Discussion:
ROI and Brexit
Add Reply
Ophelia
2017-12-01 21:28:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)

A No Deal option is looming large:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Big Jumper
2017-12-01 21:44:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
Will PM May have the guts to leave the EU, and give them a Great
British two fingered salute at the same time?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Ian Jackson
2017-12-01 22:24:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
--
Ian
James Harris
2017-12-01 22:30:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.

You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
--
James Harris
Altroy1
2017-12-02 01:43:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
The formation of the GFA was not impossible. Both jursisdictions were part of
the World's largest Single Market and Customs Union. Dispensing with the
border's security apparatus accordingly rendered the border invisible.

And the CTA alone did not a Customs Union make as the picture from this site
clearly shows:

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/07/15/a-hard-irish-border-is-quite-possible/

One or other country outside of the SM and CU means a border.
Post by James Harris
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
I think it was Eddie Mair a few days ago inviting a DUP politician to cite a
single example of an invisible border where the two countries weren't in a
common Customs Union. No example was forthcoming. The politician did try to cite
Norway, but Mair quickly pointed out Norway was in the SM.

Brexit genius, Daniel J Hannan, thought he had it figured:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/694178/Tory-MEP-Europe-Brexit-turmoil-Britain?_ga=1.197359151.1037636980.1467185245

By Oli Smith PUBLISHED: 13:14, Thu, Jul 28, 2016

'Europe is suffering Brexit turmoil, not us' Tory MEP insists Eurocrats
were wrong.

CONSERVATIVE MEP Daniel Hannan has told the BBC that Britain
has the upper hand in Brexit negotiations, insisting that the country
is going "global" while Europe is suffering devastating decline.

Meanwhile Mr Paterson promises "electronic solutions" as a cure for all ills:


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/owen-paterson-returns-to-campaign-for-brexit-1.2598040

Paterson also claims it is "ludicrous" to suggest that Brexit could
pose any threat to the peace process or result in a new border being
built overnight between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

He also argues that the common travel area arrangements which exist
between the UK and the Republic which mean there are no passport
controls between the two jurisdictions would continue and that
"electronic" solutions - which already exists across Europe - would be
put in place for cross-border trade.

But who is it that is simply horrified, and probably rightly so, at this
electronic friction-free loveliness? Answer the DUP.

One proposal was to move this lovely electronic and frictionless border to the
Irish Sea. The DUP apparently don't see the transparency and frictionless beauty
in such arrangements and are threatening to scupper any deal.

Anyone with basic understanding of international trade will get their heads
around the inextricable link between sovereignty and trade. That is because you
buy from a country and you will insist that country adheres to certain rules.
Sell to a country and that country will ask you to adhere to certain rules. A
300% tariff from Make America Great Again's unelected trading commision awaits
those silly enough to think otherwise.
Fredxx
2017-12-02 11:54:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
The formation of the GFA was not impossible. Both jursisdictions were
part of the World's largest Single Market and Customs Union. Dispensing
with the border's security apparatus accordingly rendered the border
invisible.
And the CTA alone did not a Customs Union make as the picture from this
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/07/15/a-hard-irish-border-is-quite-possible/
One or other country outside of the SM and CU means a border.
Post by James Harris
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
I think it was Eddie Mair a few days ago inviting a DUP politician to
cite a single example of an invisible border where the two countries
weren't in a common Customs Union. No example was forthcoming. The
politician did try to cite Norway, but Mair quickly pointed out Norway
was in the SM.
Norway is not in the Single Market. It is in the EETA with many tariffs
applied to imports into Norway and the the EU.

