Discussion:
NHS wants to charge a patient 54k for cancer treatment
(too old to reply)
The Todal
2018-03-11 12:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.

Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth

Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.

Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.

The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
pamela
2018-03-11 12:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa. This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.

Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.

He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
The Todal
2018-03-11 12:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa. This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
You imply that anyone who doesn't have a British passport isn't a
British citizen. Many people don't bother to apply for a passport. It
costs money.

The fault, if fault there is, lies entirely with the British government.
I know you'd like to think that all these people are gangsters and
benefits scroungers. But our country encouraged huge numbers to come
from the Caribbean to work in our NHS - seemingly without caring whether
they should be given full citizenship rights and the means to prove it.
A quick google search tells you that all Jamaicans who came to the UK
prior to Jamaican Independence in 1962 were automatically granted
British citizenship because Jamaica was an overseas colony of the country.

It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
pamela
2018-03-11 13:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove
to our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For
them, it's worse than living in America because there's no free
cancer treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says
he is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed
on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal
around the treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who
arrived in the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This
cohort grew up believing themselves to be British, only to
discover in a rapidly hardening immigration climate that they
need documentary proof of their right to be here, which many do
not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago
Jamaicans could enter the UK without a visa. This open door
arrangement resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists,
benefits scroungers and illegal immigrants to come here
unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged
during his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the
local authority should review whether he should repay the
subsidised housing they used to provide him with at other
taxpayers' expense.
You imply that anyone who doesn't have a British passport isn't a
British citizen. Many people don't bother to apply for a passport.
It costs money.
The fault, if fault there is, lies entirely with the British
government. I know you'd like to think that all these people are
gangsters and benefits scroungers. But our country encouraged huge
numbers to come from the Caribbean to work in our NHS - seemingly
without caring whether they should be given full citizenship
rights and the means to prove it. A quick google search tells you
that all Jamaicans who came to the UK prior to Jamaican
Independence in 1962 were automatically granted British
citizenship because Jamaica was an overseas colony of the country.
It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your
papers are not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful
policy.
Yes, there was all that Windrush effort to import labour to rebuild
the UK after the war but that should not have extended for decades
of visa free travel to the UK which got exploited by all manner of
Jamaican freeloaders and villains until the concession had to be
removed over a decade ago.

Mr Thompson slipped in before then but has now been challenged.
Seems fair enough to me. As far as I know, the UK has never granted
an amnesty in recent times to illegal immigrants which means they
remain illegal.

The question if rights of residency and the subtly different types
of British passport came into the news with the return of Hong Kong
to China. However this particular case is diferet because Mr
Thompson doesn't have a British passport of any sort and I don't
imagine he's entitled to one either.
Yellow
2018-03-11 14:08:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa. This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
You imply that anyone who doesn't have a British passport isn't a
British citizen. Many people don't bother to apply for a passport. It
costs money.
The fault, if fault there is, lies entirely with the British government.
I know you'd like to think that all these people are gangsters and
benefits scroungers. But our country encouraged huge numbers to come
from the Caribbean to work in our NHS - seemingly without caring whether
they should be given full citizenship rights and the means to prove it.
A quick google search tells you that all Jamaicans who came to the UK
prior to Jamaican Independence in 1962 were automatically granted
British citizenship because Jamaica was an overseas colony of the country.
It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
I agree with that final sentence 100%.
Ian Jackson
2018-03-11 17:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
I agree with that final sentence 100%.
+100%.
--
Ian
JNugent
2018-03-11 17:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
I agree with that final sentence 100%.
+100%.
If only it were just to do with there being some mistake in the
paperwork, as some like to try to assert by using the word
"undocumented" rather than the correct terms "illegal" and/or "criminal".
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa.  This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport.  As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
You imply that anyone who doesn't have a British passport isn't a
British citizen. Many people don't bother to apply for a passport. It
costs money.
I took pamela's statement to have a different and much more direct
meaning. It means that anyone who isn't British isn't British. Having a
passport is at best tangential to that. As you say, Many British people
don't have passports.

The bloke himself admits that he's *not* British.
Post by The Todal
The fault, if fault there is, lies entirely with the British government.
I know you'd like to think that all these people are gangsters and
benefits scroungers. But our country encouraged huge numbers to come
from the Caribbean to work in our NHS - seemingly without caring whether
they should be given full citizenship rights and the means to prove it.
The chap in question says that he was a mechanic, not a doctor, nurse or
orderly. I suppose he might have worked on ambulances, thus entitling
him to elevation to The Todal's Hall of NHS Sainthood.
Post by The Todal
A quick google search tells you that all Jamaicans who came to the UK
prior to Jamaican Independence in 1962 were automatically granted
British citizenship because Jamaica was an overseas colony of the country.
<looks at calendar>

