Discussion:
Let us hope that the government will be defeated today in the House of Lords
(too old to reply)
MM
2017-03-01 10:47:07 UTC
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Raw Message
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.

The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.

MM
Davey
2017-03-01 11:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?

It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Mike Swift
2017-03-01 11:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <o96ahs$cnv$***@dont-email.me>, Davey <***@example.invalid>
writes
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen currently
living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find themselves unable to
stay in their current EU country of residence?
This whole farce seems to me to be a Red Herring, what happened before
we joined the EU or Common Market as it was then?

My next door neighbour is French she came to Britain before we joined,
she taught at a British school and married a British subject and is now
retired after contributing to our tax and pension system, she has never
taken out British citizenship.

I would hope that she is allowed to stay along with the many tens of
thousands of EU citizens who have settled here both before and after we
joined, the ones we want to be rid of are the European parasites living
off our taxes and breaking our laws, if they are gainfully employed I
have no problem with them staying and contributing, much as they did pre
EU.

Mike
--
Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
Yorkshire Halvard Lange
Jethro_uk
2017-03-01 12:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Swift
writes
Post by Davey
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
This whole farce seems to me to be a Red Herring, what happened before
we joined the EU or Common Market as it was then?
My next door neighbour is French she came to Britain before we joined,
she taught at a British school and married a British subject and is now
retired after contributing to our tax and pension system, she has never
taken out British citizenship.
I would hope that she is allowed to stay along with the many tens of
thousands of EU citizens who have settled here both before and after we
joined, the ones we want to be rid of are the European parasites living
off our taxes and breaking our laws, if they are gainfully employed I
have no problem with them staying and contributing, much as they did pre
EU.
Mike
My father (not French, but from an "EU original") is - 54 years after
coming here, getting a job, buying a house, starting a business,
employing several (UK) people and putting all 3 sons through University -
is in the same boat. Oh, and left crippled in a bank raid he managed to
interrupt long enough for the police to catch the robbers who got 14
years for it.

Hence why I won't "get over it".
Handsome Jack
2017-03-01 12:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jethro_uk
My father (not French, but from an "EU original") is - 54 years after
coming here, getting a job, buying a house, starting a business,
employing several (UK) people and putting all 3 sons through University -
is in the same boat. Oh, and left crippled in a bank raid he managed to
interrupt long enough for the police to catch the robbers who got 14
years for it.
Hence why I won't "get over it".
Did he not apply for indefinite leave to remain in the ten years between
1962 and 1972? He still can, BTW.
--
Jack
Jethro_uk
2017-03-01 14:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Jethro_uk
My father (not French, but from an "EU original") is - 54 years after
coming here, getting a job, buying a house, starting a business,
employing several (UK) people and putting all 3 sons through University -
is in the same boat. Oh, and left crippled in a bank raid he managed to
interrupt long enough for the police to catch the robbers who got 14
years for it.
Hence why I won't "get over it".
Did he not apply for indefinite leave to remain in the ten years between
1962 and 1972? He still can, BTW.
AFAIAA there was no need, as he was married to my Mum (and still is).
Handsome Jack
2017-03-01 16:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Jethro_uk
My father (not French, but from an "EU original") is - 54 years after
coming here, getting a job, buying a house, starting a business,
employing several (UK) people and putting all 3 sons through University -
is in the same boat. Oh, and left crippled in a bank raid he managed to
interrupt long enough for the police to catch the robbers who got 14
years for it.
Hence why I won't "get over it".
Did he not apply for indefinite leave to remain in the ten years between
1962 and 1972? He still can, BTW.
AFAIAA there was no need, as he was married to my Mum (and still is).
So what exactly is the problem that you can't get over??
--
Jack
MM
2017-03-01 22:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-01 22:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.

The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Fredxxx
2017-03-01 23:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
MM will claim otherwise and think that any agreement should be
unilateral to the EU's advantage.

He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.

He's resents everything British.
MM
2017-03-02 10:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
MM will claim otherwise and think that any agreement should be
unilateral to the EU's advantage.
Correction: I do not think that.
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Post by Fredxxx
He's resents everything British.
Correction: I do not resent everything British. Why would I resent
Scots, Northern Irish and most Londoners for voting to remain?

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-02 22:02:37 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Thank you for the confirmation.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
MM
2017-03-03 07:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Thank you for the confirmation.
Typo: missing "not"

As you well know.

MM
Altroy1
2017-03-03 12:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Thank you for the confirmation.
Typo: missing "not"
As you well know.
Obviously a typo as "old codger" knew fine well.
Post by MM
MM
MM
2017-03-03 17:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Thank you for the confirmation.
Typo: missing "not"
As you well know.
Obviously a typo as "old codger" knew fine well.
Brexiters will grab at any straw.

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-03 22:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Thank you for the confirmation.
Typo: missing "not"
As you well know.
Indeed I did but what you wrote is in keeping with the impression that
your posts give.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Fredxxx
2017-03-02 22:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
MM will claim otherwise and think that any agreement should be
unilateral to the EU's advantage.
Correction: I do not think that.
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
MM
2017-03-03 07:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.

MM
Fredxxx
2017-03-03 14:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.

