Discussion:
Whatever happened to "Buy British"?
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Byker
2018-07-10 21:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What happened?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?

By Caroline McClatchey
BBC News Magazine

The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
patriotic and buy products made in the UK?

When buying a jumper, a piece of furniture or a bag of apples, do you check
to see where it has come from?

Do people care whether it was designed, manufactured or grown by British
firms or farms?

These are troubling times for Britain's manufacturing sector, once a
relative bright spot in the country's lacklustre recovery, which contracted
at its fastest pace in more than two years in October, as new orders
plummeted.

But there is unlikely to be a clamour for consumers to start buying British.

In the US, people are used to hearing the phrase "buy American". It is seen
as one of the ways of putting Americans back to work.

Adverts proudly proclaim how the product was born and bred in America, and
closer to home, many French people would not dream of drinking anything
other than French wine or driving anything other than a French car.

There was a surge in patriotic "buy American" rhetoric in the wake of 9/11,
and it has returned to the fore in recent months as the country struggles to
cope with rising unemployment.

But economic nationalism stretches back to the American Revolution. The
Boston Tea Party was all about rejecting foreign-made products and there was
another upsurge of it in the 1930s during the Depression.

According to a recent poll, 80% of Americans think it their patriotic duty
to choose US-made products over foreign ones and there are many websites
devoted to helping consumers find them.

But it is not clear how successful such campaigns have been in protecting US
jobs.

America's biggest retailer Wal-Mart came under fire in the early 1990s for
its "Bring It Home to the USA" marketing campaign after footage of children
working in factories in Bangladesh emerged.

There has been a xenophobic undercurrent to some of the rhetoric in the
past, such as the late 1970s campaign by auto workers to save their jobs,
which flirted with Japan-bashing.

But in a sign of how times have changed, Japanese car giant Toyota is the
latest big company to wrap itself in the stars and stripes, in TV ads
showing off its American workforce, as it seeks to recover from a recall
crisis.

There have been many Buy British initiatives over the years. Perhaps the
most famous was the I'm Backing Britain campaign in the late 1960s.

It began in December 1967 when five secretaries at a ventilation and heating
company volunteered to work an extra half hour each day without pay to do
their bit for the flagging economy. It took on a life of its own and within
the week, other companies were following suit.

Union jacks started to appear everywhere, the government endorsed the
campaign and popular newspapers threw their weight behind it. But it fizzled
out within months.

The then Labour MP Robert Maxwell launched a rival motto Buy British, a
record sung by Bruce Forsyth sold just 7,319 copies, and campaign T-shirts
were found to have been made in Portugal.

The song's chorus had the line: "The feeling is growing, so let's keep it
going, the good times are blowing our way."

Surely British shoppers and workers could do with a similar injection of
national pride in these economic dire straits? John Lewis certainly thinks
so.

Last week, the retailer launched a new campaign to champion British
manufacturing. From early next year, a Made in UK logo will start appearing
on ticketing and online product information to highlight British-made
products.

Other business leaders have also recently floated the idea, including the
managing director of organic food brand Yeo Valley. Earlier this year,
Merseyside cooker company Stoves launched a Made in Britain campaign and
says some 250 manufacturers are now using the logo.

But it will take more than a handful of firms to change the British consumer
mentality, says Vincent-Wayne Mitchell, professor of consumer marketing at
the Cass Business School, City University London.

He says the default setting is unpatriotic because shoppers believe "German
salami is better than British salami and French wine is better than British
wine". Empire and immigration has led to the British consumer becoming "much
less parochial".

"It takes a great deal of effort to change consumer consciousness. The
government needs to be behind a campaign to give it economic credibility."

But despite daily doomsday reports about high unemployment and low growth,
the politicians have not been ordering us to go and buy British. Why?

Political pundit Kevin Maguire says it would be a bit like shooting yourself
in the foot.

"It would be very hard for Cameron to stand up and say Buy British, when
half of our exports go to the EU. If they did the same half our exports
would no longer go there."

The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills says the UK relies on
open markets and a Buy British campaign would be counter-productive.

"UK companies need to be able to access global markets so restricting access
to the UK or the EU market could all too easily encourage retaliation, which
would leave everyone worse off."

Food is one sector where the Buy British idea is having an impact. The
farming industry has been trying to reverse a decline in the amount of
British produce consumed - it has fallen from 75% in the early 1990s to
60% - through various campaigns.

The Red Tractor logo marks British food regarded as having high standards of
safety and hygiene, animal welfare and environmental protection.

"Some food manufacturers have stepped forward and said they are only going
to use British ingredients. Country Life is a very good example of that,"
says Sarah Whitelock, from the National Farmers Union.

Although consumers may be thinking more about where their food comes from
and how many miles it travelled to reach their plate, the same cannot be
said for their trainers, tables or television sets.

Prof Mitchell says the impulse to buy British tends to be associated with
more expensive goods.

This means it can often be a choice between buying a luxury shirt made in
the UK from London's Jermyn Street and buying a mass-produced shirt made in
China from any High Street retailer.

In addition to price, another problem for any Buy British campaign could be
that many people assume that nothing is manufactured in the UK.

While the days of millions of people employed in industries producing large
volumes of low-value goods may be a distant memory, the UK is the sixth
largest manufacturer in the world by output and a leading exporter of
high-tech goods.

And there are plenty of other statistics to blow away the rumours of the
sector's demise - manufacturing is the third largest sector in the UK, after
business services and wholesale/retail, and output reached an all-time high
in 2007.

The UK is producing more with fewer people, and like most modern economies,
the focus has turned to higher-value items such as aerospace and defence
equipment.

There tends to be a hue and cry when British brands are taken over by
foreign-owned firms or when British companies take their production
overseas.

But there has been a trend for design teams to remain behind. One of the
best examples was when Dyson shifted production to Malaysia from Malmesbury
in Wiltshire in 2002. Manufacturing jobs were lost, while research and
design jobs remained.

The latest figures, from the Design Council, show the UK design industry is
expanding despite the difficult economic climate.

The design sector has grown over the last five years, with numbers of
designers increasing by 29% to 232,000.

And the combined fee incomes of freelances and design consultancies, and
budgets of in-house design teams, have increased by £3.4bn to £15bn.

Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says Britain is
internationally renowned for its design skills.

"The UK has a great reputation abroad, whether for its architects such as
Norman Foster and Richard Rogers, fashion designers or industrial
designers."

Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says many people
imagine that the UK is devoid of manufacturing since production started to
move to the Far East, but there is in its place a rich mix of high-tech
manufacturing, such as race-car makers McLaren, and artisanal producers such
as furniture makers Ercol.

Terry Scuoler, chief executive of EEF, the manufacturers' association,
admits the sector does have an image problem.

"There's an image out there that Britain is not a manufacturing giant. While
we have lost a number of iconic brands, we are still a major manufacturer.
We might not be making jets but we make very large parts of them.

"Britain is a big car manufacturer. Nissan, Honda, BMW have plants in the
UK."

Therein lies another problem - what counts as a British product? Scuoler
says this is irrelevant and any campaign should be Made in Britain, not Buy
British.

He says foreign-owned firms are a massive part of our economy and are big
investors and employers.

"Made in Britain would be a healthy banner and a healthy battle cry. The
issue is not British ownership. It's about investing in Britain."

Hunter thinks a Buy British campaign sounds like a throwback to the post-war
years and it actually has a different meaning in today's globalised world.

"I don't think it's about spending your money at home in a xenophobic way.
It's about dispelling the myth that we no longer make anything and don't
develop anything wonderful."

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15551818
Nightjar
2018-07-11 08:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> happened?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>
> By Caroline McClatchey
> BBC News Magazine
>
> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...

One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they tend
to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had to stop
saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems that the
Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in Hungary.


--
--

Colin Bignell
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 10:10:34 UTC
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Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>> remember
>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>> happened?
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>
>> By Caroline McClatchey
>> BBC News Magazine
>>
>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>
> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.

Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
(of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
solution to anything.

We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I doubt
if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.

> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they tend
> to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had to stop
> saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems that the
> Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in Hungary.

Exactly. Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
quality or price or labour relations, did we?
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 10:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
(in article <***@mid.individual.net>):

> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > remember
> > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > happened?
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > >
> > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > BBC News Magazine
> > >
> > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> >
> > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>
> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> solution to anything.
>
> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.

And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
decline.

Arrogance and a haughty indifference. We now think we are “above”
manufacturing, which is a dirty job.We only want the squeaky clean stuff,
such as take-away meals and conservatory installation.

> I doubt
> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.

But you have no idea, because I doubt you even mix with the plebs who might
work in the mills, let alone ask them if they would like a job in a steel
works rather than the dole.

Pontificating from ivory towers about what people might or might not want has
wrecked the country just as much as a refusal to invest long term, and go for
quick profits through hedge fund asset stripping and creaming off pension
fund money into shareholder dividends and director bonuses.
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 10:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>> remember
>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>> happened?
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>
>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>
>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>
>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>
>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> solution to anything.
>>
>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>
> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> decline.

What 'spiralling decline'?

On what criteria are you basing this assessment?

> Arrogance and a haughty indifference. We now think we are “above”
> manufacturing, which is a dirty job.We only want the squeaky clean stuff,
> such as take-away meals and conservatory installation.

Doesn't everyone? It's called 'progress' and 'civilisation'.

>> I doubt
>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>
> But you have no idea, because I doubt you even mix with the plebs who might
> work in the mills, let alone ask them if they would like a job in a steel
> works rather than the dole.

Well, they're rather hard to come across since manufacturing is only a
small part of the UK economy, and there's virtually no-one on the dole
anyway. We have the lowest unemployment rate in this country for over
40 years.

> Pontificating from ivory towers about what people might or might not want has
> wrecked the country

'Wrecked the country'?

On what criteria are you basing this assessment?

> just as much as a refusal to invest long term, and go for
> quick profits through hedge fund asset stripping and creaming off pension
> fund money into shareholder dividends and director bonuses.

You'll have to be a bit more specific.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 11:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
(in article <***@mid.individual.net>):

> On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > remember
> > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > happened?
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > >
> > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > >
> > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > >
> > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
> > >
> > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > solution to anything.
> > >
> > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> >
> > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > decline.
>
> What 'spiralling decline'?

A description to fish for pedants.

>
> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?

And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.

>
>
> > Arrogance and a haughty indifference. We now think we are “above”
> > manufacturing, which is a dirty job.We only want the squeaky clean stuff,
> > such as take-away meals and conservatory installation.
>
> Doesn't everyone?

No.

> It's called 'progress' and 'civilisation'.

Only to people who believe they are superior.

>
>
> > > I doubt
> > > if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
> >
> > But you have no idea, because I doubt you even mix with the plebs who might
> > work in the mills, let alone ask them if they would like a job in a steel
> > works rather than the dole.
>
> Well, they're rather hard to come across since manufacturing is only a
> small part of the UK economy, and there's virtually no-one on the dole
> anyway. We have the lowest unemployment rate in this country for over
> 40 years.

Only because a big percentage are on zero hours contracts which, to those who
want to brag about statistics, call fully employed.

>
>
> > Pontificating from ivory towers about what people might or might not want
> > has
> > wrecked the country
>
> 'Wrecked the country'?

What would you call it?

>
>
> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?

Comparison of our manufacturing base with that uncivilised and unprogressive
(based on your criteria) country called Germany.

>
>
> > just as much as a refusal to invest long term, and go for
> > quick profits through hedge fund asset stripping and creaming off pension
> > fund money into shareholder dividends and director bonuses.
>
> You'll have to be a bit more specific.

At least you have not denied any of this.
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 11:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>
>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>> decline.
>>
>> What 'spiralling decline'?
>
> A description to fish for pedants.
>
>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>
> And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.

Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.

>>> Arrogance and a haughty indifference. We now think we are “above”
>>> manufacturing, which is a dirty job.We only want the squeaky clean stuff,
>>> such as take-away meals and conservatory installation.
>>
>> Doesn't everyone?
>
> No.
>
>> It's called 'progress' and 'civilisation'.
>
> Only to people who believe they are superior.

No, to people who are progressive and civilised.

>>>> I doubt
>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>
>>> But you have no idea, because I doubt you even mix with the plebs who might
>>> work in the mills, let alone ask them if they would like a job in a steel
>>> works rather than the dole.
>>
>> Well, they're rather hard to come across since manufacturing is only a
>> small part of the UK economy, and there's virtually no-one on the dole
>> anyway. We have the lowest unemployment rate in this country for over
>> 40 years.
>
> Only because a big percentage are on zero hours contracts which, to those who
> want to brag about statistics, call fully employed.