That was a long time ago.
Post by The Todal
It's a mess that our government should sort out.
To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
How many millions of foreigners per annum should be afforded hundreds of
thousands of poundsworth each of free NHS treatment, in your submission?
Fredxx
2018-03-11 23:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa.  This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport.  As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
You imply that anyone who doesn't have a British passport isn't a
British citizen. Many people don't bother to apply for a passport. It
costs money.
The fault, if fault there is, lies entirely with the British government.
I know you'd like to think that all these people are gangsters and
benefits scroungers. But our country encouraged huge numbers to come
from the Caribbean to work in our NHS - seemingly without caring whether
they should be given full citizenship rights and the means to prove it.
A quick google search tells you that all Jamaicans who came to the UK
prior to Jamaican Independence in 1962 were automatically granted
British citizenship because Jamaica was an overseas colony of the country.
It's a mess that our government should sort out. To say "your papers are
not in order and you're on your own" is a disgraceful policy.
I tend to agree with you. There should have been a duty of care by the
government when someone is given a NI No and working, they are notified
of their rights to remain and and what access they had to the services
they were paying into.
pensive hamster
2018-03-12 00:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxx
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
[...]
Post by Fredxx
I tend to agree with you. There should have been a duty of care by the
government when someone is given a NI No and working, they are notified
of their rights to remain and and what access they had to the services
they were paying into.
Molly Dineen has made a new documentary, to be broadcast
on Monday, about someone possibly slightly similar to
Thompson, who was born in Jamaica, and moved with his
family to Britain when he was nine.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/04/blacker-dread-documentary-molly-dineen

Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero

Being Blacker will be shown on BBC2 on 12 March at 9pm
pamela
2018-03-12 12:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Fredxx
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our
own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK
who have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to
prove to our government that they are entitled to NHS
treatment. For them, it's worse than living in America
because there's no free cancer treatment available no matter
how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived
from Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a
mechanic and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home
Office is disputing his eligibility to remain.
[...]
Post by Fredxx
I tend to agree with you. There should have been a duty of care
by the government when someone is given a NI No and working, they
are notified
of their rights to remain and and what access they had to the
services they were paying into.
Molly Dineen has made a new documentary, to be broadcast
on Monday, about someone possibly slightly similar to
Thompson, who was born in Jamaica, and moved with his
family to Britain when he was nine.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/04/blacker-
dread-documentary-molly-dineen
Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero
Being Blacker will be shown on BBC2 on 12 March at 9pm
Your link says Jamaican-born British-educated Mr Blacker is a self
confessed money launderer who went to prison. There's nothing to
say he's an illegal immigrant.
JNugent
2018-03-12 15:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pamela
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Fredxx
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our
own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK
who have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to
prove to our government that they are entitled to NHS
treatment. For them, it's worse than living in America
because there's no free cancer treatment available no matter
how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived
from Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a
mechanic and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home
Office is disputing his eligibility to remain.
[...]
Post by Fredxx
I tend to agree with you. There should have been a duty of care
by the government when someone is given a NI No and working, they
are notified
of their rights to remain and and what access they had to the
services they were paying into.
Molly Dineen has made a new documentary, to be broadcast
on Monday, about someone possibly slightly similar to
Thompson, who was born in Jamaica, and moved with his
family to Britain when he was nine.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/04/blacker-
dread-documentary-molly-dineen
Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero
Being Blacker will be shown on BBC2 on 12 March at 9pm
Your link says Jamaican-born British-educated Mr Blacker is a self
confessed money launderer who went to prison. There's nothing to
say he's an illegal immigrant.
Or a legal one.
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to
our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them,
it's worse than living in America because there's no free cancer
treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says he
is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on
legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in
the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew
up believing themselves to be British, only to discover in a
rapidly hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago Jamaicans
could enter the UK without a visa. This open door arrangement
resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists, benefits scroungers
and illegal immigrants to come here unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged during
his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the local
authority should review whether he should repay the subsidised
housing they used to provide him with at other taxpayers' expense.
There's a lot of sense in that.
pamela
2018-03-11 17:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove
to our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For
them, it's worse than living in America because there's no free
cancer treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from
Jamaica as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic
and paid taxes for more than three decades, the Home Office is
disputing his eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being
evicted last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His
disputed status has also led to free healthcare being denied.
Because he has no savings and no way of paying £54,000, he says
he is not receiving the cancer treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed
on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal
around the treatment by the Home Office of a group of people who
arrived in the UK as children from Commonwealth countries. This
cohort grew up believing themselves to be British, only to
discover in a rapidly hardening immigration climate that they
need documentary proof of their right to be here, which many do
not have.
The article omits to mention that until about 15 years ago
Jamaicans could enter the UK without a visa. This open door
arrangement resulted in Jamaican Yardies, health tourists,
benefits scroungers and illegal immigrants to come here
unchallenged.
Maybe Mr Thompson believed he had full access to British social,
housing and health services because he wasn't ever challenged
during his prolonged visit here.
He's not a British citizen because he doesn't have a British
passport. As Mr Thompson is a visiting Jamaican perhaps the
local authority should review whether he should repay the
subsidised housing they used to provide him with at other
taxpayers' expense.
There's a lot of sense in that.
The man is an illegal immigrant who eventually got rumbled.

