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Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
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Peter Percival
2017-11-07 18:15:12 UTC
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161

Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Yellow
2017-11-07 18:37:02 UTC
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 18:15:12 +0000, Peter Percival
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
Grow up.
pamela
2017-11-07 18:48:29 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...

There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
The Todal
2017-11-08 09:56:14 UTC
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Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.

His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.

Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
pamela
2017-11-08 11:24:26 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense
of concern and anger at the process where the government or
the Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of
care over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his
behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end
as justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part
in disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian
feminists". I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it
was absolutely right to investigate the allegations made against
Carl Sargeant and for him to be suspended, or to voluntarily
resign from office, pending the investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that
the allegations were trivial.
Rejoicing over a public figure's suicide is disgraceful whatever the
allegations.
Post by The Todal
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that
someone has committed suicide can we stop investigating all
these allegations of assault, bullying and predatory sexual
behaviour" in which case the answer must be firmly "no, and if
you have any guilty secrets yourself, maybe it's time to consult
your lawyer".
Will you too rejoice over the suicide of this man who hasn't even
been charged, let alone found guilty?
The Todal
2017-11-08 12:04:16 UTC
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Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense
of concern and anger at the process where the government or
the Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of
care over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his
behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end
as justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part
in disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian
feminists". I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it
was absolutely right to investigate the allegations made against
Carl Sargeant and for him to be suspended, or to voluntarily
resign from office, pending the investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that
the allegations were trivial.
Rejoicing over a public figure's suicide is disgraceful whatever the
allegations.
Can you see any evidence, anywhere, of people rejoicing over Carl
Sargeant's suicide?
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that
someone has committed suicide can we stop investigating all
these allegations of assault, bullying and predatory sexual
behaviour" in which case the answer must be firmly "no, and if
you have any guilty secrets yourself, maybe it's time to consult
your lawyer".
Will you too rejoice over the suicide of this man who hasn't even
been charged, let alone found guilty?
Why would I, or anyone, "rejoice" over the suicide of another person?
Have you ever rejoiced over anyone's suicide? If so, tell me about it.
pamela
2017-11-08 16:16:58 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing
sense of concern and anger at the process where the
government or the Labour Party appear not to have
exercised their duty of care over Mr Sargeant after he
faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to
be driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see
the end as justifying almost any means. I suspect they will
take part in disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold
proper standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating
lesbian feminists". I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but
I think it was absolutely right to investigate the allegations
made against Carl Sargeant and for him to be suspended, or to
voluntarily resign from office, pending the investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that
the allegations were trivial.
Rejoicing over a public figure's suicide is disgraceful
whatever the allegations.
Can you see any evidence, anywhere, of people rejoicing over
Carl Sargeant's suicide?
I suspect they will and that's what I was writing about. Your
reply seems to be at a tangent.
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that
someone has committed suicide can we stop investigating all
these allegations of assault, bullying and predatory sexual
behaviour" in which case the answer must be firmly "no, and if
you have any guilty secrets yourself, maybe it's time to
consult your lawyer".
Will you too rejoice over the suicide of this man who hasn't
even been charged, let alone found guilty?
Why would I, or anyone, "rejoice" over the suicide of another
person? Have you ever rejoiced over anyone's suicide? If so,
tell me about it.
Those who do are extremists.
The Todal
2017-11-08 18:28:46 UTC
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Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing
sense of concern and anger at the process where the
government or the Labour Party appear not to have
exercised their duty of care over Mr Sargeant after he
faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to
be driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see
the end as justifying almost any means. I suspect they will
take part in disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold
proper standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating
lesbian feminists". I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but
I think it was absolutely right to investigate the allegations
made against Carl Sargeant and for him to be suspended, or to
voluntarily resign from office, pending the investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that
the allegations were trivial.
Rejoicing over a public figure's suicide is disgraceful
whatever the allegations.
Can you see any evidence, anywhere, of people rejoicing over
Carl Sargeant's suicide?
I suspect they will and that's what I was writing about. Your
reply seems to be at a tangent.
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that
someone has committed suicide can we stop investigating all
these allegations of assault, bullying and predatory sexual
behaviour" in which case the answer must be firmly "no, and if
you have any guilty secrets yourself, maybe it's time to
consult your lawyer".
Will you too rejoice over the suicide of this man who hasn't
even been charged, let alone found guilty?
Why would I, or anyone, "rejoice" over the suicide of another
person? Have you ever rejoiced over anyone's suicide? If so,
tell me about it.
Those who do are extremists.
The only people who are likely to rejoice over his death are the sleazy
perverts who think that it will help to bury any further investigations
into those who molest women in the workplace.