Just 2.8% of those who are employed are on zero hours contracts. On
average, each of those works 25 hours a week, with just one third
wanting more hours than they do.

It's not a big percentage at all.

>>> Pontificating from ivory towers about what people might or might not want
>>> has wrecked the country
>>
>> 'Wrecked the country'?
>
> What would you call it?

It's your proposition. It's for you to support it or lose it.

>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>
> Comparison of our manufacturing base with that uncivilised and unprogressive
> (based on your criteria) country called Germany.

'The country' is not just our 'manufacturing base' though, which
provides just 8% of all employment in the UK. It may be declining, but
that doesn't by any stretch of the imagination 'wreck the country'.

>>> just as much as a refusal to invest long term, and go for
>>> quick profits through hedge fund asset stripping and creaming off pension
>>> fund money into shareholder dividends and director bonuses.
>>
>> You'll have to be a bit more specific.
>
> At least you have not denied any of this.

You'll still have to be a bit more specific.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 15:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 4:28 AM, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>>> On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>> sector
>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
>>>>>> the UK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>>> of an
>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>
>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>> decline.
>>>
>>> What 'spiralling decline'?
>>
>> A description to fish for pedants.
>>
>>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>>
>> And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.
>
> Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
> 'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.

He's an economics illiterate who's trolling you. You're right on all of
this, and he's wrong, and that's the end of it.

>
>>>> Arrogance and a haughty indifference. We now think we are “above”
>>>> manufacturing, which is a dirty job.We only want the squeaky clean
>>>> stuff,
>>>> such as take-away meals and conservatory installation.
>>>
>>> Doesn't everyone?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> It's called 'progress' and 'civilisation'.
>>
>> Only to people who believe they are superior.
>
> No, to people who are progressive and civilised.
>
>>>>> I doubt
>>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>>
>>>> But you have no idea, because I doubt you even mix with the plebs
>>>> who might
>>>> work in the mills, let alone ask them if they would like a job in a
>>>> steel
>>>> works rather than the dole.
>>>
>>> Well, they're rather hard to come across since manufacturing is only a
>>> small part of the UK economy, and there's virtually no-one on the dole
>>> anyway. We have the lowest unemployment rate in this country for over
>>> 40 years.
>>
>> Only because a big percentage are on zero hours contracts which, to
>> those who
>> want to brag about statistics, call fully employed.
>
> Just 2.8% of those who are employed are on zero hours contracts.  On
> average, each of those works 25 hours a week, with just one third
> wanting more hours than they do.
>
> It's not a big percentage at all.
>
>>>> Pontificating from ivory towers about what people might or might not
>>>> want
>>>> has wrecked the country
>>>
>>> 'Wrecked the country'?
>>
>> What would you call it?
>
> It's your proposition.  It's for you to support it or lose it.
>
>>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>>
>> Comparison of our manufacturing base with that uncivilised and
>> unprogressive
>> (based on your criteria) country called Germany.
>
> 'The country' is not just our 'manufacturing base' though, which
> provides just 8% of all employment in the UK.  It may be declining, but
> that doesn't by any stretch of the imagination 'wreck the country'.
>
>>>> just as much as a refusal to invest long term, and go for
>>>> quick profits through hedge fund asset stripping and creaming off
>>>> pension
>>>> fund money into shareholder dividends and director bonuses.
>>>
>>> You'll have to be a bit more specific.
>>
>> At least you have not denied any of this.
>
> You'll still have to be a bit more specific.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 15:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
(in article <n2p1D.201056$***@fx10.iad>):

> On 7/11/2018 4:28 AM, Norman Wells wrote:
> > On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > >
> > > > On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > > > > happened?
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
> > > > > > > > sector
> > > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
> > > > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
> > > > > > > the UK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
> > > > > > of an
> > > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > > > > solution to anything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> > > > >
> > > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > > > > decline.
> > > >
> > > > What 'spiralling decline'?
> > >
> > > A description to fish for pedants.
> > >
> > > > On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
> > >
> > > And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.
> >
> > Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
> > 'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.
>
> He's an economics illiterate who's trolling you. You're right on all of
> this, and he's wrong, and that's the end of it.

I see Economics' Stalin has arrived in order to tell us all what we can and
cannot do.

Leave a festering jam pot outside for long enough, and all manner of flies
will start to buzz around.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 16:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 8:50 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> (in article <n2p1D.201056$***@fx10.iad>):
>
>> On 7/11/2018 4:28 AM, Norman Wells wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>>>> sector
>>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
>>>>>>>> the UK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>>>>> of an
>>>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>>>> decline.
>>>>>
>>>>> What 'spiralling decline'?
>>>>
>>>> A description to fish for pedants.
>>>>
>>>>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>>>>
>>>> And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.
>>>
>>> Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
>>> 'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.
>>
>> He's an economics illiterate who's trolling you. You're right on all of
>> this, and he's wrong, and that's the end of it.
>
> I see Economics' Stalin has arrived in order to tell us all what we can and
> cannot do.

No one is telling you what you can and cannot do. I am simply
commenting on your economics illiteracy.

> Leave a festering jam pot outside for long enough, and all manner of flies
> will start to buzz around.
>
>
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 16:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
(in article <0Up1D.104582$***@fx09.iad>):

> On 7/11/2018 8:50 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> > (in article <n2p1D.201056$***@fx10.iad>):
> >
> > > On 7/11/2018 4:28 AM, Norman Wells wrote:
> > > > On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > > > > > > happened?
> > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
> > > > > > > > > > sector
> > > > > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
> > > > > > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
> > > > > > > > > the UK.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
> > > > > > > > of an
> > > > > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > > > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > > > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > > > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > > > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > > > > > > solution to anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > > > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > > > > > > decline.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What 'spiralling decline'?
> > > > >
> > > > > A description to fish for pedants.
> > > > >
> > > > > > On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
> > > > >
> > > > > And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.
> > > >
> > > > Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
> > > > 'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.
> > >
> > > He's an economics illiterate who's trolling you. You're right on all of
> > > this, and he's wrong, and that's the end of it.
> >
> > I see Economics' Stalin has arrived in order to tell us all what we can and
> > cannot do.
>
> No one is telling you what you can and cannot do.

What does “and that’s the end of it” mean?

That’s the end of what?

> I am simply
> commenting on your economics illiteracy.
>
> > Leave a festering jam pot outside for long enough, and all manner of flies
> > will start to buzz around.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 9:42 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> (in article <0Up1D.104582$***@fx09.iad>):
>
>> On 7/11/2018 8:50 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>>> (in article <n2p1D.201056$***@fx10.iad>):
>>>
>>>> On 7/11/2018 4:28 AM, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 12:04, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 11:19, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>>>>>> sector
>>>>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
>>>>>>>>>> the UK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>>>>>>> of an
>>>>>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>>>>>> decline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What 'spiralling decline'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A description to fish for pedants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On what criteria are you basing this assessment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it seems one took the bait almost immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you have no support for your position, I'll take it that
>>>>> 'spiralling decline' is just a lie then.
>>>>
>>>> He's an economics illiterate who's trolling you. You're right on all of
>>>> this, and he's wrong, and that's the end of it.
>>>
>>> I see Economics' Stalin has arrived in order to tell us all what we can and
>>> cannot do.
>>
>> No one is telling you what you can and cannot do.
>
> What does “and that’s the end of it” mean?
>
> That’s the end of what?

It means that's the logical end of your attempt at arguing. You don't
have anything left.

>> I am simply
>> commenting on your economics illiteracy.
>>
>>> Leave a festering jam pot outside for long enough, and all manner of flies
>>> will start to buzz around.
>
>
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 15:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>> remember
>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>> happened?
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>
>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>
>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>
>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>
>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> solution to anything.
>>
>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>
> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> decline.

Wrong. Norman is right. It is a natural stage of economic development
to move beyond manufacturing to services. The reason China doesn't sell
banking and insurance and engineering and other services to Great
Britain is that they're not sufficiently developed and sophisticated to
do it.
pensive hamster
2018-07-11 15:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 16:05:20 UTC+1, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
[...]
> >> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> >> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> >
> > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > decline.
>
> Wrong. Norman is right. It is a natural stage of economic development
> to move beyond manufacturing to services. The reason China doesn't sell
> banking and insurance and engineering and other services to Great
> Britain is that they're not sufficiently developed and sophisticated to
> do it.

Its not quite that clearcut. China has some quite sophisticated
investment strategies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund

"A sovereign wealth fund (SWF) or sovereign investment fund
is a state-owned investment fund that invests in real and financial
assets such as stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, or in
alternative investments such as private equity fund or hedge funds.
Sovereign wealth funds invest globally."

I'll give you three guesses which country has the largest SWF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sovereign_wealth_funds

Rank 1: China. Assets: 1,554.8 Billion USD.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 15:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
(in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):

> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > remember
> > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > happened?
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > >
> > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > >
> > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > >
> > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
> > >
> > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > solution to anything.
> > >
> > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> >
> > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > decline.
>
> Wrong. Norman is right.

But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
industries and no manufacturing?
Incubus
2018-07-11 15:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall <***@bungay.com> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>
>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>> > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>> > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>> >
>> > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>> > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>> > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>> > > > > remember
>> > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>> > > > > happened?
>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
>> > > > > BBC News Magazine
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>> > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>> > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>> > > >
>> > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>> > >
>> > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>> > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> > > solution to anything.
>> > >
>> > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>> > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>> >
>> > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>> > decline.
>>
>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>
> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> industries and no manufacturing?

I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
profitable.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 16:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
(in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):

> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> > (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
> >
> > > On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > > > happened?
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > > > solution to anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> > > >
> > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > > > decline.
> > >
> > > Wrong. Norman is right.
> >
> > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> > industries and no manufacturing?
>
> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
> profitable.

So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
have had in the past)?

This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.
Incubus
2018-07-11 16:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall <***@bungay.com> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
> (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>> > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>> > (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>> >
>> > > On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>> > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>> > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>> > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>> > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>> > > > > > > remember
>> > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>> > > > > > > happened?
>> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
>> > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>> > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>> > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>> > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> > > > > solution to anything.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>> > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>> > > >
>> > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>> > > > decline.
>> > >
>> > > Wrong. Norman is right.
>> >
>> > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
>> > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
>> > industries and no manufacturing?
>>
>> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
>> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>> profitable.
>
> So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
> companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
> have had in the past)?
>
> This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.

The opposite; it's okay to have modern manufacturing if you don't have Luddite
Trades' Unionists throwing spanners into the works.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 16:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
(in article <pi5bs3$37e$***@dont-email.me>):

> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
> > (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
> > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> > > > (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > > > > > happened?
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the
> > > > > > > > UK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > > > > > solution to anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > > > > > decline.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong. Norman is right.
> > > >
> > > > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not
> > > > gone
> > > > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> > > > industries and no manufacturing?
> > >
> > > I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the
> > > GDR
> > > and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
> > > profitable.
> >
> > So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
> > companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
> > have had in the past)?
> >
> > This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.
>
> The opposite; it's okay to have modern manufacturing if you don't have Luddite
> Trades' Unionists throwing spanners into the works.

Isn’t that what I said?

My use of sarcasm with the words unsophisticated and unadvanced were taken
from the Norman Wells post which maintained that an advanced and
sophisticated country leaves the manufacturing to other countries.

But it seems that no one here has the intelligence to follow a logical
argument, and so I see no point in continuing with it.

However, feel free to continue the oneupmanship putdowns for as long as you
like.....
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 9:54 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
> (in article <pi5bs3$37e$***@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
>>> (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>>>>> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the
>>>>>>>>> UK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>>>>> decline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>>>>>
>>>>> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not
>>>>> gone
>>>>> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
>>>>> industries and no manufacturing?
>>>>
>>>> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the
>>>> GDR
>>>> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>>>> profitable.
>>>
>>> So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
>>> companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
>>> have had in the past)?
>>>
>>> This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.
>>
>> The opposite; it's okay to have modern manufacturing if you don't have Luddite
>> Trades' Unionists throwing spanners into the works.
>
> Isn’t that what I said?
>
> My use of sarcasm with the words unsophisticated and unadvanced were taken
> from the Norman Wells post which maintained that an advanced and
> sophisticated country leaves the manufacturing to other countries.

You're still whacking at your shabby straw man. Norman didn't say that
advanced and sophisticated countries entirely abandon manufacturing.
They largely do. It's a natural economic evolution.