When Mr Thompson came here in 1974 I am sure he wasn't told he could
stay and work for as long as he liked and use the health service
when he liked, all because he didn't need a visa on arrival.

There is no statute of limitations in this country and there has
been no amnesty for illegals.
--
The wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car
Yellow
2018-03-11 14:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
I read this yesterday but was left frustrated that the article did not
explain why the "authorities" think this gentleman has no right to be in
the UK nor why it has not been sorted out as surely he can show more-or-
less how long he has been here.

Did he go to school in the UK for example? And if he has paid NI, he
must have a record for that.

And it says he says he has lost his original passport from Jamaica, but
surely they would have record there of his birth? Or the fact a passport
was indeed once issued.

If it is true, as reported, then it is 'dreadful' and 'something must be
done' but there just seems to be too many plot holes to take the story,
as reported, at face value.
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-11 14:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
I read this yesterday but was left frustrated that the article did not
explain why the "authorities" think this gentleman has no right to be in
the UK nor why it has not been sorted out as surely he can show more-or-
less how long he has been here.
Did he go to school in the UK for example? And if he has paid NI, he
must have a record for that.
And it says he says he has lost his original passport from Jamaica, but
surely they would have record there of his birth? Or the fact a passport
was indeed once issued.
If it is true, as reported, then it is 'dreadful' and 'something must be
done' but there just seems to be too many plot holes to take the story,
as reported, at face value.
This is true.

It sounds hard and callous but of course it is absolutely necessary to see
that anyone in receipt of 'free' healthcare in this country has the
necessary entitlement. Otherwise potentially we become really free
healthcare providers to the entire planet.
tim...
2018-03-11 15:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BurfordTJustice
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
I read this yesterday but was left frustrated that the article did not
explain why the "authorities" think this gentleman has no right to be in
the UK nor why it has not been sorted out as surely he can show more-or-
less how long he has been here.
Did he go to school in the UK for example? And if he has paid NI, he
must have a record for that.
And it says he says he has lost his original passport from Jamaica, but
surely they would have record there of his birth? Or the fact a passport
was indeed once issued.
If it is true, as reported, then it is 'dreadful' and 'something must be
done' but there just seems to be too many plot holes to take the story,
as reported, at face value.
This is true.
It sounds hard and callous but of course it is absolutely necessary to see
that anyone in receipt of 'free' healthcare in this country has the
necessary entitlement. Otherwise potentially we become really free
healthcare providers to the entire planet.
but we have a system that doesn't offer treatment on the basis of birth, but
on the basis of ordinary residence

It's possible to have a UK passport and not be entitled to HNS care, and
it's possible to be ordinary resident here and not have a UK passport.

so asking for this document, as proof or entitlement, at the hospital
entrance is just silly.

tim
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-11 14:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hold the bucket!

bod and poo will be along to straighten this out for you.



"The Todal" <***@icloud.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
: We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
: treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
:
: Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
: lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
: government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
: than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
: available no matter how poor they are.
:
:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
:
: Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
: as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
: for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
: eligibility to remain.
:
: Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
: last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
: has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
: and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
: treatment he needs.
:
: The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
: advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
: by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
: children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
: themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
: immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
: be here, which many do not have.
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-11 19:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks to your best butt bud obama

All groups restored to help spread your vast google grouper knowledge
to the unwashed masses.

Stop trying to hide, stand tall little man and preach it
loud and strong.



.



"trader_4" <***@optonline.net> wrote in message news:ee1fff65-1f58-4935-8b49-***@googlegroups.com...
: On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 10:38:45 AM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
:
:
: As opposed to the US, where people are paying $54K for health insurance
: over just a few years, even though they don't have cancer or any other
: health problems. And you're complaining about the UK?
:
:
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-11 21:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
All groups restored to help spread your vast google grouper knowledge
to the unwashed masses.

Stop trying to hide, stand tall little man and preach it
loud and strong.



To quote trader,'you are talking out your ass now:

Bet your first name is "anthony" LOL


"trader_4" <***@optonline.net> wrote in message news:a8213837-438b-4dfd-9f7f-***@googlegroups.com...
: On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 3:44:05 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
: > Thanks to your best butt bud obama
:
: Another lie. Obama addressed healthcare because there already was
: a crisis, with healthcare costs and insurance costs rapidly
: escalating to the point that average people can't afford it.
: Whatever the flaws in Obamacare, at least OBama made an honest
: effort to try to do something. Trump? He's had 14 months, with
: a GOP Congress and what's his plan? What has he done? Besides
: kicking the stuffing out of OBamacare, NOTHING. Nothing has been
: done to address the rising costs of healthcare. And as the results
: of that become obvious, Trump will take the heat for making a bad
: situation worse.
:
: And I know you or another trumptard will say, let people pay for
: their own insurance. That's a swell idea, but the problem is that
: insurance is prohibitively expensive so people can't afford it.
: For example, a good friend of mine is on a group plan for a small
: business. The cost of insurance for a year for him, his wife and
: one child? $32K a year. And that's with no serious medical problems
: and an average plan. The better plan is $45K a year. There is
: your healthcare and health insurance problem.
:
tim...
2018-03-11 15:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment available
no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
yes I saw this