But I doubt if even they are rejoicing.
Graham T
2017-11-08 18:42:26 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad.  This bit raises some questions...
     There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing
     sense of concern and anger at the process where the
     government or the Labour Party appear not to have
     exercised their duty of care over Mr Sargeant after he
     faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to
be driven by radical social reformation.  They tend to see
the end as justifying almost any means.  I suspect they will
take part in disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold
proper standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating
lesbian feminists". I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but
I think it was absolutely right to investigate the allegations
made against Carl Sargeant and for him to be suspended, or to
voluntarily resign from office, pending the investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that
the allegations were trivial.
Rejoicing over a public figure's suicide is disgraceful
whatever the allegations.
Can you see any evidence, anywhere, of people rejoicing over
Carl Sargeant's suicide?
I suspect they will and that's what I was writing about.  Your
reply seems to be at a tangent.
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by The Todal
Am I "happy"?  I suspect the question actually means "now that
someone has committed suicide can we stop investigating all
these allegations of assault, bullying and predatory sexual
behaviour" in which case the answer must be firmly "no, and if
you have any guilty secrets yourself, maybe it's time to
consult your lawyer".
Will you too rejoice over the suicide of this man who hasn't
even been charged, let alone found guilty?
Why would I, or anyone, "rejoice" over the suicide of another
person? Have you ever rejoiced over anyone's suicide? If so,
tell me about it.
Those who do are extremists.
The only people who are likely to rejoice over his death are the sleazy
perverts who think that it will help to bury any further investigations
into those who molest women in the workplace.
Or of course feminazis who have been making things up.
pullgees
2017-11-08 17:03:19 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them. Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
The Todal
2017-11-08 18:37:46 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them. Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.

In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.

I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.

The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.

