Discussion:
UK Manufacturing Statistics
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Bod
2017-11-08 10:29:58 UTC
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Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.

https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
R. Mark Clayton
2017-11-08 12:29:05 UTC
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Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?

Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a result of the increased price / reduced profit?
Bod
2017-11-08 12:32:34 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a result of the increased price / reduced profit?
Unknown at the moment.
--
Bod
R. Mark Clayton
2017-11-08 12:34:31 UTC
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Post by Bod
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a result of the increased price / reduced profit?
Unknown at the moment.
--
Bod
Overall it is almost exactly half (to EU +2). Lost trade will depend on the sector and level of tariff.
tim
2017-11-08 13:33:35 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff
will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how many of the 2.7M will be
laid off because the sales lost as a result of the increased price /
reduced profit?
Unknown at the moment.
--
Bod
Overall it is almost exactly half (to EU +2). Lost trade will depend on
the sector and level of tariff.
the EU external tariff for manufactured goods is under 10%

It's in the noise level

proof of regulatory compliance is likely to be a far bigger issue

tim
pamela
2017-11-08 21:09:09 UTC
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Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy.
Contrary to widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is
strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7
million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-
statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but
9th now?
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and
what tariff will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how
many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as
a result of the increased price / reduced profit?
Unknown at the moment.
--
Bod
Overall it is almost exactly half (to EU +2). Lost trade will
depend on the sector and level of tariff.
the EU external tariff for manufactured goods is under 10%
It's in the noise level
A extra cost of 10% is no more than noise?
Post by tim
proof of regulatory compliance is likely to be a far bigger
issue
tim
James Wilkinson Sword
2017-11-09 16:25:47 UTC
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Post by tim
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes =A36.7tn to the global economy. Contrar=
y to
Post by tim
Post by Bod
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes =
up
Post by tim
Post by Bod
10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million pe=
ople.
Post by tim
Post by Bod
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now=
?
Post by tim
Post by Bod
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what t=
ariff
Post by tim
Post by Bod
will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit and how many of the 2.7M wi=
ll be
Post by tim
Post by Bod
laid off because the sales lost as a result of the increased price=
/
Post by tim
Post by Bod
reduced profit?
Unknown at the moment.
--
Bod
Overall it is almost exactly half (to EU +2). Lost trade will depend=
on
Post by tim
the sector and level of tariff.
the EU external tariff for manufactured goods is under 10%
It's in the noise level
proof of regulatory compliance is likely to be a far bigger issue
Remove all regulations, and just get on with it. That's why China is be=
ating us.

-- =

"Naff" is actually an old gay slang for useless, from its original meani=
ng of 'heterosexual' i.e. Not Available For Fucking.
The Peeler
2017-11-09 19:01:47 UTC
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 16:25:47 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Remove all regulations, and just get on with it. That's why China is beating us.
No, idiot, that's not why! <tsk>
--
More of wanker Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) twisted
sexuality:
"Facial hair is the same as pubic hair, therefore disgusting."
MID: <***@red.lan>
tim
2017-11-08 13:30:18 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
that's just our manufacturing output

we out perform by a mile all of the other countries except the US in
services

Our place in the world economy is the total of the two
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff
will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit
Less than 10%

Lower than the effect on prices of the fall in the pound
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a
result of the increased price / reduced profit?
why will there necessarily be any lost sales?

tim
R. Mark Clayton
2017-11-08 16:41:02 UTC
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Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
that's just our manufacturing output
we out perform by a mile all of the other countries except the US in
services
Our place in the world economy is the total of the two
I was trying to trip Bod up.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff
will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit
Less than 10%
Lower than the effect on prices of the fall in the pound
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a
result of the increased price / reduced profit?
why will there necessarily be any lost sales?
The tariff, the tariff applied to incoming raw materials used to manufacture most things, regulatory compliance, customs compliance, firms moving production UK -> EU
Post by tim
tim
tim
2017-11-08 18:53:59 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Bod
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
--
Bod
I knew we had slipped from 5th to 8th largest economy, but 9th now?
that's just our manufacturing output
we out perform by a mile all of the other countries except the US in
services
Our place in the world economy is the total of the two
I was trying to trip Bod up.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Of these 45% of exports, what proportion goes to the EU and what tariff
will be imposed on it in a hard Brexit
Less than 10%
Lower than the effect on prices of the fall in the pound
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and how many of the 2.7M will be laid off because the sales lost as a
result of the increased price / reduced profit?
why will there necessarily be any lost sales?
The tariff, the tariff applied to incoming raw materials used to
manufacture most things,
only if we chose to impose one
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Post by R. Mark Clayton
firms moving production UK -> EU
how does that help a company that sells 80% of its stuff in the UK and 20%
in the EU

