Discussion:
Tories: Energy price Cap
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Judith
2017-10-11 09:54:03 UTC
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I recently contacted E.ON on behalf a friend. His contract (an Age Concern
special ) had come to an end: and he wanted to move to the cheapest available
contract for his gas and electricity.

I (eventually) spoke to an E.ON representative: I said that I wanted to know
based on his actual consumption this last year: what is the cheapest plan
available for the next year.

He said he could not tell me.

I queried this and was told I needed to chose either fixed or variable: I said
I did not mind - what was the cheapest. He could not tell me: I then had to
go through all the variable options - three in number - and all the fixed price
- two in number: asking each time what would the annual bill be on each of
these would be.

I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.

I could have sworn that Cameron and Mayhem have both said (after nicking the
idea from Labour) that they were going to insist the energy companies provided
clear and easily understandable tariffs so that people could actually see what
was the cheapest option for them.

Still : we're quite used to Tory promises followed by U-turns now.

Looks like we will have to wait (not long now) for the Labour Government to
sort this out
Martin Brown
2017-10-11 10:31:26 UTC
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Post by Judith
I recently contacted E.ON on behalf a friend. His contract (an Age Concern
special ) had come to an end: and he wanted to move to the cheapest available
contract for his gas and electricity.
I (eventually) spoke to an E.ON representative: I said that I wanted to know
based on his actual consumption this last year: what is the cheapest plan
available for the next year.
He said he could not tell me.
Probably not allowed to (even though I expect the software shows him).
You have to ask questions playing by the script rules.
Post by Judith
I queried this and was told I needed to chose either fixed or variable: I said
I did not mind - what was the cheapest. He could not tell me: I then had to
go through all the variable options - three in number - and all the fixed price
- two in number: asking each time what would the annual bill be on each of
these would be.
The whole thing is labyrinthine in its complexity. The price comparison
sites make assumptions that you will continue on the suckers variable
tariff. The whole object is to blind the consumer with useless "choice".
Mine was actually quite helpful but then I know how to play their game
it took nearly 40 minutes to enumerate all the possibilities.
Post by Judith
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
It is annoying that you cannot see the prevailing offers summarised in a
numerical table somewhere online. I don't trust the price comparison
sites to do it right or be up to date having the true latest offers.

I was only interested in tariffs without an early cancellation fee which
cut it down to a more manageable number.
Post by Judith
I could have sworn that Cameron and Mayhem have both said (after nicking the
idea from Labour) that they were going to insist the energy companies provided
clear and easily understandable tariffs so that people could actually see what
was the cheapest option for them.
Still : we're quite used to Tory promises followed by U-turns now.
Looks like we will have to wait (not long now) for the Labour Government to
sort this out
It may prove impossible to sort out since the suppliers have much to
gain by making it hard for customers to find their optimum tariff.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Yellow
2017-10-11 10:51:46 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I recently contacted E.ON on behalf a friend. His contract (an Age Concern
special ) had come to an end: and he wanted to move to the cheapest available
contract for his gas and electricity.
I (eventually) spoke to an E.ON representative: I said that I wanted to know
based on his actual consumption this last year: what is the cheapest plan
available for the next year.
He said he could not tell me.
Probably not allowed to (even though I expect the software shows him).
You have to ask questions playing by the script rules.
The problem they have is that a variable plan is just that so they are
not in a position to tell you what plan would be cheapest over the life
of the fixed plan, because the variable price may well change.

So you have to choose yourself.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I queried this and was told I needed to chose either fixed or variable: I said
I did not mind - what was the cheapest. He could not tell me: I then had to
go through all the variable options - three in number - and all the fixed price
- two in number: asking each time what would the annual bill be on each of
these would be.
The whole thing is labyrinthine in its complexity. The price comparison
sites make assumptions that you will continue on the suckers variable
tariff.
I found the comparison sites were useful to get me started but I then go
to each individual supplier and used their sites directly.
Post by Martin Brown
The whole object is to blind the consumer with useless "choice".
Mine was actually quite helpful but then I know how to play their game
it took nearly 40 minutes to enumerate all the possibilities.
40 minutes? OK, we are clearly different people as I tend to devote a
good few hours to a task like checking energy prices, as I would for
insurance or looking for a new savings account for example.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
It is annoying that you cannot see the prevailing offers summarised in a
numerical table somewhere online. I don't trust the price comparison
sites to do it right or be up to date having the true latest offers.
But you can! All suppliers have their exact tariffs on their sites,
along with exit fees.
Post by Martin Brown
I was only interested in tariffs without an early cancellation fee which
cut it down to a more manageable number.
In my experience, most fixed tariffs have an exit fee unless you move to
another plan with the same supplier. It is also my experience that fixed
plans without exit fees are more expensive than those that do.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I could have sworn that Cameron and Mayhem have both said (after nicking the
idea from Labour) that they were going to insist the energy companies provided
clear and easily understandable tariffs so that people could actually see what
was the cheapest option for them.
Still : we're quite used to Tory promises followed by U-turns now.
Looks like we will have to wait (not long now) for the Labour Government to
sort this out
It may prove impossible to sort out since the suppliers have much to
gain by making it hard for customers to find their optimum tariff.
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
Judith
2017-10-11 11:28:14 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:51:46 +0100, Yellow <***@none.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.

