Airbus plans UK job cuts amid fears of hard Brexit impact

[MM]

The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/

The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.

It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.

MM

[Ian Jackson]

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-am
id-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

I'm just listening to James o'Brien, and he reckons that this situation
is probably just one of many - but that some firms (possibly with a
little government 'persuasion') are reluctant to make too many obvious
waves at the moment.

[Tim Woodall]

Post by Ian Jackson

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-am
id-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

I'm just listening to James o'Brien, and he reckons that this situation
is probably just one of many - but that some firms (possibly with a
little government 'persuasion') are reluctant to make too many obvious
waves at the moment.

I'm not convinced it's even that. Firms are spending millions to prepare
to relocate business to EU entities. Those costs are sunk, it makes zero
difference whether brexit happens or not. The only way firms will stop
that spending is if brexit is called off. By the time brexit is called
off (if it is which I doubt) all the spending will be done and the only
remaining question for the companies will be 'will we make more profit
if we flip the switch or not?' and they will have a lot of leverage over
the government to get sweeteners not to switch. 'That 20bn for the NHS
ain't going to be paid by us'

And the government is well aware. The Airbus warning might be the
headline, but the business secretary is talking about making sure firms
can repatriate profits back to the UK and send staff to visit customers
in the EU.

The profit switch will happen on brexit day (or whenever it becones
legally necessary.) I doubt it will happen before, companies are located
in the UK for a reason and don't want to change. But companies are
getting ready to do it.

Staff relocation will take much longer. Initially at least, at the
worst, companies will buy visas (or whatever is required) and will
relocate jobs as and when it makes financial sense.

Even if the 'no deal' brexit meant Airbus had to shutdown UK
manufacturing on day 1, the EU will (almost certainly) give some sort of
exception to allow them, say, 5 years to relocate. It would require a
unanimous vote of the E27 - but there's enough work involved that
they'll find some sort of compromise. For the most part, it's pretty
easy for the service industries to relocate. The majority of their staff
are not 'customer facing' and so they can relocate legally while
delaying the relocation of staff. The EU may well put pressure on to
relocate the back office roles but it will be gradual.

[Yellow]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:32:04 +0100, Ian Jackson

Post by Ian Jackson
I'm just listening to James o'Brien, and he reckons that this situation
is probably just one of many - but that some firms (possibly with a
little government 'persuasion') are reluctant to make too many obvious
waves at the moment.

Given that his main hobby-horses is that what he knows is true because
he has facts and figures and expert opinion on his side, while all that
people who want to leave the EU have is a bunch of beliefs on the back
of xenophobia and stupidity - that is hilarious.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.

For years and months before the referendum the polls show a healthy majority to remain, during the campaign fake promises of billions for the NHS and whipped up scare stories about floods of third world and eastern European migrants resulted in a small majority to leave.

Post by MM
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

No chance - we are all going to have to pay dearly for Brexit.

[Vidcapper]

Post by R. Mark Clayton
No chance - we are all going to have to pay dearly for Brexit.

You're two years too late for Project Fear...

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Vidcapper

Post by R. Mark Clayton
No chance - we are all going to have to pay dearly for Brexit.

You're two years too late for Project Fear...

When did that end? :-)

[Norman Wells]

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could

Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Post by MM
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/

'for the first time' eh? Listening to you prattling on for the last two
years, you'd think it must be the umpteenth.

Anyway, care to tell us how you think a second referendum is going to
come about? It's certainly not the government's policy, nor is it, as
far as anyone can tell, Labour's either.

It is of course backbencher Chuka Umunna's and the LibDems', but I don't
know when you think they'll be elected as a majority government. Can
you perhaps give us some indication?

In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU negotiations.
It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and dusted by the
time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which time any attempt
to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Post by MM
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.

But it won't. You see, we had a very big opinion poll on 23 June 2016,
much fairer and bigger than Good Morning Britain (whatever that is) can
ever organise, and that was decisive.

Post by MM
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air,

Best not waste it then, but to follow through with the agreed policy.

Post by MM
and I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.

No. We're all in this together now. That nice Mr Cameron said so.

[The Todal]

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU negotiations.
 It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and dusted by the
time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which time any attempt
to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?

The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit. The EU will want us back in the
fold. Our industries will want us back in the fold. Eventually a huge
majority of the electorate will want us back in the fold.