But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
pullgees
2017-11-08 21:23:01 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them. Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.
In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.
I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.
The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.
But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
It's a new McCarthyism, where all is sacrificed on the alter of hearsay, hysteria and editorial devilry.
Yellow
2017-11-08 21:39:52 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them.
Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.
In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.
I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.
The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.
But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
It's a new McCarthyism, where all is sacrificed on the alter of hearsay, hysteria and editorial devilry.
Ironically, you are the one being hysterical.
pullgees
2017-11-09 07:46:54 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them.
Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.
In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.
I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.
The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.
But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
It's a new McCarthyism, where all is sacrificed on the alter of hearsay, hysteria and editorial devilry.
Ironically, you are the one being hysterical.
No I'm being historical.
Yellow
2017-11-09 14:05:22 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by
them.
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.
In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.
I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.
The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.
But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
It's a new McCarthyism, where all is sacrificed on the alter of hearsay, hysteria and editorial devilry.
Ironically, you are the one being hysterical.
No I'm being historical.
I have this image of you running around with your hand in the air
screaming "please think of the children".....
pullgees
2017-11-09 14:32:55 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by
them.
Post by pullgees
Post by pullgees
Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Good point. The police and the public usually find a way of leaving real
victims unprotected whilst making a lot of fuss about low hanging fruit.
In care homes, vulnerable people continue to be abused and exploited and
nobody is protecting them. Same in young offenders' prisons.
I'm sure vulnerable girls from broken homes will continue to be groomed,
exploited and pimped out by gangs.
The powerful politicians like Cyril Smith were able to get away with
their disgraceful sexual perversions because the police were either
scared of rocking the boat or keen to build mutually beneficial
relationships with powerful people. That is likely to remain so today.
But it doesn't meant that the women who have been bullied or molested in
workplaces are making a fuss about nothing. It just means that it is
currently fashionable to listen to them. Maybe tomorrow's fashion will
be to show sympathy and understanding to suicidal people who are under
investigation for disciplinary matters in the workplace. There are many
thousands of such people.
It's a new McCarthyism, where all is sacrificed on the alter of hearsay, hysteria and editorial devilry.
Ironically, you are the one being hysterical.
No I'm being historical.
I have this image of you running around with your hand in the air
screaming "please think of the children".....
I'll leave that to the universities and risk assessment procedure for speakers.
JNugent
2017-11-08 23:19:12 UTC
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Post by pullgees
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them. Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Well said.
harry
2017-11-09 08:43:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by pullgees
Post by The Todal
Post by pamela
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
That's very, very sad. This bit raises some questions...
There is, among some senior Labour figures, a growing sense of
concern and anger at the process where the government or the
Labour Party appear not to have exercised their duty of care
over Mr Sargeant after he faced accusations about his behaviour.
Post by Peter Percival
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
The malcontents you characterise in that way often appear to be
driven by radical social reformation. They tend to see the end as
justifying almost any means. I suspect they will take part in
disgraceful rejoicing.
It's disgraceful to characterise those who want to uphold proper
standards of behaviour in politics as "man-hating lesbian feminists".
I'm not a man-hating lesbian feminist but I think it was absolutely
right to investigate the allegations made against Carl Sargeant and for
him to be suspended, or to voluntarily resign from office, pending the
investigations.
His suicide doesn't prove either that he was innocent or that the
allegations were trivial.
Am I "happy"? I suspect the question actually means "now that someone
has committed suicide can we stop investigating all these allegations of
assault, bullying and predatory sexual behaviour" in which case the
answer must be firmly "no, and if you have any guilty secrets yourself,
maybe it's time to consult your lawyer".
The middle class female commentariat and politicians have gone completely insane over some of the lesser incidents of sexual advancement, casting them in the same category as rape, and this goes on day after day. Yet where were these feminists when the raping by mainly Pakistani men on under girls from poor backgrounds in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and other places was going on. A few words here and there perhaps but so inconvenient and then forgotten by them. Yet Pestminster pales into insignificance compared to that. Only because these women have power to protest and were directly effected do we hear such non-stop noise, but those poor girls had no power and no voice. Talk about double standards.
Quite right!!!!
thedarkman
2017-11-08 00:57:50 UTC
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My thoughts exactly. Hopefully these cunts will be satisfied now. But don't hold your breath.
Big Jumper
2017-11-08 09:18:44 UTC
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Post by thedarkman
My thoughts exactly. Hopefully these cunts will be satisfied now. But don't hold your breath.
They wont be happy until all men are in prison.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Nick
2017-11-08 11:39:13 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
Apologies if this is a duplicate eternal-september seems to have stopped
working so I reposted on Astraweb.


"Carl Sargeant the Welsh minister found dead at home, was kept in dark
over sex allegations that led to his sacking"

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/carl-sargeant-welsh-minister-found-dead-home-kept-dark-sex-allegations/>

When we were told that we needed anonymity for women alleging sexual
abuse I hoped some reason and fairness would be applied to the
application of this rule. Instead we see this is what it leads to.

I think it is time to revert to a system of justice where those who are
accused know what they are accused of and by whom.

