Discussion:
Farage sees sense and backs second referendum ...
(too old to reply)
Jethro_uk
2018-01-11 16:53:54 UTC
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Raw Message
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?

He won. He should get over it.
Lancer
2018-01-11 22:50:12 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
Vidcapper
2018-01-12 07:23:49 UTC
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Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
Oh, yeah - to as system that was, if anything, even less proportional! :(
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
harry
2018-01-12 08:53:59 UTC
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Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Lancer
2018-01-12 09:22:25 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248

"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Jethro_uk
2018-01-12 09:30:16 UTC
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Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning
about the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that,
conveniently forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-referendum-
will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Post by Lancer
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Just like the last one ?

Maybe he should move into predicting the end of the world ?
R. Mark Clayton
2018-01-12 09:55:55 UTC
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Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.

By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the electorate changing their minds would swap the result. Unsurprisingly those who lost think a revote, now the consequences are becoming clearer, might go the other way.
harry
2018-01-12 10:58:56 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning about
the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that, conveniently
forgetting we already had a referendum on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.
By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the electorate changing their minds would swap the result. Unsurprisingly those who lost think a revote, now the consequences are becoming clearer, might go the other way.
Bollix.
We voted to join a commercial trading block, not the shithole Fourth Reich we have now..
Jethro_uk
2018-01-12 11:19:34 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning
about the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that,
conveniently forgetting we already had a referendum on changing
it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-
referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.
By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the
electorate changing their minds would swap the result. Unsurprisingly
those who lost think a revote, now the consequences are becoming
clearer, might go the other way.
Bollix.
We voted to join a commercial trading block, not the shithole Fourth Reich we have now..
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ? Since we aren't actually ruled from Brussels, but Westminster.
tim...
2018-01-12 12:38:53 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was moaning
about the 'unfair' voting system, same with election before that,
conveniently forgetting we already had a referendum on changing
it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-
referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.
By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the
electorate changing their minds would swap the result. Unsurprisingly
those who lost think a revote, now the consequences are becoming
clearer, might go the other way.
Bollix.
We voted to join a commercial trading block, not the shithole Fourth Reich we have now..
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)

tim
Jethro_uk
2018-01-12 12:59:48 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was
moaning about the 'unfair' voting system, same with election
before that, conveniently forgetting we already had a referendum
on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-
referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.
By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the
electorate changing their minds would swap the result.
Unsurprisingly those who lost think a revote, now the consequences
are becoming clearer, might go the other way.
Bollix.
We voted to join a commercial trading block, not the shithole Fourth
Reich we have now..
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you
didn't want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
And Brexit will revive them ? With Theresa May now draping herself in the
clothes of a Greenie ?

How about the nasty UN stopping us trading in ivory ?

(Incidentally, if you really do want to kill the UK grid, it's hard to
think of a better way than using incandescent bulbs again).

The UK would have banned incandescent light bulbs anyway - possibly
*before* the EU directive.
tim...
2018-01-12 18:13:49 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by tim...
Post by harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
Post by harry
Post by Lancer
Post by Jethro_uk
It's almost like he feels 52 over 48 isn't enough ?
He won. He should get over it.
He never does. Last time we had an general election he was
moaning about the 'unfair' voting system, same with election
before that, conveniently forgetting we already had a referendum
on changing it.
No he doesn't.
As usual the MSM/Remainiacs are misreporting what he actually said.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-claims-second-eu-
referendum-will-be-forced-upon-uk-11203939
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Lancer
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/951400764697653248
"Maybe, just maybe, we should have a second referendum on EU membership.
It would kill off the issue for a generation once and for all."
Well the 1975 result was emphatic - over two thirds in favour of joining Europe.
By contrast the 2016 result was pretty close - less than 2% of the
electorate changing their minds would swap the result.
Unsurprisingly those who lost think a revote, now the consequences
are becoming clearer, might go the other way.
Bollix.
We voted to join a commercial trading block, not the shithole Fourth
Reich we have now..
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you
didn't want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
And Brexit will revive them ?
they don't need to now

LEDs are now affordable

tim
Tim Woodall
2018-01-12 12:56:04 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations. The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.

Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them so it's the EU's fault so we should leave'?
Jethro_uk
2018-01-12 15:00:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you
didn't want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations. The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them so it's the EU's fault so we should leave'?
Save your fingers ... logic won't work here.
Handsome Jack
2018-01-13 18:30:26 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that
We are well aware that elements in Whitehall have enthusiastically
colluded with Brussels in introducing new and superfluous regulations,
thank you. That's what civil servants love to do. It doesn't mean they
would have been able to do it anyway without the EU's support.