I really don't understand why a 40 year record of NI payments (the article
said that he worked, so he ought to have that) is not sufficient proof of
entitlement

tim
abelard
2018-03-11 16:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment available
no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
yes I saw this
I really don't understand why a 40 year record of NI payments (the article
said that he worked, so he ought to have that) is not sufficient proof of
entitlement
it's .....the groaniad!
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's
worse than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
yes I saw this
I really don't understand why a 40 year record of NI payments (the
article said that he worked, so he ought to have that) is not sufficient
proof of entitlement
There has to be more to the story than has been stated.
pamela
2018-03-11 17:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to
provide treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own
citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who
have lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove
to our government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For
them, it's worse than living in America because there's no free
cancer treatment available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-
nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
yes I saw this
I really don't understand why a 40 year record of NI payments (the
article said that he worked, so he ought to have that) is not
sufficient proof of entitlement
tim
There is no arrangement which says illegals paying UK taxes are
entitled use the NHS, have the right of residency and can benefit
from subsidised accomodation.

There are plenty of Ethiopians, Afghans, Nigerians, Libyans and
various others who would love it if that were the case.
BurfordTJustice
2018-03-11 19:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
cause a government employee said otherwise...

Case closed.


"tim..." <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:p83ip4$311$***@dont-email.me...
:
:
: "The Todal" <***@icloud.com> wrote in message
: news:***@mid.individual.net...
: > We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
: > treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
: >
: > Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
: > lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
: > government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
: > than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available
: > no matter how poor they are.
: >
: >
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
: >
:
:
: yes I saw this
:
: I really don't understand why a 40 year record of NI payments (the article
: said that he worked, so he ought to have that) is not sufficient proof of
: entitlement
:
: tim
:
:
:
roadwork
2018-03-11 16:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"10 Oct 2013 - The home secretary, Theresa May, has defended plans to
create a 'hostile environment' for illegal migrants to Britain"
JNugent
2018-03-11 16:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
The question, surely, can never be what *they* believed, but has to be
about what the British state has reason to believe, about their
immigration status?

I'm sure that this is a hard case, but there's nothing to stop anyone,
from anywhere in the world, claiming that they have always believed that
they are a citizen (even though they're not).
harry
2018-03-11 18:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
We're all opposed to "health tourism" and we want our NHS to provide
treatment that's free at the point of use, for our own citizens.
Here's a worrying new phenomenon. There are people in the UK who have
lived here for most of their lives but are unable to prove to our
government that they are entitled to NHS treatment. For them, it's worse
than living in America because there's no free cancer treatment
available no matter how poor they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth
Thompson has lived in London for 44 years, having arrived from Jamaica
as a teenager, and although he has worked as a mechanic and paid taxes
for more than three decades, the Home Office is disputing his
eligibility to remain.
Official suspicion about his immigration status led to him being evicted
last summer, and he was homeless for three weeks. His disputed status
has also led to free healthcare being denied. Because he has no savings
and no way of paying £54,000, he says he is not receiving the cancer
treatment he needs.
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Handsome Jack
2018-03-13 12:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
JNugent
2018-03-13 16:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
"they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which many do
not have"

To be accurate, none of the people in this gentleman's "cohort" will
have such documentation. That's because it (the documentation) does not
exist, by definition. And their lack of rights is not caused by any lack
of paperwork.

Their lack of rights as a citizen and their lack of paperwork are both
caused by the same thing, which is that they are not UK citizens.

How simple can it be?

So...
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
It certainly isn't fair to the citizenry of the UK.
The Todal
2018-03-13 19:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
"they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which many do
not have"
To be accurate, none of the people in this gentleman's "cohort" will
have such documentation. That's because it (the documentation) does not
exist, by definition. And their lack of rights is not caused by any lack
of paperwork.
Their lack of rights as a citizen and their lack of paperwork are both
caused by the same thing, which is that they are not UK citizens.
How simple can it be?
So...
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
It certainly isn't fair to the citizenry of the UK.
I'm sure many Leave supporters will think as you do. Everyone's trying
to scam us and have a free ride at our expense. Damn those Jamaican
immigrants with their many years of faithful service to our nation and
the huge amount of taxes they have paid - it counts for nothing because
they've failed to fill in the right form at the right time. Let's treat
them like criminals.

However, most decent citizens of our country don't think like that.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/homeless-cancer-patient-with-no-passport-was-told-to-pay-54-000-ttmf2f802

"The British Medical Association condemned the handling of Mr Thompson’s
case as “morally indefensible” and Dr Sarah Wollaston, chairwoman of the
Commons health select committee, said she was very concerned. “The right
thing to do is to start the treatment and then sort out why this case
has arisen,” Ms Wollaston told The Guardian.