It is time women stood up for themselves. If they think men have behaved
inappropriately they should say so openly but they should make clear
that they have taken reasonable and proportionate steps to resolve the
problem before making an official complaint. Reasonable steps which
often seem to be as simple as saying please don't do that, I don't like it.
The Todal
2017-11-08 12:11:22 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Nick
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
Apologies if this is a duplicate eternal-september seems to have stopped
working so I reposted on Astraweb.
"Carl Sargeant the Welsh minister found dead at home, was kept in dark
over sex allegations that led to his sacking"
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/carl-sargeant-welsh-minister-found-dead-home-kept-dark-sex-allegations/>
When we were told that we needed anonymity for women alleging sexual
abuse I hoped some reason and fairness would be applied to the
application of this rule. Instead we see this is what it leads to.
No, we don't. We see that one man has committed suicide. And as a
result, lots of virtue-signalling people of both sexes are claiming that
the heartless Labour Party didn't adopt a fair system of investigation
(the phrase is usually "I don't know what system was adopted but it
doesn't sound fair") and that he wasn't offered enough pastoral support.
Post by Nick
I think it is time to revert to a system of justice where those who are
accused know what they are accused of and by whom.
Maybe if he'd been given more details he'd have committed suicide still.
Post by Nick
It is time women stood up for themselves. If they think men have behaved
inappropriately they should say so openly but they should make clear
that they have taken reasonable and proportionate steps to resolve the
problem before making an official complaint. Reasonable steps which
often seem to be as simple as saying please don't do that, I don't like it.
That is stating the obvious, mainly because it is a generalisation that
doesn't apply to many of these scenarios. To some men, it is axiomatic
that you shouldn't take no for an answer, and that a no just means you
haven't tried hard enough to overcome the resistance.
Nick
2017-11-08 13:49:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by Nick
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
Apologies if this is a duplicate eternal-september seems to have
stopped working so I reposted on Astraweb.
"Carl Sargeant the Welsh minister found dead at home, was kept in dark
over sex allegations that led to his sacking"
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/carl-sargeant-welsh-minister-found-dead-home-kept-dark-sex-allegations/>
When we were told that we needed anonymity for women alleging sexual
abuse I hoped some reason and fairness would be applied to the
application of this rule. Instead we see this is what it leads to.
No, we don't. We see that one man has committed suicide. And as a
result, lots of virtue-signalling people of both sexes are claiming that
the heartless Labour Party didn't adopt a fair system of investigation
(the phrase is usually "I don't know what system was adopted but it
doesn't sound fair") and that he wasn't offered enough pastoral support.
It is what it is. I'm not making stuff up or virtue signalling.

I can't imagine a more egregious inequality. The women making the
complaints are giving anonymity and yet his name was published as a
alleged abuser without him even being allowed to know what he was being
accused of. He couldn't defend himself, explain or offer mitigation
because he didn't know what he was supposed to have done.

As you point out most men, who are not perfect, have behaved
inappropriately in their lifetimes, have breached etiquette. Did he
touch a woman's knee or try to kiss someone whilst tipsy? Did he say to
a young intern that she looked pretty and if he was 30 years younger...?
Did he forget to close his mouth whilst eating in front of a female
colleague?

It is obscene but typical of the witch hunt mentality.
Post by The Todal
Post by Nick
I think it is time to revert to a system of justice where those who
are accused know what they are accused of and by whom.
Maybe if he'd been given more details he'd have committed suicide still.
Oh well that makes it all right then? If we'd given him a trial before
burning him we might have found he guilty anyway.
Post by The Todal
Post by Nick
It is time women stood up for themselves. If they think men have
behaved inappropriately they should say so openly but they should make
clear that they have taken reasonable and proportionate steps to
resolve the problem before making an official complaint. Reasonable
steps which often seem to be as simple as saying please don't do that,
I don't like it.
That is stating the obvious, mainly because it is a generalisation that
doesn't apply to many of these scenarios. To some men, it is axiomatic
that you shouldn't take no for an answer, and that a no just means you
haven't tried hard enough to overcome the resistance.
It is a generalisation that we see clearly not applied in some cases.
For example women who claim to have been raped but self admittedly
didn't ask the alleged rapist to stop because it would have been rude.
Nick
2017-11-08 11:23:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
"Carl Sargeant the Welsh minister found dead at home, was kept in dark
over sex allegations that led to his sacking"

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/carl-sargeant-welsh-minister-found-dead-home-kept-dark-sex-allegations/>

When we are told that we needed anonymity for women alleging sexual
abuse I hoped some reason and fairness would be applied to the
application of this rule. Instead we see this is what it leads to.

I think it is time to revert to a system of justice where those who are
accused know what they are accused of and by whom.

It is time women stood up for themselves. If they think men have behaved
inappropriately they should say so openly but they should make clear
that they have taken reasonable and proportionate steps to resolve the
problem before making a complaint. Reasonable steps which often seem to
be as simple as saying please don't do that, I don't like it.
Altroy1
2017-11-08 22:44:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Percival
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
Will the man-hating lesbian feminists be happy now?
It's a pity that some man hating feminists weren't around at the time to deal
with the like of Jimmy Savile. For that matter even man loving feminists could
have got together and done the job. Instead, long after, an eighty six year old
man was prosecuted to show the world that the days of Jimmy Savile were over. On
the contrary, such prosecution of and old man shows yet again that where power
exists, tolerance of its abuse co-exists:

Here is an update on the Harris appeal:

http://primenews.com.au/harris-launches-bid-to-clear-his-name/

The court was told a "Walter Mitty" type character who had
appeared as a prosecution witness in the trial in 2014 had
claimed that he recalled Harris had visited the centre in 1969,
because it occurred just after the witness returned from a
lengthy tour of duty in Korea.