Germany, which you mischaracterize as being mostly a manufacturing based
economy, is in fact 70% services as a percentage of GDP, with 72% of the
workforce employed in the services sector.
https://www.ixpos.de/IXPOS/Navigation/EN/Your-business-in-germany/Eu-service-market/service-industry.html

>
> But it seems that no one here has the intelligence to follow a logical
> argument, and so I see no point in continuing with it.
>
> However, feel free to continue the oneupmanship putdowns for as long as you
> like.....
>
>
Incubus
2018-07-12 08:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall <***@bungay.com> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
> (in article <pi5bs3$37e$***@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>> > On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
>> > (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
>> >
>> > > On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>> > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>> > > > (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>> > > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>> > > > > > > > > remember
>> > > > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>> > > > > > > > > happened?
>> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
>> > > > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>> > > > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>> > > > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the
>> > > > > > > > UK.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of
>> > > > > > > an
>> > > > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> > > > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> > > > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> > > > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> > > > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> > > > > > > solution to anything.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>> > > > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>> > > > > > decline.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wrong. Norman is right.
>> > > >
>> > > > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not
>> > > > gone
>> > > > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
>> > > > industries and no manufacturing?
>> > >
>> > > I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the
>> > > GDR
>> > > and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>> > > profitable.
>> >
>> > So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
>> > companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
>> > have had in the past)?
>> >
>> > This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.
>>
>> The opposite; it's okay to have modern manufacturing if you don't have Luddite
>> Trades' Unionists throwing spanners into the works.
>
> Isn’t that what I said?

Not in so many words.

> My use of sarcasm with the words unsophisticated and unadvanced were taken
> from the Norman Wells post which maintained that an advanced and
> sophisticated country leaves the manufacturing to other countries.

Then perhaps your sarcasm had been better addressed to Norman.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 9:39 AM, Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall <***@bungay.com> wrote:
>> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
>> (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>>>> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>>>> decline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>>>>
>>>> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
>>>> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
>>>> industries and no manufacturing?
>>>
>>> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
>>> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>>> profitable.
>>
>> So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
>> companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
>> have had in the past)?
>>
>> This sounds more like a vendetta against unions than an economic principle.
>
> The opposite; it's okay to have modern manufacturing if you don't have Luddite
> Trades' Unionists throwing spanners into the works.

Correct.

I first learned that expression "throw spanners into the works" while in
grad school at UCLA in 1980. One of my professors, a Swede named Axel
Leijonhufvud, used it. Of course, being a Swede, he said it as
"shpanner in der verks". It was great.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 9:37 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Incubus wrote
> (in article <pi59al$jii$***@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall<***@bungay.com> wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
>>> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>>>
>>>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>>>
>>>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>>>> decline.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>>>
>>> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
>>> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
>>> industries and no manufacturing?
>>
>> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
>> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>> profitable.
>
> So basically, it is ok to have unsophisticated and unadvanced manufacturing
> companies if you don’t have power mad trade unions, but no if you do (or
> have had in the past)?

The services sector comprises about 70% of the German economy.
pensive hamster
2018-07-11 17:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 16:56:07 UTC+1, Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> >> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> >> > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
[...]
> >> > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> >> > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> >> >
> >> > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> >> > decline.
> >>
> >> Wrong. Norman is right.
> >
> > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> > industries and no manufacturing?
>
> I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
> and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
> profitable.

I have the impression that German Trades' Unions are quite
powerful, eg.:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-workers-right-28hour-week-trade-union-industrial-action-ig-metall-a8205751.html
11 February 2018
'German workers win right to 28-hour week following industrial
action'

But I think German Trades' Unions and German management
are generally able to work together much better than their
British counterparts.

I think things are a little better in this country now, but in the past,
there was quite a lot of enmity between workers and bosses. The
bosses sometimes regarded the workers as lower-class oiks,
while the workers saw the bosses as snobby arrogant members
of the establishment.

In other words, management and workers were as bad as each
other, in terms of their inability to work constuctively together,
it wasn't just the unions' fault.

The epitome of the arrogant boss class might have been Lady
Docker:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah,_Lady_Docker

'... Her third marriage, to Sir Bernard Docker, the chairman of
Birmingham Small Arms Company (BSA) and its subsidiary,
Daimler, was notable for the couple's extravagant lifestyle. This
was often funded by tax writeoffs and company expenditure that
could not be legitimately defended, which led to Sir Bernard's
removal from BSA's board of directors.'
MM
2018-07-12 09:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:56:05 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>I imagine because West Germany didn't have Trades' Unions (funded by the GDR
>and the USSR) putting a stop to any modernisation that would keep them
>profitable.

Thanks to the British who helped set up the post-war trades unions in
Germany.

Could we not have done the same here?

MM
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 16:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 8:47 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>
>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>
>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>> decline.
>>
>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>
> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> industries and no manufacturing?

No one said "only" services and "no" manufacturing. That's just your
shabby straw man.

It's amusing the way economics illiterates like you fail to recognize
that manufacturing itself is a service.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 16:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
(in article <7Tp1D.104581$***@fx09.iad>):

> On 7/11/2018 8:47 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> > (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
> >
> > > On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
> > > > On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
> > > > (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
> > > > > > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > > > > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
> > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > > > > > happened?
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > > > > > BBC News Magazine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > > > > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > > > > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> > > > > economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> > > > > for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> > > > > (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> > > > > just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> > > > > laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> > > > > solution to anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> > > > > harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
> > > >
> > > > And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
> > > > decline.
> > >
> > > Wrong. Norman is right.
> >
> > But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> > down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> > industries and no manufacturing?
>
> No one said "only" services and "no" manufacturing. That's just your
> shabby straw man.

Quote:- We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I doubt
if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.

>
>
> It's amusing the way economics illiterates like you fail to recognize
> that manufacturing itself is a service.

Like most rightards here, you are a compulsive liar.
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 17:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 16:47, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Rudy Canoza wrote
> (in article <O0p1D.201055$***@fx10.iad>):
>
>> On 7/11/2018 3:19 AM, johnny-knowall wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2018, Norman Wells wrote
>>> (in article <***@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.
>>>
>>> And there in a nutshell is one of the main reasons for our spiralling
>>> decline.
>>
>> Wrong. Norman is right.
>
> But both him and you seem to be unable to explain why Germany have not gone
> down your arrogant "sophisticated state" method of only providing service
> industries and no manufacturing?

Different levels of sophistication and progress. But manufacturing in
Germany still comprises only 21% of the economy.

In time, they may catch up with our progress.
MM
2018-07-12 09:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 08:05:17 -0700, Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con>
wrote:

>Wrong. Norman is right. It is a natural stage of economic development
>to move beyond manufacturing to services.

So when is Germany going to start doing that?

MM
Norman Wells
2018-07-12 11:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 10:34, MM wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 08:05:17 -0700, Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con>
> wrote:
>
>> Wrong. Norman is right. It is a natural stage of economic development
>> to move beyond manufacturing to services.
>
> So when is Germany going to start doing that?

It already has.
pensive hamster
2018-07-11 15:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 11:10:35 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
[...]
> The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> solution to anything.

This source says (in its final paragraph) that "Manufacturing and
production contribute 21 percent" to UK GDP, and services
contribute "more than 78 percent of the GDP"

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042915/how-uk-makes-money.asp

So manufacturing seems a somewhat bigger sector than you say.

Also, there can sometimes be some overlap between manufacturing
and services. I read recently that Rolls Royce loses £1.5m on each
aero jet engine it sells, but makes its profit from the service contract.

Also, manufacturing industry often needs the financial services
industry to find sources of finance for expansion and development.
And vice versa, financial services to some extent needs a
manufacturing sector to provide their financial services to.

> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I doubt
> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
[...]
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 17:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 16:16, pensive hamster wrote:
> On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 11:10:35 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
> [...]
>> The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> solution to anything.
>
> This source says (in its final paragraph) that "Manufacturing and
> production contribute 21 percent" to UK GDP, and services
> contribute "more than 78 percent of the GDP"
>
> https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042915/how-uk-makes-money.asp
>
> So manufacturing seems a somewhat bigger sector than you say.

No. What that says is:

"The 2014 Blue Book tells us that manufacturing accounts for 10 percent
of jobs in the U.K. and 9 percent of GDP output."

That's roughly equivalent to my slightly more recent figures, which come
from parliament.uk

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01942/SN01942.pdf
pensive hamster
2018-07-11 17:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:23:27 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 16:16, pensive hamster wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 11:10:35 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
> > [...]
> >> The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> >> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> >> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> >> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> >> solution to anything.
> >
> > This source says (in its final paragraph) that "Manufacturing and
> > production contribute 21 percent" to UK GDP, and services
> > contribute "more than 78 percent of the GDP"
> >
> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042915/how-uk-makes-money.asp
> >
> > So manufacturing seems a somewhat bigger sector than you say.
>
> No. What that says is:
>
> "The 2014 Blue Book tells us that manufacturing accounts for 10 percent
> of jobs in the U.K. and 9 percent of GDP output."

Yes, you are right, it does say that, earlier in the article. It is a
bit confusing, the article seems to be contradicting itself.

Unless "Manufacturing and production" is different to "manufacturing".
I guess frozen pea production, for example,is "production" but not "manufacture".


> That's roughly equivalent to my slightly more recent figures, which come
> from parliament.uk
>
> researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01942/SN01942.pdf
JNugent
2018-07-11 15:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>> remember
>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>> happened?
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>
>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>
>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>
>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>
> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
> solution to anything.
>
> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I doubt
> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>
>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>> Hungary.
>
> Exactly. Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
> quality or price or labour relations, did we?

I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.

After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
£2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).

That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
unreliable junk.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>> remember
>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>> happened?
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>
>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>
>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>
>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>
>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>> solution to anything.
>>
>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I doubt
>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>
>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>> Hungary.
>>
>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>
> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>
> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>
> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
> unreliable junk.

The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
nationality is absurd and offensive.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-11 17:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:

>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>> remember
>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>> happened?
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>
>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>
>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>
>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>
>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>> solution to anything.
>>>
>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I doubt
>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>
>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>> Hungary.
>>>
>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>
>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>
>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>
>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>> unreliable junk.
>
> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
> nationality is absurd and offensive.

Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!' and
'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from the
greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase profits,
the irony is apparently lost on them.

But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to have.
Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is the result
of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met - the very
definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

Y.

--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'It is hard to see how the Arab world, still less the Arabs of
Fakestine, will suffer from what is mere recognition of accomplished
fact - the presence in Fakestine of a compact, well organized, and
virtually autonomous Jewish community'
(_The Times_ editorial, 01 December 1947)
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 10:12 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I doubt
>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>>
>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>>> Hungary.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>>
>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>
>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>
>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>> unreliable junk.
>>
>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>
> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!' and
> 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from the
> greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase profits,
> the irony is apparently lost on them.
>
> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to have.
> Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is the result
> of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met - the very
> definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

There is economic nationalism everywhere, not just in the UK. I still
recall an optometrist or optician (don't recall which now) scolding me
in the late 1970s or early 1980s for not driving an American made car.
This was in an era when imported cars, especially Japanese, were
devouring American car companies' market share because American made
cars were simply shit - overpriced unreliable lead sled shit. There is
just no fucking way I was going to be driving any 1970s American made car.

If, in the mind of some consumers, British beef and lamb are seen as
superior, then it makes sense for grocers to label it that way. What is
bad and wrong is to force consumers who might prefer beef and lamb
raised elsewhere, either because of lower price or a perceived higher
quality, to buy the domestic stuff. This is what that ignorant shitbag
Trump is doing to us in the USA. It's sheer idiocy, and it's bad and wrong.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 09:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 10:12 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:

>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>> remember seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy
>>>>>>> British". What happened?
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>> sector flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging
>>>>>>> people to be patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...

>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the
>>>>>> UK.

>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of
>>>>> an economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which
>>>>> accounts for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that
>>>>> manufacturing (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK
>>>>> economic activity and just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British'
>>>>> campaign may be laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and
>>>>> will not be the solution to anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I
>>>>> doubt if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic
>>>>> mills.

>>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in
>>>>>> the EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but
>>>>>> they tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers.
>>>>>> I've had to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain,
>>>>>> as it seems that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has
>>>>>> a plant in Hungary.

>>>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK,
>>>>> like British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation
>>>>> for quality or price or labour relations, did we?

>>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>>
>>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>>
>>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>>> unreliable junk.

>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.

>> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!'
>> and 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from
>> the greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase
>> profits, the irony is apparently lost on them.
>>
>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

> There is economic nationalism everywhere, not just in the UK.