There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.

This would of course make a very easy comparison for the majority of the people
- and they could see I will pay £x with company A - and £y with company B. You
could of course still discuss other options if the "standard" ones were not for
you.

For some reason the Tory government seem very reluctant to force such a thing
on the energy companies.
Yellow
2017-10-11 12:03:39 UTC
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Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.

If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.

So it matters, how much power you use.

Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
Post by Judith
This would of course make a very easy comparison for the majority of the people
- and they could see I will pay £x with company A - and £y with company B. You
could of course still discuss other options if the "standard" ones were not for
you.
As I explain above, actually it would not.

My parent's flat has Economy 7 and again, it really matters how much
power you use when.
Post by Judith
For some reason the Tory government seem very reluctant to force such a thing
on the energy companies.
As I am explaining to you, you do not seem to know the half of it,
because you are only looking at it though the portal of your recent
experience. :-)

But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
tim...
2017-10-11 12:58:21 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users

and not all low users are low users of all energy, they may just be low
users of gas, for example

tim
Yellow
2017-10-11 19:31:44 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users
I agree. And they will not let you declare that you are not using any of
the gas or electric, to get the standing charges waved, unless you use
none whatsoever.

An empty house that is occasionally visited and the lights turned on for
a few minutes, will not be allowed for example.
Post by tim...
and not all low users are low users of all energy, they may just be low
users of gas, for example
Again - yes.
Yellow
2017-10-11 19:34:25 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users
I agree. And they will not let you declare that you are not using any of
the gas or electric, to get the standing charges waved, unless you use
none whatsoever.
I have just read your post again - did you actually mean that you think
the removal of standing charges penalises low users?

Because it is the opposite.
Post by Yellow
An empty house that is occasionally visited and the lights turned on for
a few minutes, will not be allowed for example.
Post by tim...
and not all low users are low users of all energy, they may just be low
users of gas, for example
Again - yes.
tim...
2017-10-12 11:07:56 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:28:14 +0100, Judith
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users
I agree. And they will not let you declare that you are not using any of
the gas or electric, to get the standing charges waved, unless you use
none whatsoever.
I have just read your post again - did you actually mean that you think
the removal of standing charges penalises low users?
Because it is the opposite.
yes I realised after I had posted that I was talking crap

So the problem is that it penalizes high users

and as the market is competitive there will be companies that see an
advantage in having a standing charge and lower unit costs for such users

and sooner or later, everyone will copy this

and we will have a standing charge as part of all bills

tim
Martin Brown
2017-10-12 07:59:22 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
That is fair enough. I think one where standing charge is zero and the
unit cost is higher might suit some very low net users of electricity.
Those with solar panels and gas CH for instance.
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users
I agree. And they will not let you declare that you are not using any of
the gas or electric, to get the standing charges waved, unless you use
none whatsoever.
The biggest problem for a lot of people is that you cannot get a cheaper
dual fuel tariff unless mains gas is physically available. This affects
many in rural communities where there is no mains gas at all.

I reckon that if there is no gas supply the utilities should be obliged
to offer dual fuel tariffs to their customers instead of quoting a
ridiculous £1M+ charge to be connected to the nearest gas main.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Yellow
2017-10-12 11:36:29 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:59:22 +0100, Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
It does take effort, that is for sure, but the only other option is for
there not to be choice and views differ on whether or not that is in the
interest of the consumer.
That is just not true.
Which bit?
Post by Judith
There is the option where the Government compels the companies to provide
information regarding basic tariffs in say a table which is used by ALL
companies in a prescribed format.
OK, if that was thought to help why not but there is a little more to it
than that.
If, for example, you are a very low user then a lower standing charge
might result is lower bills than a tariff with a higher standing charge
and a lower unit rate.
So it matters, how much power you use.
That is fair enough. I think one where standing charge is zero and the
unit cost is higher might suit some very low net users of electricity.
Those with solar panels and gas CH for instance.
We were doing a property, using very little power for 6 months but we
still had to pay the standing charge.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
Personally, I would just like to see the removal of standing charges as
that would make it easier to pick the best deal.
but that unfairly penalises low users
I agree. And they will not let you declare that you are not using any of
the gas or electric, to get the standing charges waved, unless you use
none whatsoever.
The biggest problem for a lot of people is that you cannot get a cheaper
dual fuel tariff unless mains gas is physically available. This affects
many in rural communities where there is no mains gas at all.
I reckon that if there is no gas supply the utilities should be obliged
to offer dual fuel tariffs to their customers instead of quoting a
ridiculous £1M+ charge to be connected to the nearest gas main.
My parent only has electricity, not because there is no mains gas but
because the block is electric only, and I can't say I'd appreciated that
the unit price was higher than it would be for a dual fuel tariff.
Judith
2017-10-11 22:54:34 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:03:39 +0100, Yellow <***@none.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Yellow
But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used. The information to be provided is the basic
options for payment : direct debit monthly, pay bills quarterly and pre-payment
- eg columns for each of these - and then the options available : all based on
your actual usage over the last year - if you are an actual customer of that
provider: for other providers standard defined typical usages to be used in the
table.

