet?
>>
>> I was wondering that :-)
>>
>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
>> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption
>
>
>
> Going off at a tangent, it's interesting that Putin was unable to kill
> the Skripals, but he managed to kill their two guinea pigs and their
> cat. It seems an awful lot of trouble to have gone to for that, but I
> assume that some KGB agent now has carved three very, very small notches
> in the grip of his pistol.

The cat was put down and I assumed the guinea pigs died from starvation.

I'm not sure how that would affect the career of a KGB agent?
GB
2018-04-08 10:28:17 UTC
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On 07/04/2018 20:34, Fredxx wrote:
> On 07/04/2018 12:23, GB wrote:

>>
>> Going off at a tangent, it's interesting that Putin was unable to kill
>> the Skripals, but he managed to kill their two guinea pigs and their
>> cat. It seems an awful lot of trouble to have gone to for that, but I
>> assume that some KGB agent now has carved three very, very small
>> notches in the grip of his pistol.
>
> The cat was put down and I assumed the guinea pigs died from starvation.
>
> I'm not sure how that would affect the career of a KGB agent?
>

It might not be very good for his career. He managed to poison a police
sergeant and around 30 civilians, whilst his intended victims have
recovered. He only actually managed to kill two guinea pigs and a cat.
Fredxx
2018-04-08 10:36:00 UTC
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On 08/04/2018 11:28, GB wrote:
> On 07/04/2018 20:34, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 07/04/2018 12:23, GB wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Going off at a tangent, it's interesting that Putin was unable to
>>> kill the Skripals, but he managed to kill their two guinea pigs and
>>> their cat. It seems an awful lot of trouble to have gone to for that,
>>> but I assume that some KGB agent now has carved three very, very
>>> small notches in the grip of his pistol.
>>
>> The cat was put down and I assumed the guinea pigs died from starvation.
>>
>> I'm not sure how that would affect the career of a KGB agent?
>>
>
> It might not be very good for his career. He managed to poison a police
> sergeant and around 30 civilians, whilst his intended victims have
> recovered. He only actually managed to kill two guinea pigs and a cat.

The point I was making is, he didn't kill the cat, and we have no idea
what killed the guinea pigs. The most likely cause is starvation. All
deaths directly caused by UK action and inaction.

The cat was put down presumably to test the cat for nerve agent. The
fact we haven't heard anything suggests they didn't find anything sinister.

News items suggests the guinea pigs 'died' and were not killed by the UK
authorities, nor by any nerve agent.
Norman Wells
2018-04-08 11:34:37 UTC
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On 08/04/2018 11:36, Fredxx wrote:
> On 08/04/2018 11:28, GB wrote:
>> On 07/04/2018 20:34, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2018 12:23, GB wrote:
>>
>>>> Going off at a tangent, it's interesting that Putin was unable to
>>>> kill the Skripals, but he managed to kill their two guinea pigs and
>>>> their cat. It seems an awful lot of trouble to have gone to for
>>>> that, but I assume that some KGB agent now has carved three very,
>>>> very small notches in the grip of his pistol.
>>>
>>> The cat was put down and I assumed the guinea pigs died from starvation.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how that would affect the career of a KGB agent?
>>
>> It might not be very good for his career. He managed to poison a
>> police sergeant and around 30 civilians,

Did he? Where are the '30 civilians' mentioned?

>> whilst his intended victims have recovered. He only actually managed to kill
>> two guinea pigs and a cat.
>
> The point I was making is, he didn't kill the cat, and we have no idea
> what killed the guinea pigs. The most likely cause is starvation.

Thirst actually.

> All deaths directly caused by UK action and inaction.

Or, sensibly, sealing off a potentially lethal crime scene, leaving the
guinea pigs and the cat, even if they were known about, to their fate
rather than risk further human fatalities.

> The cat was put down presumably to test the cat for nerve agent. The
> fact we haven't heard anything suggests they didn't find anything sinister.

Maybe it wasn't in the habit of using the front door and closing it
behind it.
GB
2018-04-08 12:26:48 UTC
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On 08/04/2018 12:34, Norman Wells wrote:

> Or, sensibly, sealing off a potentially lethal crime scene, leaving the
> guinea pigs and the cat, even if they were known about, to their fate
> rather than risk further human fatalities.