I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
MM
2017-03-03 17:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-03 22:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!
Tough! That is the democratic decision of the electorate and Teresa,
who voted to remain in the EU, will implement it as fast as she can. As
a result the UK will once again become self governing instead of being
subordinate to Brussels.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Vidcapper
2017-03-04 07:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!
You can reject the law of gravity too, but that doesn't mean you won't
still be bound by it.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Ian Jackson
2017-03-04 08:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!
You can reject the law of gravity too, but that doesn't mean you won't
still be bound by it.
No one 'rejects' the law of gravity, but it's wise not to expose
yourself unnecessarily to the obvious dangers of it (such as an
enthusiastic leap-in-the-dark off a Brexit cliff).
--
Ian
Vidcapper
2017-03-04 17:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!
You can reject the law of gravity too, but that doesn't mean you won't
still be bound by it.
No one 'rejects' the law of gravity, but it's wise not to expose
yourself unnecessarily to the obvious dangers of it (such as an
enthusiastic leap-in-the-dark off a Brexit cliff).
But the point is, more than half of those who voted on 23/6 considered
the EU so flawed that even a leap into the dark would be preferable...
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Yellow
2017-03-04 21:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
I therefore assume that you have a German passport.
Sorry, no. There was a typo in the above. I meant to type "not", but
didn't. Get over it.
I'm sure Freud would conclude there was no mistake.
I'm over it, but you seem to have trouble accepting Brexit.
Trouble? I fundamentally reject Brexit!
You can reject the law of gravity too, but that doesn't mean you won't
still be bound by it.
No one 'rejects' the law of gravity,
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/589863-9-scientists-who-dispute-the-
theory-of-gravity/full/

or shorter

http://tinyurl.com/gs6l5fs
Post by Ian Jackson
but it's wise not to expose
yourself unnecessarily to the obvious dangers of it (such as an
enthusiastic leap-in-the-dark off a Brexit cliff).
Vidcapper
2017-03-03 07:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Hang on - aren't *you* a UK citizen living elsewhere in the EU?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
MM
2017-03-03 07:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Hang on - aren't *you* a UK citizen living elsewhere in the EU?
Amazing how one obvious (from the context) typo can get all Brexiters
going! Pavlov must have been busy with his doggies.

MM
Fredxxx
2017-03-03 14:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Hang on - aren't *you* a UK citizen living elsewhere in the EU?
Amazing how one obvious (from the context) typo can get all Brexiters
going! Pavlov must have been busy with his doggies.
When you start correcting the correction, it's time to consider your
lifestyle so not to lose any more neural capacity.

Perhaps you can start by stopping to blame Brexiters for your own mistakes.
MM
2017-03-03 17:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Hang on - aren't *you* a UK citizen living elsewhere in the EU?
Amazing how one obvious (from the context) typo can get all Brexiters
going! Pavlov must have been busy with his doggies.
When you start correcting the correction, it's time to consider your
lifestyle so not to lose any more neural capacity.
Perhaps you can start by stopping to blame Brexiters for your own mistakes.
Start by stopping... interesting conundrum.

MM
Vidcapper
2017-03-04 07:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Fredxxx
He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.
Correction: I do believe that.
Hang on - aren't *you* a UK citizen living elsewhere in the EU?
Amazing how one obvious (from the context) typo can get all Brexiters
going! Pavlov must have been busy with his doggies.
When you start correcting the correction, it's time to consider your
lifestyle so not to lose any more neural capacity.
Perhaps you can start by stopping to blame Brexiters for your own mistakes.
Start by stopping... interesting conundrum.
Changing the subject doesn't win you the debate.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Ophelia
2017-03-02 12:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
MM will claim otherwise and think that any agreement should be
unilateral to the EU's advantage.

He believes the rights of EU citizens living in the UK trumps UK
citizens living in the rest of the EU.

He's resents everything British.

====

He proves that on a daily basis. He should bugger off back to Germany and I
think he would if he wasn't dependent on benefits and our Health Service

He is a traitor.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
MM
2017-03-02 10:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No, the EU is only doing what it has been saying since the referendum:
No negotiation before notification.

MM
Yellow
2017-03-02 14:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
MM
2017-03-02 18:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-02 22:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.
Not at all. We had a democratic vote which, despite all the politicking
and expectations, concluded that the UK should leave the EU. It is
those who are trying to overturn that decision who are "sodding the people".
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
MM
2017-03-03 07:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.
Not at all. We had a democratic vote which, despite all the politicking
and expectations, concluded that the UK should leave the EU. It is
those who are trying to overturn that decision who are "sodding the people".
You couldn't care less about the 16+ million, could you?

MM
Fredxxx
2017-03-03 14:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.
Not at all. We had a democratic vote which, despite all the politicking
and expectations, concluded that the UK should leave the EU. It is
those who are trying to overturn that decision who are "sodding the people".
You couldn't care less about the 16+ million, could you?
Anyone wishing to leave the UK is free to do so. I care very much and
would consider assisting them in their move if that is what they wished.