They will just replace one problem with another

and the idea that they medium sized companies might set up factories in both
jurisdictions is laughable

tim
R. Mark Clayton
2017-11-08 19:01:55 UTC
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SNIP
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The tariff, the tariff applied to incoming raw materials used to
manufacture most things,
only if we chose to impose one
I don't think WTO works quite like that.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
firms moving production UK -> EU
how does that help a company that sells 80% of its stuff in the UK and 20%
in the EU
Oh you mean like Ford, GM. Nissan, Toyota, Mini even, oh but wait 90% of the EU market is in the EU and only 10% in the UK... oops

Even for little widget maker co. ltd. losing half their EU custom due to taxes loaded on their prices - well that 10% off their turnover - 10% less employees required.
Post by tim
They will just replace one problem with another
and the idea that they medium sized companies might set up factories in both
jurisdictions is laughable
No they will just lose business. Big business will move.
Post by tim
tim
tim
2017-11-08 19:07:15 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The tariff, the tariff applied to incoming raw materials used to
manufacture most things,
only if we chose to impose one
I don't think WTO works quite like that.
it works exactly like that

WTO tariffs are maximums that a country can impose on its imports

It's free to impious any lesser amount it chooses (as long as it doesn't do
that in a way that discriminates where the good come from)
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
It is not going to be "loads" is it
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
firms moving production UK -> EU
how does that help a company that sells 80% of its stuff in the UK and 20%
in the EU
Oh you mean like Ford, GM. Nissan, Toyota, Mini even, oh but wait 90% of
the EU market is in the EU and only 10% in the UK... oops
This is a special sector which will not doubt have problems, and solution
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Even for little widget maker co. ltd. losing half their EU custom due to
taxes loaded on their prices - well that 10% off their turnover - 10% less
employees required.
and 10% spare capacity that they can use to look for new markets
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
They will just replace one problem with another
and the idea that they medium sized companies might set up factories in both
jurisdictions is laughable
No they will just lose business. Big business will move.
I bet you they wont (more than they have been doing in the past)

tim
R. Mark Clayton
2017-11-09 10:24:31 UTC
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SNIP
Post by tim
it works exactly like that
WTO tariffs are maximums that a country can impose on its imports
It's free to impious any lesser amount it chooses (as long as it doesn't do
that in a way that discriminates where the good come from)
If you don't impose reciprocal tariffs (or simply continue with our existing free trade agreement inside the EU) then domestic producers will be at a disadvantage. Obviously some goods like tea, coffee, cocoa, wine etc. only have nominal production in the UK, so zero tariffs on these would be fine.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
It is not going to be "loads" is it
Maybe not for big companies, but for small ones it is going to make exporting uneconomic.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
firms moving production UK -> EU
how does that help a company that sells 80% of its stuff in the UK and 20%
in the EU
Oh you mean like Ford, GM. Nissan, Toyota, Mini even, oh but wait 90% of
the EU market is in the EU and only 10% in the UK... oops
This is a special sector which will not doubt have problems, and solution
like electronics, aircraft manufacture, indeed just about anything complicated.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Even for little widget maker co. ltd. losing half their EU custom due to
taxes loaded on their prices - well that 10% off their turnover - 10% less
employees required.
and 10% spare capacity that they can use to look for new markets
in an ideal world, but it ain't.
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
They will just replace one problem with another
and the idea that they medium sized companies might set up factories in both
jurisdictions is laughable
No they will just lose business. Big business will move.
I bet you they wont (more than they have been doing in the past)
Watch and weep, especially if DD deliberately screws up the negotiations - I think he secretly wants no deal and that is why progress is moluscine even on the three straightforward basic items to be sorted out first.
Post by tim
tim
tim...
2017-11-09 15:11:11 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by tim
it works exactly like that
WTO tariffs are maximums that a country can impose on its imports
It's free to impious any lesser amount it chooses (as long as it doesn't do
that in a way that discriminates where the good come from)
If you don't impose reciprocal tariffs (or simply continue with our
existing free trade agreement inside the EU) then domestic producers will
be at a disadvantage. Obviously some goods like tea, coffee, cocoa, wine
etc. only have nominal production in the UK, so zero tariffs on these
would be fine.
I don't need a lesson in economic thank you very much

your assumption that I don't know this is completely FALSE

we are discussing how the rules can operate. nothing more
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
It is not going to be "loads" is it
Maybe not for big companies, but for small ones it is going to make exporting uneconomic.
I've got a friend who runs a "small" company that exports to ROW

I asked him how much aggro the rules for exporting to these countries was,
and his answer "none at all"