Oh, indeed. In most other countries where I have seen this, however, there
is a genuine reason for it. France vaunts its cuisine, and this is to be
expected, as French cuisine is recognised worldwide for its variety and
quality. English cuisine is essentially fish 'n' chips, unless you count
the curries which of course are a by-product of colonialism - which in
itself is just code for 'stealing other nations' cultures'. Germans are
proud of their automotive industry, and this too, I can appreciate - even
if in most countries, the people who drive an Audi, a Mercedes of a BMW
seem to have an IQ hovering around the '50' slot. Israel is a leader in
tech innovation - as is Japan. And so on.

Britain has nothing. There is the history, of course, but British history
is essentially English history, and English history is essentially the
family history of its parasitic royal families. The people who over the
centuries toiled to keep Britain going, have been consigned to the dustbin
of obscurity.

> I still recall an optometrist or optician (don't recall which now)
> scolding me in the late 1970s or early 1980s for not driving an American
> made car. This was in an era when imported cars, especially Japanese,
> were devouring American car companies' market share because American made
> cars were simply shit - overpriced unreliable lead sled shit. There is
> just no fucking way I was going to be driving any 1970s American made
> car.

I personally find the contradictions at the heart of the neo-con to be
about the funniest part of him. Well, watching him struggle for breath at
the end of a rope would be even funnier, but for now, we just have to watch
him struggle to explain how he can champion 'competition' and
'globalisation', and in the next breath, exhort his fellow Britons (or
Americans, or French etc etc etc) to 'buy [insert own nationality here]'.

> If, in the mind of some consumers, British beef and lamb are seen as
> superior, then it makes sense for grocers to label it that way. What is
> bad and wrong is to force consumers who might prefer beef and lamb raised
> elsewhere, either because of lower price or a perceived higher quality,
> to buy the domestic stuff. This is what that ignorant shitbag Trump is
> doing to us in the USA. It's sheer idiocy, and it's bad and wrong.

To be fair, France did this. But then again, as the UK had fed its cows
animal matter just to save money and increase profits, the bleating that
France was being 'unfair' was hilarious. I miss those days.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'... the monstrous morality of anti-Semitism continues as an immortal
beast behind the politically correct mask of anti-Zionism'
(Giulio Meotti)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 17:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:

> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to have.
> Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is the result
> of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met - the very
> definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

No point in watching the match tonight then.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-11 17:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:

>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

> No point in watching the match tonight then.

Me or you? I'm not at all interested in football. In fact, I find
watching any sport to be very boring. I cycle around 250 km per week, but
watching the Tour de France is only marginally more fun than having my
testicles shaved.

(allegedly)

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Make the Entire System Bow Down to Allah...'
(Abu Mounisa (<http://is.gd/k0A13>))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Norman Wells
2018-07-11 17:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 18:45, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>
>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.
>
>> No point in watching the match tonight then.
>
> Me or you?

Any of us. We don't want to catch 'UKIP insanity', do we?

Anyway, I won't be around for the next couple of hours.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 07:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 18:45, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:

>>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP
>>>> insanity.

>>> No point in watching the match tonight then.

>> Me or you?

> Any of us. We don't want to catch 'UKIP insanity', do we?

Sadly, if the media hysteria over 'it's coming home' is anything to go by,
ultra-nationalism is rapidly shifting into the mainstream. It looks like
none of the editors of the various English-based media outlets gave a
flying shit about the other nationalities and cultures present in Britain.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy'
(Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Norman Wells
2018-07-12 08:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 08:56, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 18:45, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>
>>>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP
>>>>> insanity.
>
>>>> No point in watching the match tonight then.
>
>>> Me or you?
>
>> Any of us. We don't want to catch 'UKIP insanity', do we?
>
> Sadly, if the media hysteria over 'it's coming home' is anything to go by,
> ultra-nationalism is rapidly shifting into the mainstream. It looks like
> none of the editors of the various English-based media outlets gave a
> flying shit about the other nationalities and cultures present in Britain.

They've complained long enough 'but we're British' whenever they feel
their ethnicity or culture has been used against them. Now they have to
show it.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 08:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 08:56, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 18:45, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>>>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:

>>>>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem
>>>>>> to have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in
>>>>>> fact is the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've
>>>>>> never met - the very definition of nationalism and is what drives
>>>>>> the UKIP insanity.

>>>>> No point in watching the match tonight then.

>>>> Me or you?

>>> Any of us. We don't want to catch 'UKIP insanity', do we?

>> Sadly, if the media hysteria over 'it's coming home' is anything to go
>> by, ultra-nationalism is rapidly shifting into the mainstream. It
>> looks like none of the editors of the various English-based media
>> outlets gave a flying shit about the other nationalities and cultures
>> present in Britain.

> They've complained long enough 'but we're British' whenever they feel
> their ethnicity or culture has been used against them. Now they have to
> show it.

By supporting a country's football team when - if the result of the Wogs
Out Referendum is to be believed - 52% of the population of that country
wants them to forcibly deported?

You're 'avin' a larf.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Smile first thing in the morning. Get it over with'
(W.C. Fields (1880 - 1946))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Norman Wells
2018-07-12 08:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 09:07, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2018 08:56, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 18:45, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>>>>> Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>
>>>>>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem
>>>>>>> to have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in
>>>>>>> fact is the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've
>>>>>>> never met - the very definition of nationalism and is what drives
>>>>>>> the UKIP insanity.
>
>>>>>> No point in watching the match tonight then.
>
>>>>> Me or you?
>
>>>> Any of us. We don't want to catch 'UKIP insanity', do we?
>
>>> Sadly, if the media hysteria over 'it's coming home' is anything to go
>>> by, ultra-nationalism is rapidly shifting into the mainstream. It
>>> looks like none of the editors of the various English-based media
>>> outlets gave a flying shit about the other nationalities and cultures
>>> present in Britain.
>
>> They've complained long enough 'but we're British' whenever they feel
>> their ethnicity or culture has been used against them. Now they have to
>> show it.
>
> By supporting a country's football team when - if the result of the Wogs
> Out Referendum is to be believed - 52% of the population of that country
> wants them to forcibly deported?

No, only those who thought the song was "they're goin' 'ome".
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-11 20:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:45:27 +0100, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
<***@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Norman Wells <***@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 18:12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>
>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.
>
>> No point in watching the match tonight then.
>
>Me or you? I'm not at all interested in football. In fact, I find
>watching any sport to be very boring. I cycle around 250 km per week, but
>watching the Tour de France is only marginally more fun than having my
>testicles shaved.
>
>(allegedly)

Indeed. Who ever HEARD of a jew with testicles, Shitsack?
--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-11 21:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:46:25 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:

>>> No point in watching the match tonight then.
>>
>>Me or you? I'm not at all interested in football. In fact, I find
>>watching any sport to be very boring. I cycle around 250 km per week, but
>>watching the Tour de France is only marginally more fun than having my
>>testicles shaved.
>>
>>(allegedly)
>
> Indeed. Who ever HEARD of a jew with testicles, Shitsack?

Testicles are your speciality ...and men's arses, right, dreckserb Razovic?

--
Dumb anal Razovic's confession on June 30th, 2018:
"Oh no I got a jew hair in my mouth from sucking jew ani"
MID: <***@4ax.com>
Incubus
2018-07-12 08:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I doubt
>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>>
>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>>> Hungary.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>>
>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>
>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>
>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>> unreliable junk.
>>
>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>
> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!' and
> 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from the
> greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase profits,
> the irony is apparently lost on them.
>
> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to have.
> Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is the result
> of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met - the very
> definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

On the other hand, other cultures force their children to marry into the same
culture (and, by extension, race) on pain of being disowned. I have met many
Indian people who have carried out their parents' wishes in that regard. In
Israel, a Jew many not marry a non-Jew and pressure being put on Jews not to
court someone who is non-Jewish isn't exactly unheard of. That seems to me an
example of Nationalism that we wouldn't hear you denounce; rather, you save
your cavilling for labels on food packaging and its associated patriotism.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 09:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:

>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.

>> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!'
>> and 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from
>> the greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase
>> profits, the irony is apparently lost on them.
>>
>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.

> On the other hand, other cultures force their children to marry into the
> same culture (and, by extension, race) on pain of being disowned. I have
> met many Indian people who have carried out their parents' wishes in that
> regard. In Israel, a Jew many not marry a non-Jew and pressure being put
> on Jews not to court someone who is non-Jewish isn't exactly unheard of.
> That seems to me an example of Nationalism that we wouldn't hear you
> denounce; rather, you save your cavilling for labels on food packaging
> and its associated patriotism.

Exactly where does this 'Jews can't marry non-Jews' canard come from? Both
you and Naziboi [1] trot it out quite often. In 2014, Ha'aretz was already
reporting that over 10% of marriages in Israel were 'interfaith' (02 June
2014). The system is not perfect, and the power of the rabbinical courts
is something that needs to be addressed.

Now. About all those 'interfaith' marriages between Jews and Muslims in
Iran, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Algeria...........

Hello?

Y.

[1] to which you might ask, 'which one?'
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are
preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for
generations'
(Yasser Arafat 11 February 1980)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Incubus
2018-07-12 10:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
>>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>
>>> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!'
>>> and 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from
>>> the greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase
>>> profits, the irony is apparently lost on them.
>>>
>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.
>
>> On the other hand, other cultures force their children to marry into the
>> same culture (and, by extension, race) on pain of being disowned. I have
>> met many Indian people who have carried out their parents' wishes in that
>> regard. In Israel, a Jew many not marry a non-Jew and pressure being put
>> on Jews not to court someone who is non-Jewish isn't exactly unheard of.
>> That seems to me an example of Nationalism that we wouldn't hear you
>> denounce; rather, you save your cavilling for labels on food packaging
>> and its associated patriotism.
>
> Exactly where does this 'Jews can't marry non-Jews' canard come from? Both
> you and Naziboi [1] trot it out quite often. In 2014, Ha'aretz was already
> reporting that over 10% of marriages in Israel were 'interfaith' (02 June
> 2014). The system is not perfect, and the power of the rabbinical courts
> is something that needs to be addressed.

Do you mean this article?

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-why-interfaith-marriage-is-on-the-rise-1.5250507

'Why Interfaith Marriage Is On The Rise In Israel - And Why It's A Problem'?

'As many as one in 10 Israeli marriages are interfaith, with the non-Jewish
partner often subjected to second-class treatment by the state.'

'Rona Shulman and Thomas Lebreton had been together for six years and had two
daughters before they decided to tie the knot. But they had to leave Israel to
get married, because Thomas isn’t Jewish, and Israeli law does not permit
marriages between members of different religions within its borders.'

That article confirms that 'canard'.

My point is that you'll happily decry our Nationalism and accuse us of hating
people we've never met but there is nothing of the nature of that law codified
anywhere in our legal system. You're very selective about your complaints.

> Now. About all those 'interfaith' marriages between Jews and Muslims in
> Iran, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Algeria...........
>
> Hello?

If citizens of those countries came to this group making similar accusations of
us, I could well ask the same question of them, and many more besides.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-12 13:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 10:06:16 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2018-07-12, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>>
>>>> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!'
>>>> and 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from
>>>> the greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase
>>>> profits, the irony is apparently lost on them.
>>>>
>>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.
>>
>>> On the other hand, other cultures force their children to marry into the
>>> same culture (and, by extension, race) on pain of being disowned. I have
>>> met many Indian people who have carried out their parents' wishes in that
>>> regard. In Israel, a Jew many not marry a non-Jew and pressure being put
>>> on Jews not to court someone who is non-Jewish isn't exactly unheard of.
>>> That seems to me an example of Nationalism that we wouldn't hear you
>>> denounce; rather, you save your cavilling for labels on food packaging
>>> and its associated patriotism.
>>
>> Exactly where does this 'Jews can't marry non-Jews' canard come from? Both
>> you and Naziboi [1] trot it out quite often. In 2014, Ha'aretz was already
>> reporting that over 10% of marriages in Israel were 'interfaith' (02 June
>> 2014). The system is not perfect, and the power of the rabbinical courts
>> is something that needs to be addressed.
>
>Do you mean this article?
>
>https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-why-interfaith-marriage-is-on-the-rise-1.5250507
>
>'Why Interfaith Marriage Is On The Rise In Israel - And Why It's A Problem'?

Izzy 'newspaper' 'Haaretz also acknowledges that 'Israeel' is a
pedophile paradise.

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5094700

--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-12 17:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 06:25:45 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:

>>Do you mean this article?
>>
>>https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-why-interfaith-marriage-is-on-the-rise-1.5250507
>>
>>'Why Interfaith Marriage Is On The Rise In Israel - And Why It's A Problem'?
>
> Izzy 'newspaper' 'Haaretz also acknowledges that 'Israeel' is a
> pedophile paradise.

If it were, you'd have moved to Israel already long time ago, dreckserb!