The Royal Marsden Hospital, the specialist cancer unit in London where
Mr Thompson sought treatment, has apologised for the “distress and
uncertainty” caused and said it was working to resolve the situation as
quickly as possible."

"Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chairman of the BMA council, said: “It’s hard to
conceive how people who have lived in the UK for decades could be
treated as visiting from overseas and not as an “ordinary resident”
eligible for free NHS care. Patients who’ve received diagnoses as
serious as cancer are already distressed, and it’s morally indefensible
to allow these people to agonise about whether any delay to their care
could mean the difference between life and death.” "
pamela
2018-03-14 12:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed
on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal
around the treatment by the Home Office of a group of people
who arrived in the UK as children from Commonwealth countries.
This cohort grew up believing themselves to be British, only
to discover in a rapidly hardening immigration climate that
they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which
many do not have.
"they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which
many do not have"
To be accurate, none of the people in this gentleman's "cohort"
will have such documentation. That's because it (the
documentation) does not exist, by definition. And their lack of
rights is not caused by any lack of paperwork.
Their lack of rights as a citizen and their lack of paperwork are
both caused by the same thing, which is that they are not UK
citizens.
How simple can it be?
So...
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
It certainly isn't fair to the citizenry of the UK.
I'm sure many Leave supporters will think as you do. Everyone's
trying to scam us and have a free ride at our expense. Damn those
Jamaican immigrants with their many years of faithful service to
our nation and the huge amount of taxes they have paid - it counts
for nothing because they've failed to fill in the right form at
the right time. Let's treat them like criminals.
However, most decent citizens of our country don't think like
that.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/homeless-cancer-patient-
with-no-passport-was-told-to-pay-54-000-ttmf2f802
"The British Medical Association condemned the handling of Mr
Thompsons case as œmorally indefensible and Dr Sarah
Wollaston, chairwoman of the Commons health select committee, said
she was very concerned. The right thing to do is to start the
treatment and then sort out why this case has arisen, Ms
Wollaston told The Guardian.
The Royal Marsden Hospital, the specialist cancer unit in London
where Mr Thompson sought treatment, has apologised for the
distress and uncertainty caused and said it was working to
resolve the situation as quickly as possible."
"Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chairman of the BMA council, said: It's
hard to conceive how people who have lived in the UK for decades
could be treated as visiting from overseas and not as an
œordinary resident eligible for free NHS care. Patients
whove received diagnoses as serious as cancer are already
distressed, and its morally indefensible to allow these people
to agonise about whether any delay to their care could mean the
difference between life and death."
Mr Thompson is not of good character. He may have been in the past
but he chose to became a money-launderer and was convicted.

Under such circumstances, his good deeds would serve as a good cover
for such criminal activities.

I'm of good character with no convictions but I don't indulge in
money laundering because when I got caught and convicted it would
ruin my reputation.
tim...
2018-03-14 14:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed
on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal
around the treatment by the Home Office of a group of people
who arrived in the UK as children from Commonwealth countries.
This cohort grew up believing themselves to be British, only
to discover in a rapidly hardening immigration climate that
they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which
many do not have.
"they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which
many do not have"
To be accurate, none of the people in this gentleman's "cohort"
will have such documentation. That's because it (the
documentation) does not exist, by definition. And their lack of
rights is not caused by any lack of paperwork.
Their lack of rights as a citizen and their lack of paperwork are
both caused by the same thing, which is that they are not UK
citizens.
How simple can it be?
So...
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
It certainly isn't fair to the citizenry of the UK.
I'm sure many Leave supporters will think as you do. Everyone's
trying to scam us and have a free ride at our expense. Damn those
Jamaican immigrants with their many years of faithful service to
our nation and the huge amount of taxes they have paid - it counts
for nothing because they've failed to fill in the right form at
the right time. Let's treat them like criminals.
However, most decent citizens of our country don't think like
that.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/homeless-cancer-patient-
with-no-passport-was-told-to-pay-54-000-ttmf2f802
"The British Medical Association condemned the handling of Mr
Thompsons case as omorally indefensible and Dr Sarah
Wollaston, chairwoman of the Commons health select committee, said
she was very concerned. The right thing to do is to start the
treatment and then sort out why this case has arisen, Ms
Wollaston told The Guardian.
The Royal Marsden Hospital, the specialist cancer unit in London
where Mr Thompson sought treatment, has apologised for the
distress and uncertainty caused and said it was working to
resolve the situation as quickly as possible."
"Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chairman of the BMA council, said: It's
hard to conceive how people who have lived in the UK for decades
could be treated as visiting from overseas and not as an
oordinary resident eligible for free NHS care. Patients
whove received diagnoses as serious as cancer are already
distressed, and its morally indefensible to allow these people
to agonise about whether any delay to their care could mean the
difference between life and death."
Mr Thompson is not of good character. He may have been in the past
but he chose to became a money-launderer and was convicted.
ITYF that the charge of being a money launder is directed at the "star" of
the TV program Being Blacker which somebody some how brought into the thread

