Discussion:
PPL and PRS are Cheating Shops with Bullying, Lies and Extortion.
(too old to reply)
Turk182
2012-04-22 20:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I was in a cafe today. They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL. PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.

Let's be clear, in spite of PPL attempting to groom us into thinking
that we need a licence to play recorded music, you don't. However you
will need a licence to play music of artists and record companies who
have signed up to PPL - but that is not everybody.

Many local singers, musicians and bands record their own music and
rely on any exposure they can get in order to build up their
reputation. They may never have commercially released a track through
the shops, and even if they have, they may NEVER have entered into any
relationship with PPL.

It was Independent Record day this week. And thousands of records
have been given away or sold through independent record stores - many
of the releases are nothing to do with PPL.

Yet on their website, PPL say:

"Why do I need a licence?

In order to play recorded music in public, legal permission is needed
from the copyright holders. A music licence gives you this
permission."

http://www.ppluk.com/I-Play-Music/Businesses/

LIARS! By clever omission and crafty wording - it is implied that we
need a licence from them.

Even if a shop does purchase a licence from PPL, it has no right to
give a shop permission to play a track from an artist's CD, who is not
registered with PPL!

PPL are attempting fraud by occasionally implying that they represent
ALL recorded music (until you look deeper into the wording).

Music, strangely enough, can be made by anyone, and recorded by anyone
and PPL, PRS and the rest of the greedy control freaks in the music
industry have no right to claim 'ownership' of any kind over music
rights - unless they have been requested to'.

But it gets worse! Look at this on the PPL website:

"PPL and PRS for Music are two separate independent companies and in
most instances a licence is required from both organisations for you
to legally play recorded music in public. While we both licence the
use of music and collect royalties for the music industry, we
represent different rights holders and have separate licences, terms
and conditions.

PPL collects and distributes money for the use of recorded music on
behalf of record companies and performers. PRS for Music collects and
distributes money for the use of the musical composition and lyrics on
behalf of authors, songwriters, composers and publishers."

So shop owners have, not ONE .... but TWO companies chasing them for
licence money, simply to play a CD or listen to Radio 4 (yes Radio 4!)
in their shops.

And in the cases of both PPL and PRS, they are bullying shops into
thinking that they need a licence from each of them, to play ANY music
in stores!

The British music industry is one of the greediest in the world.
Their mafia tactics go back along way and include the rigging of the
music surveys, the bogus purchase of their own songs to hype them into
the charts, the bribing of radio and TV producers, collusion and
payments with Independent radio groups to play certain song, the
payment of gambling and other costs for radio executives and the
ruthless extortion of money from shops, offices, garages, coaches
companies, bus owners etc.

This scandal has been going on for years but the crooks behind these
fraud attempts are stepping up the pressure to extort money!

If you are a self-employed person working from home, and you pay your
wife to help you, you will need a licence from these crooks to listen
to Radio 4!

(They told a garage recently, that he needed a licence from them to be
able to listen to Radio 4, because Radio 4 play tunes into and out of
some shows!)

If you whistle in the street - beware - they will be sending you a
bill soon! And be careful, as they will soon by claiming rights over
fresh air (if the wind howls to the notes of a known tune).

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=208005

http://www.lesplayer.com/blog/?p=380

PPL tried to fleece £199 from this man:

http://www.diyweek.net/news/news.asp?id=15084

Turk182
DVH
2012-04-22 22:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Turk182
I was in a cafe today. They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL. PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
A lot of our economy is rent-seeking nowadays.

TB once mentioned he had a call from performing rights and correctly told
them to bugger off.
True Blue
2012-04-23 12:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by DVH
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
A lot of our economy is rent-seeking nowadays.
TB once mentioned he had a call from performing rights and correctly told
them to bugger off.
The first time they called, they caught me off guard. But nowadays I
make good sport of the occasion. Never heard of PPL, though - it's
always PRS who ring.
Mel Rowing
2012-04-23 08:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
Then call their bluff but should you end up in court as the result of
breach of copyright this argument will carry no weight.

Whilst it is true that the producers of some work do not protect it in
this way, but the onus is on you to make sure that when you broadcast
it it comes within this catagory. I don't beleive such work is
labelled copyright free but might be wrong on that point. Coprighted
work is certainly labelled as such and so there is no excuse.

There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast. When you buy a CD, DVD
etc. it's perfectly clear and is clearly stated that it is sold on
condition that it is for private use only
DVH
2012-04-23 08:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mel Rowing
There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast.
Or at least, outsource that task to the collection agencies.

Some of their activities appear to be unwarranted rent-seeking.

eg, playing the radio at work, playing music down the telephone line. Some
retail chains pay half a million quid for a PRS licence.
Turk182
2012-04-23 09:31:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mel Rowing
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
Then call their bluff but should you end up in court as the result of
breach of copyright this argument will carry no weight.
Whilst it is true that the producers of some work do not protect it in
this way, but the onus is on you to make sure that when you broadcast
it it comes within this catagory. I don't beleive such work is
labelled copyright free but might be wrong on that point. Coprighted
work is certainly labelled as such and so there is no excuse.
There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast. When you buy a CD, DVD
etc. it's perfectly clear and is clearly stated that it is sold on
condition that it is for private use only
The sticker from PPL displayed at the shop premises, where they claim
that the shop is "licenced to play recorded music" is wrong. He can
only be licensed to play 'selected' recorded music - and if he
arranges with his son and their friends to record some self-penned
tunes and broadcast them on CD in his stores, he does not need any
licence of any form, as the law does not require that you do this -
any more than the law requires licences if the owner of the shop
decides to record and play his own music, the music of his customers
or even the CUKLMVC (Contrubutors of Uk,Legal Male Voice Choir)
performing their own songs.