--
Dumb anal Razovic's confession on June 30th, 2018:
"Oh no I got a jew hair in my mouth from sucking jew ani"
MID: <***@4ax.com>
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-12 13:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 10:37:19 +0100, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
<***@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
>>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>
>>> Exactly what I was thinking. I am always amused to see 'British beef!'
>>> and 'British lamb' on packaging in British supermarkets. Coming from
>>> the greedy, dirty man of Europe who poisoned its livestock to increase
>>> profits, the irony is apparently lost on them.
>>>
>>> But it's all part of the 'proud to be British' shit that they seem to
>>> have. Being 'proud' of something you didn't do, and which in fact is
>>> the result of chance, is - along with hating people you've never met -
>>> the very definition of nationalism and is what drives the UKIP insanity.
>
>> On the other hand, other cultures force their children to marry into the
>> same culture (and, by extension, race) on pain of being disowned. I have
>> met many Indian people who have carried out their parents' wishes in that
>> regard. In Israel, a Jew many not marry a non-Jew and pressure being put
>> on Jews not to court someone who is non-Jewish isn't exactly unheard of.
>> That seems to me an example of Nationalism that we wouldn't hear you
>> denounce; rather, you save your cavilling for labels on food packaging
>> and its associated patriotism.
>
>Exactly where does this 'Jews can't marry non-Jews' canard come from? Both
>you and Naziboi [1] trot it out quite often. In 2014, Ha'aretz was already
>reporting that over 10% of marriages in Israel were 'interfaith' (02 June
>2014). The system is not perfect, and the power of the rabbinical courts
>is something that needs to be addressed.
>
>Now. About all those 'interfaith' marriages between Jews and Muslims in
>Iran, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Algeria...........
>
>Hello?

Hello Shitsack!

I suppose you're going to tell us that orthodox jews sodomising each
other through a hole in a sheet is a 'canard' too?

--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-12 17:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 06:42:45 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:

>>Exactly where does this 'Jews can't marry non-Jews' canard come from? Both
>>you and Naziboi [1] trot it out quite often. In 2014, Ha'aretz was already
>>reporting that over 10% of marriages in Israel were 'interfaith' (02 June
>>2014). The system is not perfect, and the power of the rabbinical courts
>>is something that needs to be addressed.
>>
>>Now. About all those 'interfaith' marriages between Jews and Muslims in
>>Iran, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Algeria...........
>>
>>Hello?
>
> Hello Shitsack!
>
> I suppose you're going to tell us that orthodox jews sodomising each
> other through a hole in a sheet is a 'canard' too?

If that were the case you'd have converted to Judaism already long time ago,
dreckserb!

--
Dumb anal Razovic admitting about his nazi kind:
"We've Been Counting jew ani and sucking them dry!!"
MID: <***@4ax.com>
JNugent
2018-07-11 21:34:29 UTC
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On 11/07/2018 18:04, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>> remember
>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>> happened?
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>
>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>
>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>
>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the UK.
>>>
>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all of an
>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>> solution to anything.
>>>
>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I doubt
>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>
>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>> Hungary.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>
>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>
>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>
>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>> unreliable junk.
>
> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
> nationality is absurd and offensive.

The notion that a nation has shared common interests - some of them
economic - is anything but absurd, and certainly could only be offensive
to people with very warped ideas.

I *still* feel a sense of duty to spend locally (if I can) in order to
support local businesses and to scale that up nationally - *if* I can.
But I can't, at least, not always.

In particular, I concluded nearly 40 years ago that the UK car industry
- especially British Leyland (neé Austin) - had taken the piss once too
often for me. My sense of duty to that company and its workers
evaporated over a matter of months. It will never return. However,
various friends and acquaintances had already told and warned me of this
beforehand. But I had to learn it for myself.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 21:36:55 UTC
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On 7/11/2018 2:34 PM, JNugent wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 18:04, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>
>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in the
>>>>> UK.
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>> of an
>>>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which accounts
>>>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that manufacturing
>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>
>>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I
>>>> doubt
>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>>
>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>>> Hungary.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>>
>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>
>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>
>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>> unreliable junk.
>>
>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>
> The notion that a nation has shared common interests - some of them
> economic - is anything but absurd, and certainly could only be offensive
> to people with very warped ideas.

Those interests do not extend to a moral obligation to buy only or
mostly from fellow citizens or subjects.

> I *still* feel a sense of duty to spend locally (if I can) in order to
> support local businesses and to scale that up nationally - *if* I can.
> But I can't, at least, not always.
>
> In particular, I concluded nearly 40 years ago that the UK car industry
> - especially British Leyland (neé Austin) - had taken the piss once too
> often for me. My sense of duty to that company and its workers
> evaporated over a matter of months. It will never return. However,
> various friends and acquaintances had already told and warned me of this
> beforehand. But I had to learn it for myself.
JNugent
2018-07-11 21:40:42 UTC
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On 11/07/2018 22:36, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 2:34 PM, JNugent wrote:
>> On 11/07/2018 18:04, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>> sector
>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
>>>>>> the UK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>>> of an
>>>>> economy. Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which
>>>>> accounts
>>>>> for the article referred to. The truth, however, is that
>>>>> manufacturing
>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>> just 8% of all jobs. So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy. We leave metal bashing and
>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour. I
>>>>> doubt
>>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic mills.
>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in the
>>>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it seems
>>>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>>>> Hungary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK, like
>>>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>>>
>>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>>
>>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>>
>>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>>> unreliable junk.
>>>
>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>>
>> The notion that a nation has shared common interests - some of them
>> economic - is anything but absurd, and certainly could only be
>> offensive to people with very warped ideas.
>
> Those interests do not extend to a moral obligation to buy only or
> mostly from fellow citizens or subjects.

Moral obligations are subjective. If one feels morally obliged, one *is*
morally obliged, even though the only sanction for failing to live up to
that obligation is a sense of vague guilt.

>> I *still* feel a sense of duty to spend locally (if I can) in order to
>> support local businesses and to scale that up nationally - *if* I can.
>> But I can't, at least, not always.
>>
>> In particular, I concluded nearly 40 years ago that the UK car
>> industry - especially British Leyland (neé Austin) - had taken the
>> piss once too often for me. My sense of duty to that company and its
>> workers evaporated over a matter of months. It will never return.
>> However, various friends and acquaintances had already told and warned
>> me of this beforehand. But I had to learn it for myself.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 21:50:57 UTC
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Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 2:40 PM, JNugent wrote:
> On 11/07/2018 22:36, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 2:34 PM, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2018 18:04, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 7/11/2018 8:35 AM, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2018 11:10, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/07/2018 09:48, Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>>>>>>>> happened?
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By Caroline McClatchey
>>>>>>>> BBC News Magazine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing
>>>>>>>> sector
>>>>>>>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One problem in the modern world would be finding things made in
>>>>>>> the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another problem is 'things', as if they are the be all and end all
>>>>>> of an
>>>>>> economy.  Many ignorant journalists can't see past that, which
>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>> for the article referred to.  The truth, however, is that
>>>>>> manufacturing
>>>>>> (of 'things') only accounts for about 10% of UK economic activity and
>>>>>> just 8% of all jobs.  So, while a 'Buy British' campaign may be
>>>>>> laudable, it will be of rather limited effect and will not be the
>>>>>> solution to anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now an advanced service economy.  We leave metal bashing and
>>>>>> harder work to others who can do it better with cheaper labour.  I
>>>>>> doubt
>>>>>> if many here would welcome a return to the days of dark Satanic
>>>>>> mills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, 60% of the Mini, an iconic British brand, is made in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> EU. You will find a few completely British manufacturers, but they
>>>>>>> tend to be small independents, rather than major suppliers. I've had
>>>>>>> to stop saying that the goods I sell are made in Britain, as it
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> that the Midlands company that makes them for me now has a plant in
>>>>>>> Hungary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly.  Besides, when we did have more manufacturing in the UK,
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> British Leyland, we didn't exactly have the highest reputation for
>>>>>> quality or price or labour relations, did we?
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember being very patriotic about car-buying in my twenties.
>>>>>
>>>>> After a succession of old bangers and then a couple of late model
>>>>> UK-built cars, the first new car I ever bought was a 1978 Mini (S Reg,
>>>>> £2,208). I even checked and re-checked that it had not been built in
>>>>> Belgium (BL had a plant there making Minis at the time).
>>>>>
>>>>> That car cured me forever of misplaced patriotism. It was a heap of
>>>>> unreliable junk.
>>>>
>>>> The notion that you "owe" your custom to people with whom you share a
>>>> nationality is absurd and offensive.
>>>
>>> The notion that a nation has shared common interests - some of them
>>> economic - is anything but absurd, and certainly could only be
>>> offensive to people with very warped ideas.
>>
>> Those interests do not extend to a moral obligation to buy only or
>> mostly from fellow citizens or subjects.
>
> Moral obligations are subjective. If one feels morally obliged, one *is*
> morally obliged, even though the only sanction for failing to live up to
> that obligation is a sense of vague guilt.

Acts by the state that prohibit or significantly raise the cost of
imports necessarily make moral obligation objective.

You don't get to decide for yourself on the morality of all actions.
You don't get to decide that it's moral for you to go out to the street
and blowtorch a neighbor's dog.

>>> I *still* feel a sense of duty to spend locally (if I can) in order to
>>> support local businesses and to scale that up nationally - *if* I can.
>>> But I can't, at least, not always.
>>>
>>> In particular, I concluded nearly 40 years ago that the UK car
>>> industry - especially British Leyland (neé Austin) - had taken the
>>> piss once too often for me. My sense of duty to that company and its
>>> workers evaporated over a matter of months. It will never return.
>>> However, various friends and acquaintances had already told and warned
>>> me of this beforehand. But I had to learn it for myself.
Joe
2018-07-12 07:40:18 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:50:57 -0700
Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:


>
> You don't get to decide for yourself on the morality of all actions.

Actually, yes, you do. Nobody else has the right.

> You don't get to decide that it's moral for you to go out to the
> street and blowtorch a neighbor's dog.

Yes, I do. On the whole, I would not consider that moral, but it's *my*
decision, not yours.

That's what equality really means: nobody having the right to impose
their personal moral decisions on other people.

--
Joe
Norman Wells
2018-07-12 07:59:11 UTC
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Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 08:40, Joe wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:50:57 -0700
> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:

>> You don't get to decide for yourself on the morality of all actions.
>
> Actually, yes, you do. Nobody else has the right.
>
>> You don't get to decide that it's moral for you to go out to the
>> street and blowtorch a neighbor's dog.
>
> Yes, I do. On the whole, I would not consider that moral,

How about the neighbour's cat shitting in your garden though?

Surely it's moral to blowtorch that?

> but it's *my* decision, not yours.

Quite. The problem is, the law doesn't always agree.
Shitsack Moishe Goldberg
2018-07-12 16:53:17 UTC
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In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@unseen.ac.am says...
>
> On 12/07/2018 08:40, Joe wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:50:57 -0700
> > Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
> >> You don't get to decide for yourself on the morality of all actions.
> >
> > Actually, yes, you do. Nobody else has the right.
> >
> >> You don't get to decide that it's moral for you to go out to the
> >> street and blowtorch a neighbor's dog.
> >
> > Yes, I do. On the whole, I would not consider that moral,
>
> How about the neighbour's cat shitting in your garden though?
>
> Surely it's moral to blowtorch that?

No, it's not. But it would be moral to blowtorch a jew infesting your
neighbourhood.
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-12 17:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/12/2018 12:40 AM, Joe wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:50:57 -0700
> Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You don't get to decide for yourself on the morality of all actions.
>
> Actually, yes, you do.

No.

>> You don't get to decide that it's moral for you to go out to the
>> street and blowtorch a neighbor's dog.
>
> Yes, I do.