tim
pamela
2018-03-14 18:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be
printed on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding
scandal around the treatment by the Home Office of a group
of people who arrived in the UK as children from
Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly
hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
"they need documentary proof of their right to be here, which
many do not have"
To be accurate, none of the people in this gentleman's "cohort"
will have such documentation. That's because it (the
documentation) does not exist, by definition. And their lack of
rights is not caused by any lack of paperwork.
Their lack of rights as a citizen and their lack of paperwork
are both caused by the same thing, which is that they are not
UK citizens.
How simple can it be?
So...
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
It certainly isn't fair to the citizenry of the UK.
I'm sure many Leave supporters will think as you do. Everyone's
trying to scam us and have a free ride at our expense. Damn
those Jamaican immigrants with their many years of faithful
service to our nation and the huge amount of taxes they have
paid - it counts for nothing because they've failed to fill in
the right form at the right time. Let's treat them like
criminals.
However, most decent citizens of our country don't think like that.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/homeless-cancer-patient-
with-no-passport-was-told-to-pay-54-000-ttmf2f802
"The British Medical Association condemned the handling of Mr
Thompsons case as omorally indefensible and Dr Sarah
Wollaston, chairwoman of the Commons health select committee,
said she was very concerned. The right thing to do is to start
the treatment and then sort out why this case has arisen, Ms
Wollaston told The Guardian.
The Royal Marsden Hospital, the specialist cancer unit in London
where Mr Thompson sought treatment, has apologised for the
distress and uncertainty caused and said it was working to
resolve the situation as quickly as possible."
"Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chairman of the BMA council, said: It's
hard to conceive how people who have lived in the UK for decades
could be treated as visiting from overseas and not as an
oordinary resident eligible for free NHS care. Patients
whove received diagnoses as serious as cancer are already
distressed, and its morally indefensible to allow these people
to agonise about whether any delay to their care could mean the
difference between life and death."
Mr Thompson is not of good character. He may have been in the
past but he chose to became a money-launderer and was convicted.
ITYF that the charge of being a money launder is directed at the
"star" of the TV program Being Blacker which somebody some how
brought into the thread
You're right. I have transposed the original person with that one.
I am not sure how it happened but it's my mistake.
harry
2018-03-13 18:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
So if you commit murder forty years ago, that's OK?
tim...
2018-03-13 18:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by harry
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the treatment
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their right to
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
So if you commit murder forty years ago, that's OK?
He probably didn't come here illegally. In 1973 we were still welcoming
Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work that Brits didn't
want to do.

Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got permanent
right to remain (as I believe those that came in the 60s did.)

They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for the qualifying
period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.

Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth immigrant with a
full working record was a given. None of the current bullshit reasons for
rejections happened then.

So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not filling in the
correct form and sending it off to the right office (which I recall in the
early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar House)

tim





.
JNugent
2018-03-14 00:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their
right to
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
So if you commit murder forty years ago, that's OK?
He probably didn't come here illegally.  In 1973 we were still welcoming
Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work that Brits didn't
want to do.
Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got permanent
right to remain (as I believe those that came in the 60s did.)
They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for the
qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.
Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth immigrant
with a full working record was a given.  None of the current bullshit
reasons for rejections happened then.
So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not filling in
the correct form and sending it off to the right office (which I recall
in the early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar House)
No.

"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.

Once you start excusing failure to register, apply, gain permission,
etc, you are effectively saying that the rules are unimportant.
Handsome Jack
2018-03-14 08:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
He probably didn't come here illegally.  In 1973 we were still
welcoming Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work that
Brits didn't want to do.
Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got
permanent right to remain (as I believe those that came in the 60s
did.)
They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for the
qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.
Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth
immigrant with a full working record was a given.  None of the
current bullshit reasons for rejections happened then.
So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not
filling in the correct form and sending it off to the right office
(which I recall in the early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar
House)
No.
"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.
Once you start excusing failure to register, apply, gain permission,
etc, you are effectively saying that the rules are unimportant.
No, I am saying that, if the rules say someone who has lived and worked
here in good faith for thirty years is not entitled to NHS treatment,
then the rules should be changed, or at least waived where there appears
good reason for it, as here.