Is that really too difficult to define and put in place.

(It is total charges: no need to identify standing charges at all if they are
still in use)

People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
Yellow
2017-10-12 00:00:59 UTC
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Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Post by Judith
The information to be provided is the basic
options for payment : direct debit monthly, pay bills quarterly and pre-payment
- eg columns for each of these - and then the options available : all based on
your actual usage over the last year - if you are an actual customer of that
provider: for other providers standard defined typical usages to be used in the
table.
The EON site does all this..
Post by Judith
Is that really too difficult to define and put in place.
(It is total charges: no need to identify standing charges at all if they are
still in use)
People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
People? I don't believe you are in a position to be able to claim to
speak for "people".
Judith
2017-10-12 06:31:24 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.

The same rules are applied to all suppliers for comparison purpose needs.

If companies want to give additional clarification - that would be up to them.
Post by Yellow
The EON site does all this..
Could you please point me at the table - I haven't seen it.
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
People? I don't believe you are in a position to be able to claim to
speak for "people".
You are quite right : the people of this country are very, very pleased with
the way the energy industry, prices, and information all works in this country
under the Tories - and they just don't need any clearer way to compare
companies and their prices.

I suppose you can back that up for me?


David and Mayhem need not have "promised" to reform the system
Christie
2017-10-12 09:30:50 UTC
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Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
The same rules are applied to all suppliers for comparison purpose needs.
If companies want to give additional clarification - that would be up to them.
Post by Yellow
The EON site does all this..
Could you please point me at the table - I haven't seen it.
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
People? I don't believe you are in a position to be able to claim to
speak for "people".
You are quite right : the people of this country are very, very pleased with
the way the energy industry, prices, and information all works in this country
under the Tories - and they just don't need any clearer way to compare
companies and their prices.
I suppose you can back that up for me?
David and Mayhem need not have "promised" to reform the system
The government, it seems, have now done what they promised with draft
legislation designed to lower the cost of energy bills set to be
published by them later. The price cap, though, is unlikely to take
effect before winter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41592200
Yellow
2017-10-12 11:43:00 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
Why do you want "average" information when you can have the correct
information?
Post by Judith
The same rules are applied to all suppliers for comparison purpose needs.
If companies want to give additional clarification - that would be up to them.
Post by Yellow
The EON site does all this..
Could you please point me at the table - I haven't seen it.
Put in your postcode, because energy prices are regional, click on a
couple of options and you will get a list of all the tariffs they have
available, a monthly and yearly estimate of cost together with a
detailed breakdown of how that comes about.

It is really really good and you should have a look rather than just
rejecting it out of hand because it solves the problem you are
complaining about. :-)
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
People? I don't believe you are in a position to be able to claim to
speak for "people".
You are quite right
I know. :-)
Judith
2017-10-13 14:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
Why do you want "average" information when you can have the correct
information?
Because many/most people do not know what their consumption is over a year. So
define an average usage - and then use this to compare costs from different
suppliers.
Post by Yellow
Put in your postcode, because energy prices are regional, click on a
couple of options and you will get a list of all the tariffs they have
available, a monthly and yearly estimate of cost together with a
detailed breakdown of how that comes about.
It is really really good and you should have a look rather than just
rejecting it out of hand because it solves the problem you are
complaining about. :-)
I've had a look : when you say : "click on a couple of options" I assume you
mean selecting/click next etc ten or so times is "clicking on a couple of
options" ie it is not as straight forward as you made out. Also it did not
give a choice of tariffs: just told me what was the cheapest they could offer.
Just need to do that for all other suppliers now : unless of course there is a
simple table that almost everybody will be able to follow in order to compare
supplier A with supplier B etc.
tim...
2017-10-13 16:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
Why do you want "average" information when you can have the correct
information?
Because many/most people do not know what their consumption is over a year. So
define an average usage
but that doesn't work, because it is impossible to work out what the effect
of "high standing charge low unit tariff" v "low standing charge high unit
tariff" is for you usage.