Boris Johnson will support whatever policies will maximise his chances
of becoming Prime Minister.

It's pretty clear that sooner or later Brexit will be reversed. It may
be in five or ten years, and we'll be in a "transitional" period until
then.

[Norman Wells]

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and
dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which
time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

Post by The Todal
The EU will want us back in the
fold. Our industries will want us back in the fold. Eventually a huge
majority of the electorate will want us back in the fold.

And in a generation's time maybe they'll have an option to vote on it.

Post by The Todal
Boris Johnson will support whatever policies will maximise his chances
of becoming Prime Minister.

So, you're relying on him now to change sides and become an ardent
Remainer are you?

Crikey, you must be desperate.

Post by The Todal
It's pretty clear that sooner or later Brexit will be reversed. It may
be in five or ten years, and we'll be in a "transitional" period until
then.

Well, it won't and can't be a simple reversal. If it happens, it will
have to be by way of an application to re-join, with all the problems of
having to take the Euro as our currency and sign up to Schengen, with no
rebate.

Good luck with that!

[The Todal]

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done
and dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by
which time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late,
won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option.  We'll have left.  It's
in the rules.

We won't have left. We'll be in a transitional phase.

Post by The Todal
The EU will want us back in the fold. Our industries will want us back
in the fold. Eventually a huge majority of the electorate will want us
back in the fold.

And in a generation's time maybe they'll have an option to vote on it.

There's no need for another referendum.

Post by The Todal
Boris Johnson will support whatever policies will maximise his chances
of becoming Prime Minister.

So, you're relying on him now to change sides and become an ardent
Remainer are you?
Crikey, you must be desperate.

He has changed sides on the topic several times over the years. Crikey,
you must be unable to read newspapers.

Post by The Todal
It's pretty clear that sooner or later Brexit will be reversed. It may
be in five or ten years, and we'll be in a "transitional" period until
then.

Well, it won't and can't be a simple reversal.  If it happens, it will
have to be by way of an application to re-join, with all the problems of
having to take the Euro as our currency and sign up to Schengen, with no
rebate.
Good luck with that!

That's just scaremongering, Norman. That's Project Fear. Crikey, you
must be desperate. Why don't you add "they won't let us back in unless
we abolish Parliament"?

We'll be allowed to reverse Brexit and pay the necessary financial
penalty for shitting in their bed.

[Bod]

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done
and dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by
which time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late,
won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier
than the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option.  We'll have left.
It's in the rules.

We won't have left. We'll be in a transitional phase.

Post by The Todal
The EU will want us back in the fold. Our industries will want us
back in the fold. Eventually a huge majority of the electorate will
want us back in the fold.

And in a generation's time maybe they'll have an option to vote on it.

There's no need for another referendum.

Post by The Todal
Boris Johnson will support whatever policies will maximise his
chances of becoming Prime Minister.

So, you're relying on him now to change sides and become an ardent
Remainer are you?
Crikey, you must be desperate.

He has changed sides on the topic several times over the years. Crikey,
you must be unable to read newspapers.

Post by The Todal
It's pretty clear that sooner or later Brexit will be reversed. It
may be in five or ten years, and we'll be in a "transitional" period
until then.

Well, it won't and can't be a simple reversal.  If it happens, it will
have to be by way of an application to re-join, with all the problems
of having to take the Euro as our currency and sign up to Schengen,
with no rebate.
Good luck with that!

That's just scaremongering, Norman. That's Project Fear. Crikey, you
must be desperate. Why don't you add "they won't let us back in unless
we abolish Parliament"?
We'll be allowed to reverse Brexit and pay the necessary financial
penalty for shitting in their bed.
Yup, it's just propaganda.

[Norman Wells]

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done
and dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by
which time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late,
won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier
than the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option.  We'll have left.
It's in the rules.

We won't have left. We'll be in a transitional phase.

We will have left. The transitional phase comes in after we've left.

Treaties cease to apply to the UK by default two years after the Article
50 notification, ie at 11pm on 29 March 2019.

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
The EU will want us back in the fold. Our industries will want us
back in the fold. Eventually a huge majority of the electorate will
want us back in the fold.

And in a generation's time maybe they'll have an option to vote on it.

There's no need for another referendum.

Absolutely right, but I don't rule one out sometime after a generation
has passed.