Or perhaps they could give him all his tax and NICs back, plus full
compound interest of course, so that he can pay for his treatment. After
all, if they don't think he should have been here, then he shouldn't
have been paying us tax either.
--
Jack
pamela
2018-03-14 12:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by JNugent
He probably didn't come here illegally.  In 1973 we were still
welcoming Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work
that Brits didn't want to do. Though what didn't happen in 1973,
was that once here they got permanent right to remain (as I
believe those that came in the 60s did.)
They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for
the qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.
Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth
immigrant with a full working record was a given.  None of the
current bullshit reasons for rejections happened then. So, as
has already been said, all that his crime was, was not filling in
the correct form and sending it off to the right office (which I
recall in the early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar
House)
No.
"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.
Once you start excusing failure to register, apply, gain
permission, etc, you are effectively saying that the rules are
unimportant.
No, I am saying that, if the rules say someone who has lived and
worked here in good faith for thirty years is not entitled to NHS
treatment, then the rules should be changed, or at least waived
where there appears good reason for it, as here.
Or perhaps they could give him all his tax and NICs back, plus
full compound interest of course, so that he can pay for his
treatment. After all, if they don't think he should have been
here, then he shouldn't have been paying us tax either.
Illegal or undocumented immigrants are still liable to pay taxes.
JNugent
2018-03-14 15:18:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by JNugent
 He probably didn't come here illegally.  In 1973 we were still
welcoming  Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work
that Brits didn't  want to do.
 Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got
permanent  right to remain (as I believe those that came in the 60s
did.)
 They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for the
qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.
 Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth
immigrant  with a full working record was a given.  None of the
current bullshit  reasons for rejections happened then.
 So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not
filling in  the correct form and sending it off to the right office
(which I recall  in the early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar
House)
No.
"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.
Once you start excusing failure to register, apply, gain permission,
etc, you are effectively saying that the rules are unimportant.
No, I am saying that, if the rules say someone who has lived and worked
here in good faith for thirty years is not entitled to NHS treatment,
then the rules should be changed, or at least waived where there appears
good reason for it, as here.
Or perhaps they could give him all his tax and NICs back, plus full
compound interest of course, so that he can pay for his treatment. After
all, if they don't think he should have been here, then he shouldn't
have been paying us tax either.
What has the paying of tax (including NI) got to do with that?

When I am in another EU country, or the USA, Canada, etc, I cannot
refuse to pay the taxes I have to pay on the same basis as anyone else
just because I am not a citizen.
Handsome Jack
2018-03-15 14:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
No, I am saying that, if the rules say someone who has lived and
worked here in good faith for thirty years is not entitled to NHS
treatment, then the rules should be changed, or at least waived where
there appears good reason for it, as here.
Or perhaps they could give him all his tax and NICs back, plus full
compound interest of course, so that he can pay for his treatment.
After all, if they don't think he should have been here, then he
shouldn't have been paying us tax either.
What has the paying of tax (including NI) got to do with that?
The deal is that you pay tax to the government and they provide you with
the services that come from your tax residence. In this country, that
includes NHS treatment.
Post by JNugent
When I am in another EU country, or the USA, Canada, etc, I cannot
refuse to pay the taxes I have to pay on the same basis as anyone else
just because I am not a citizen.
Nobody is saying he shouldn't have paid tax.
--
Jack
JNugent
2018-03-16 10:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by JNugent
 No, I am saying that, if the rules say someone who has lived and
worked  here in good faith for thirty years is not entitled to NHS
treatment,  then the rules should be changed, or at least waived
where there appears  good reason for it, as here.
 Or perhaps they could give him all his tax and NICs back, plus full
compound interest of course, so that he can pay for his treatment.
After  all, if they don't think he should have been here, then he
shouldn't  have been paying us tax either.
What has the paying of tax (including NI) got to do with that?
The deal is that you pay tax to the government and they provide you with
the services that come from your tax residence. In this country, that
includes NHS treatment.
"Ordinarily resident" (like the "habitually resient" used in other
legislation) has a meaning. It does not mean mere presence / arrival /
failure to leave yet. The presence and the residence have to be legal
and in compliance with immigration law, visa restrictions, etc.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by JNugent
When I am in another EU country, or the USA, Canada, etc, I cannot
refuse to pay the taxes I have to pay on the same basis as anyone else
just because I am not a citizen.
Nobody is saying he shouldn't have paid tax.
I know.

It is the step from that to his being automatically entitled to
something else which is the controversial one.

tim...
2018-03-14 09:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by tim...
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be printed on legal
advice, is another victim of an unfolding scandal around the
treatment
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
by the Home Office of a group of people who arrived in the UK as
children from Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly hardening
immigration climate that they need documentary proof of their
right to
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
So if you commit murder forty years ago, that's OK?
He probably didn't come here illegally. In 1973 we were still welcoming
Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work that Brits didn't
want to do.
Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got permanent
right to remain (as I believe those that came in the 60s did.)
They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for the
qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct form.
Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth immigrant
with a full working record was a given. None of the current bullshit
reasons for rejections happened then.
So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not filling in
the correct form and sending it off to the right office (which I recall
in the early 80s is the same place it is now - Lunar House)
No.
"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.
no he did not do this