It's all very well if you are the owner of a 1960s 3/4 bed semi that uses
(what is apparently the average) 1500 GBP of fuel each year, but the answer
is going to be different if you are the owner of a 2010 2 bed flat that uses
500 GBP.

tim
Yellow
2017-10-13 18:16:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
Why do you want "average" information when you can have the correct
information?
Because many/most people do not know what their consumption is over a year. So
define an average usage - and then use this to compare costs from different
suppliers.
But as I have already told you, usage patterns can affect the price
people pay. At least EON give you the option of picking low, medium and
high user, as well as giving you the option of entering your own
figures.

And in case you are unaware - your yearly usage figures are sent to you
once a year by your supplier, so it is information we all have after the
first year of paying power bills.

So again, why do you want to give people the wrong information when they
can have the right information?
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Put in your postcode, because energy prices are regional, click on a
couple of options and you will get a list of all the tariffs they have
available, a monthly and yearly estimate of cost together with a
detailed breakdown of how that comes about.
It is really really good and you should have a look rather than just
rejecting it out of hand because it solves the problem you are
complaining about. :-)
I've had a look : when you say : "click on a couple of options" I assume you
mean selecting/click next etc ten or so times is "clicking on a couple of
options" ie it is not as straight forward as you made out.
Don't be so over dramatic.

For example -

Put in a postcode, then click on dual fuel, then next, then medium
user, then next, then Direct Debit, then next, and then paperless
billing and then next.

So a postcode followed by 9 mouse clicks.

And you also have the option to put in your exact usage figures if you
wish.
Post by Judith
Also it did not
give a choice of tariffs: just told me what was the cheapest they could offer.
Perhaps there was only one tariff that met your criteria but when I did
the above I think I got 7 options.
Post by Judith
Just need to do that for all other suppliers now : unless of course there is a
simple table that almost everybody will be able to follow in order to compare
supplier A with supplier B etc.
If spending 5 minutes on each site is too much of a stretch for you,
then use a comparison site, at least to get you started.
Ophelia
2017-10-13 20:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used.
You need to enter your postcode because prices are regional.
Doesn't really matter: the minimum table is saying what a particular supplier
will charge for a particular configuration, payment method, and usage over the
country as an average.
Why do you want "average" information when you can have the correct
information?
Because many/most people do not know what their consumption is over a year. So
define an average usage - and then use this to compare costs from different
suppliers.
But as I have already told you, usage patterns can affect the price
people pay. At least EON give you the option of picking low, medium and
high user, as well as giving you the option of entering your own
figures.

And in case you are unaware - your yearly usage figures are sent to you
once a year by your supplier, so it is information we all have after the
first year of paying power bills.

So again, why do you want to give people the wrong information when they
can have the right information?
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Put in your postcode, because energy prices are regional, click on a
couple of options and you will get a list of all the tariffs they have
available, a monthly and yearly estimate of cost together with a
detailed breakdown of how that comes about.
It is really really good and you should have a look rather than just
rejecting it out of hand because it solves the problem you are
complaining about. :-)
I've had a look : when you say : "click on a couple of options" I assume you
mean selecting/click next etc ten or so times is "clicking on a couple of
options" ie it is not as straight forward as you made out.
Don't be so over dramatic.

For example -

Put in a postcode, then click on dual fuel, then next, then medium
user, then next, then Direct Debit, then next, and then paperless
billing and then next.

So a postcode followed by 9 mouse clicks.

And you also have the option to put in your exact usage figures if you
wish.
Post by Judith
Also it did not
give a choice of tariffs: just told me what was the cheapest they could offer.
Perhaps there was only one tariff that met your criteria but when I did
the above I think I got 7 options.
Post by Judith
Just need to do that for all other suppliers now : unless of course there is a
simple table that almost everybody will be able to follow in order to compare
supplier A with supplier B etc.
If spending 5 minutes on each site is too much of a stretch for you,
then use a comparison site, at least to get you started.

===

You should know by now he is too thick to be able to do such a thing ...
sheeesh!

How many times do you need to explain how to do it?????
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Norman Wells
2017-10-12 08:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
But last time an attempt was made to "improve" the system, we ended up
with standing charges, and all that has done is make it more expensive
for some people while not simplifying it at all.
Please explain why a very simple basic table could not be provided by all the
different suppliers - using precisely the same format - for the most common
plans/options which are used. The information to be provided is the basic
options for payment : direct debit monthly, pay bills quarterly and pre-payment
- eg columns for each of these - and then the options available : all based on
your actual usage over the last year - if you are an actual customer of that
provider: for other providers standard defined typical usages to be used in the
table.
Is that really too difficult to define and put in place.
(It is total charges: no need to identify standing charges at all if they are
still in use)
People could not give a shit how the bill is made up : they want to know how
much will I pay this next year - and what is the cheapest option *for me*.
Then that's what they have to find out. You can't expect any company in
any field to tell you that a rival is cheaper and you should go there,
can you? That would be anti-competitive and a restraint of trade. It
could also lead to cartels where all the providers aren't really in
competition but all agree, or at least mysteriously arrive at, charges
that don't differ from one another at all on what they have to provide
information on.