Quite. Clearly, a more or less foreseeable result of the KGB agent's
actions. However, if you think he shouldn't take credit for the kills,
I'll certainly accept that it's debatable.

I'm pretty sure he'd prefer his record said: "March 2018: Launched nerve
agent attack on traitor. Three dead."
Nightjar
2018-04-09 08:34:40 UTC
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On 08-Apr-18 12:34 PM, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 08/04/2018 11:36, Fredxx wrote:
...
>>> It might not be very good for his career. He managed to poison a
>>> police sergeant and around 30 civilians,
>
> Did he?  Where are the '30 civilians' mentioned?...

The figure varies from at least 21 treated in hospital, to 50 assessed
for effects, to 130 thought to have been exposed.



--
--

Colin Bignell
Nightjar
2018-04-09 08:24:48 UTC
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On 08-Apr-18 11:36 AM, Fredxx wrote:
...
> The cat was put down presumably to test the cat for nerve agent.

They didn't have to kill the Skripals to test them for nerve agent. The
cat was almost certainly put down because it was suffering.

> News items suggests the guinea pigs 'died' and were not killed by the UK
> authorities, nor by any nerve agent.

You really trust reporters to get facts completely right?


--
--

Colin Bignell
Fredxx
2018-04-09 15:13:43 UTC
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On 09/04/2018 09:24, Nightjar wrote:
> On 08-Apr-18 11:36 AM, Fredxx wrote:
> ...
>> The cat was put down presumably to test the cat for nerve agent.
>
> They didn't have to kill the Skripals to test them for nerve agent. The
> cat was almost certainly put down because it was suffering.
>
>> News items suggests the guinea pigs 'died' and were not killed by the
>> UK authorities, nor by any nerve agent.
>
> You really trust reporters to get facts completely right?

Since you haven't cited any source, yes, especially when the "guinea
pigs died" is mentioned in more than one report and nothing to suggest
they died from anything other than hunger.

For once the Russians are on the ball, and the UK authorities have
nothing to counter their questioning of how the guinea pigs died, apart
from 'neglect'.
GB
2018-04-09 17:43:24 UTC
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On 09/04/2018 16:13, Fredxx wrote:

> Since you haven't cited any source, yes, especially when the "guinea
> pigs died" is mentioned in more than one report and nothing to suggest
> they died from anything other than hunger.
>
> For once the Russians are on the ball, and the UK authorities have
> nothing to counter their questioning of how the guinea pigs died, apart
> from 'neglect'.

I think you are taking my little joke just a bit too seriously, and I'm
99.9% sure that the Russians have not not commented on the guinea pigicide.

Of course, the pets died from neglect as an immediate cause. However,
that neglect was due to a nerve agent having been applied to the front
door of the house and the police deciding to shut the place up until
they were quite sure they were adequately protected.
Fredxx
2018-04-09 20:20:28 UTC
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On 09/04/2018 18:43, GB wrote:
> On 09/04/2018 16:13, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> Since you haven't cited any source, yes, especially when the "guinea
>> pigs died" is mentioned in more than one report and nothing to suggest
>> they died from anything other than hunger.
>>
>> For once the Russians are on the ball, and the UK authorities have
>> nothing to counter their questioning of how the guinea pigs died,
>> apart from 'neglect'.
>
> I think you are taking my little joke just a bit too seriously, and I'm
> 99.9% sure that the Russians have not not commented on the guinea pigicide.

They do say many a true word is said in jest, even if accidental!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/06/russia-claims-a-poisoned-spys-dead-cat-and-guinea-pigs-hold-clues-to-british-conspiracy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.676d51db65be


> Of course, the pets died from neglect as an immediate cause. However,
> that neglect was due to a nerve agent having been applied to the front
> door of the house and the police deciding to shut the place up until
> they were quite sure they were adequately protected.

There have been a number of stories of how the nerve agent was applied,
but the door handle seems to be current favourite.