Brexiters just want their country back. Perhaps you should care equally
about us.
MM
2017-03-03 17:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.
Not at all. We had a democratic vote which, despite all the politicking
and expectations, concluded that the UK should leave the EU. It is
those who are trying to overturn that decision who are "sodding the people".
You couldn't care less about the 16+ million, could you?
Anyone wishing to leave the UK is free to do so. I care very much and
would consider assisting them in their move if that is what they wished.
Brexiters just want their country back. Perhaps you should care equally
about us.
But you wouldn't have a country left if the 16+ million emigrated. Oh,
how fun it would be to see Brexiters trying to arrange bin
collections, schooling, health care, policing and so on. Well, to be
fair, policing would probably be quite easy for them as they'd just
shoot anyone dead who offered resistance or dissent.

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-03 22:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Yes - and sod the people. We understand.
Ooh, that's rich! Coming from a Brexiter! Sod the people, eh! That's
what you and your bezzie mates did on June 23.
Not at all. We had a democratic vote which, despite all the politicking
and expectations, concluded that the UK should leave the EU. It is
those who are trying to overturn that decision who are "sodding the people".
You couldn't care less about the 16+ million, could you?
Is that your opinion of those who support the winners of every election
that has a result that you don't like?

You obviously couldn't care less about the even greater number of people
who voted to leave the EU.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Vidcapper
2017-03-04 08:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
You obviously couldn't care less about the even greater number of people
who voted to leave the EU.
Whatever the margin of the referendum result had been, I suspect MM
would have resisted it just as strongly - and if so, that would negate
any argument based on the size of the margin.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Old Codger
2017-03-02 22:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
So you are quite happy for Teresa to have our negotiating position
hamstrung?
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Agreed, which is why we should not be negotiating either.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
MM
2017-03-03 07:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
So you are quite happy for Teresa to have our negotiating position
hamstrung?
Yes, if it means using human beings as human shields. Is your name
"Saddam", by any chance?
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Agreed, which is why we should not be negotiating either.
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency. Then we
don't have to negotiate anything until we have triggered Article 50.

MM
Fredxxx
2017-03-03 14:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
So you are quite happy for Teresa to have our negotiating position
hamstrung?
Yes, if it means using human beings as human shields. Is your name
"Saddam", by any chance?
Are you suggesting these EU citizens are going to get shot and killed by
other EU countries?

The Middle East would now be a lot more stable if we simply left Saddam
in power. No Iraqi refugees for one.
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Agreed, which is why we should not be negotiating either.
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency. Then we
don't have to negotiate anything until we have triggered Article 50.
I would be happy for that declaration be dependent on the EU making the
same declaration for UK citizens living in the rest of the EU.

You seem happy for the EU to use UK citizens as your "human shields".

Your vitriol towards the British, and they way you are happy for UK
citizens are treated in the wake of Brexit suggests you don't belong in
the UK. Anyone can see you're just here to use the health services that
are not so easily accessible in Germany.
MM
2017-03-03 17:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
So you are quite happy for Teresa to have our negotiating position
hamstrung?
Yes, if it means using human beings as human shields. Is your name
"Saddam", by any chance?
Are you suggesting these EU citizens are going to get shot and killed by
other EU countries?
It MAY WELL HAPPEN if Brexiters are anywhere near the negotiating
table. Anything to get their way, eh.
Post by Fredxxx
The Middle East would now be a lot more stable if we simply left Saddam
in power. No Iraqi refugees for one.
The Americans wanted revenge. Yes, I know it was stupid, but now
they've elected Donald Trump.
Post by Fredxxx
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Agreed, which is why we should not be negotiating either.
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency. Then we
don't have to negotiate anything until we have triggered Article 50.
I would be happy for that declaration be dependent on the EU making the
same declaration for UK citizens living in the rest of the EU.
You seem happy for the EU to use UK citizens as your "human shields".
It's not a case of "seeming" anything, as we have no control over what
the EU decides. It's called "taking back control", which is what you
Brexiters all wanted, isn't it?
Post by Fredxxx
Your vitriol towards the British, and they way you are happy for UK
citizens are treated in the wake of Brexit suggests you don't belong in
the UK. Anyone can see you're just here to use the health services that
are not so easily accessible in Germany.
When I lived and worked in Germany the health services were *more*
accessibly than the NHS! No problem getting to see the GP, A&E
departments not leaving people on trolleys for 35 hours, hardly any
waiting lists for major operations. I paid my state health insurance
and I received excellent treatment whenever I was ill.

Cue for Ophelia to jump in and say yet again: "He only came back to
get his heart operation," when actually I returned in 1982 and
symptoms only appeared in 2012. I've told her that, and you, too, I
think, yet still you both wheel out the same old lies.