PPL have no right to claim on their sticker that they are the liceners
of all recorded music. Recording music and playing it is, so far,
free from state and commercial interference. I can understand, why
they and the music industry in general, just as wiuth 'the downloading
oif music' - would like to groom the authorities and the public into
thinking that they will always hold the copyright for downloaded music
- but they don't. I hold the rights to my own music which I allow
people to download and use as they wish. PPL seem to want to be paid
for my work without passing on the money to me - they have no right to
do this. I do not want them to represent me at this time - or to
claim that they do!

Imagine if this were to happen with pictures. Suppose you went into a
shop and there was a sign which said "this shop is licensed to display
pictures". This would imply to people (including other shop-keepers
visiting) that ONE organisation holds the right to all pictures and
that a licence for this purpose must be purcxhased from them.
However, a licence may be requiired from EACH of the copyright owners
involved, but to claim that a licence is needed per-se is misleading -
as you may well have taken the photo yourself!

Turk182
abelard
2012-04-23 10:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 01:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
Post by Mel Rowing
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
Then call their bluff but should you end up in court as the result of
breach of copyright this argument will carry no weight.
Whilst it is true that the producers of some work do not protect it in
i think you have copyright by the very act of writing a piece...
Post by Mel Rowing
this way, but the onus is on you to make sure that when you broadcast
it it comes within this catagory. I don't beleive such work is
labelled copyright free but might be wrong on that point. Coprighted
work is certainly labelled as such and so there is no excuse.
There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast. When you buy a CD, DVD
etc. it's perfectly clear and is clearly stated that it is sold on
condition that it is for private use only
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sutartsorric
2012-04-23 11:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 01:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
Post by Mel Rowing
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
Then call their bluff but should you end up in court as the result of
breach of copyright this argument will carry no weight.
Whilst it is true that the producers of some work do not protect it in
i think you have copyright by the very act of writing a piece...
Post by Mel Rowing
this way, but the onus is on you to make sure that when you broadcast
it it comes within this catagory. I don't beleive such work is
labelled copyright free but might be wrong on that point. Coprighted
work is certainly labelled as such and so there is no excuse.
There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast. When you buy a CD, DVD
etc. it's perfectly clear and is clearly stated that it is sold on
condition that it is for private use only
--
web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that    []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing      []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Most 'music' produced these days is not fit for playing in public -
copyright or no.
abelard
2012-04-23 11:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 04:06:39 -0700 (PDT), sutartsorric
Post by sutartsorric
Post by abelard
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 01:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
Post by Mel Rowing
I was in a cafe today.  They had a prominent sticker attached to the
till which said, "This Shop Is Licensed To Play Recorded Music" - the
creator of the sticker was shown as PPL.  PPL are deliberately
misleading us all.
Then call their bluff but should you end up in court as the result of
breach of copyright this argument will carry no weight.
Whilst it is true that the producers of some work do not protect it in
i think you have copyright by the very act of writing a piece...
Post by Mel Rowing
this way, but the onus is on you to make sure that when you broadcast
it it comes within this catagory. I don't beleive such work is
labelled copyright free but might be wrong on that point. Coprighted
work is certainly labelled as such and so there is no excuse.
There is not the slightest doubt that the holders of a copyright have
every right to levy a charge for its broadcast. When you buy a CD, DVD
etc. it's perfectly clear and is clearly stated that it is sold on
condition that it is for private use only
Most 'music' produced these days is not fit for playing in public -
copyright or no.
you'll get no argument from me on that score
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
b***@googlemail.com
2018-01-09 18:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
My barber shop has a tv in the staff area prs(Ss) have said because my staff can watch tv they want £47+ vat a year I have no amplified music in the shop because up to 4 people can watch it I was cold called by there scammers and threatened with legal action is this right? I think it’s atrocious that small businesses are being scammed and bullied into giving money for nothing paying to watch advertisements they are sending an invoice should I have to pay it?. Please contact me on ***@googlemail .com
Graham T
2018-01-09 23:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
No, tv programmes are made for free. Don't pay your grocery bills
either. Why should you?
tim...
2018-01-10 16:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@googlemail.com
My barber shop has a tv in the staff area prs(Ss) have said because my
staff can watch tv they want £47+ vat a year I have no amplified music in
the shop because up to 4 people can watch it I was cold called by there
scammers and threatened with legal action is this right? I think it’s
atrocious that small businesses are being scammed and bullied into giving
money for nothing paying to watch advertisements they are sending an
invoice should I have to pay it?. Please contact me on
No, tv programmes are made for free. Don't pay your grocery bills either.
Why should you?
TV programs are paid for by buying a TV license.

PRS are asking for an additional amount on the grounds that the pictures are
"re-broadcast" by the shop owner

tim
Graham T
2018-01-10 17:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Graham T
Post by b***@googlemail.com
My barber shop has a tv in the staff area prs(Ss) have said because
my staff can watch tv they want £47+ vat a year I have no amplified
music in the shop because up to 4 people can watch it I was cold
called by there scammers and threatened with legal action is this
right? I think it’s atrocious that small businesses are being scammed
and bullied into giving money for nothing paying to watch
advertisements they are sending an invoice should I have to pay it?.
No, tv programmes are made for free. Don't pay your grocery bills
either. Why should you?
TV programs are paid for by buying a TV license.
PRS are asking for an additional amount on the grounds that the pictures
are "re-broadcast" by the shop owner
tim
They are using the tv programmes to draw in customers. Why shouldn't
they pay for it along with shampoo, combs brushes etc?

Loading...