I'm surprised you and Mair got it so wrong.
Altroy1
2017-12-02 18:51:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
[...]
Post by Fredxx
Post by Altroy1
I think it was Eddie Mair a few days ago inviting a DUP politician to
cite a single example of an invisible border where the two countries
weren't in a common Customs Union. No example was forthcoming. The
politician did try to cite Norway, but Mair quickly pointed out Norway
was in the SM.
Norway is not in the Single Market. It is in the EETA with many tariffs
applied to imports into Norway and the the EU.
I'm surprised you and Mair got it so wrong.
I "think" AKA not totally sure it was Mair. Also the matter of Norway's
relationship with the SM is a bit nuanced. It is mostly in the SM but not
totally and there are some customs checks along the Swedish border. Both the
Democratic Unionist Party and the Dublin Government agree on one thing albeit
for different reasons. An electronic border is still seen as a barrier. Dublin
wants to avoid it along the land border and the DUP don't want it on the Irish
Sea. An obvious solution would be for Brexiters to take back control of
immigration by exiting the SM but remain in the Customs Union. Turkey is in the
CU but doesn't have free movement.

How much would a FTA with Trump and MAGA be worth anyway? Not much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway-European_Union_relations

https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g190455-s602/Norway:Crossing.The.Border.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-trade-talks-donald-trump-us-joseph-stiglitz-economist-nobel-prize-winner-a8087606.html
James Harris
2017-12-03 16:52:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
The formation of the GFA was not impossible.
It was thought impossible before it was formed. For example, do you not
remember Ian Paisley's "Never, never, never"? Do you not remember that
the IRA had to verifiably give up decades of armed struggle? It took a
lot of courage and political will on all sides to make it happen. But if
the will is there, things can be done. The Ireland border is a walk in
the park compared with the GFA.

In fact, Enda Kenny was apparently working amicably with the Brits to
come up with a solution. It is only since Veradkar took over that the
Ireland border has become a major issue at this point, and the media
have been a mouthpiece for his strange idea of diplomacy. Anyone would
think he had a domestic audience to please....
Post by Altroy1
Both jursisdictions were part of
the World's largest Single Market and Customs Union. Dispensing with the
border's security apparatus accordingly rendered the border invisible.
And the CTA alone did not a Customs Union make as the picture from this site
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/07/15/a-hard-irish-border-is-quite-possible/
One or other country outside of the SM and CU means a border.
Post by James Harris
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
I think it was Eddie Mair a few days ago inviting a DUP politician to cite a
single example of an invisible border where the two countries weren't in a
common Customs Union. No example was forthcoming. The politician did try to cite
Norway, but Mair quickly pointed out Norway was in the SM.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/694178/Tory-MEP-Europe-Brexit-turmoil-Britain?_ga=1.197359151.1037636980.1467185245
By Oli Smith PUBLISHED: 13:14, Thu, Jul 28, 2016
'Europe is suffering Brexit turmoil, not us' Tory MEP insists Eurocrats
were wrong.
CONSERVATIVE MEP Daniel Hannan has told the BBC that Britain
has the upper hand in Brexit negotiations, insisting that the country
is going "global" while Europe is suffering devastating decline.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/owen-paterson-returns-to-campaign-for-brexit-1.2598040
Paterson also claims it is "ludicrous" to suggest that Brexit could
pose any threat to the peace process or result in a new border being
built overnight between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
He also argues that the common travel area arrangements which exist
between the UK and the Republic which mean there are no passport
controls between the two jurisdictions would continue and that
"electronic" solutions - which already exists across Europe - would be
put in place for cross-border trade.
But who is it that is simply horrified, and probably rightly so, at this
electronic friction-free loveliness? Answer the DUP.
One proposal was to move this lovely electronic and frictionless border to the
Irish Sea. The DUP apparently don't see the transparency and frictionless beauty
in such arrangements and are threatening to scupper any deal.
Anyone with basic understanding of international trade will get their heads
around the inextricable link between sovereignty and trade. That is because you
buy from a country and you will insist that country adheres to certain rules.
Sell to a country and that country will ask you to adhere to certain rules. A
300% tariff from Make America Great Again's unelected trading commision awaits
those silly enough to think otherwise.
On travel, isn't it strange that the UK has a soft border with non-EU
areas such as the Channel Islands but that the EU has a hard border
between Spain and Gibraltar!!! It's not the UK which wants an Ireland
border.