he was never illegal

he did not overstay

all he did was faill to registry's his LEGAL status

tim
pamela
2018-03-14 12:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by JNugent
Post by tim...
Post by harry
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by harry
Post by The Todal
The 63-year-old, who asked for his real name not to be
printed on legal advice, is another victim of an unfolding
scandal around the treatment by the Home Office of a group
of people who arrived in the UK as children from
Commonwealth countries. This cohort grew up believing
themselves to be British, only to discover in a rapidly
hardening immigration climate that they need documentary
proof of their right to be here, which many do not have.
He's an illegal immigrant no matter how long he's been here.
Possibly, but that's not really fair, is it?
--
Jack
So if you commit murder forty years ago, that's OK?
He probably didn't come here illegally. In 1973 we were still
welcoming Commonwealth citizens to come here to take up the work
that Brits didn't want to do.
Though what didn't happen in 1973, was that once here they got
permanent right to remain (as I believe those that came in the
60s did.)
They had to earn the right to citizenship by staying here for
the qualifying period (5 years?) and filling in the correct
form.
Back in 1978, getting citizenship as a working commonwealth
immigrant with a full working record was a given. None of the
current bullshit reasons for rejections happened then.
So, as has already been said, all that his crime was, was not
filling in the correct form and sending it off to the right
office (which I recall in the early 80s is the same place it is
now - Lunar House)
No.
"All his crime was" overstaying as an illegal.
no he did not do this
he was never illegal
he did not overstay
all he did was faill to registry's his LEGAL status
There's no proof of that at all.

It appears Mr Thompson came to the UK without a visa in 1973 and should
have registered his migrant status but chose not to.

As he is a self-confessed and convicted money launderer (and who knows
what criminal activity of others he was hiding), it's possible his
money laundering extended to his early days in this country and maybe
that's why he didn't wish to make an application. Who knows.

There was similar case of a Jamaican who came to the UK in 1973 at the
age of twelve and given indefinite leave to remain but he decided not
to renew his papers when they were stolen. He became an illegal.

What's the point of having laws which require certain procedures to be
followed as a condition of staying in the UK if the person doesn't
follow them? Other illegals who never had papers invent all sorts of
stories about what happened to their documentation. We can't just
ignore the requirement.

I am sure Mr Thompson can appeal if he thinks he has a case in
compassionate grounds. It may be expensive for him but that's the
price of his mistake and, anyway, he might be able to get Legal Aid.
The Todal
2018-03-14 12:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pamela
It appears Mr Thompson came to the UK without a visa in 1973 and should
have registered his migrant status but chose not to.
As he is a self-confessed and convicted money launderer (and who knows
what criminal activity of others he was hiding)
I've obviously missed that, somewhere. Can you supply the URLs to
demonstrate that he is a self confessed and convicted money launderer?

Obviously it's quite a disproportionate punishment to deprive him of NHS
care in addition to whatever fine or prison sentence might have been
imposed on him.


, it's possible his
Post by pamela
money laundering extended to his early days in this country and maybe
that's why he didn't wish to make an application. Who knows.
There was similar case of a Jamaican who came to the UK in 1973 at the
age of twelve and given indefinite leave to remain but he decided not
to renew his papers when they were stolen. He became an illegal.
What's the point of having laws which require certain procedures to be
followed as a condition of staying in the UK if the person doesn't
follow them? Other illegals who never had papers invent all sorts of
stories about what happened to their documentation. We can't just
ignore the requirement.
I am sure Mr Thompson can appeal if he thinks he has a case in
compassionate grounds. It may be expensive for him but that's the
price of his mistake and, anyway, he might be able to get Legal Aid.
You are sure that he can appeal, are you? I'm not sure, and I'm a lawyer.
pamela
2018-03-14 18:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
It appears Mr Thompson came to the UK without a visa in 1973 and
should have registered his migrant status but chose not to.
As he is a self-confessed and convicted money launderer (and who
knows what criminal activity of others he was hiding)
I've obviously missed that, somewhere. Can you supply the URLs to
demonstrate that he is a self confessed and convicted money
launderer?
I went back to your original link and checked the Guardian story.
What happened? The person I'm talking about was shown on a page
with dreadlocks standing in front of an untidy room and looking
somewhat less dapper than Mr Thompson. I think I've mixed up two
compeltely different cases. Scratch my comments about Mr Thomson as
I am evidently talking about someone else. Sorry about that.

I'm mystified to know which was the original mistaken case but my
browser cache doesn't help me. My comments were made in good (but
mistaken) faith.
Post by The Todal
Obviously it's quite a disproportionate punishment to deprive him
of NHS care in addition to whatever fine or prison sentence might
have been imposed on him.
Post by pamela
it's possible his
money laundering extended to his early days in this country and
maybe that's why he didn't wish to make an application. Who
knows.
There was similar case of a Jamaican who came to the UK in 1973
at the age of twelve and given indefinite leave to remain but he
decided not to renew his papers when they were stolen. He became
an illegal.
What's the point of having laws which require certain procedures
to be followed as a condition of staying in the UK if the person
doesn't follow them? Other illegals who never had papers invent
all sorts of stories about what happened to their documentation.
We can't just ignore the requirement.
I am sure Mr Thompson can appeal if he thinks he has a case in
compassionate grounds. It may be expensive for him but that's
the price of his mistake and, anyway, he might be able to get
Legal Aid.
You are sure that he can appeal, are you? I'm not sure, and I'm a lawyer.
Loading...