And there's a danger too that if certain 'basic' information has to be
stated, innovative products, perhaps like Economy 7 that suit some
people, wouldn't be introduced.

If anyone wants to compare prices for their own consumption patterns,
there are independent sites like uSwitch they can consult.
Martin Brown
2017-10-11 13:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
It is annoying that you cannot see the prevailing offers summarised in a
numerical table somewhere online. I don't trust the price comparison
sites to do it right or be up to date having the true latest offers.
But you can! All suppliers have their exact tariffs on their sites,
along with exit fees.
Whereabouts? As a concrete example on the EON site I can see:

https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home/products-and-services/fixed-price-1-year

or

https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home/products-and-services/cap-and-track-1-year

But I would have to mess about inputting a load of data to get a quote
to see anything remotely useful like daily standing charge and unit
cost. Even the paper version they send to customers is better laid out
than their website for making it easy to look at different options.

The marketing men have decided better not to show the numbers.

If there is some summary table hidden on their site or for any of the
other electricity suppliers then I would like to know where - ie URLs.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Yellow
2017-10-11 19:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:31:49 +0100, Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Yellow
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:31:26 +0100, Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Judith
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
It is annoying that you cannot see the prevailing offers summarised in a
numerical table somewhere online. I don't trust the price comparison
sites to do it right or be up to date having the true latest offers.
But you can! All suppliers have their exact tariffs on their sites,
along with exit fees.
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home/products-and-services/fixed-price-1-year
or
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home/products-and-services/cap-and-track-1-year
As prices are regional, you have to enter a postcode.

Then click through - I just said I wanted dual fuel, was a medium user,
would pay by DD and wanted paperless billing - and you then get a page
with all the tariffs that are available to you.

Click on the "review" button of the one of interest and then on "tariff
information".
Post by Martin Brown
But I would have to mess about inputting a load of data to get a quote
to see anything remotely useful like daily standing charge and unit
cost.
Not loads, no. Just a postcode and then click through the short list of
items that affect the price you would pay.

I put in a postcode, then clicked on dual fuel, then next, then medium
user, then next, then Direct Debit, then next, and then paperless
billing and then next.

So a postcode followed by 9 mouse clicks.
Post by Martin Brown
Even the paper version they send to customers is better laid out
than their website for making it easy to look at different options.
The marketing men have decided better not to show the numbers.
If there is some summary table hidden on their site or for any of the
other electricity suppliers then I would like to know where - ie URLs.
It took me no more than 30 seconds to get to the info you are asking
for.
tim...
2017-10-11 12:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
I recently contacted E.ON on behalf a friend. His contract (an Age Concern
special ) had come to an end: and he wanted to move to the cheapest available
contract for his gas and electricity.
I (eventually) spoke to an E.ON representative: I said that I wanted to know
based on his actual consumption this last year: what is the cheapest plan
available for the next year.
He said he could not tell me.
Probably not allowed to (even though I expect the software shows him). You
have to ask questions playing by the script rules.
Post by Judith
I queried this and was told I needed to chose either fixed or variable: I said
I did not mind - what was the cheapest. He could not tell me: I then had to
go through all the variable options - three in number - and all the fixed price
- two in number: asking each time what would the annual bill be on each of
these would be.
The whole thing is labyrinthine in its complexity. The price comparison
sites make assumptions that you will continue on the suckers variable
tariff. The whole object is to blind the consumer with useless "choice".
Mine was actually quite helpful but then I know how to play their game it
took nearly 40 minutes to enumerate all the possibilities.
Post by Judith
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
It is annoying that you cannot see the prevailing offers summarised in a
numerical table somewhere online.
the people who operate this type of site think that such details confuses
people.

They think that people only think in terms of "how much does this cost per
month".

Anything that requires them to work out annual bills and divide by 12 is too
hard for people to understand

(and TBH there is anecdotal evidence that suggests they are right)

tim
Yellow
2017-10-11 10:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
I recently contacted E.ON on behalf a friend. His contract (an Age Concern
special ) had come to an end: and he wanted to move to the cheapest available
contract for his gas and electricity.
I (eventually) spoke to an E.ON representative: I said that I wanted to know
based on his actual consumption this last year: what is the cheapest plan
available for the next year.
He said he could not tell me.
I queried this and was told I needed to chose either fixed or variable: I said
I did not mind - what was the cheapest. He could not tell me: I then had to
go through all the variable options - three in number - and all the fixed price
- two in number: asking each time what would the annual bill be on each of
these would be.
I then (and only then) could see what was the actual cheapest option - and
moved my friend to it.
I use EON and they have a really good website so would suggest you try
that next time, specifically the feature that costs each of their plans
for you so you can decide which is cheapest for you.

And of course the representative could not tell you whether or not the
variable plan would work out cheapest, because the price is erm...
variable.