MM
Old Codger
2017-03-03 22:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
So you like the idea of using EU nationals, including UK nationals, as
human shields? Because that is effectively what you're advocating.
Britain should take the moral high ground and declare forthwith that
all EU citizens in the UK who fulfil the current residency rights will
be allowed to remain permanently. What *other* EU nations decide about
our citizens living in their countries is entirely a matter for them.
So you are quite happy for Teresa to have our negotiating position
hamstrung?
Yes, if it means using human beings as human shields. Is your name
"Saddam", by any chance?
Not sure from where you get this phrase "Human Shields". The situation
is not remotely equivalent to Nazi Germany or Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
No negotiation before notification.
Agreed, which is why we should not be negotiating either.
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency. Then we
don't have to negotiate anything until we have triggered Article 50.
As things stand we don't have to negotiate anything until the government
triggers article 50. Indeed as you say above, the EU won't negotiate
until then anyway so we don not have to declare that all appropriate EU
citizens have the right to permanent residency.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Vidcapper
2017-03-04 07:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency.
With the provisos that : they don't commit crimes, or that their
residency can be revoked if they are unemployed for an extended period
of time.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Ian Jackson
2017-03-04 08:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency.
With the provisos that : they don't commit crimes, or that their
residency can be revoked if they are unemployed for an extended period
of time.
Quite a lot of EU nationals are extremely worried about what their
status will be after Brexit. Some have gone into what they will have to
do if they are required to apply for permanent residency - and it
appears to be absolutely horrendous.

Among other things, they will have to prove employment by supplying ALL
their payslips (even those from 20 years ago), and declare and give
evidence of every time they have left the UK (and the duration of each
overseas visit) since they first arrived.

Apparently the requirements are, for some inexplicable reason, far more
stringent for EU nationals than for those from outside the EU, and there
is quite a lot of evidence that the Home Office is determined to impose
these requirement to - and even beyond - the letter.

So unless the UK unilaterally declares that Brexit won't change the
status of UK nationals presently living in the UK, the possibility of
them being obliged to leave - or at least them having to jump through
lots of expensive (and possibly impossible) hoops in order to stay -
seems a distinct possibility.
--
Ian
Yellow
2017-03-04 21:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Exactly! All the government needs to do is simply declare that all EU
citizens resident in Britain who fulfil the requirements for permanent
residency shall be granted the right to permanent residency.
With the provisos that : they don't commit crimes, or that their
residency can be revoked if they are unemployed for an extended period
of time.
Quite a lot of EU nationals are extremely worried about what their
status will be after Brexit. Some have gone into what they will have to
do if they are required to apply for permanent residency - and it
appears to be absolutely horrendous.
I understand why these folks are doing what they are doing, but given
there is zero chance they will be frogged marched out of the country,
they will probably be better advised to wait until a working system has
been put into place.
Post by Ian Jackson
Among other things, they will have to prove employment by supplying ALL
their payslips (even those from 20 years ago), and declare and give
evidence of every time they have left the UK (and the duration of each
overseas visit) since they first arrived.
I have a friend with a German wife and she has UK citizenship so it is
clearly possible.
Post by Ian Jackson
Apparently the requirements are, for some inexplicable reason, far more
stringent for EU nationals than for those from outside the EU, and there
is quite a lot of evidence that the Home Office is determined to impose
these requirement to - and even beyond - the letter.
So unless the UK unilaterally declares that Brexit won't change the
status of UK nationals presently living in the UK, the possibility of
them being obliged to leave - or at least them having to jump through
lots of expensive (and possibly impossible) hoops in order to stay -
seems a distinct possibility.
I would expect the hoops to change, perhaps even the equivalent of an
"amnesty". You are here, they give you papers.

Ian Jackson
2017-03-02 10:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and
ignoring the fact that it involves real people with real lives. She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe - and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
--
Ian
tim...
2017-03-02 14:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in the
UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and ignoring
the fact that it involves real people with real lives. She appears to be
oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among the ordinary
people of Europe - and (if reports are to be believed) especially among
our ex-pats who live there.
this is what I don't understand

the fact that the EU citizens in the EU are in Limbo is seen as TM's fault

and the fact that the UK citizens in the EU are in limbo is also TM's fault

that who idea is a nonsense

It's ALWAYS the fault of the legislators in the country you reside in, NO
EXCEPTIONS!

Anyone whining otherwise is a moron who's opinion is worth diddly squat

tim
Ophelia
2017-03-03 11:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in the
UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and ignoring
the fact that it involves real people with real lives. She appears to be
oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among the ordinary
people of Europe - and (if reports are to be believed) especially among
our ex-pats who live there.
this is what I don't understand

the fact that the EU citizens in the EU are in Limbo is seen as TM's fault

and the fact that the UK citizens in the EU are in limbo is also TM's fault

that who idea is a nonsense

It's ALWAYS the fault of the legislators in the country you reside in, NO
EXCEPTIONS!

Anyone whining otherwise is a moron who's opinion is worth diddly squat

tim

===

+1000000000
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Yellow
2017-03-02 14:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and
ignoring the fact that it involves real people with real lives.
All the EU have to say is that UK folk living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.

If on the other hand Mrs May just says EU folk can stay in the UK there
is no hint, clue or indication that the EU will reciprocate and agree to
UK folk remaining in the EU.

This seems so simply to me that I cannot fathom why it isn't obvious to
you and everyone else who somehow seems to think this stand off is Mrs
May's fault.
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?

Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Post by Ian Jackson
and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
Reports?

But whatever, there is nothing Mrs May can do to safeguard the position
of UK citizens living in the EU. Nothing.
Ophelia
2017-03-03 11:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and
ignoring the fact that it involves real people with real lives.
All the EU have to say is that UK folk living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.