It's (apparently) like many things that you never done before, difficult
until you put the effort into learning, but trivial once you have
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
firms moving production UK -> EU
how does that help a company that sells 80% of its stuff in the UK and 20%
in the EU
Oh you mean like Ford, GM. Nissan, Toyota, Mini even, oh but wait 90% of
the EU market is in the EU and only 10% in the UK... oops
This is a special sector which will not doubt have problems, and solution
like electronics, aircraft manufacture, indeed just about anything complicated.
aircraft components are tariff free . There will be no tariffs applied as
we ship these things across borders

tim
pamela
2017-11-09 17:36:40 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by tim
it works exactly like that
WTO tariffs are maximums that a country can impose on its
imports
It's free to impious any lesser amount it chooses (as long as it doesn't do
that in a way that discriminates where the good come from)
If you don't impose reciprocal tariffs (or simply continue with
our existing free trade agreement inside the EU) then domestic
producers will be at a disadvantage. Obviously some goods like
tea, coffee, cocoa, wine etc. only have nominal production in
the UK, so zero tariffs on these would be fine.
I don't need a lesson in economic thank you very much
your assumption that I don't know this is completely FALSE
we are discussing how the rules can operate. nothing more
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
It is not going to be "loads" is it
Maybe not for big companies, but for small ones it is going to make exporting uneconomic.
I've got a friend who runs a "small" company that exports to ROW
I asked him how much aggro the rules for exporting to these
countries was, and his answer "none at all"
It's (apparently) like many things that you never done before,
difficult until you put the effort into learning, but trivial
once you have
I have a friend exporting to most countries in Europe including
Russia, Albania and various overlooked places. He too has little
trouble with the rules..... but that's because he uses an export
agent.

He needs an agent because the rules for exporting outside the EU
are messy, they can change quickly, paperwork requirements can be
bureaucratic, someone needs a backhander, border customs guards
needs "samples", etc.
tim...
2017-11-09 19:35:24 UTC
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Post by pamela
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by tim
it works exactly like that
WTO tariffs are maximums that a country can impose on its
imports
It's free to impious any lesser amount it chooses (as long as it doesn't do
that in a way that discriminates where the good come from)
If you don't impose reciprocal tariffs (or simply continue with
our existing free trade agreement inside the EU) then domestic
producers will be at a disadvantage. Obviously some goods like
tea, coffee, cocoa, wine etc. only have nominal production in
the UK, so zero tariffs on these would be fine.
I don't need a lesson in economic thank you very much
your assumption that I don't know this is completely FALSE
we are discussing how the rules can operate. nothing more
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by tim
Post by R. Mark Clayton
regulatory compliance, customs compliance,
This could be difficult for some, but for most wont be
Or they will have to pay loads to customs forwarders.
It is not going to be "loads" is it
Maybe not for big companies, but for small ones it is going to
make exporting uneconomic.
I've got a friend who runs a "small" company that exports to ROW
I asked him how much aggro the rules for exporting to these
countries was, and his answer "none at all"
It's (apparently) like many things that you never done before,
difficult until you put the effort into learning, but trivial
once you have
I have a friend exporting to most countries in Europe including
Russia, Albania and various overlooked places. He too has little
trouble with the rules..... but that's because he uses an export
agent.
He needs an agent because the rules for exporting outside the EU
are messy, they can change quickly, paperwork requirements can be
bureaucratic, someone needs a backhander, border customs guards
needs "samples", etc.
My friend makes components that go into other things, which I suspect is
common with many of the companies that Mark is saying will have problems

And where that is the case, the company that you are supplying have an
interest in making sure that you understand the paperwork, and customs
officials would have little use for a crate load of rubber widgets, even if
they did try to extort them from you

tim

James Wilkinson Sword
2017-11-09 16:26:32 UTC
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Manufacturing contributes =A36.7tn to the global economy. Contrary to
widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK current=
ly
the world's ninth largest industrial nation. Manufacturing makes up 10=
%
of GVA and 45% of UK exports, and directly employs 2.7 million people.=
https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
It's surprising anyone buys anything from us. Next to China and Italy,=
our stuff is fucking unreliable.

-- =

The average dishcloth contains 3 million times as many bacteria as the a=
verage toilet seat.
The Peeler
2017-11-09 19:03:30 UTC
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 16:26:32 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
It's surprising anyone buys anything from us. Next to China and Italy,
our stuff is fucking unreliable.
"Us", "our", AGAIN, you prize idiot? From what I've seen, every half-way
intelligent Brit considers you an abnormal idiot! LOL
--
More details from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic
"life":
"When I were a lad, I was a vegetarian and my friend wasn't. But I broke
the necks of the rabbits we caught and he couldn't bring himself to. Yet he
would eat the result and I wouldn't. Very odd."
MID: <***@red.lan>
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