On goods tariffs, why should firms not account for customs duties as
they do VAT?

Some level of smuggling happens now. Why should that not continue?
--
James Harris
Yellow
2017-12-03 23:04:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:52:13 +0000, James Harris <james.harris.1
Post by James Harris
Post by Altroy1
Anyone with basic understanding of international trade will get their heads
around the inextricable link between sovereignty and trade. That is because you
buy from a country and you will insist that country adheres to certain rules.
Sell to a country and that country will ask you to adhere to certain rules. A
300% tariff from Make America Great Again's unelected trading commision awaits
those silly enough to think otherwise.
On travel, isn't it strange that the UK has a soft border with non-EU
areas such as the Channel Islands but that the EU has a hard border
between Spain and Gibraltar!!! It's not the UK which wants an Ireland
border.
On goods tariffs, why should firms not account for customs duties as
they do VAT?
And if we can get a free trade agreement between the EU and the UK, they
would not even have to bother with customs duties.
Post by James Harris
Some level of smuggling happens now. Why should that not continue?
Ophelia
2017-12-02 08:46:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.

You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.

James Harris

==

I am stunned that the EU has come out the way it has. I don't have to say
that if we leave with no deal, they can wave their £billions goodbye. Is
this their way of trying to get us to stay??
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Fredxx
2017-12-02 11:55:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
James Harris
==
I am stunned that the EU has come out the way it has.  I don't have to
say that if we leave with no deal, they can wave their £billions
goodbye.  Is this their way of trying to get us to stay??
They are taking the piss. What more stipulations are they going to apply
after we resolve an issue, seemingly much to their chagrin.
Ophelia
2017-12-02 14:23:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
James Harris
==
I am stunned that the EU has come out the way it has. I don't have to say
that if we leave with no deal, they can wave their £billions goodbye. Is
this their way of trying to get us to stay??
They are taking the piss. What more stipulations are they going to apply
after we resolve an issue, seemingly much to their chagrin.

==

What will they gain though if we just decide to leave?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
James Harris
2017-12-02 20:31:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On 02/12/2017 08:46, Ophelia wrote:

...
Post by Ophelia
I am stunned that the EU has come out the way it has. I don't have to say
that if we leave with no deal, they can wave their £billions goodbye. Is
this their way of trying to get us to stay??
I have to say that IMO May has been foolish in her language - things
such as initially saying security would be part of the deal, then that
we won't negotiate any other trade deals while still members, then that
we'll defend Europe unconditionally, and then that we'll pay what we owe.

On that last point, May seems to have set up the belief that what they
are negotiating now is what we owe. There might lead to a big fight if
the EU get told it's dependent on a deal. And that, in turn, matters
because leaving on WTO terms would be OK but leaving on bad terms could
be a disaster.
--
James Harris
Incubus
2017-12-04 11:33:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
What do you have against Leos? Discrimination based upon Sun Sign will
not be tolerated.

In related news, Saturn is leaving Sagittarius soon, which indicates
progress can be made.
Ophelia
2017-12-05 19:31:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
What do you have against Leos? Discrimination based upon Sun Sign will
not be tolerated.

In related news, Saturn is leaving Sagittarius soon, which indicates
progress can be made.

===

What's wrong with Sagittarius??? That is mine ... just so you know:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Incubus
2017-12-06 09:11:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's
current megaphone posturing.
What do you have against Leos?  Discrimination based upon Sun Sign will
not be tolerated.
In related news, Saturn is leaving Sagittarius soon, which indicates
progress can be made.
===
What's wrong with Sagittarius???  That is mine ... just so you know:))
Mine also. Saturn is retrograde in my chart but Saturn in Sagittarius
can indicate a temporary cohesion between things that don't ordinarily mix.
Ophelia
2017-12-06 12:18:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by James Harris
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
The formation of the GFA was impossible. But it got formed anyway.
You might be surprised at what can become possible when people work
together. Willingness to do so is more effective than the Leo's current
megaphone posturing.
What do you have against Leos? Discrimination based upon Sun Sign will
not be tolerated.
In related news, Saturn is leaving Sagittarius soon, which indicates
progress can be made.
===
What's wrong with Sagittarius??? That is mine ... just so you know:))
Mine also. Saturn is retrograde in my chart but Saturn in Sagittarius
can indicate a temporary cohesion between things that don't ordinarily mix.