No.
Dan S. MacAbre
2018-07-11 09:03:58 UTC
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Raw Message
Byker wrote:
> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> happened?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>
> By Caroline McClatchey
> BBC News Magazine
>
> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
>
> When buying a jumper, a piece of furniture or a bag of apples, do you check
> to see where it has come from?
>
> Do people care whether it was designed, manufactured or grown by British
> firms or farms?
>
> These are troubling times for Britain's manufacturing sector, once a
> relative bright spot in the country's lacklustre recovery, which contracted
> at its fastest pace in more than two years in October, as new orders
> plummeted.
>
> But there is unlikely to be a clamour for consumers to start buying
> British.
>
> In the US, people are used to hearing the phrase "buy American". It is seen
> as one of the ways of putting Americans back to work.
>
> Adverts proudly proclaim how the product was born and bred in America, and
> closer to home, many French people would not dream of drinking anything
> other than French wine or driving anything other than a French car.
>
> There was a surge in patriotic "buy American" rhetoric in the wake of 9/11,
> and it has returned to the fore in recent months as the country
> struggles to
> cope with rising unemployment.
>
> But economic nationalism stretches back to the American Revolution. The
> Boston Tea Party was all about rejecting foreign-made products and there
> was
> another upsurge of it in the 1930s during the Depression.
>
> According to a recent poll, 80% of Americans think it their patriotic duty
> to choose US-made products over foreign ones and there are many websites
> devoted to helping consumers find them.
>
> But it is not clear how successful such campaigns have been in
> protecting US
> jobs.
>
> America's biggest retailer Wal-Mart came under fire in the early 1990s for
> its "Bring It Home to the USA" marketing campaign after footage of children
> working in factories in Bangladesh emerged.
>
> There has been a xenophobic undercurrent to some of the rhetoric in the
> past, such as the late 1970s campaign by auto workers to save their jobs,
> which flirted with Japan-bashing.
>
> But in a sign of how times have changed, Japanese car giant Toyota is the
> latest big company to wrap itself in the stars and stripes, in TV ads
> showing off its American workforce, as it seeks to recover from a recall
> crisis.
>
> There have been many Buy British initiatives over the years. Perhaps the
> most famous was the I'm Backing Britain campaign in the late 1960s.
>
> It began in December 1967 when five secretaries at a ventilation and
> heating
> company volunteered to work an extra half hour each day without pay to do
> their bit for the flagging economy. It took on a life of its own and within
> the week, other companies were following suit.
>
> Union jacks started to appear everywhere, the government endorsed the
> campaign and popular newspapers threw their weight behind it. But it
> fizzled
> out within months.
>
> The then Labour MP Robert Maxwell launched a rival motto Buy British, a
> record sung by Bruce Forsyth sold just 7,319 copies, and campaign T-shirts
> were found to have been made in Portugal.
>
> The song's chorus had the line: "The feeling is growing, so let's keep it
> going, the good times are blowing our way."
>
> Surely British shoppers and workers could do with a similar injection of
> national pride in these economic dire straits? John Lewis certainly thinks
> so.
>
> Last week, the retailer launched a new campaign to champion British
> manufacturing. From early next year, a Made in UK logo will start appearing
> on ticketing and online product information to highlight British-made
> products.
>
> Other business leaders have also recently floated the idea, including the
> managing director of organic food brand Yeo Valley. Earlier this year,
> Merseyside cooker company Stoves launched a Made in Britain campaign and
> says some 250 manufacturers are now using the logo.
>
> But it will take more than a handful of firms to change the British
> consumer
> mentality, says Vincent-Wayne Mitchell, professor of consumer marketing at
> the Cass Business School, City University London.
>
> He says the default setting is unpatriotic because shoppers believe "German
> salami is better than British salami and French wine is better than British
> wine". Empire and immigration has led to the British consumer becoming
> "much
> less parochial".
>
> "It takes a great deal of effort to change consumer consciousness. The
> government needs to be behind a campaign to give it economic credibility."
>
> But despite daily doomsday reports about high unemployment and low growth,
> the politicians have not been ordering us to go and buy British. Why?
>
> Political pundit Kevin Maguire says it would be a bit like shooting
> yourself
> in the foot.
>
> "It would be very hard for Cameron to stand up and say Buy British, when
> half of our exports go to the EU. If they did the same half our exports
> would no longer go there."
>
> The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills says the UK relies on
> open markets and a Buy British campaign would be counter-productive.
>
> "UK companies need to be able to access global markets so restricting
> access
> to the UK or the EU market could all too easily encourage retaliation,
> which
> would leave everyone worse off."
>
> Food is one sector where the Buy British idea is having an impact. The
> farming industry has been trying to reverse a decline in the amount of
> British produce consumed - it has fallen from 75% in the early 1990s to
> 60% - through various campaigns.
>
> The Red Tractor logo marks British food regarded as having high
> standards of
> safety and hygiene, animal welfare and environmental protection.
>
> "Some food manufacturers have stepped forward and said they are only going
> to use British ingredients. Country Life is a very good example of that,"
> says Sarah Whitelock, from the National Farmers Union.
>
> Although consumers may be thinking more about where their food comes from
> and how many miles it travelled to reach their plate, the same cannot be
> said for their trainers, tables or television sets.
>
> Prof Mitchell says the impulse to buy British tends to be associated with
> more expensive goods.
>
> This means it can often be a choice between buying a luxury shirt made in
> the UK from London's Jermyn Street and buying a mass-produced shirt made in
> China from any High Street retailer.
>
> In addition to price, another problem for any Buy British campaign could be
> that many people assume that nothing is manufactured in the UK.
>
> While the days of millions of people employed in industries producing large
> volumes of low-value goods may be a distant memory, the UK is the sixth
> largest manufacturer in the world by output and a leading exporter of
> high-tech goods.
>
> And there are plenty of other statistics to blow away the rumours of the
> sector's demise - manufacturing is the third largest sector in the UK,
> after
> business services and wholesale/retail, and output reached an all-time high
> in 2007.
>
> The UK is producing more with fewer people, and like most modern economies,
> the focus has turned to higher-value items such as aerospace and defence
> equipment.
>
> There tends to be a hue and cry when British brands are taken over by
> foreign-owned firms or when British companies take their production
> overseas.
>
> But there has been a trend for design teams to remain behind. One of the
> best examples was when Dyson shifted production to Malaysia from Malmesbury
> in Wiltshire in 2002. Manufacturing jobs were lost, while research and
> design jobs remained.
>
> The latest figures, from the Design Council, show the UK design industry is
> expanding despite the difficult economic climate.
>
> The design sector has grown over the last five years, with numbers of
> designers increasing by 29% to 232,000.
>
> And the combined fee incomes of freelances and design consultancies, and
> budgets of in-house design teams, have increased by £3.4bn to £15bn.
>
> Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says Britain is
> internationally renowned for its design skills.
>
> "The UK has a great reputation abroad, whether for its architects such as
> Norman Foster and Richard Rogers, fashion designers or industrial
> designers."
>
> Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says many people
> imagine that the UK is devoid of manufacturing since production started to
> move to the Far East, but there is in its place a rich mix of high-tech
> manufacturing, such as race-car makers McLaren, and artisanal producers
> such
> as furniture makers Ercol.
>
> Terry Scuoler, chief executive of EEF, the manufacturers' association,
> admits the sector does have an image problem.
>
> "There's an image out there that Britain is not a manufacturing giant.
> While
> we have lost a number of iconic brands, we are still a major manufacturer.
> We might not be making jets but we make very large parts of them.
>
> "Britain is a big car manufacturer. Nissan, Honda, BMW have plants in the
> UK."
>
> Therein lies another problem - what counts as a British product? Scuoler
> says this is irrelevant and any campaign should be Made in Britain, not Buy
> British.
>
> He says foreign-owned firms are a massive part of our economy and are big
> investors and employers.
>
> "Made in Britain would be a healthy banner and a healthy battle cry. The
> issue is not British ownership. It's about investing in Britain."
>
> Hunter thinks a Buy British campaign sounds like a throwback to the
> post-war
> years and it actually has a different meaning in today's globalised world.
>
> "I don't think it's about spending your money at home in a xenophobic way.
> It's about dispelling the myth that we no longer make anything and don't
> develop anything wonderful."
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15551818

People are more interested in buying cheap, disposable stuff. Which
means it has to come from the far east.
Dean Jackson
2018-07-11 09:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> happened?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>
> By Caroline McClatchey
> BBC News Magazine
>
> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
>
Back in the late 60's a British Company called Colt Ventilation started
a buy British campaign with some success.
There is now a need for a new campaign
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s-time-for-a-modern-buy-british-campaign-9r9vrjbjk
D.J.
johnny-knowall
2018-07-11 10:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Jul 2018, Dean Jackson wrote
(in article <tVj1D.372009$***@fx02.am4>):

> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > happened?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> >
> > By Caroline McClatchey
> > BBC News Magazine
> >
> > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
> Back in the late 60's a British Company called Colt Ventilation started
> a buy British campaign with some success.
> There is now a need for a new campaign
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s-time-for-a-modern-buy-british-campaign
> -9r9vrjbjk
> D.J.

There was an “I’m Backing Britain” campaign around 1967/8, but once M&S
finally removed its British manufacturer policy and began to source its
products from cheap African and Asian sweatshops, we were doomed as a
manufacturing nation.

I heard a company boss on the radio, his firm produces metal components for
the transport industry.

He imports raw material from Belgium.

Why? Nobody asks the question. Why can’t we produce the steel ourselves? We
still have (just) a steel making industry, but our government would rather
see it go to the wall rather than invest public money into it.

And there lies the secret of the mess we are in; decades of government by
political dogma instead of investing for our future workforce has wrecked
Britain.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-07-11 11:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, 11 July 2018 11:09:51 UTC+1, johnny-knowall wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2018, Dean Jackson wrote
> (in article <tVj1D.372009$***@fx02.am4>):
>
> > On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
> > > With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> > > seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
> > > happened?
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
> > >
> > > By Caroline McClatchey
> > > BBC News Magazine
> > >
> > > The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> > > flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> > > patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
> > Back in the late 60's a British Company called Colt Ventilation started
> > a buy British campaign with some success.
> > There is now a need for a new campaign
> > https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s-time-for-a-modern-buy-british-campaign
> > -9r9vrjbjk
> > D.J.
>
> There was an “I’m Backing Britain” campaign around 1967/8, but once M&S
> finally removed its British manufacturer policy and began to source its
> products from cheap African and Asian sweatshops, we were doomed as a
> manufacturing nation.
>
> I heard a company boss on the radio, his firm produces metal components for
> the transport industry.
>
> He imports raw material from Belgium.
>
> Why? Nobody asks the question. Why can’t we produce the steel ourselves? We
> still have (just) a steel making industry, but our government would rather
> see it go to the wall rather than invest public money into it.

UK iron ore is low grade, and usable UK coal reserves limited (there is still plenty down there, but getting it out is expensive and dangerous), with only limestone readily available. Consequently the largest UK steelworks are now on the coast, so the raw materials can be easily and cheaply shipped in.

OTOH for basic steel, importing the steel is usually the most economic way to acquire it.

>
> And there lies the secret of the mess we are in; decades of government by
> political dogma instead of investing for our future workforce has wrecked
> Britain.

Well indeed - long term private investment is scared off by the risk of expropriation (steel, shipbuilding etc. even in the 1960's) and sky high taxes under a Labour government and the Tories for the main part leave it to market forces.

Labour governments also interfere negatively in major industrial sectors (cars - BL, motorbikes - gone, computers - almost gone and so on...)
JNugent
2018-07-11 15:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11/07/2018 10:16, Dean Jackson wrote:
> On 10/07/2018 22:44, Byker wrote:
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I
>> remember
>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What
>> happened?
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>>
>> By Caroline McClatchey
>> BBC News Magazine
>>
>> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
>> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
>> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
>>
> Back in the late 60's a British Company called Colt Ventilation started
> a buy British campaign with some success.
> There is now a need for a new campaign
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s-time-for-a-modern-buy-british-campaign-9r9vrjbjk
>
I remember the "I'm Backing Britain" campaign quite well. It soon spread
some distance from the Colt Ventilation company. There were billboard
posters and lots of coverage in the media (which for us was then just
ITV and BBC(1).

I'm fairly sure that it had (Labour) government backing, in the wake of
then-still-recent late 1967 devaluation, and contemporary with the
prohibition on British tourists of their taking more than £35 a head out
of the country.

£35 in 1968 was about the equivalent of £600 today. Presumably that
would have to cover accommodation, food, local transport/car hire and
all incidental spending. You wouldn't get far on it. But most of us
didn't expect to.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-07-11 11:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, 10 July 2018 22:44:39 UTC+1, Byker wrote:
> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What happened?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Buy British: Why isn't there a new campaign?
>
> By Caroline McClatchey
> BBC News Magazine
>
> The British economy is in the doldrums, with the manufacturing sector
> flagging, so why aren't there more campaigns encouraging people to be
> patriotic and buy products made in the UK?
>
> When buying a jumper, a piece of furniture or a bag of apples, do you check
> to see where it has come from?

Sometimes.

>
> Do people care whether it was designed, manufactured or grown by British
> firms or farms?

Usually not.