However, defence lawyer Stephen Vullo QC said that no-one in the
first trial had picked up on the fact that the Korean War had
finished many years earlier, and further information had
revealed the man, David James, had never left the UK and in fact
had been discharged from the Royal Air Force after just 10 days.

Mr Vullo said the disclosure process should also have revealed
that Mr James, who died after giving evidence in 2014, had
picked up minor offences as a truck driver in the late '60s,
which would have provided further clues about his true
employment in the late 1960s.

I must admit I'm surprised the defence didn't recall the Korean war was in the
early '50s. Perhaps the defence were composed of youthful solicitors and
barristers who weren't clued-in.

Then there was this, an accuser that had complained repeatedly about past abuse
but curiously failed to mention Mr Harris.

Mr Vullo sought to introduce new evidence relating to her
medical records obtained through a civil lawsuit which showed
that on 49 separate occasions, the complainant had told medical
specialists or counsellors that she had been abused by a family
member, but did not mention being abused by Harris.

However Mr Rees argued that the jury had been aware that the
woman had complained before about being sexually abused by a
family member.

He said the jury was aware "this was a lady with a chaotic life
stemming from the systemic abuse my learned friend refers to."

Mr Rees argued the jury had been well aware of her anorexia,
bulimia, drug and alcohol counselling and diagnoses of
post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality
disorder.


The uncoroborrated evidence of an accuser with those kind of problems!? I'm
amazed such evidence was ever held admissible. Talk about justice being blind,
this really takes the biscuit.



http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/5041818/rolf-harris-witness-was-a-walter-mitty-type-fantasist/

Key evidence that could have exonerated Rolf Harris was not seen
by the jury in his 2014 sexual abuse trial, his lawyers have
told a London appeals court.

It includes evidence that a prosecution witness was a "Walter
Mitty-type" fantasist who lied about serving in the Korean War,
and that one of his accusers had complained of sexual assault on
almost 50 occasions without naming Harris as her abuser.

And the father of another of his accusers said he would never
have let her go alone to see Harris perform, as she had claimed.


http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/rolf-harris-appeals-sex-abuse-convictions/
Handsome Jack
2017-11-09 16:46:34 UTC
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Post by Altroy1
However Mr Rees argued that the jury had been aware that the
woman had complained before about being sexually abused by a
family member.
He said the jury was aware "this was a lady with a chaotic life
stemming from the systemic abuse my learned friend refers to."
Mr Rees argued the jury had been well aware of her anorexia,
bulimia, drug and alcohol counselling and diagnoses of
post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality
disorder.
The uncoroborrated evidence of an accuser with those kind of problems!?
I'm amazed such evidence was ever held admissible. Talk about justice
being blind, this really takes the biscuit.
If you were properly au fait with Survivor Culture you'd know that the
more disturbed a witness is, the more we have a duty to believe her
(it's nearly always a her) no matter how preposterous her allegations.
Otherwise we'd have a Predator's Charter.
--
Jack
pamela
2017-11-09 17:04:36 UTC
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Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Altroy1
However Mr Rees argued that the jury had been aware that the
woman had complained before about being sexually abused by a
family member.
He said the jury was aware "this was a lady with a chaotic
life stemming from the systemic abuse my learned friend refers
to."
Mr Rees argued the jury had been well aware of her anorexia,
bulimia, drug and alcohol counselling and diagnoses of
post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality
disorder.
The uncoroborrated evidence of an accuser with those kind of
problems!? I'm amazed such evidence was ever held admissible.
Talk about justice being blind, this really takes the biscuit.
If you were properly au fait with Survivor Culture you'd know
that the more disturbed a witness is, the more we have a duty to
believe her (it's nearly always a her) no matter how
preposterous her allegations. Otherwise we'd have a Predator's
Charter.
Part of the problems people with Borderline Personality Disorder
cause is down to them being believed too readily - usually on
account of their emotional overreaction and vindictiveness.