You have to decide for yourself which way to go - fixed or variable.
Post by Judith
I could have sworn that Cameron and Mayhem have both said (after nicking the
idea from Labour) that they were going to insist the energy companies provided
clear and easily understandable tariffs so that people could actually see what
was the cheapest option for them.
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.

And no, I do not work for EON, I just have a little bit of recent
experience and have been dealing with the energy suppliers for three
properties this year.

EON also allow you to change your direct debit amount online, which is a
nice feature.
Post by Judith
Still : we're quite used to Tory promises followed by U-turns now.
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
Post by Judith
Looks like we will have to wait (not long now) for the Labour Government to
sort this out
Bit drastic, calling for a Labour government because you do not know how
to use a website. :-)
Judith
2017-10-11 11:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:35:27 +0100, Yellow <***@none.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was however
intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go through the process they
would have to go through as they had already tried on the phone and got
no-where: I wanted to see why.

I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for themselves: the
energy companies make that as difficult as possible.
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come up with. Ask
all of your friends how easy is it for them to find the cheapest energy
supplier.
Yellow
2017-10-11 12:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was however
intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go through the process they
would have to go through as they had already tried on the phone and got
no-where: I wanted to see why.
Fair enough but would it not have been better instead to just have
helped him to use the website?
Post by Judith
I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for themselves: the
energy companies make that as difficult as possible.
Myself, having recent experience, do not think it is difficult. Time
consuming most definitely, but not difficult.
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come up with. Ask
all of your friends how easy is it for them to find the cheapest energy
supplier.
I think the real problem is getting people to spend more than 10 minutes
on the task and because it takes longer, it gets equated with
"difficult".
Ophelia
2017-10-11 19:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was however
intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go through the process they
would have to go through as they had already tried on the phone and got
no-where: I wanted to see why.
Fair enough but would it not have been better instead to just have
helped him to use the website?
Post by Judith
I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for themselves: the
energy companies make that as difficult as possible.
Myself, having recent experience, do not think it is difficult. Time
consuming most definitely, but not difficult.
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come up with.
Ask
all of your friends how easy is it for them to find the cheapest energy
supplier.
I think the real problem is getting people to spend more than 10 minutes
on the task and because it takes longer, it gets equated with
"difficult".

=

:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Judith
2017-10-11 23:00:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was however
intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go through the process they
would have to go through as they had already tried on the phone and got
no-where: I wanted to see why.
Fair enough but would it not have been better instead to just have
helped him to use the website?
I agree if that was possible for them: but not an option for that person.
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for themselves: the
energy companies make that as difficult as possible.
Myself, having recent experience, do not think it is difficult. Time
consuming most definitely, but not difficult.
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come up with. Ask
all of your friends how easy is it for them to find the cheapest energy
supplier.
I think the real problem is getting people to spend more than 10 minutes
on the task and because it takes longer, it gets equated with
"difficult".
I think you should consider the fact that your abilities may probably be better
than those of many people who are energy customers.

Ask yourself how your parents or grand parents would cope, how people with IQ
of less than 100 would cope, if there was no-one to help them. The pricing
options need to be made very clear to all customers in an easily understandable
and standard format.
Yellow
2017-10-12 00:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was however
intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go through the process they
would have to go through as they had already tried on the phone and got
no-where: I wanted to see why.
Fair enough but would it not have been better instead to just have
helped him to use the website?
I agree if that was possible for them: but not an option for that person.
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for themselves: the
energy companies make that as difficult as possible.
Myself, having recent experience, do not think it is difficult. Time
consuming most definitely, but not difficult.
Post by Judith
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me - or the
government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come up with. Ask
all of your friends how easy is it for them to find the cheapest energy
supplier.
I think the real problem is getting people to spend more than 10 minutes
on the task and because it takes longer, it gets equated with
"difficult".
I think you should consider the fact that your abilities may probably be better
than those of many people who are energy customers.
Ask yourself how your parents or grand parents would cope, how people with IQ
of less than 100 would cope, if there was no-one to help them. The pricing
options need to be made very clear to all customers in an easily understandable
and standard format.
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Judith
2017-10-12 06:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 01:09:49 +0100, Yellow <***@none.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
This is appearing to be quite difficult for you to follow:

Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.

All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.

Got it yet?

I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
kat
2017-10-12 08:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
--
kat
Post by Judith
^..^<
tim...
2017-10-12 11:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables

they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place

tim
Yellow
2017-10-12 12:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
To make that work, energy companies would have to be banned from making
price changes inside of the life of the paper leaflets.
Judith
2017-10-12 21:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:07:43 +0100, Yellow <***@none.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
To make that work, energy companies would have to be banned from making
price changes inside of the life of the paper leaflets.
Rubbish: they make a price change - then they have to inform every customer
(operas they even have to do that now) - and enclose the updated table of their
prices.