>
> These are troubling times for Britain's manufacturing sector, once a
> relative bright spot in the country's lacklustre recovery, which contracted
> at its fastest pace in more than two years in October, as new orders
> plummeted.
>
> But there is unlikely to be a clamour for consumers to start buying British.
>
> In the US, people are used to hearing the phrase "buy American". It is seen
> as one of the ways of putting Americans back to work.
>
> Adverts proudly proclaim how the product was born and bred in America, and
> closer to home, many French people would not dream of drinking anything
> other than French wine

partially true, but there is plenty to choose from and why pay the haulage?

> or driving anything other than a French car.

even the French have sussed that one!

>
> There was a surge in patriotic "buy American" rhetoric in the wake of 9/11,
> and it has returned to the fore in recent months as the country struggles to
> cope with rising unemployment.
>
> But economic nationalism stretches back to the American Revolution. The
> Boston Tea Party was all about rejecting foreign-made products and there was
> another upsurge of it in the 1930s during the Depression.
>
> According to a recent poll, 80% of Americans think it their patriotic duty
> to choose US-made products over foreign ones and there are many websites
> devoted to helping consumers find them.
>
> But it is not clear how successful such campaigns have been in protecting US
> jobs.
>
> America's biggest retailer Wal-Mart came under fire in the early 1990s for
> its "Bring It Home to the USA" marketing campaign after footage of children
> working in factories in Bangladesh emerged.
>
> There has been a xenophobic undercurrent to some of the rhetoric in the
> past, such as the late 1970s campaign by auto workers to save their jobs,
> which flirted with Japan-bashing.
>
> But in a sign of how times have changed, Japanese car giant Toyota is the
> latest big company to wrap itself in the stars and stripes, in TV ads
> showing off its American workforce, as it seeks to recover from a recall
> crisis.
>
> There have been many Buy British initiatives over the years. Perhaps the
> most famous was the I'm Backing Britain campaign in the late 1960s.
>
> It began in December 1967 when five secretaries at a ventilation and heating
> company volunteered to work an extra half hour each day without pay to do
> their bit for the flagging economy. It took on a life of its own and within
> the week, other companies were following suit.
>
> Union jacks started to appear everywhere, the government endorsed the
> campaign and popular newspapers threw their weight behind it. But it fizzled
> out within months.
>
> The then Labour MP Robert Maxwell launched a rival motto Buy British, a
> record sung by Bruce Forsyth sold just 7,319 copies, and campaign T-shirts
> were found to have been made in Portugal.
>
> The song's chorus had the line: "The feeling is growing, so let's keep it
> going, the good times are blowing our way."
>
> Surely British shoppers and workers could do with a similar injection of
> national pride in these economic dire straits? John Lewis certainly thinks
> so.
>
> Last week, the retailer launched a new campaign to champion British
> manufacturing. From early next year, a Made in UK logo will start appearing
> on ticketing and online product information to highlight British-made
> products.
>
> Other business leaders have also recently floated the idea, including the
> managing director of organic food brand Yeo Valley. Earlier this year,
> Merseyside cooker company Stoves launched a Made in Britain campaign and
> says some 250 manufacturers are now using the logo.
>
> But it will take more than a handful of firms to change the British consumer
> mentality, says Vincent-Wayne Mitchell, professor of consumer marketing at
> the Cass Business School, City University London.
>
> He says the default setting is unpatriotic because shoppers believe "German
> salami is better than British salami and French wine is better than British
> wine". Empire and immigration has led to the British consumer becoming "much
> less parochial".
>
> "It takes a great deal of effort to change consumer consciousness. The
> government needs to be behind a campaign to give it economic credibility."
>
> But despite daily doomsday reports about high unemployment and low growth,
> the politicians have not been ordering us to go and buy British. Why?
>
> Political pundit Kevin Maguire says it would be a bit like shooting yourself
> in the foot.
>
> "It would be very hard for Cameron to stand up and say Buy British, when
> half of our exports go to the EU. If they did the same half our exports
> would no longer go there."
>
> The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills says the UK relies on
> open markets and a Buy British campaign would be counter-productive.
>
> "UK companies need to be able to access global markets so restricting access
> to the UK or the EU market could all too easily encourage retaliation, which
> would leave everyone worse off."
>
> Food is one sector where the Buy British idea is having an impact. The
> farming industry has been trying to reverse a decline in the amount of
> British produce consumed - it has fallen from 75% in the early 1990s to
> 60% - through various campaigns.
>
> The Red Tractor logo marks British food regarded as having high standards of
> safety and hygiene, animal welfare and environmental protection.

Like "Fair Trade", the Red Tractor logo is basically a device to get consumers to pay RoB prices for higher margin products. E.g. Welsh spring lamb is fatty, lacking in flavour, over-priced and intensively reared indoors on feedstock, whereas NZ is leaner, more flavoursome, cheaper and naturally reared outdoors on milk and grass.

>
> "Some food manufacturers have stepped forward and said they are only going
> to use British ingredients. Country Life is a very good example of that,"
> says Sarah Whitelock, from the National Farmers Union.
>
> Although consumers may be thinking more about where their food comes from
> and how many miles it travelled to reach their plate, the same cannot be
> said for their trainers, tables or television sets.
>
> Prof Mitchell says the impulse to buy British tends to be associated with
> more expensive goods.
>
> This means it can often be a choice between buying a luxury shirt made in
> the UK from London's Jermyn Street and buying a mass-produced shirt made in
> China from any High Street retailer.
>
> In addition to price, another problem for any Buy British campaign could be
> that many people assume that nothing is manufactured in the UK.
>
> While the days of millions of people employed in industries producing large
> volumes of low-value goods may be a distant memory, the UK is the sixth
> largest manufacturer in the world by output and a leading exporter of
> high-tech goods.
>
> And there are plenty of other statistics to blow away the rumours of the
> sector's demise - manufacturing is the third largest sector in the UK, after
> business services and wholesale/retail, and output reached an all-time high
> in 2007.
>
> The UK is producing more with fewer people, and like most modern economies,
> the focus has turned to higher-value items such as aerospace and defence
> equipment.
>
> There tends to be a hue and cry when British brands are taken over by
> foreign-owned firms or when British companies take their production
> overseas.
>
> But there has been a trend for design teams to remain behind. One of the
> best examples was when Dyson shifted production to Malaysia from Malmesbury
> in Wiltshire in 2002. Manufacturing jobs were lost, while research and
> design jobs remained.
>
> The latest figures, from the Design Council, show the UK design industry is
> expanding despite the difficult economic climate.
>
> The design sector has grown over the last five years, with numbers of
> designers increasing by 29% to 232,000.
>
> And the combined fee incomes of freelances and design consultancies, and
> budgets of in-house design teams, have increased by £3.4bn to £15bn.
>
> Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says Britain is
> internationally renowned for its design skills.
>
> "The UK has a great reputation abroad, whether for its architects such as
> Norman Foster and Richard Rogers, fashion designers or industrial
> designers."
>
> Mat Hunter, chief design officer for the Design Council, says many people
> imagine that the UK is devoid of manufacturing since production started to
> move to the Far East, but there is in its place a rich mix of high-tech
> manufacturing, such as race-car makers McLaren, and artisanal producers such
> as furniture makers Ercol.
>
> Terry Scuoler, chief executive of EEF, the manufacturers' association,
> admits the sector does have an image problem.
>
> "There's an image out there that Britain is not a manufacturing giant. While
> we have lost a number of iconic brands, we are still a major manufacturer.
> We might not be making jets but we make very large parts of them.
>
> "Britain is a big car manufacturer. Nissan, Honda, BMW have plants in the
> UK."
>
> Therein lies another problem - what counts as a British product? Scuoler
> says this is irrelevant and any campaign should be Made in Britain, not Buy
> British.
>
> He says foreign-owned firms are a massive part of our economy and are big
> investors and employers.
>
> "Made in Britain would be a healthy banner and a healthy battle cry. The
> issue is not British ownership. It's about investing in Britain."
>
> Hunter thinks a Buy British campaign sounds like a throwback to the post-war
> years and it actually has a different meaning in today's globalised world.
>
> "I don't think it's about spending your money at home in a xenophobic way.
> It's about dispelling the myth that we no longer make anything and don't
> develop anything wonderful."
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15551818
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-11 17:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
question'.

I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
insisted that he was correct.

Y.

--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'It simply cannot be disputed that for decades, the Fakestinian
leadership was more interested in there not being a Jewish state, than
in there being a Fakestinian state'
(Professor Alan M. Dershowitz (1938 - ))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Byker
2018-07-11 17:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
news:b4rh1f-***@server.com.il...

Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
> question'.

If you can write this well a half-century since your last English class,
then my do-rag is off to you...
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-11 17:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
> "Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
> news:b4rh1f-***@server.com.il...
> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>> the question'.

> If you can write this well a half-century since your last English class,
> then my do-rag is off to you...

For my sins, I used to teach it. Learning a foreign language is very good
for learning one's own, and aside from my native language, I speak three
foreign languages (or two, if you count Hebrew as a 'native' language which
it never really was as like most Western-born Jews, it was rarely more than
liturgical). I'm only really fluent in French, English and Hebrew,
however.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Retake Gaza - now!'
(Me)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 18:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 10:42 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>> "Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
>> news:b4rh1f-***@server.com.il...
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>>> the question'.
>
>> If you can write this well a half-century since your last English class,
>> then my do-rag is off to you...
>
> For my sins, I used to teach it. Learning a foreign language is very good
> for learning one's own,

*Another* point of similarity between you and myself...goddamnit, I mean
you and me. I took four years of French in high school in the 1960s,
but I was an indifferent student in it. Then in the early 1970s, I
spent a year as an exchange student in Geneva, living with a Swiss
family that spoke virtually no English and taking all my classes in
French, and by the end of the year I was nearly fluent, including having
acquired a Genevan accent (so French people I met told me.) It made all
manner of points of English grammar suddenly come back to me, with a
clarity they had never had when I was learning them (or faking it) years
earlier.

The same happened again when I lived in Bavaria for 18 months in the mid
1980s. I got to speak passable German - never as close to fluency as in
French - and once again, learning German vocabulary and grammar helped
me gain a better understanding of English.

> and aside from my native language, I speak three
> foreign languages (or two, if you count Hebrew as a 'native' language which
> it never really was as like most Western-born Jews, it was rarely more than
> liturgical). I'm only really fluent in French, English and Hebrew,
> however.
>
> Y.
>
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 09:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 10:42 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>> "Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
>>> news:b4rh1f-***@server.com.il...
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

>>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>>>> the question'.

>>> If you can write this well a half-century since your last English
>>> class, then my do-rag is off to you...

>> For my sins, I used to teach it. Learning a foreign language is very
>> good for learning one's own,

> *Another* point of similarity between you and myself...

Be careful .. we have one hyper-rightard here who thinks I have
'sockpuppets'. He'll be accusing you of being me soon if this carries on!

> goddamnit, I mean you and me. I took four years of French in high school
> in the 1960s, but I was an indifferent student in it. Then in the early
> 1970s, I spent a year as an exchange student in Geneva, living with a
> Swiss family that spoke virtually no English and taking all my classes in
> French, and by the end of the year I was nearly fluent, including having
> acquired a Genevan accent (so French people I met told me.) It made all
> manner of points of English grammar suddenly come back to me, with a
> clarity they had never had when I was learning them (or faking it) years
> earlier.
>
> The same happened again when I lived in Bavaria for 18 months in the mid
> 1980s. I got to speak passable German - never as close to fluency as in
> French - and once again, learning German vocabulary and grammar helped me
> gain a better understanding of English.

Ah, travel. It is a passion of mine (and of my wife), and languages help
to enrich the experience. I started learning Mandarin about five years
ago, and can but confirm what most 'Westerners' say: it's bloody hard.
There is no way I will ever be fluent, but we hope to be back in China
before 2020. I love the place.

I think that the widespread racism that characterises England is due in no
small part to 'Britain' being an island. The British like to tell
themselves that theirs is an open and tolerant country. It isn't. England
is a _deeply_ racist country. Scotland and Wales, less so.

Y.

--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'The same Europe that let Jews be exterminated on its soil is letting
Jews be exterminated now, looking away and letting itself off the
hook...'
(Giulio Meotti)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-11 20:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:42:58 +0100, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
<***@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>> "Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
>> news:b4rh1f-***@server.com.il...
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>>> the question'.
>
>> If you can write this well a half-century since your last English class,
>> then my do-rag is off to you...
>
>For my sins, I used to teach it. Learning a foreign language is very good
>for learning one's own, and aside from my native language, I speak three
>foreign languages (or two, if you count Hebrew as a 'native' language which
>it never really was as like most Western-born Jews, it was rarely more than
>liturgical). I'm only really fluent in French, English and Hebrew,
>however.