There was a second cat which has not been found.
GB
2018-04-09 21:16:49 UTC
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On 09/04/2018 21:20, Fredxx wrote:
> On 09/04/2018 18:43, GB wrote:
>> On 09/04/2018 16:13, Fredxx wrote:
>>
>>> Since you haven't cited any source, yes, especially when the "guinea
>>> pigs died" is mentioned in more than one report and nothing to
>>> suggest they died from anything other than hunger.
>>>
>>> For once the Russians are on the ball, and the UK authorities have
>>> nothing to counter their questioning of how the guinea pigs died,
>>> apart from 'neglect'.
>>
>> I think you are taking my little joke just a bit too seriously, and
>> I'm 99.9% sure that the Russians have not not commented on the guinea
>> pigicide.
>
> They do say many a true word is said in jest, even if accidental!
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/06/russia-claims-a-poisoned-spys-dead-cat-and-guinea-pigs-hold-clues-to-british-conspiracy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.676d51db65be
>

Ah, lovely! The Russians are continuing the farce. Let's face it, Putin
has blood on his hands. A couple of guinea pigs more or less make no
difference.

>
>
>> Of course, the pets died from neglect as an immediate cause. However,
>> that neglect was due to a nerve agent having been applied to the front
>> door of the house and the police deciding to shut the place up until
>> they were quite sure they were adequately protected.
>
> There have been a number of stories of how the nerve agent was applied,
> but the door handle seems to be current favourite.
>
> There was a second cat which has not been found.

It's either lucky, and it's found a lovely new home, or it touched the
front door knob and died under a hedge.

The odd thing is how mundane Skripal's life had become. He used to be a
colonel in military intelligence, who did a little double agenting on
the side. I mean, how glamorous is that! Then he ended up in a neat semi
in Southampton, with a horseshoe incongruously nailed to the plastic
front door. (Right way up, to keep the luck in.) He kept two cats and
two guinea pigs, and his chief pastime seems to have been having a pint
or two in the local restaurants. If they hadn't poisoned him, he'd have
died of boredom soon, anyway.
Nightjar
2018-04-07 11:27:10 UTC
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On 07-Apr-18 10:54 AM, tim... wrote:
>
>
> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>> calculated yet?
>
> I was wondering that :-)
>
> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption

Assuming she doesn't have travel health insurance.

--
--

Colin Bignell
Judith
2018-04-12 11:24:30 UTC
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On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 12:27:10 +0100, Nightjar <***@bignell.me.uk> wrote:

>On 07-Apr-18 10:54 AM, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>>> calculated yet?
>>
>> I was wondering that :-)
>>
>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
>> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption
>
>Assuming she doesn't have travel health insurance.


Yes - perhaps there is a special clause:

"This insurance covers all claim arising from war; invasion; act of a foreign
enemy; hostilities (whether war be declared or not); civil war; rebellion;
terrorism; revolution; insurrection; civil commotion"

That will be £5 extra on the cost, sir.
Jethro_uk
2018-04-07 15:10:21 UTC
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On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 10:54:14 +0100, tim... wrote:

> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>> calculated yet?
>
> I was wondering that :-)
>
> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption
>
> tim

Maybe as a victim of crime (and the implicit failure of the UK to provide
a safe environment) maybe it's on us ?
tim...
2018-04-07 19:18:22 UTC
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"Jethro_uk" <***@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message
news:paan0t$d7a$***@dont-email.me...
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 10:54:14 +0100, tim... wrote:
>
>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>>> calculated yet?
>>
>> I was wondering that :-)
>>
>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
>> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption
>>
>> tim
>
> Maybe as a victim of crime (and the implicit failure of the UK to provide
> a safe environment) maybe it's on us ?

it's on us anyway, as even if she is legally required to pay it,
realistically she isn't going to be able to

tim
pamela
2018-04-08 09:59:54 UTC
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On 16:10 7 Apr 2018, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 10:54:14 +0100, tim... wrote:
>
>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>>> calculated yet?
>>
>> I was wondering that :-)
>>
>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor
>> subject to torture" (the most applicable one on the list)
>> exemption
>>
>> tim
>
> Maybe as a victim of crime (and the implicit failure of the UK to
> provide a safe environment) maybe it's on us ?

Maybe we picked up their healthcare costs as part of the spy swap
which got the Skripals here in the first place.