There is also the phenomenon that the UK government cannot just block
*every* directive or regulation that comes out of Brussels. They have to
go along with some of them, otherwise they won't get any negotiating
concessions in return on things that they really want.
Post by Tim Woodall
and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations.
No they wouldn't, because if there hadn't been an EU directive the
legislation could probably have been successfully opposed at national
level. But once it's a "European law", the government can wring its
hands and say, "We'd like to let you buy decent light bulbs, of course
we would, but I'm afraid the EU doesn't allow it ..." Exactly the same
has happened over the Landfill Directive and the Renewable Energy
Directive.
Post by Tim Woodall
The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them
Essentially, yes.
Post by Tim Woodall
so it's the EU's fault so we should leave'?
Eh?
--
Jack
Lancer
2018-01-14 08:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that
We are well aware that elements in Whitehall have enthusiastically
colluded with Brussels in introducing new and superfluous regulations,
thank you. That's what civil servants love to do. It doesn't mean they
would have been able to do it anyway without the EU's support.
There is also the phenomenon that the UK government cannot just block
*every* directive or regulation that comes out of Brussels. They have to
go along with some of them, otherwise they won't get any negotiating
concessions in return on things that they really want.
Post by Tim Woodall
and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations.
No they wouldn't,
You can prove that?
Post by Handsome Jack
because if there hadn't been an EU directive the
legislation could probably have been successfully opposed at national
level.
Like Australia, Argentina, Canada, Chile, Ecuador, Mexico, Malaysia,
Philippines, Russia, South Korea, Qatar, Switzerland, UAE....? None of
them were 'forced to' by the EU.
Post by Handsome Jack
But once it's a "European law", the government can wring its
hands and say, "We'd like to let you buy decent light bulbs, of course
we would, but I'm afraid the EU doesn't allow it ..." Exactly the same
has happened over the Landfill Directive and the Renewable Energy
Directive.
"European law" is passed by voting on the issue, were UK MEPs and our
government in favour? I know UKIP was not but they are not "Europe".
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them
Essentially, yes.
It it really a ban? You can buy them here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/100W-Incandescent-Light-Bulbs/20706/bn_63390531
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
so it's the EU's fault so we should leave'?
Eh?
Handsome Jack
2018-01-14 20:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that
We are well aware that elements in Whitehall have enthusiastically
colluded with Brussels in introducing new and superfluous regulations,
thank you. That's what civil servants love to do. It doesn't mean they
would have been able to do it anyway without the EU's support.
There is also the phenomenon that the UK government cannot just block
*every* directive or regulation that comes out of Brussels. They have to
go along with some of them, otherwise they won't get any negotiating
concessions in return on things that they really want.
Post by Tim Woodall
and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations.
No they wouldn't,
You can prove that?
No, can you prove your assertions above?
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
because if there hadn't been an EU directive the
legislation could probably have been successfully opposed at national
level.
Like Australia, Argentina, Canada, Chile, Ecuador, Mexico, Malaysia,
Philippines, Russia, South Korea, Qatar, Switzerland, UAE....? None of
them were 'forced to' by the EU.
Can you prove that all of the above countries have introduced
legislation equivalent to the light bulbs directive and that they would
not have done so if the EU hadn't done it?
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
But once it's a "European law", the government can wring its
hands and say, "We'd like to let you buy decent light bulbs, of course
we would, but I'm afraid the EU doesn't allow it ..." Exactly the same
has happened over the Landfill Directive and the Renewable Energy
Directive.
"European law" is passed by voting on the issue, were UK MEPs and our
government in favour?
I expect they voted for it. So?
Post by Lancer
I know UKIP was not but they are not "Europe".
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them
Essentially, yes.
It it really a ban? You can buy them here.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/100W-Incandescent-Light-Bulbs/20706/bn_63390531
Can you buy them in the shops? No. So it's really a ban.

And if it's not really a ban, what was the point of doing it? Just to
stop a few octogenarians without Internet access buying decent light
bulbs? Why would you do that? Malice?
--
Jack
Lancer
2018-01-14 22:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that you didn't
want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that
We are well aware that elements in Whitehall have enthusiastically
colluded with Brussels in introducing new and superfluous regulations,
thank you. That's what civil servants love to do. It doesn't mean they
would have been able to do it anyway without the EU's support.
There is also the phenomenon that the UK government cannot just block
*every* directive or regulation that comes out of Brussels. They have to
go along with some of them, otherwise they won't get any negotiating
concessions in return on things that they really want.
Post by Tim Woodall
and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations.
No they wouldn't,
You can prove that?
No, can you prove your assertions above?
You made the claim the UK would not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7016020.stm

A full year before the EU directive was agreed by all member states.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
because if there hadn't been an EU directive the
legislation could probably have been successfully opposed at national
level.
Like Australia, Argentina, Canada, Chile, Ecuador, Mexico, Malaysia,
Philippines, Russia, South Korea, Qatar, Switzerland, UAE....? None of
them were 'forced to' by the EU.
Can you prove that all of the above countries have introduced
legislation equivalent to the light bulbs directive and that they would
not have done so if the EU hadn't done it?
Brazil and Venezuela started the phase-out in 2005, independently.