If on the other hand Mrs May just says EU folk can stay in the UK there
is no hint, clue or indication that the EU will reciprocate and agree to
UK folk remaining in the EU.

This seems so simply to me that I cannot fathom why it isn't obvious to
you and everyone else who somehow seems to think this stand off is Mrs
May's fault.
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?

Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Post by Ian Jackson
and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
Reports?

But whatever, there is nothing Mrs May can do to safeguard the position
of UK citizens living in the EU. Nothing.

======

Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU citizens can
stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!

I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for the
remoaners. It makes you wonder what they have in their heads .. if
anything!

Her job is to keep our own people safe!!!!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Altroy1
2017-03-03 13:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yellow" wrote in message
All the EU have to say is that UK folk living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.
In other words: the EU should blink first. The voteleavetakecontrol
brigade said let's take back control but there is no taking back control
of the EU member states policy on any persons living in their
jurisdiction who are not nationals of an EU member state.
voteleavetakecontrol knew that well enough even as their red (labour
appealing) battlebus endlessly repeated that £350 million per week was
on its way to the NHS if vote leave.
If on the other hand Mrs May just says EU folk can stay in the UK there
is no hint, clue or indication that the EU will reciprocate and agree to
UK folk remaining in the EU.
In other words, threaten EU citizens in Britain as a bargaining ploy
supposedly to look after UK citizens on places such as the Costa del Sol?
This seems so simply to me that I cannot fathom why it isn't obvious to
you and everyone else who somehow seems to think this stand off is Mrs
May's fault.
It isn't Mrs May's fault unless Mrs May was part of the
voteleavetakecontrol/Adam Smith/NO2AV/Business for Britain alliance
which it appears she wasn't. If votelavetakecontrol breaks it then they
should own it.
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?
Anyone that thinks there should be good faith negotiations with 27 other
countries might give a shit.
Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Which might not mean telling the rest of the world to FK off. That would
be rather strange. The last time I checked countries that built walls to
keep away Johnny Foreigner tended to use those walls to keep their
population IN, the Berlin wall being only one example.
Post by Ian Jackson
and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
Reports?
But whatever, there is nothing Mrs May can do to safeguard the position
of UK citizens living in the EU. Nothing.
======
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU citizens
can stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Nobody is safe unless they find some sort of coccoon somewhere where
their every breath and heartbeat can be monitored night and day until
they croak.
I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for the
remoaners.
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
As simple as ABC. But? Migration. Supported by vested interests. Among
those could be the business alliance for Britain that just might like to
continue the idea of zero hours contracts and Eastern European workers
galore. Want to stop Estern Europe migration? Then obviously a
referendum on free movement. A referendum vote to stop free movement
could have forced EU exit, if the EU refused to change its policy. As it
is, a vote to exit the EU does not either force nor imply an end to
cheap EU labour nor the vested interests that continue to support
migration and zero hours agency workers.
It makes you wonder what they have in their heads .. if
anything!
Her job is to keep our own people safe!!!!
Handsome Jack
2017-03-03 13:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
"Yellow" wrote in message All the EU have to say is that UK folk
living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.
In other words: the EU should blink first.
Nobody's asking anybody to blink first. Just reach a negotiated
agreement.

Once again the Remainers sink to using tendentious , emotive words to
obfuscate the argument.
Post by Altroy1
The voteleavetakecontrol brigade said let's take back control but there
is no taking back control of the EU member states policy on any persons
living in their jurisdiction who are not nationals of an EU member
state.
Nobody ever suggested we should "take back" control of other countries'
policies. Just negotiate with them as all governments do.

Once again you misrepresent your opponents' argument by lying and
distortions. Sorry you can't debate honestly.
Post by Altroy1
voteleavetakecontrol knew that well enough even as their red (labour
appealing) battlebus endlessly repeated that £350 million per week was
on its way to the NHS if vote leave.
If on the other hand Mrs May just says EU folk can stay in the UK there
is no hint, clue or indication that the EU will reciprocate and agree to
UK folk remaining in the EU.
In other words, threaten EU citizens in Britain as a bargaining ploy
supposedly to look after UK citizens on places such as the Costa del Sol?
Nobody has threatened anybody.
Post by Altroy1
This seems so simply to me that I cannot fathom why it isn't obvious to
you and everyone else who somehow seems to think this stand off is Mrs
May's fault.
It isn't Mrs May's fault unless Mrs May was part of the
voteleavetakecontrol/Adam Smith/NO2AV/Business for Britain alliance
which it appears she wasn't. If votelavetakecontrol breaks it then they
should own it.
Once again you are raving about these mythical, all-powerful
"voteleavetakecontrol" eminence grises. Listen: Nobody gives a *fuck*
about them, whoever they are, or were. They are figments of your fevered
imagination.
Post by Altroy1
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?
Anyone that thinks there should be good faith negotiations with 27
other countries might give a shit.
Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Which might not mean telling the rest of the world to FK off.
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Post by Altroy1
That would be rather strange. The last time I checked countries that
built walls to keep away Johnny Foreigner
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Post by Altroy1
tended to use those walls to keep their population IN, the Berlin wall
being only one example.
Post by Ian Jackson
and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
Reports?
But whatever, there is nothing Mrs May can do to safeguard the position
of UK citizens living in the EU. Nothing.
======
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU
citizens can stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Nobody is safe unless they find some sort of coccoon somewhere where
their every breath and heartbeat can be monitored night and day until
they croak.
Sheer maundering stupidity.
Post by Altroy1
I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for
the remoaners.
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
As simple as ABC. But? Migration. Supported by vested interests. Among
those could be the business alliance for Britain that just might like
to continue the idea of zero hours contracts and Eastern European
workers galore. Want to stop Estern Europe migration? Then obviously a
referendum on free movement. A referendum vote to stop free movement
could have forced EU exit, if the EU refused to change its policy. As
it is, a vote to exit the EU does not either force nor imply an end to
cheap EU labour nor the vested interests that continue to support
migration and zero hours agency workers.
Ah, it's the voteleavetakecontrol world dominators again. Led by Ernst
Stavro Blofeld and the Bilderberg group.
--
Jack
Ophelia
2017-03-03 17:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
"Yellow" wrote in message All the EU have to say is that UK folk
living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.
In other words: the EU should blink first.
Nobody's asking anybody to blink first. Just reach a negotiated
agreement.