The father did spy for the UK, so maybe we are obliged to make good
any damages he incurred as a result.
Jethro_uk
2018-04-09 10:06:34 UTC
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On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 10:59:54 +0100, pamela wrote:

> On 16:10 7 Apr 2018, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 10:54:14 +0100, tim... wrote:
>>
>>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been
>>>> calculated yet?
>>>
>>> I was wondering that :-)
>>>
>>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor subject to
>>> torture" (the most applicable one on the list) exemption
>>>
>>> tim
>>
>> Maybe as a victim of crime (and the implicit failure of the UK to
>> provide a safe environment) maybe it's on us ?
>
> Maybe we picked up their healthcare costs as part of the spy swap which
> got the Skripals here in the first place.
>
> The father did spy for the UK, so maybe we are obliged to make good any
> damages he incurred as a result.

Shame they weren't a bit more tanned. Then we could have kicked them to
the kerb like the Iraqis who risked their lives helping our troops.
pamela
2018-04-09 10:27:08 UTC
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On 11:06 9 Apr 2018, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 10:59:54 +0100, pamela wrote:
>
>> On 16:10 7 Apr 2018, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 10:54:14 +0100, tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Judith" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has
>>>>> been calculated yet?
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering that :-)
>>>>
>>>> Though it could be that she falls into the "foreign visitor
>>>> subject to torture" (the most applicable one on the list)
>>>> exemption
>>>>
>>>> tim
>>>
>>> Maybe as a victim of crime (and the implicit failure of the UK
>>> to provide a safe environment) maybe it's on us ?
>>
>> Maybe we picked up their healthcare costs as part of the spy swap
>> which got the Skripals here in the first place.
>>
>> The father did spy for the UK, so maybe we are obliged to make
>> good any damages he incurred as a result.
>
> Shame they weren't a bit more tanned. Then we could have kicked
> them to the kerb like the Iraqis who risked their lives helping
> our troops.

We should be ashamed. We currently let in extended families from
palces like the Indian subcontinent who themselves bring in a chain of
dubious relatives most of whom never develop any allegiance to this
country, while ignoring those from Iraq who risked their lives to
assist us and now live in peril.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-04-08 11:12:14 UTC
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On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:40:42 UTC+1, Judith wrote:
> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been calculated yet?

It was emergency treatment, which is not AFAIK chargeable.

In any event it might fall on the CICB.
The Todal
2018-04-08 12:01:56 UTC
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On 08/04/2018 12:12, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:40:42 UTC+1, Judith wrote:
>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been calculated yet?
>
> It was emergency treatment, which is not AFAIK chargeable.

After a bit of googling I've come to the provisional conclusion that
emergency hospital treatment is free for all but that does not include
admission to hospital. So she may have to pay, and of course she might
have travel insurance that covers it.


>
> In any event it might fall on the CICB.
>

The CICA. And the process of putting in a claim and having it processed
would probably take months.
Nightjar
2018-04-08 15:47:23 UTC
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On 08-Apr-18 12:12 PM, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:40:42 UTC+1, Judith wrote:
>> Does anyone know if the bill to paid by her to the NHS has been calculated yet?
>
> It was emergency treatment, which is not AFAIK chargeable...

Treatment in A&E is not chargeable. However, if that results in an
overseas visitor being admitted as an inpatient, all subsequent
treatment is chargeable.

--
--

Colin Bignell
Phi
2018-04-09 19:25:57 UTC
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"GB" <***@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:pag8nt$9so$***@dont-email.me...
> On 09/04/2018 16:13, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> Since you haven't cited any source, yes, especially when the "guinea pigs
>> died" is mentioned in more than one report and nothing to suggest they
>> died from anything other than hunger.
>>
>> For once the Russians are on the ball, and the UK authorities have
>> nothing to counter their questioning of how the guinea pigs died, apart
>> from 'neglect'.
>
> I think you are taking my little joke just a bit too seriously, and I'm
> 99.9% sure that the Russians have not not commented on the guinea
> pigicide.
>
> Of course, the pets died from neglect as an immediate cause. However, that
> neglect was due to a nerve agent having been applied to the front door of
> the house and the police deciding to shut the place up until they were
> quite sure they were adequately protected.


It's a good job there was nobody else in the house.
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