Canada in 2007

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lightbulbs-env/canada-to-ban-incandescent-light-bulbs-by-2012-idUSN2529253520070425

EU 2009.

Others in 2014.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Lancer
Post by Handsome Jack
But once it's a "European law", the government can wring its
hands and say, "We'd like to let you buy decent light bulbs, of course
we would, but I'm afraid the EU doesn't allow it ..." Exactly the same
has happened over the Landfill Directive and the Renewable Energy
Directive.
"European law" is passed by voting on the issue, were UK MEPs and our
government in favour?
I expect they voted for it. So?
Not forced on us then.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Lancer
I know UKIP was not but they are not "Europe".
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the EU
regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government couldn't
have stopped you buying them
Essentially, yes.
It it really a ban? You can buy them here.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/100W-Incandescent-Light-Bulbs/20706/bn_63390531
Can you buy them in the shops? No. So it's really a ban.
It's not a full ban, only partial.
Post by Handsome Jack
And if it's not really a ban, what was the point of doing it? Just to
stop a few octogenarians without Internet access buying decent light
bulbs? Why would you do that? Malice?
So you're a Leaver because whatever the EU does, with or without or
support, is done out of malice? Project Fear.
Ian Jackson
2018-01-14 23:30:30 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Lancer
It it really a ban? You can buy them here.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/100W-Incandescent-Light-Bulbs/20706/bn_63390531
Can you buy them in the shops? No. So it's really a ban.
In the last few years, I've bought several 4-packs of 60W incandescent
bulbs. All have been from small DIY and hardware shops. They are
normally specced as being 'heavy duty'.
Post by Handsome Jack
And if it's not really a ban, what was the point of doing it? Just to
stop a few octogenarians without Internet access buying decent light
bulbs? Why would you do that? Malice?
The restriction on the sale of incandescents (the alternative being CFL)
was probably a bit premature. Some CFLs are/were pretty crappy. I've got
some that take several minutes to reach full brightness. With the
arrival of LED bulbs, few of us have a legitimate reason to need
incandescents.
--
Ian
pamela
2018-01-14 13:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by tim...
Post by Jethro_uk
Just out of interest, what has the *EU* forced you to do that
you didn't want to ?
stop using incandescent light bulbs (CFL's are shit!)
Huh? The government supported that
We are well aware that elements in Whitehall have
enthusiastically colluded with Brussels in introducing new and
superfluous regulations, thank you.
I'm not aware of that collusion. Can you post a link to the proof
of it?

Can you show that most of Whitehall never wanted low-energy
lightbulbs and that only "elements" in there did?
Post by Handsome Jack
That's what civil servants
love to do. It doesn't mean they would have been able to do it
anyway without the EU's support.
There is also the phenomenon that the UK government cannot just
block *every* directive or regulation that comes out of
Brussels. They have to go along with some of them, otherwise
they won't get any negotiating concessions in return on things
that they really want.
Why would the UK want to block EU directives whch are in its
favour and which it wants to implement?
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
and would have introduced it
regardless of the EU regulations.
No they wouldn't, because if there hadn't been an EU directive
the legislation could probably have been successfully opposed at
national level.
Probably or possibly? In other words, not actually.
Post by Handsome Jack
But once it's a "European law", the government
can wring its hands and say, "We'd like to let you buy decent
light bulbs, of course we would, but I'm afraid the EU doesn't
allow it ..." Exactly the same has happened over the Landfill
Directive and the Renewable Energy Directive.
So the UK government gets what it wants by making the EU the fall
guy for politcally difficult decisions.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Tim Woodall
The government had a voluntary
agreement with retailers to start the phase out earlier than the
EU regulations requiref.
Or are you saying 'if the EU hadn't banned them, the government
couldn't have stopped you buying them
Essentially, yes.
Er, are you completely sure about that?
--
The wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car
Ian Jackson
2018-01-14 13:55:13 UTC
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Post by pamela
Why would the UK want to block EU directives whch are in its
favour and which it wants to implement?
NIH (of course).

Loathsome UK directives are far better than those from the EU.
--
Ian
pamela
2018-01-14 15:15:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by pamela
Why would the UK want to block EU directives whch are in its
favour and which it wants to implement?
NIH (of course).
Loathsome UK directives are far better than those from the EU.
You can't beat doublethink!
--
The wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car
R. Mark Clayton
2018-01-15 09:00:38 UTC
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Complete hyperbole.

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