==

I wouldn't know what is retrograde et al in my chart, or where to find it
for that matter.

No matter. Nice to see another Sagi:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ash Burton
2017-12-02 10:26:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
Only exceeded by your lack of knowledge of the 'Irish situation'.

There was a frictionless border (NI/ROI) for many years before we both
joined the EU and it worked very well.

The Irish government are just looking for a United Ireland by the back
door means.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-12-02 11:38:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ash Burton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
Only exceeded by your lack of knowledge of the 'Irish situation'.
There was a frictionless border (NI/ROI) for many years before we both
joined the EU and it worked very well.
The Irish government are just looking for a United Ireland by the back
door means.
No need for a back door: -
1. Comfortable remain in EU in NI in referendum.
2. Minority for unionist parties in General Election.
3. Lazy negotiations have focused electors in NI on just how bad Brexit would be for Ireland and NI in particular.
Yellow
2017-12-02 13:04:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 03:38:16 -0800 (PST), R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ash Burton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island. They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause trouble if
he were to raise any objections to any settlement. Absolutely pathetic.
Only exceeded by your lack of knowledge of the 'Irish situation'.
There was a frictionless border (NI/ROI) for many years before we both
joined the EU and it worked very well.
The Irish government are just looking for a United Ireland by the back
door means.
No need for a back door: -
1. Comfortable remain in EU in NI in referendum.
2. Minority for unionist parties in General Election.
3. Lazy negotiations have focused electors in NI on just how bad Brexit would be for Ireland and NI in particular.
Why should the UK care if Brexit is good or bad for Eire?
Fredxx
2017-12-02 11:58:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ash Burton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good
Friday Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that
troubled island. They simply could not understand that as things
stand, a frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a
non-EU country, and accused the Irish PM of simply wanting to cause
trouble if he were to raise any objections to any settlement.
Absolutely pathetic.
Only exceeded by your lack of knowledge of the 'Irish situation'.
There was a frictionless border (NI/ROI) for many years before we both
joined the EU and it worked very well.
The Irish government are just looking for a United Ireland by the back
door means.
It was always said the Irish government didn't want an united Ireland.
The consequences would be terrorism on a scale never seen before in
Ireland by unionists.

You need to remember the army was brought into NI to protect the
minority. Hence why I have long said we should simply confined the army
to barracks during the troubles. If only to remind them.
Incubus
2017-12-04 11:31:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
I'm astounded at the naivety and lack of knowledge about the 'Irish
situation'. This extends to LBC's Iain Dale this evening, and some of
his callers. They seemed to have little knowledge about the Good Friday
Agreement, and what it guarantees for the inhabitants of that troubled
island.
In which respect can it be said to be troubled?
Post by Ian Jackson
They simply could not understand that as things stand, a
frictionless border is impossible between an EU country and a non-EU
country,
So we need a border with mu > 0.
GB
2017-12-02 11:07:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
Fredxx
2017-12-02 13:33:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big hole
in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.

If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
Ian Jackson
2017-12-02 15:00:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <ovua3r$koa$***@dont-email.me>, Fredxx <***@nospam.com>
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big
hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
--
Ian
Yellow
2017-12-02 17:53:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:00:35 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big
hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
Then the Irish would need to negotiate it with the EU. Reasonable folks
that the EU they, should be do-able.
Ophelia
2017-12-02 18:07:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Yellow" wrote in message news:***@News.Individual.NET...

On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:00:35 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big
hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
Then the Irish would need to negotiate it with the EU. Reasonable folks
that the EU they, should be do-able.