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Boris Johnson will support whatever policies will maximise his
chances of becoming Prime Minister.

So, you're relying on him now to change sides and become an ardent
Remainer are you?
Crikey, you must be desperate.

He has changed sides on the topic several times over the years. Crikey,
you must be unable to read newspapers.

If you think he's going to do a reverse ferret on Brexit, though, you're
absolutely delusional.

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
It's pretty clear that sooner or later Brexit will be reversed. It
may be in five or ten years, and we'll be in a "transitional" period
until then.

Well, it won't and can't be a simple reversal.  If it happens, it will
have to be by way of an application to re-join, with all the problems
of having to take the Euro as our currency and sign up to Schengen,
with no rebate.
Good luck with that!

That's just scaremongering, Norman. That's Project Fear. Crikey, you
must be desperate. Why don't you add "they won't let us back in unless
we abolish Parliament"?
We'll be allowed to reverse Brexit and pay the necessary financial
penalty for shitting in their bed.

After March 2019, there's no mechanism for doing that, though. We will
have left.

[MM]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and
dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which
time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

BRINO.

There! Fixed it for ya!

MM

[Norman Wells]

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and
dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which
time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

BRINO.
There! Fixed it for ya!

What does that entail exactly? And will you be happy with it?

[MM]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and
dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which
time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

BRINO.
There! Fixed it for ya!

What does that entail exactly? And will you be happy with it?

As long as you're unhappy with it, I shall be ecstatic.

MM

[Norman Wells]

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with getting
it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with the EU
negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all going to be done and
dusted by the time of the next general election, ie in 2022, by which
time any attempt to reverse the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far easier than
the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

BRINO.
There! Fixed it for ya!

What does that entail exactly? And will you be happy with it?

As long as you're unhappy with it, I shall be ecstatic.

What does it entail exactly? Or don't you know?

[pensive hamster]

[...]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells
Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have left. It's
in the rules.

BRINO.
There! Fixed it for ya!

What does that entail exactly? And will you be happy with it?

As long as you're unhappy with it, I shall be ecstatic.

What does it entail exactly? Or don't you know?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-hard-soft-boris-johnson-theresa-may-article-50-brexchosis-a8221566.html

Brexicon: A full dictionary of Brexit-related jargon ...

Brino: “Brexit in name only”. Coinage devised by Jacob Rees-Mogg,
chair of the European Research Group of Conservative MPs. In an
interview in January 2018 he declared: “If everything is delayed for
two years and then there’s high alignment you will find that by 2022
no one will have noticed any difference from having left. Then what
will be the point of voting for the party that’s implemented it. I’m
against ‘Brino’.”

[pamela]

Post by Norman Wells

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 10:56:56 +0100, Norman Wells

Post by Norman Wells

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:08:06 +0100, Norman Wells

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells
In the meantime, the government is progressing serenely with
getting it's Brexit legislation through Parliament and with
the EU negotiations.   It certainly looks as if it's all
going to be done and dusted by the time of the next general
election, ie in 2022, by which time any attempt to reverse
the decision will be a bit late, won't it?

Why on earth would it be a bit late?
The process of cancelling Brexit is always going to be far
easier than the process of implementing Brexit.

Come March 2019, cancelling won't be an option. We'll have
left. It's in the rules.

BRINO.
There! Fixed it for ya!

What does that entail exactly? And will you be happy with it?

As long as you're unhappy with it, I shall be ecstatic.

What does it entail exactly? Or don't you know?

Try here: http://google.com

[MM]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could
Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Why would Airbus, and now BMW, say it if they didn't mean it? Stock
markets would not take kindly to companies who were simply crying
wolf.

MM

[Ian Jackson]

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-
amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could
Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Why would Airbus, and now BMW, say it if they didn't mean it? Stock
markets would not take kindly to companies who were simply crying
wolf.

I was listening to this morning's Radio 4 'Today' programme, live from
the Great Exhibition of the North.
https://getnorth2018.com/
Martha Kearney was in the chair, and two of her guests were
representatives of Tyneside businesses. One was from Siemens - who
employ about 1000 in the area. Unfortunately, I didn't catch what the
other guy was.

They discussed the possible impact of Brexit on North East business, and
the Siemens guy (predictably, I suppose) was very concerned about
cross-border supply chain problems. The other guy, when the Airbus was
mentioned, more-or-less dismissed the problem, and blithely said that
one solution would for us to go-it-alone, and produce our own version.