Is that too difficult?
Yellow
2017-10-13 00:42:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
To make that work, energy companies would have to be banned from making
price changes inside of the life of the paper leaflets.
Rubbish: they make a price change - then they have to inform every customer
(operas they even have to do that now) - and enclose the updated table of their
prices.
Is that too difficult?
So one company changes it prices and your logic is that these leaflets
should be reprinted and sent to every household in the UK?
Ophelia
2017-10-13 09:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
To make that work, energy companies would have to be banned from making
price changes inside of the life of the paper leaflets.
Rubbish: they make a price change - then they have to inform every customer
(operas they even have to do that now) - and enclose the updated table of their
prices.
Is that too difficult?
So one company changes it prices and your logic is that these leaflets
should be reprinted and sent to every household in the UK?

==

Every time! ;p Oh my, that is one helluva lot of paper. Never mind, it
will keep the PO busy.

It occurs to me that if they have to do all that, they might have to put up
their prices to pay for it ...
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
kat
2017-10-13 09:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yellow"  wrote in message
So one company changes it prices and your logic is that these leaflets
should be reprinted and sent to every household in the UK?
==
Every time!  ;p  Oh my, that is one helluva lot of paper.  Never mind, it
will keep the PO busy.
It occurs to me that if they have to do all that, they might have to put up
their prices to pay for it ...
That's a very good point!
--
kat
^..^<
kat
2017-10-12 17:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people  - and those who do know how to use an on-line
system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer;  which method would your grand parents if they are
still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system.  So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are
so keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
tim
What would be the appropriate place to pick up such a chart?
--
kat
Post by tim...
^..^<
tim...
2017-10-12 18:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
tim
What would be the appropriate place to pick up such a chart?
local council office

library

Citizens Advice centre

Age Concern (whatever it's called now) drop in centre (they have one in my
little town so I know they exists)

HTH

tim
Post by kat
--
kat
Post by tim...
^..^<
Judith
2017-10-12 21:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snip>
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
tim
Spot on !!

(ie out of every envelope they are sent by their supplier)
Yellow
2017-10-13 00:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
tim
Spot on !!
(ie out of every envelope they are sent by their supplier)
So to every household in the UK plus all the leaflets in the places
where they can be picked up - wasn't it libraries, council offices and
Age Concern - would need to be binned and replaced.
Judith
2017-10-13 14:17:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by tim...
Post by kat
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
the same way that people who don't have computers find bus and train
timetables
they pick up a printed copy from the appropriate place
tim
Spot on !!
(ie out of every envelope they are sent by their supplier)
So to every household in the UK plus all the leaflets in the places
where they can be picked up - wasn't it libraries, council offices and
Age Concern - would need to be binned and replaced.
Yes : why not. The amount of money would be insignificant with the amount the
energy companies spend on advertising - putting in smart meters for purely
their own benefits - and the tremendous profits that they make.

Thursday 31 August 2017 18.21 BST

Profit margins at the big six energy providers have hit the highest level on
record, according to the regulator, Ofgem, in data that comes just weeks after
British Gas raised some prices by 12.5%.


HTH
Judith
2017-10-12 21:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
I am suggesting that every supplier has to produce a standard table of its
prices which are available on-line and accompany every bill/statement/letter
that the company send to customers.

Something in an easily readable format: predefined by the regulator.
kat
2017-10-12 21:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
I am suggesting that every supplier has to produce a standard table of its
prices which are available on-line and accompany every bill/statement/letter
that the company send to customers.
Something in an easily readable format: predefined by the regulator.
That would work, for one's current supplier, then one needs to get all
the others. :-)
--
kat
Post by Judith
^..^<
Yellow
2017-10-13 00:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
I am suggesting that every supplier has to produce a standard table of its
prices which are available on-line and accompany every bill/statement/letter
that the company send to customers.
First, we already get told if our current prices are changing.

And second, how is just having the pricing information of the tariffs
from the company you are already with supposed to help people decide if
they need to change supplier?

That makes no sense.

This random site list 40 companies where energy can currently be
purchased.

http://tinyurl.com/yaj5yrc5

or

http://www.goenergyshopping.co.uk/switching-suppliers/energy-supplier-
info
Post by Judith
Something in an easily readable format: predefined by the regulator.
Going to need a really big sheet of paper to list all the tariff
information from all the plans offered by 40 companies and you want it
replaced every time one changes a price.