Once again the Remainers sink to using tendentious , emotive words to
obfuscate the argument.
Post by Altroy1
The voteleavetakecontrol brigade said let's take back control but there is
no taking back control of the EU member states policy on any persons living
in their jurisdiction who are not nationals of an EU member state.
Nobody ever suggested we should "take back" control of other countries'
policies. Just negotiate with them as all governments do.

Once again you misrepresent your opponents' argument by lying and
distortions. Sorry you can't debate honestly.
Post by Altroy1
voteleavetakecontrol knew that well enough even as their red (labour
appealing) battlebus endlessly repeated that £350 million per week was on
its way to the NHS if vote leave.
If on the other hand Mrs May just says EU folk can stay in the UK there
is no hint, clue or indication that the EU will reciprocate and agree to
UK folk remaining in the EU.
In other words, threaten EU citizens in Britain as a bargaining ploy
supposedly to look after UK citizens on places such as the Costa del Sol?
Nobody has threatened anybody.
Post by Altroy1
This seems so simply to me that I cannot fathom why it isn't obvious to
you and everyone else who somehow seems to think this stand off is Mrs
May's fault.
It isn't Mrs May's fault unless Mrs May was part of the
voteleavetakecontrol/Adam Smith/NO2AV/Business for Britain alliance which
it appears she wasn't. If votelavetakecontrol breaks it then they should
own it.
Once again you are raving about these mythical, all-powerful
"voteleavetakecontrol" eminence grises. Listen: Nobody gives a *fuck*
about them, whoever they are, or were. They are figments of your fevered
imagination.
Post by Altroy1
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?
Anyone that thinks there should be good faith negotiations with 27 other
countries might give a shit.
Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Which might not mean telling the rest of the world to FK off.
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Post by Altroy1
That would be rather strange. The last time I checked countries that built
walls to keep away Johnny Foreigner
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Post by Altroy1
tended to use those walls to keep their population IN, the Berlin wall
being only one example.
Post by Ian Jackson
and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
Reports?
But whatever, there is nothing Mrs May can do to safeguard the position
of UK citizens living in the EU. Nothing.
======
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU citizens
can stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Nobody is safe unless they find some sort of coccoon somewhere where their
every breath and heartbeat can be monitored night and day until they croak.
Sheer maundering stupidity.
Post by Altroy1
I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for the
remoaners.
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved. As
simple as ABC. But? Migration. Supported by vested interests. Among those
could be the business alliance for Britain that just might like to continue
the idea of zero hours contracts and Eastern European workers galore. Want
to stop Estern Europe migration? Then obviously a referendum on free
movement. A referendum vote to stop free movement could have forced EU
exit, if the EU refused to change its policy. As it is, a vote to exit the
EU does not either force nor imply an end to cheap EU labour nor the vested
interests that continue to support migration and zero hours agency workers.
Ah, it's the voteleavetakecontrol world dominators again. Led by Ernst
Stavro Blofeld and the Bilderberg group.


Jack

==

They make themselves look ridiculous! If they had any kind of decent point
or argument, surely they wouldn't need to make up such drivel.

Still, no surprises there.
==

My filter grows by the day:(



http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Altroy1
2017-03-03 19:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
"Yellow" wrote in message All the EU have to say is that UK folk
living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.
In other words: the EU should blink first.
Nobody's asking anybody to blink first. Just reach a negotiated agreement.
Once again the Remainers sink to using tendentious , emotive words to
obfuscate the argument.
Emotive words? You know. Words like

Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation
among the ordinary folk of the EU?
Apart from you, here?

Which words might play on emotion, shit perhaps?

Or "among the ordinary folk" (the word ordinary = innuendo)

Then there is this

Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies
and say that the EU citizens can stay, she
has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!

Loonies (insult) lost all clout(emotional) keep our own people(tribal)
our own people safe(suggests the EU is the threat and exit the solution).