Now I know that Tyneside and the North East has its own special
character - but I never realised it was (at least for some) in its own
parallel universe.

[Norman Wells]

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could
Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Why would Airbus, and now BMW, say it if they didn't mean it?

Some say it's because Spreadsheet Phil leant on them.

[MM]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could
Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Why would Airbus, and now BMW, say it if they didn't mean it?

Some say it's because Spreadsheet Phil leant on them.

Got any cite at all to back up that allegation?

MM

[Fredxx]

Post by MM

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact

... could ... if ... could
Do you understand conditionals hedged round with provisos?

Why would Airbus, and now BMW, say it if they didn't mean it? Stock
markets would not take kindly to companies who were simply crying
wolf.

Sometimes it a good idea to suck up to your paymasters:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44120525

$22b pays for an awful lot of loyalty.

[harry]

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

Why the airbus threat to decamp from UK is fake news/bollox.
You only have to think about it for two minutes.
Unique and vital components are made in the UK (the wings) for every single airbus.
Airbus is struggling already as the A380 concept is now duff/obsolete and being sold in ever decreasing numbers.(almost zero in fact) as the new twin engine wide body airliners come in. Cheaper to build, run and maintain.
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really think the workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or wherever? Alternatively, where do they think they can round up 14,000 skilled workers at the drop of a hat? Africa?

This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is the massive disruption/expense such a move would entail. The announcement is just to put pressure on politicians in order to get the Brexit result they want.

[pensive hamster]

On Friday, 22 June 2018 18:08:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
[...]

Post by harry
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really
think the workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or
wherever? Alternatively, where do they think they can round up
14,000 skilled workers at the drop of a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is
the massive disruption/expense such a move would entail. The
announcement is just to put pressure on politicians in order to
get the Brexit result they want.

What sort of Brexit result do you suppose the 14,000 skilled workers
who stand to lose their jobs want? Are they traitors and enemies of
democracy?

[Ian Jackson]

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by harry
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really
think the workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or
wherever? Alternatively, where do they think they can round up
14,000 skilled workers at the drop of a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is
the massive disruption/expense such a move would entail. The
announcement is just to put pressure on politicians in order to
get the Brexit result they want.

What sort of Brexit result do you suppose the 14,000 skilled workers
who stand to lose their jobs want? Are they traitors and enemies of
democracy?

It's no good the Brexiteers keeping on saying "These Project Fear
predictions are simply not going to happen". It's looking increasing
likely that it will indeed be 'Brexit - regardless of the consequences'.

[Ian Jackson]

Post by Ian Jackson

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by harry
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really
think the workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or
wherever? Alternatively, where do they think they can round up
14,000 skilled workers at the drop of a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is
the massive disruption/expense such a move would entail. The
announcement is just to put pressure on politicians in order to
get the Brexit result they want.

What sort of Brexit result do you suppose the 14,000 skilled workers
who stand to lose their jobs want? Are they traitors and enemies of
democracy?

It's no good the Brexiteers keeping on saying "These Project Fear
predictions are simply not going to happen". It's looking increasing
likely that it will indeed be 'Brexit - regardless of the consequences'.

And just listen to this guy:

James o'Brien even questions if he is real.

[Yellow]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:43:37 +0100, Ian Jackson

Post by Ian Jackson

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by harry
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really
think the workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or
wherever? Alternatively, where do they think they can round up
14,000 skilled workers at the drop of a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is
the massive disruption/expense such a move would entail. The
announcement is just to put pressure on politicians in order to
get the Brexit result they want.

What sort of Brexit result do you suppose the 14,000 skilled workers
who stand to lose their jobs want? Are they traitors and enemies of
democracy?

It's no good the Brexiteers keeping on saying "These Project Fear
predictions are simply not going to happen". It's looking increasing
likely that it will indeed be 'Brexit - regardless of the consequences'.

You want to stay in the EU regardless of the consequences so are hardly
in a position to criticise.

[Ophelia]

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

Why the airbus threat to decamp from UK is fake news/bollox.
You only have to think about it for two minutes.
Unique and vital components are made in the UK (the wings) for every single
airbus.
Airbus is struggling already as the A380 concept is now duff/obsolete and
being sold in ever decreasing numbers.(almost zero in fact) as the new twin
engine wide body airliners come in. Cheaper to build, run and maintain.
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really think the
workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or wherever? Alternatively,
where do they think they can round up 14,000 skilled workers at the drop of
a hat? Africa?