Do you have shares in a paper mill company perhaps?
kat
2017-10-13 09:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
I am suggesting that every supplier has to produce a standard table of its
prices which are available on-line and accompany every bill/statement/letter
that the company send to customers.
First, we already get told if our current prices are changing.
And second, how is just having the pricing information of the tariffs
from the company you are already with supposed to help people decide if
they need to change supplier?
That's what I don't understand. I agree companies ought to make it
clear, perhaps with a leaflet, what their current tariffs are, to their
own customers, but I thought we were where to get the best rates
anywhere, not just with a current supplier. And as you mention in the
bit I have snipped, there are a lot of suppliers, that's a tree every
time you change all the leaflets in one location!
--
kat
Post by Yellow
^..^<
Norman Wells
2017-10-13 09:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
That's what I don't understand.  I agree companies ought to make it
clear, perhaps with a leaflet, what their current tariffs are, to their
own customers, but I thought we were where to get the best rates
anywhere, not just with a current supplier.  And as you mention in the
bit I have snipped, there are a lot of suppliers, that's a tree every
time you change all the leaflets in one location!
It's a bit difficult when all the products on offer, perhaps because of
deliberate confusion marketing, are slightly different.

Is an orange better than an apple?
Judith
2017-10-13 14:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
Post by kat
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
I get that there are people who can't for some reason use an online
system. So how are they going to find that comparison chart you are so
keen on?
I am suggesting that every supplier has to produce a standard table of its
prices which are available on-line and accompany every bill/statement/letter
that the company send to customers.
First, we already get told if our current prices are changing.
And second, how is just having the pricing information of the tariffs
from the company you are already with supposed to help people decide if
they need to change supplier?
That makes no sense.
This random site list 40 companies where energy can currently be
purchased.
http://tinyurl.com/yaj5yrc5
or
http://www.goenergyshopping.co.uk/switching-suppliers/energy-supplier-
info
Post by Judith
Something in an easily readable format: predefined by the regulator.
Going to need a really big sheet of paper to list all the tariff
information from all the plans offered by 40 companies and you want it
replaced every time one changes a price.
Do you have shares in a paper mill company perhaps?
No: but I suspect you have shares in an Energy company.

Each company compelled to display on their web site with an easy link from
opening page. Other sites may provide links to those of all energy companies.

Or perhaps you like being screwed over by the energy companies.
Yellow
2017-10-12 11:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
What is appearing to be quite difficult for you to follow is that people
without computers are not going to be able to use your "standardised
table" either. :-p
Post by Judith
All of those people - and those who do know how to use an on-line system -
would benefit from having a simple printed table in a defined format so that
they compare energy companies.
Got it yet?
But what you cannot get is that prices are regional and are dependant on
usage patterns.

Perhaps it is in fact that you who is incapable of using energy
websites? As you seem quite ignorant about how they work and what
information is available..
Post by Judith
I don't know how old you are: which method would your parents if they are still
alive prefer; which method would your grand parents if they are still alive
prefer?
My last grandparent died before the birth of home computing and in any
case are not concerned with energy prices but my remaining parent is in
their 80s and are perfectly capable of using on-line banking, online
shopping and online energy websites.

This idea that "old people" cannot use computers become they are old is
a myth.
Judith
2017-10-13 14:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
Post by Judith
<snip>
Post by Yellow
EON site - all you need to do is enter a postcode and click a couple of
multiple choice boxes about payment method etc and all the info you are
asking for is there.
Not everyone has access to a computer.
Not everyone knows how to use one.
What is appearing to be quite difficult for you to follow is that people
without computers are not going to be able to use your "standardised
table" either. :-p
I am sorry to say: but that is absolute bollocks.


Most people I know can understand a simple table of options: including those
who do not have access to PCs - or could not even use them if they did have,
Post by Yellow
But what you cannot get is that prices are regional and are dependant on
usage patterns.
So: the companies have a different table for each region.

They send it out with every communication they send to customers.

Still too difficult for you?
Post by Yellow
This idea that "old people" cannot use computers become they are old is
a myth.
So: they will be able to simply access the table for their area on the energy
company's web-site: much easier than putting in about a dozen options/clicks
when they are not used to doing such things

Excellent.

PS there are more than 60% of UK adults who are classed as poor/terrible/or
can't even use a PC last time I looked
pamela
2017-10-11 20:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:35:27 +0100, Yellow
<snip>
Post by Yellow
The EON website, again, is very good for this and it is a shame
therefore that you have picked on this particular company to
slag off.
I had looked at the web site to get an idea; however, I was
however intentionally wanting to help a friend and actually go
through the process they would have to go through as they had
already tried on the phone and got no-where: I wanted to see
why.
I suspect most people want to find the cheapest option for
themselves: the energy companies make that as difficult as
possible.
Post by Yellow
I think this is one of those occasions when it is you, not me -
or the government.
No: I am looking at what the Tories have promised and not come
up with. Ask all of your friends how easy is it for them to
find the cheapest energy supplier.
Energy company bosses quizzed by a Parliamentary select committee
cause the MPs to almost tear their hair out in frustration at the
dodgy assurances and promises to look into matters given by the
energy companies.

MP's concern about customer dissatisfaction and widespread failure
to adhere to industry codes of conduct are met with the usual
bland statements from energy bosses. Mistakes and unfairnesses
get counted in tens of thousands.

I wouldn't trust an energy company as far as I could throw them.
They're guaranteed to thwart even good political intentions.
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