A friend of mine has BPD and she gets into all sorts of major
scrapes which you would think are always the fault of others.....
until you realise that she always makes a contribution to what
goes wrong.

I mean... she has sex with her psychiatrist and then when the
police come to investigate, she has sex with the policeman. She
plays the victim card and everyone sympathises but I know her and
she's no victim.
The Todal
2017-11-09 20:57:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by pamela
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Altroy1
However Mr Rees argued that the jury had been aware that the
woman had complained before about being sexually abused by a
family member.
He said the jury was aware "this was a lady with a chaotic
life stemming from the systemic abuse my learned friend refers
to."
Mr Rees argued the jury had been well aware of her anorexia,
bulimia, drug and alcohol counselling and diagnoses of
post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality
disorder.
The uncoroborrated evidence of an accuser with those kind of
problems!? I'm amazed such evidence was ever held admissible.
Talk about justice being blind, this really takes the biscuit.
If you were properly au fait with Survivor Culture you'd know
that the more disturbed a witness is, the more we have a duty to
believe her (it's nearly always a her) no matter how
preposterous her allegations. Otherwise we'd have a Predator's
Charter.
Part of the problems people with Borderline Personality Disorder
cause is down to them being believed too readily - usually on
account of their emotional overreaction and vindictiveness.
A friend of mine has BPD and she gets into all sorts of major
scrapes which you would think are always the fault of others.....
until you realise that she always makes a contribution to what
goes wrong.
I mean... she has sex with her psychiatrist and then when the
police come to investigate, she has sex with the policeman. She
plays the victim card and everyone sympathises but I know her and
she's no victim.
Part of the problem is when psychiatrists and police officers are unable
to keep a professional distance and prefer to take advantage of the
mentally ill.

Of course, before 2003 it was acceptable, even normal, for a doctor to
screw a patient or a police officer to screw a victim of crime. Now we
have Political Correctness Gone Mad.
Altroy1
2017-11-09 22:12:02 UTC
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Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Altroy1
However Mr Rees argued that the jury had been aware that the
woman had complained before about being sexually abused by a
family member.
He said the jury was aware "this was a lady with a chaotic life
stemming from the systemic abuse my learned friend refers to."
Mr Rees argued the jury had been well aware of her anorexia,
bulimia, drug and alcohol counselling and diagnoses of
post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality
disorder.
The uncoroborrated evidence of an accuser with those kind of
problems!? I'm amazed such evidence was ever held admissible. Talk
about justice being blind, this really takes the biscuit.
If you were properly au fait with Survivor Culture you'd know that the
more disturbed a witness is, the more we have a duty to believe her
(it's nearly always a her) no matter how preposterous her allegations.
Otherwise we'd have a Predator's Charter.
The legal process is not a mind reading process otherwise there would be rather
less problems. Without mind-reading, a decent legal system requires the
prosecution to prove its case to a high degree. A legal system that allows less
threatens not only the guilty but is a clear and present danger to the innocent
as well.

In the Salem Witch Trials, accusers had all sorts of meticulous and lurid
details to recount to the credulous judges and juries but that did not make them
true. In the case of David Bryant the fantasist and delusional accuser had all
sorts of meticulous detail to recount. His evidence should have been given the
treatement it deserved. Accuser "Nick" gave a nice lurid account of the
wickedness done in his presence. Apparently middle class, neatly dressed and
articulate, softie policemen and women deemed his fantasies "credible and true".
Last I heard "Nick" was under investigation for wasting police time.

When Bindi Harris gave evidence the prosecution put the case that her evidence
was tainted by the potential inheritance from her father's estate. Well the same
goes for the accusers. If a situation is alllowed to develop which gives someone
who has had a finger touch her private parts for a few seconds by a wealthy
celebrity claim greater compensation than an employer who by negligence breaks
an employees arm, then it seems not illogical to conclude that something is not
quite right.

No matter how sincere, a disturbed and distraught accuser cannot prove beyond a
reasonable doubt a case against an accused unless her or his evidence is
coroborrated.

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