Surely yiddish as well, Shitsack...ALL jew ragheads can babble in
yiddish!
--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-11 21:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:44:47 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:


>>> If you can write this well a half-century since your last English class,
>>> then my do-rag is off to you...
>>
>>For my sins, I used to teach it. Learning a foreign language is very good
>>for learning one's own, and aside from my native language, I speak three
>>foreign languages (or two, if you count Hebrew as a 'native' language which
>>it never really was as like most Western-born Jews, it was rarely more than
>>liturgical). I'm only really fluent in French, English and Hebrew,
>>however.
>
> Surely yiddish as well, Shitsack...ALL jew ragheads can babble in
> yiddish!

Well, at least those Jews whose ani you counted and sucked dry (see sig),
dreckserb Razovic!

--
Dumb anal Razovic about his nazi kind:
"We've Been Counting jew ani and sucking them dry!!"
MID: <***@4ax.com>
Rudy Canoza
2018-07-11 17:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/11/2018 10:24 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
> question'.
>
> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
> insisted that he was correct.

You and myself...err, you and I...think alike on slovenly vulgar English
(mis)usage among the lowbrows. I am seriously irked by both of the
misuses you identify above. Keep fighting the good fight.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 09:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Rudy Canoza <***@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 10:24 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>> the question'.
>>
>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>> used non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>> and then insisted that he was correct.

> You and myself...err, you and I...think alike on slovenly vulgar English
> (mis)usage among the lowbrows. I am seriously irked by both of the
> misuses you identify above. Keep fighting the good fight.

Alas, it is a losing battle.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'The view that Zionism is Nazism is not different
in kind from the view that the moon is cheese...'
(Leon Wieseltier, _New Republic_ Literary Editor)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Incubus
2018-07-12 08:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
> question'.
>
> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
> insisted that he was correct.

A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.

I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
being asking 'Can I get...'
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 08:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>> the question'.
>>
>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>> used non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>> and then insisted that he was correct.

> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in
> Ireland.
>
> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade
> of being asking 'Can I get...'

My wife uses that form in English-speaking restaurants. 'Can I please
get..?' and I just frown and mutter, 'Yes you fucking _may_. ..' which
usually earns me a kick under the table.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Television has made dictatorship impossible, but democracy unbearable'
(Shimon Perez (1923 - ))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
#BeamMeUpScotty
2018-07-12 10:27:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 07/12/2018 04:53 AM, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein wrote:
> Incubus <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>>> the question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>>> used non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>>> and then insisted that he was correct.
>
>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in
>> Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade
>> of being asking 'Can I get...'
>
> My wife uses that form in English-speaking restaurants. 'Can I please
> get..?' and I just frown and mutter, 'Yes you fucking _may_. ..' which
> usually earns me a kick under the table.
>
> Y.
>
Colloquialism is what makes a language interesting, to hear SOutherners
and then someone from the Bronx or "Bastan" speak is the what makes me
want to visit a place or NOT, I always liked that Southern Belle accent
and the colloquialisms from Georgia Peaches, don't you "Sugar Love".

--
That's Karma


https://bigleaguepolitics.com/ig-report-fbi-secret-service-planned-lynch-clinton-tarmac-meeting/
Byker
2018-07-12 16:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein" wrote in message
news:5ihj1f-***@server.com.il...
>
> My wife uses that form in English-speaking restaurants. 'Can I please
> get..?' and I just frown and mutter, 'Yes you fucking _may_. ..' which
> usually earns me a kick under the table.

Teachers in school used to say, "You CAN but you MAY not!"
JNugent
2018-07-12 10:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 09:51, Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>
>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>> question'.
>>
>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>> insisted that he was correct.
>
> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>
> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
> being asking 'Can I get...'

Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.

Somewhat to my discomport, I consequently find myself asking "Can I
get..." because I know it will be easily understood there.

But in London, asked in a plainly local accent, it is quite a different
matter.
Incubus
2018-07-12 10:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-12, JNugent <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 09:51, Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>> question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>
>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>
> Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.
>
> Somewhat to my discomport, I consequently find myself asking "Can I
> get..." because I know it will be easily understood there.

I refuse to change how I speak and ask the question again in another manner
that is acceptable to me. Some of them couldn't even understand what I meant
by 'tomato' or 'bottle'.

> But in London, asked in a plainly local accent, it is quite a different
> matter.

They probably voted Remain.
JNugent
2018-07-12 10:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 11:38, Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-12, JNugent <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2018 09:51, Incubus wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>>> question'.
>>>>
>>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>>
>>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>>
>>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>
>> Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.
>>
>> Somewhat to my discomport, I consequently find myself asking "Can I
>> get..." because I know it will be easily understood there.
>
> I refuse to change how I speak and ask the question again in another manner
> that is acceptable to me. Some of them couldn't even understand what I meant
> by 'tomato' or 'bottle'.

America or the UK?

>> But in London, asked in a plainly local accent, it is quite a different
>> matter.
>
> They probably voted Remain.

Very trendy, for sure.
Incubus
2018-07-12 10:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-12, JNugent <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 11:38, Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-12, JNugent <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2018 09:51, Incubus wrote:
>>>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>>>
>>>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>>>> question'.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>>>
>>>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>>>
>>>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>>>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>>
>>> Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.
>>>
>>> Somewhat to my discomport, I consequently find myself asking "Can I
>>> get..." because I know it will be easily understood there.
>>
>> I refuse to change how I speak and ask the question again in another manner
>> that is acceptable to me. Some of them couldn't even understand what I meant
>> by 'tomato' or 'bottle'.
>
> America or the UK?

The US. Having said that, even a number of British people are now unable to
understand anything other than their urban patois.
Byker
2018-07-12 16:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Incubus" wrote in message news:pi7cbb$p8$***@dont-email.me...
>
> The US. Having said that, even a number of British people are now unable
> to understand anything other than their urban patois.

I wonder how many Swedes are offended by being confused with rutabagas...
Byker
2018-07-12 16:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"JNugent" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
>
> America or the UK?

Ask someone for a "torch" on this side of the pond and you're liable to be
handed a blazing pine knot...
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-12 16:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:34:59 -0500, "Kyker" <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>"JNugent" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> America or the UK?
>
>Ask someone for a "torch" on this side of the pond and you're liable to be
>handed a blazing pine knot...

To set fire to a cross with!
--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-12 17:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 09:57:29 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:


>>> America or the UK?
>>
>>Ask someone for a "torch" on this side of the pond and you're liable to be
>>handed a blazing pine knot...
>
> To set fire to a cross with!

Trying to be "funny", psychopath? Psychopathically "funny"? <BG>

--
Retarded, anal, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident
psychopath, dumb serbian bitch G. Razovic (aka "The Rectum").
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-07-12 13:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:24:05 +0100, JNugent <***@fastmail.fm>
wrote:

>On 12/07/2018 09:51, Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>> question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>
>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>
>Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.

"Gimme' is far more common.
--

"You are full of shit. You'll never convince any of us real Jews that
there is no Jewish look. I know my people and I can see their
Jewishness. Susan is not a Jew. If you want to get down her panties
just ask her she'll let you. She's a non-Jew."
Message-ID: <bfbdb526-1042-4e8e-a39f-***@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

"You can try all you want and get all the plastic surgery you want but
you'll never look like one of us because you are not a Jew. You are
an Irish Shiksa that Isn't even a righteous non-Jew a Ger Tzadeck You
are VEEDMUS amongst us and are a gentile. I would not be surprised if
you ever go to Eretz Israel and spout off your non-senseical lies that
a Jew doesn't kill you or a gentile murder you. You are wicked because
you antagonize and lie about the Tzadeckim. The best place for you is
scrubbing toilets and urinals in a gymnasium that is predominate used
by Negros."
Message-ID: <ee17d097-89f7-4e72-a41a-***@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

- drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish, mocking neo-jew Suzy KKKohen's
attempted 'conversion' to the jew race

"Warren is not well. He's a non-Jewish mental patient who usually declines to
take his medications. Please keep this in mind when viewing future posts."
Message-ID: <JZQTk.1726$***@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

- neo-jew 'convert' Suzy KKKohen, mocking drug-fucked jew wannabe Y-chi Netfish's
claim to be a jew
The Peeler
2018-07-12 17:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 06:18:45 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:


>>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>>
>>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>
>>Using the form "May I have..." in the USA often returns a blank expression.
>
> "Gimme' is far more common.

"Fuck you" is the expression YOU keep hearing most, dreckserb!

--
Anal Razovic's motto:
"An enema for every constipated anus."
MID: <***@4ax.com>
Dan S. MacAbre
2018-07-12 10:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>
>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>> question'.
>>
>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>> insisted that he was correct.
>
> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>
> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
> being asking 'Can I get...'
>

Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
asking how someone is? I'm just about the only person I know now who
doesn't say it, and I'm starting to wonder if I should just 'move with
the times'.
JNugent
2018-07-12 10:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 12/07/2018 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
> Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of
>>> 'raises the
>>> question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>>> used
>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>>> and then
>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>
>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in
>> Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless
>> parade of
>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>
>
> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
> asking how someone is? I'm just about the only person I know now who
> doesn't say it, and I'm starting to wonder if I should just 'move with
> the times'.

I certainly don't say it.

As a response to the question asked, it isn't even a valid answer.
Dan S. MacAbre
2018-07-12 11:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
JNugent wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
>> Incubus wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of
>>>> 'raises the
>>>> question'.
>>>>
>>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>>>> used
>>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>>>> and then
>>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>>
>>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in
>>> Ireland.
>>>
>>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless
>>> parade of
>>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>>
>>
>> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
>> asking how someone is?  I'm just about the only person I know now who
>> doesn't say it, and I'm starting to wonder if I should just 'move with
>> the times'.
>
> I certainly don't say it.
>
> As a response to the question asked, it isn't even a valid answer.

Even though I hear it several times a day, it never fails to throw me
off balance a bit. I have to mentally join the dots between the answer
and the question. Probably overthinking it, I suppose.
Incubus
2018-07-12 10:57:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-12, Dan S. MacAbre <***@way.com> wrote:
> Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>
>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>> question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>
>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>
>
> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
> asking how someone is? I'm just about the only person I know now who
> doesn't say it, and I'm starting to wonder if I should just 'move with
> the times'.

You must foresweare such knaverie as wolde murther our faire tongue.
Dan S. MacAbre
2018-07-12 11:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Incubus wrote:
> On 2018-07-12, Dan S. MacAbre <***@way.com> wrote:
>> Incubus wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises the
>>>> question'.
>>>>
>>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when used
>>>> non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you') and then
>>>> insisted that he was correct.
>>>
>>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in Ireland.
>>>
>>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade of
>>> being asking 'Can I get...'
>>>
>>
>> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
>> asking how someone is? I'm just about the only person I know now who
>> doesn't say it, and I'm starting to wonder if I should just 'move with
>> the times'.
>
> You must foresweare such knaverie as wolde murther our faire tongue.
>

Well, quite!
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-12 11:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Dan S. MacAbre <***@way.com> wrote:
> Incubus wrote:
>> On 2018-07-11, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein <***@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Byker <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>>>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question:

>>> No it doesn't, because 'begs the question' is not a synonym of 'raises
>>> the question'.
>>>
>>> I'd probably have let that slide except for the e-mail argument with a
>>> friend this morning who used 'myself' as a replacement for 'me' when
>>> used non-reflexively (as in 'e-mails exchanged between myself and you')
>>> and then insisted that he was correct.

>> A number of people seem to use it as a polite form, particularly in
>> Ireland.
>>
>> I can no longer visit Puccinos in the morning due to the endless parade
>> of being asking 'Can I get...'

> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after
> asking how someone is?

Yeah, pretty much.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how
it comes out'
(Bill Hicks)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Byker
2018-07-12 16:34:05 UTC
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"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message news:pi7afq$m1u$***@dont-email.me...
>
> Is anyone else slightly irked by the the response "I'm good", after asking
> how someone is?

Following with "Good for what?" usually breaks them of that habit...
MM
2018-07-12 09:31:14 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:44:34 -0500, "Byker" <***@do~rag.net> wrote:

>With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
>seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What happened?

Most stuff we want isn't made in Britain today. It's made in China,
the Far East or non-UK Europe.

MM
Norman Wells
2018-07-12 11:53:44 UTC
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On 12/07/2018 10:31, MM wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:44:34 -0500, "Byker" <***@do~rag.net> wrote:
>
>> With all this whining about tariffs, it begs the question: Seems I remember
>> seeing prewar Pathé newsreels urging people to "buy British". What happened?
>
> Most stuff we want isn't made in Britain today. It's made in China,
> the Far East or non-UK Europe.

That's why it's much cheaper.
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