Post by Byker Post by abelard Post by Vidcapper
You seem to believe that whenever any left-wing government is elected,
that country is on an inevitable slippery slope towards communism, yet
you ignore all 'inconvenient' counter-examples.
no i don't...i watch sweden...i watch venezuela...
Scandinavian countries are not good examples of democratic socialism in
action because they're NOT socialist. Like all other developed nations, the
means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the
community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective
uses by the market, not government or community planning. While it is true
that they provide things like a generous social safety net and universal
healthcare, an extensive welfare state is not the same thing as socialism.
What Bernie Sanders and his supporters confuse as socialism is actually
social DEMOCRACY, a system in which the government aims to promote the
public welfare through heavy taxation and spending, within the framework of
a capitalist economy. This is what the Scandinavians practice.
You are essentially correct ... we're not seeing much in
the way of a bona-fide state-run economy in those countries.
However the State DOES try to do a little "management" ...
but then all do. The "socialism" lies in the "nanny state"
aspect. A huge amount of taxes go to support it and the
State has full control.
But, even those countries are now having difficulties being
nannies. Foreign competitors have cut into their profits as
well ... and what citizens EXPECT from their nanny has
gone up. Now there's not enough money and it'd be too
destructive to raise taxes any more. Finland has cut
back on 'social services' already, Sweden and Norway
are gonna have to very soon. Even further south the
French nanny-state is struggling and the UK health
system is basically running on empty. Only the Germans
seem to do things pretty much right - but that's what
they pride themselves on.
Money taken in by the State as taxes is "dead money" ...
ie it's not out there making MORE money in the way it
would if it remained in the pockets of businesses and
citizens ... just becomes an account you write the
welfare checks on.
The economics of nanny states is, well, kinda tricky.
The biggest mistake HERE has been the "pot of
gold" problem. Write "Health Care" on the pot and
put 100 gold coins in there and the various providers
WILL find ways to make sure there isn't a single
coin left at the end of the year. Put 200 coins in there
the next year and, surprise, the pot will be empty
again. The various providers WILL raise their prices
in accordance with how many coins are in the pot
this year - they plan to get it ALL. Doesn't matter if
the price of THEM making a pill hasn't changed,
they'll charge double, triple, whatever so long as
they can use up every coin. "What the market will
bear" is an old phrase which is still apt.
Trump seems aware of this scam - this de-facto theft.
He's already put the bulls-eye on a few really prominent
cases of drug-price ripoffs, but in truth THIS issue will
be the #1 challenge of writing any new national health
law - as it's been the #1 failure with OCare.
"Greed control" is very DIFFICULT in a 'capitalist'-style
economy, hard to tell manufacturers/providers what
they're gonna charge for "X". "Competition" can help
a bit, but all in all industry prices tend to be pretty close
to each other. The theory of biz here is "Make as much
as you possibly can".
The Nordics and Germans ... business seems to practice
a little more self-control. They don't want to be branded as
price-gougers, they don't want to bankrupt the State
services system. It's a minor difference in biz philosophy
that winds up making a lot of difference downstream. It
is not particularly State-imposed either ... it's how they
think over there.
When they were creating OCare I said that Americans
couldn't create a good govt-health system - we didn't
think the right way. I said it'd cause uncontrollable
price gouging, I said it'd be leveraged to serve the
purposes of social crusaders and govt micromanagers
of every stripe. This is how Americans think and it's
why OCare couldn't survive. Read up on how badly
even Medicare is abused, why it consumes SO much
money even WITH attempts at controlling greed.
It's a problem.
Americans are not Swedes. Americans are not
Germans. We CAN'T copy their systems because
we don't think like they do.
I think all hospitals, all doctors offices, all pharmas,
everything and everyone "medical" would have to be
literally owned and operated by and for the govt in
order to control prices and access. Yer doc would
be a civil servant, the factory cooking yer blood
pressure pill would be owned & run by the govt.
It's the ONLY good way to control greed here, at
least in terms of medical offerings.
Well, there's one other way ... NO Medicare, NO
OCare, make health-insurance illegal ... in short
take away the pot of gold entirely. Alas that'd have
some pretty harsh consequences, VERY harsh.
No 'democratic' govt could survive it.