To be fair, immigration is a legitimate concern. I wrote nothing here in
support of unrestricted immigration though if you oppose free for all
immigration you might want to also oppose the zero hours casualisation
of the workforce. However people who rail at "Eastern Europeans" but sit
back, relax and remain mute as swans as permanent jobs are allowed to
fade and zero hours contracts brought in as a substitute might have a
small degree of hypocrisy.

What I have written is that free movement is a separate issue to EU
membership and there is not and was not a referendum on that matter.
Perhaps this is because while there is a vested interest to repatriate
powers from the wicked EU there isnt the same vested interest amongst
the powerful to stop free movement. In fact the concept of free movement
gels quite nicely with the Adam Smith brigade who quite like the idea of
the market with its invisible hand to guide all things. The elite worry
about getting a cheap Polish plumber. Meanwhile the working class wory
about finding affordable housing.
Post by Altroy1
The voteleavetakecontrol brigade said let's take back control but
there is no taking back control of the EU member states policy on any
persons living in their jurisdiction who are not nationals of an EU
member state.
Nobody ever suggested we should "take back" control of other countries'
policies. Just negotiate with them as all governments do.
There was a debate in the HoL where one side thought that declaring
(perhaps pre 23 June) EU citizens residency rights and another view was
not do that as it will weaken our bargaining position. It is dificult
for any of us not professional negotiators to really determine what is
really the best strategy, but it is not illegitimate to consider that
one strategy could appear to be treating recent EU UK residents status
as something to be bargained with - and that might appear to be acting
how Mrs May's "the nasty party" might once have acted.
Once again you misrepresent your opponents' argument by lying and
distortions. Sorry you can't debate honestly.
Calling someone a liar like that = bad journalism. Claiming to have a
window into someone's soul is an extrordinary claim. You don't have a
window into my soul despite your pretention. Apparently to some
beLEAVERs anyone with a different view must be ignorant or worse:

I just can't believe how simple it is,
but apparently too simple for the remoaners.
It makes you wonder what they have in their heads
.. if anything!

[...]
Post by Altroy1
It isn't Mrs May's fault unless Mrs May was part of the
voteleavetakecontrol/Adam Smith/NO2AV/Business for Britain alliance
which it appears she wasn't. If votelavetakecontrol breaks it then
they should own it.
Once again you are raving about these mythical, all-powerful
"voteleavetakecontrol" eminence grises. Listen: Nobody gives a *fuck*
about them, whoever they are, or were. They are figments of your fevered
imagination.
Not just my imagination.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4269370/Ukip-s-MP-held-secret-talks-rejoining-Tories.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3834471/Ukip-s-millionaire-donor-Arron-Banks-set-private-DETECTIVES-Vote-Leave-chief-stir-paranoia-rival-Brexit-campaigns.html
Post by Altroy1
Post by Ian Jackson
She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?
Anyone that thinks there should be good faith negotiations with 27
other countries might give a shit.
Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Which might not mean telling the rest of the world to FK off.
More lies. The UK has not done that.
No and I never wrote,implied or tried to imply the UK negotiators did.
What I did was paraphrase (you may think wrongly) the attitude of
certain uk.legal posters. It is the attitude of certain posters in this
group insulting remainers that suggests (sometimes) that not only that
the rest of the world FK off but that if you're not a leaver you should
FK off as well.
Post by Altroy1
That would be rather strange. The last time I checked countries that
built walls to keep away Johnny Foreigner
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Not a lie because I made no such suggestion. What I did was draw an
analogy with countries that in the past adopted isolation. I will give
the benefit of the doubt and accept that the current Ministry for
exiting the EU are not negotiating isolation. My comment of course was
in reply in this newsgroup where there might be an attitude of isolation
among some that post here.
Post by Altroy1
======
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU
citizens can stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Nobody is safe unless they find some sort of coccoon somewhere where
their every breath and heartbeat can be monitored night and day until
they croak.
Sheer maundering stupidity.
Sheer maundering stupidity is all this uk.legal posted stuff about
exiting the EU keeping us safe what with free movement and globalisation
free market economics & so on being completely unaffected by exit EU.
Post by Altroy1
I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for
the remoaners.
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
As simple as ABC. But? Migration. Supported by vested interests. Among
those could be the business alliance for Britain that just might like
to continue the idea of zero hours contracts and Eastern European
workers galore. Want to stop Estern Europe migration? Then obviously a
referendum on free movement. A referendum vote to stop free movement
could have forced EU exit, if the EU refused to change its policy. As
it is, a vote to exit the EU does not either force nor imply an end to
cheap EU labour nor the vested interests that continue to support
migration and zero hours agency workers.
Ah, it's the voteleavetakecontrol world dominators again. Led by Ernst
Stavro Blofeld and the Bilderberg group.
The Lib Dems came along to negotitate with these people. No need to call
upon the recollection of a good historian to demonstrate how they were
comprehensively outsmarted. As was the AV campaign. At one point more
than 60% ahead in the polls. Utterly destroyed in a relatively short period.
Yellow
2017-03-03 18:22:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <o9br3k$46f$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@nothing.invalid
says...
Post by Altroy1
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
Do you really believe this nonsense or did you just post it to get a
reaction?
Ophelia
2017-03-03 18:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yellow" wrote in message news:***@News.Individual.NET...