This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is the massive
disruption/expense such a move would entail. The announcement is just to
put pressure on politicians in order to get the Brexit result they want.

===

I don't know how true it is but today on Any Answers, a woman said that the
company was owned by French and German government shareholders!

Nobody argued against it.

[harry]

Post by harry

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

Why the airbus threat to decamp from UK is fake news/bollox.
You only have to think about it for two minutes.
Unique and vital components are made in the UK (the wings) for every single airbus.
Airbus is struggling already as the A380 concept is now duff/obsolete and
being sold in ever decreasing numbers.(almost zero in fact) as the new twin
engine wide body airliners come in. Cheaper to build, run and maintain.
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really think the
workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or wherever? Alternatively,
where do they think they can round up 14,000 skilled workers at the drop of
a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is the massive
disruption/expense such a move would entail. The announcement is just to
put pressure on politicians in order to get the Brexit result they want.
===
I don't know how true it is but today on Any Answers, a woman said that the
company was owned by French and German government shareholders!
Nobody argued against it.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Airbus-owned-by-France-and-Germany

[Ophelia]

Post by harry

Post by MM
The biggest news this morning on the economic front is that Airbus is
now warning that it could pull its operations out of Britain if there
is continued uncertainty over Brexit. This could affect the jobs of
its 14,000 direct employees, plus impact upon a further 100,000 jobs
in ancilliary supply companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact
Also today, ITV's flagship breakfast programme, Good Morning Britain,
reports that its latest opinion poll has found for the first time that
more people in Britain now want to stay in the EU.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-22/poll-shows-support-for-second-eu-referendum/
The support for staying in is growing week by week as Brexiters become
increasingly strident and belligerent. I reckon by the autumn it will
be apparent from *every* opinion poll that a significant majority of
people now wishes to remain, which leaves plenty of time till March
2019 for the government to pull the plug on the whole idea.
It will have cost the country billions for all the wasted hot air, and
I reckon when the chancellor is talking about tax rises to pay for
Theresa May's NHS bonanza, which ISN'T going to be funded by any
Brexit dividend, since there isn't one, then Hammond needs to raise a
specific tax payable only by Brexiters, so they pay back what they've
cost the nation.
MM

Why the airbus threat to decamp from UK is fake news/bollox.
You only have to think about it for two minutes.
Unique and vital components are made in the UK (the wings) for every single
airbus.
Airbus is struggling already as the A380 concept is now duff/obsolete and
being sold in ever decreasing numbers.(almost zero in fact) as the new twin
engine wide body airliners come in. Cheaper to build, run and maintain.
So lets say they move production elsewhere. Do they really think the
workforce is going to meekly move to Deutschland or wherever?
Alternatively,
where do they think they can round up 14,000 skilled workers at the drop of
a hat? Africa?
This is a struggling concern, the last thing they can afford is the massive
disruption/expense such a move would entail. The announcement is just to
put pressure on politicians in order to get the Brexit result they want.
===
I don't know how true it is but today on Any Answers, a woman said that the
company was owned by French and German government shareholders!
Nobody argued against it.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Airbus-owned-by-France-and-Germany

==

Thanks:)

[pensive hamster]

[...]

Post by harry

Post by Ophelia
I don't know how true it is but today on Any Answers, a woman said that the
company was owned by French and German government shareholders!
Nobody argued against it.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Airbus-owned-by-France-and-Germany

Is Airbus owned by France and Germany?
1 Answer, Jobst von Steinsdorff, German

'No. Airbus Group SE, formerly (until 2014) EADS and founded as a
conglomerate has been created by mergers of various Europen air
and space companies. While many of these companies had strong
public ownership groups, EADS already went public at its inception
and has been held by mostly private sector investors ever since
(France being its biggest shareholder with 15% back then).

'Public ownership of EADS with some ups and downs reduced,
however state sponsored investment entities of France, Germany
and Spain held slightly more than 50% at one point. As of 2012
these entities have reduced their holding massively, so French and
German public ownership is about 11% each, Spanish ownership
at about 4%, so aggregate public ownership is below 30% now,
the rest is privately owned free float.'