Discussion:
Crossing a border illegally
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Peter Percival
2018-04-03 20:48:17 UTC
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Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
Pelican
2018-04-03 20:56:13 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back.  If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
People are shot dead for all sorts of reasons. Whether it is "legal" to
do so depends on the circumstances. But you already know that.
Tim Jackson
2018-04-03 22:05:46 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival wrote...
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you're asking whether it is legal for them to be shot dead, it rather
depends on which country's law you are talking about. The law of North
Korea or Iran might give a different answer to the law of England or
France.
--
Tim Jackson
***@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
Pelican
2018-04-03 22:22:33 UTC
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Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival wrote...
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you're asking whether it is legal for them to be shot dead, it rather
depends on which country's law you are talking about. The law of North
Korea or Iran might give a different answer to the law of England or
France.
I doubt if the laws of North Korea or Iran do anything of the sort, but
it reflects on your views about both counties. Clearly, you have not
been to either.
Nightjar
2018-04-04 08:36:10 UTC
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Post by Pelican
Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival wrote...
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back.  If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
Historically, border guards are more likely to to shoot people trying to
leave their country; e.g. East Germany or Eritrea.
Post by Pelican
Post by Tim Jackson
If you're asking whether it is legal for them to be shot dead, it rather
depends on which country's law you are talking about.  The law of North
Korea or Iran might give a different answer to the law of England or
France.
There are several reports of Egyptian border guards shooting people who
fail to stop when challenged. This has been justified on the grounds of
it being an anti-terrorist action.
Post by Pelican
I doubt if the laws of North Korea or Iran do anything of the sort, but
it reflects on your views about both counties.  Clearly, you have not
been to either.
Last year, North Korea is reported to have replaced all its border
guards and punished them, after they chased, shot, but failed to stop
one of their own who was defecting to the South. I'm not sure many would
choose to go the other way.
--
--

Colin Bignell
peterwn
2018-04-04 09:51:01 UTC
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Post by Pelican
Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival wrote...
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you're asking whether it is legal for them to be shot dead, it rather
depends on which country's law you are talking about. The law of North
Korea or Iran might give a different answer to the law of England or
France.
I doubt if the laws of North Korea or Iran do anything of the sort, but
it reflects on your views about both counties. Clearly, you have not
been to either.
The former 'Democratic' Republic of Germany (ie East Germany) border guards did not hesitate to shoot people exiting the border.
JNugent
2018-04-04 00:10:36 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back.  If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
I wonderwhether there is a deifinitive answer, but every instinct of a
sensible person says "Yes".
tim...
2018-04-04 08:42:30 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
For those countries that conform to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human
Rights.

No

tim
Judith
2018-04-04 12:11:31 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you are talking about Gaza then Israel’s defence minister Avigdor Lieberman
said of the soldiers who killed the Palestinians:

"I think all our soldiers deserve a medal"

Sorry - am I being anti-Semitic to say that?

Anti-Semitic: to criticise Israel and its actions.
Peter Percival
2018-04-07 12:16:08 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you are talking about Gaza then Israel’s defence minister Avigdor Lieberman
"I think all our soldiers deserve a medal"
Sorry - am I being anti-Semitic to say that?
Anti-Semitic: to criticise Israel and its actions.
'tis interesting isn't it, that Trump merely sends troops to the border
with Mexico and no shot is fired, but the jews shoot to kill at people
just walking towards the border.

How the liberals berate Trump! How quiet they are about the jews!

By 14 May 1948 the jews had stolen an entire country (alongside which
Nazi looting is a triviality) and it seems no one is ever going to right
that wrong.
tim...
2018-04-07 13:37:44 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you are talking about Gaza then Israel’s defence minister Avigdor Lieberman
"I think all our soldiers deserve a medal"
Sorry - am I being anti-Semitic to say that?
Anti-Semitic: to criticise Israel and its actions.
'tis interesting isn't it, that Trump merely sends troops to the border
with Mexico and no shot is fired, but the jews shoot to kill at people
just walking towards the border.
How the liberals berate Trump! How quiet they are about the jews!
By 14 May 1948 the jews had stolen an entire country (alongside which Nazi
looting is a triviality) and it seems no one is ever going to right that
wrong.
I don't think that it's fair to say that they "stole" the country

The problem was that we (by which I mean the Brits in charge at the time)
didn't make sufficient provision for the displaced people previously living
there

tim
harry
2018-04-07 15:51:23 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you are talking about Gaza then Israel’s defence minister Avigdor Lieberman
"I think all our soldiers deserve a medal"
Sorry - am I being anti-Semitic to say that?
Anti-Semitic: to criticise Israel and its actions.
'tis interesting isn't it, that Trump merely sends troops to the border
with Mexico and no shot is fired, but the jews shoot to kill at people
just walking towards the border.
How the liberals berate Trump! How quiet they are about the jews!
By 14 May 1948 the jews had stolen an entire country (alongside which Nazi
looting is a triviality) and it seems no one is ever going to right that
wrong.
I don't think that it's fair to say that they "stole" the country
The problem was that we (by which I mean the Brits in charge at the time)
didn't make sufficient provision for the displaced people previously living
there
http://www.covenantoflove.net/through-the-bible/day-16-joshua-1-14-ethnic-cleansing-could-things-have-been-different/
Pelican
2018-04-07 21:31:30 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Tim Jackson
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 21:48:17 +0100, Peter Percival
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back.  If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
If you are talking about Gaza then Israel’s defence minister Avigdor Lieberman
"I think all our soldiers deserve a medal"
Sorry - am I being anti-Semitic to say that?
Anti-Semitic: to criticise Israel and its actions.
'tis interesting isn't it, that Trump merely sends troops to the
border with Mexico and no shot is fired, but the jews shoot to kill at
people just walking towards the border.
How the liberals berate Trump!  How quiet they are about the jews!
By 14 May 1948 the jews had stolen an entire country (alongside which
Nazi looting is a triviality) and it seems no one is ever going to
right that wrong.
I don't think that it's fair to say that they "stole" the country
The problem was that we (by which I mean the Brits in charge at the
time) didn't make sufficient provision for the displaced people
previously living there
The "problem" was and is somewhat bigger than that.
harry
2018-04-07 15:49:06 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
We'll see very shortly.
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269778/daca-declared-dead-border-anarchy-intensifies-lloyd-billingsley
s***@gmail.com
2018-04-09 17:34:08 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
The border guards in Moldova and Ukraine when I drove there had machine guns and would use them, otherwise why have them?
tim...
2018-04-10 10:16:24 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Peter Percival
Suppose someone with no legal right to cross a border approaches it and
border guards issue warnings to stop or turn back. If the person
approaching takes no heed and crosses the border illegally, may they be
shot dead?
The border guards in Moldova and Ukraine when I drove there had machine
guns and would use them, otherwise why have them?
the police at the Eurotunnel terminal in Folkestone routinely walk around
with machine guns

I suspect that they never expect to have to use them, but they still have
them

tim

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