In article <o9br3k$46f$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@nothing.invalid
says...
Post by Altroy1
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
Do you really believe this nonsense or did you just post it to get a
reaction?

===

Plenty of that here.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
MM
2017-03-02 18:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:57:19 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and
ignoring the fact that it involves real people with real lives. She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe - and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
What with the Brexit fiasco, the NHS, schools, lack of house building,
prisons imploding, expensive railways, roads in dire condition, and
now the police, everything is falling apart under the Tories, and I
sense a mood change among the general population.

But at least we can blame Brexiters for all that, because without the
Brexit fiasco the government could at least spend the time on
concentrating on all the other problems that are besetting the UK
right now.

MM
Ian Jackson
2017-03-02 19:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:57:19 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Old Codger
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
Theresa May this treating this as game of 'who blinks first', and
ignoring the fact that it involves real people with real lives. She
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe - and (if reports are to be believed)
especially among our ex-pats who live there.
What with the Brexit fiasco, the NHS, schools, lack of house building,
prisons imploding, expensive railways, roads in dire condition, and
now the police, everything is falling apart under the Tories, and I
sense a mood change among the general population.
But at least we can blame Brexiters for all that, because without the
Brexit fiasco the government could at least spend the time on
concentrating on all the other problems that are besetting the UK
right now.
But another way of looking at things is that being involved in the
Brexit debacle has kept quite a few Tory MPs 'off the street' - and thus
prevented them from making some of the cock-ups they would undoubtedly
have done had they been out on the loose.
--
Ian
Ophelia
2017-03-02 12:15:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.

The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.


Old Codger

===

People like MM I expect to be thick, but I have been shocked by some I
thought had brains:(

What will they do if we promise the EU citizens here they can stay, and the
EU says our people cant??

I am sure they will have some excuse!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
R. Mark Clayton
2017-03-02 12:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Codger
Post by MM
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
So you wish to guarantee the right of abode of every EU citizen
currently living in the UK, even if, after Brexit, UK citizens find
themselves unable to stay in their current EU country of residence?
Yes.I thought Brexiters wanted to take back control? Well, that means
relinquishing all control over what happens in the rest of the EU. You
can't have your cake AND eat it, you know. What happens to UK citizens
currently living abroad is obviously NOT in the gift of the British
government, which is in the process of "taking back control" exactly
as you Brexiters wanted.
Post by Davey
It sounds like shooting yourself in the foot (rather like a French
security officer).
Does it? How interesting...
Indeed, we do wish to take back control of our laws and borders. This
includes control over who enters and leaves the UK. Why should we give
assurances to EU citizens currently in the uk that they can remain here
when the EU will not give UK citizens an equivalent assurance that they
can remain in the EU? Should Teresa unilaterally give an assurance
about EU citizens then our negotiating position is greatly weakened.
The solution is up to the EU. Permit UK citizens currently resident in
the EU to remain there and the UK will allow EU citizens currently in
the UK to remain here. It is the EU that are playing silly buggers.
It is the UK that is seeking change not the EU. Simply seeking to retain the status quo is hardly "playing silly buggers".

Threatening to deport loads of people already here [and oft settled] perfectly legally is!
Post by Old Codger
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field
What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
burfordTjustice
2017-03-01 11:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
by 1530 they will be all drunk and their vote will
be all that matters...vote by a bunch of drunks
and geezers on drugs.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-03-01 13:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Davey
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:47:07 +0000
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
by 1530 they will be all drunk and their vote will
be all that matters...vote by a bunch of drunks
and geezers on drugs.
I didn't realise that Keith Vaz had been ennobled!
Vidcapper
2017-03-01 12:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
You do realise that a HoL defeat can simply be reversed in the Commons,
right?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Jethro_uk
2017-03-01 12:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
You do realise that a HoL defeat can simply be reversed in the Commons,
right?
FSVO "simple"
pullgees
2017-03-01 17:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
You do realise that a HoL defeat can simply be reversed in the Commons,
right?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Unlike the EU commissioners dictats.
Jumper
2017-03-01 22:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
The defeat was a pyrrhic victory for the remoaners. The government can
use the parliament act to pass the bill unchanged.

---
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MM
2017-03-02 10:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jumper
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
The defeat was a pyrrhic victory for the remoaners. The government can
use the parliament act to pass the bill unchanged.
Problem there is that it will take a year to get to that stage.

MM
Ian Jackson
2017-03-02 11:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Jumper
Post by MM
It's looking increasingly likely that this is what will happen. Unless
Mrs May is keeping her powder dry until PMQs, during which she could
announce some new measure that takes the wind out of the amendment's
sails.
The HoL debate begins at around 15:30 today, with a vote expected
before 18:00.
MM
The defeat was a pyrrhic victory for the remoaners. The government can
use the parliament act to pass the bill unchanged.
Problem there is that it will take a year to get to that stage.
I doubt if it will come to that.

In effect, anyone seen as opposing TM is being blackmailed - and they
will probably give in. It's a case of "If we delay this, it will be bad
for the county - and we'll hold you responsible". In the end, they will
give in.
--
Ian
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