Discussion:
Charged under Road Traffic Act 1988 s144 (looking for advice)
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j***@gmail.com
2017-05-11 01:19:14 UTC
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Hi Everybody

I wondering whether to plead not guilty.

At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.

I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.

tia
Nick
2017-05-11 07:37:26 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
How was the car scrapped? Did you get a certificate of destruction?

I guess you didn't inform the DVLA of the scrapping?
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-11 14:56:15 UTC
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Post by Nick
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
How was the car scrapped? Did you get a certificate of destruction?
I guess you didn't inform the DVLA of the scrapping?
Hi Nick

I just looked in the yellow pages and phoned up a car scrapping company. They came round and picked up the car from my home. I definitely did not get a certificate of destruction.

However I do have a memory of sending the DVLA something in the post. Telling them that the car had been scrapped. Perhaps this was part of the log book or something like that. Some kind of document that I got when buying the car. I think it was a green bit of paper which you had to tear along the dotted line and send off.

Does this make any sense?
Nick
2017-05-12 10:58:28 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Nick
I just looked in the yellow pages and phoned up a car scrapping company. They came round and picked up the car from my home. I definitely did not get a certificate of destruction.
However I do have a memory of sending the DVLA something in the post. Telling them that the car had been scrapped. Perhaps this was part of the log book or something like that. Some kind of document that I got when buying the car. I think it was a green bit of paper which you had to tear along the dotted line and send off.
Does this make any sense?
It sounds familiar. I scrapped a car a few years ago, I remember being
worried about something or other at the time, but nothing came of it.

Looks like there is an online form, to tell the DVLA.

<https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle/y/no/scrapped-it-or-it-s-been-written-off>

I would try to contact the DVLA directly.
Jeff
2017-05-11 08:07:54 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
If you were charged under S. 144, then you may have a case; my reading
is that S.144 only details exemptions to S.143, so there is nothing to
charge you with under that section.

Also, if you were actually charged under S.143, then if you were no
longer the owner, regardless of whether it was scrapped or not you may
still have a case.

A few more details of the circumstances would help.


Jeff
GB
2017-05-11 08:51:51 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
If the facts are as you stated, why would you plead guilty?




143 Users of motor vehicles to be insured or secured against third-party
risks.

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act—

(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road [F1or other public
place] unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by
that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of
third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this
Act, and

(b)a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor
vehicle on a road [F2or other public place] unless there is in force in
relation to the use of the vehicle by that other person such a policy of
insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies
with the requirements of this Part of this Act.

(2)If a person acts in contravention of subsection (1) above he is
guilty of an offence.

(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this
section shall not be convicted if he proves—

(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession
under a contract of hiring or of loan,

(b)that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and

(c)that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in
force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security
as is mentioned in subsection (1) above.
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-11 15:03:41 UTC
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Post by GB
(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this
section shall not be convicted if he proves—
(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession
under a contract of hiring or of loan,
How could this be proved? I can't remember the name of the company that scrapped the car.
GB
2017-05-11 15:47:17 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by GB
(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this
section shall not be convicted if he proves—
(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession
under a contract of hiring or of loan,
How could this be proved? I can't remember the name of the company that scrapped the car.
How did they pay you?

I suggest doing an online search and seeing whether any of the local
firms' names ring a bell.

You don't need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. But something a
bit more than just a vague recollection. You should check with DVLA
whether they received the change of owner form you sent them, and if so
when.

In any case, that's the wrong bit of the act you are quoting. The right
bit is:

"(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road ....." or "(b)a
person must not cause or permit any other person ....."

Assuming police found someone driving the car, they should have
ascertained who it was. To a large extent, it's up to the CPS to prove
it was you driving or you gave your consent to someone else driving.
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-11 19:17:07 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by GB
(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this
section shall not be convicted if he proves—
(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession
under a contract of hiring or of loan,
How could this be proved? I can't remember the name of the company that scrapped the car.
How did they pay you?
I suggest doing an online search and seeing whether any of the local
firms' names ring a bell.
They paid £40 or £50 cash.

I can easily go back to the yellow pages and phone up the local firms. There wasn't too many if I recall. I should be able to find the one that scrapped the car (if I could just give them a reg plate over the phone and they check the computer). Perhaps I could get them to send me something in writing.
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-11 19:19:08 UTC
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Post by GB
Assuming police found someone driving the car, they should have
ascertained who it was. To a large extent, it's up to the CPS to prove
it was you driving or you gave your consent to someone else driving.
I don't think there is any police involvement. The charge seems to have come straight from the DVLA.
GB
2017-05-11 20:09:57 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by GB
Assuming police found someone driving the car, they should have
ascertained who it was. To a large extent, it's up to the CPS to prove
it was you driving or you gave your consent to someone else driving.
I don't think there is any police involvement. The charge seems to have come straight from the DVLA.
There's something very wrong here.
Jeff
2017-05-12 11:37:50 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by GB
Assuming police found someone driving the car, they should have
ascertained who it was. To a large extent, it's up to the CPS to prove
it was you driving or you gave your consent to someone else driving.
I don't think there is any police involvement. The charge seems to have come straight from the DVLA.
Please give some exact details of what has actually occurred, we are all
guessing here.

What does it actually say on the paperwork that you have received?

Jeff
Graham T
2017-05-11 19:36:24 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by GB
(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this
section shall not be convicted if he proves—
(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession
under a contract of hiring or of loan,
How could this be proved? I can't remember the name of the company that scrapped the car.
How did they pay you?
I suggest doing an online search and seeing whether any of the local
firms' names ring a bell.
You don't need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. But something a
bit more than just a vague recollection. You should check with DVLA
whether they received the change of owner form you sent them, and if so
when.
If you give/sell the car to a dealer there is no form to send off.
Post by GB
In any case, that's the wrong bit of the act you are quoting. The right
"(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road ....." or "(b)a
person must not cause or permit any other person ....."
Assuming police found someone driving the car, they should have
ascertained who it was. To a large extent, it's up to the CPS to prove
it was you driving or you gave your consent to someone else driving.
burfordTjustice
2017-05-11 12:24:34 UTC
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On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
Nick
2017-05-11 12:26:11 UTC
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Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-05-11 14:33:59 UTC
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Post by Nick
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
The Peeler
2017-05-11 15:45:32 UTC
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On Thu, 11 May 2017 07:33:59 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Nick
Post by burfordTjustice
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
Someone asked you, retard?
--
Dumb anal Razovic about herself:
"I’m King of the skatologists"
Message-ID: <0f834931-cd3c-4dbc-ab47-***@googlegroups.com>
Sick old pedo Andrew "Andrzej" Baron (aka "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe")
2017-05-11 21:01:12 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>,
a shiteating cowardly nazoid sub-louse PEDO named Andrew "Andrzej"
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
So why propose it, silly old pedo?
JNugent
2017-05-11 23:51:42 UTC
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On 11/05/2017 15:33, jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Nick
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
"No insurance" carries licence penalty points. It is not just a
financial trade-off, like a parking ticket or a FPN for having a
defective sidelight.


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jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-05-12 13:53:43 UTC
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Post by JNugent
On 11/05/2017 15:33, jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Nick
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
"No insurance" carries licence penalty points. It is not just a
financial trade-off, like a parking ticket or a FPN for having a
defective sidelight.
Three points which lapse after a few years? If you've got a clean
licence, that's no big deal.
The Peeler
2017-05-12 14:58:04 UTC
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On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:53:43 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by JNugent
"No insurance" carries licence penalty points. It is not just a
financial trade-off, like a parking ticket or a FPN for having a
defective sidelight.
Three points which lapse after a few years? If you've got a clean
licence, that's no big deal.
Are you ill, Razovic? No mention of shit, men's arses and foreskins yet in
this thread? Maybe you'd better see a doctor! <BG>
--
Anal Razovic about her life experience:
"all I can see is SHITE!"
MID: <***@4ax.com>
Sick old pedo Andrew "Andrzej" Baron (aka "Exorcist Missile")
2017-05-12 17:20:47 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>,
a shiteating cowardly nazoid sub-louse PEDO named Andrew "Andrzej"
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Three points which lapse after a few years?
"a few years", old pedo? How many??
JNugent
2017-05-14 00:59:36 UTC
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On 12/05/2017 14:53, jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by JNugent
On 11/05/2017 15:33, jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Nick
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi Everybody
I wondering whether to plead not guilty.
At the time of the offence the car was no longer in my possession. It
had been scrapped several weeks earlier and I cancelled the insurance.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts as to my response to the notice.
tia
See a solicitor
What good would that do?
It would cost more than the penalty and would keep the legal industry
rolling along.
"No insurance" carries licence penalty points. It is not just a
financial trade-off, like a parking ticket or a FPN for having a
defective sidelight.
Three points which lapse after a few years? If you've got a clean
licence, that's no big deal.
Whether it's a big deal is a matter of opinion.

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