==

Huh!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Yellow
2017-12-02 18:22:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:00:35 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big
hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
Then the Irish would need to negotiate it with the EU. Reasonable folks
that the EU they, should be do-able.
==
Huh!
Are you suggesting the EU are not reasonable people? Shame on you. :-)
Ophelia
2017-12-02 19:46:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:00:35 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big
hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in
Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
Then the Irish would need to negotiate it with the EU. Reasonable folks
that the EU they, should be do-able.
==
Huh!
Are you suggesting the EU are not reasonable people? Shame on you. :-)

===

lol
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Fredxx
2017-12-02 21:30:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
 It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and
then the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a
big hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many
factories in Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment,
as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free
trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have free
trade with the EU.

There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the UK
can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.
Ophelia
2017-12-02 22:12:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and then
the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a big hole
in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many factories in Eastern
Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged afterwards
through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the moment, as
a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate a free trade
agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have free
trade with the EU.

There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the UK
can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.

===

They can screw big money out of us!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ian Jackson
2017-12-02 22:22:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <ovv615$1gl$***@dont-email.me>, Fredxx <***@nospam.com>
writes
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
 It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and
then the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a
big hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many
factories in Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged
afterwards through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the
moment, as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate
a free trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have
free trade with the EU.
Don't you understand what "independently" means?
Post by Fredxx
There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the UK
can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.
As I said, as things stand at the moment, as a member of the EU the RoI
cannot independently negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE
(inside or outside the EU). Any trade agreement that the UK has with the
RoI will be a trade agreement that the UK has with the EU as a whole
(assuming it DOES have one). If the UK does not have a trade agreement
with the EU, it won't have one with the RoI. If there IS a separate,
special trade agreement between the RoI and the UK, it will need the
approval of the EU. [But is this likely?]

Of course, as you will already be aware, the alternatives are either
that the RoI leaves the EU - or that NI remains at least in the single
market and customs union, and there is a trade border between NI and the
rest of the UK. At the moment, neither are acceptable to the vast
majority of Irish citizens (both N and S).

Or do you have another deus ex machina solution?
--
Ian
Fredxx
2017-12-03 00:38:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
 It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but you
actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and
then the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept a
big hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many
factories in Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged
afterwards  through a free trade agreement.
 No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the
moment,  as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently negotiate
a free  trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have
free trade with the EU.
Don't you understand what "independently" means?
Post by Fredxx
There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the UK
can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.
As I said, as things stand at the moment, as a member of the EU the RoI
cannot independently negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE
(inside or outside the EU). Any trade agreement that the UK has with the
RoI will be a trade agreement that the UK has with the EU as a whole
(assuming it DOES have one).
That is precisely what I was saying. A free trade agreement between the
UK and EU, will by its very nature be a free trade agreement with the RoI.

No permissions nor any requirement to be 'independent' is then needed by
the RoI.
Lancer
2017-12-03 07:48:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but
you actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and
then the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept
a big hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many
factories in Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged
afterwards through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the
moment, as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently
negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the
EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have
free trade with the EU.
Don't you understand what "independently" means?
Post by Fredxx
There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the
UK can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.
As I said, as things stand at the moment, as a member of the EU the
RoI cannot independently negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE
(inside or outside the EU). Any trade agreement that the UK has with
the RoI will be a trade agreement that the UK has with the EU as a
whole (assuming it DOES have one).
That is precisely what I was saying. A free trade agreement between the
UK and EU, will by its very nature be a free trade agreement with the RoI.
And how many years will it take the UK and EU to hammer out a free trade
agreement?

Will we end up like Norway?



Outside and Inside Norway’s agreements with the European Union

"Norway’s agreements with the EU
affect domestic policy issues

They have implications for most sectors of society: the economy,
business, the labour market and working conditions, welfare,
health, regional policy, energy, environment, climate change, transport,
research, education, food, agriculture, fisheries, alcohol policy,
gender, equality, consumer protection, civil emergency preparedness,
border controls, immigration, police cooperation, security and defence
policy, and much more.

...

EU law has been incorporated to some extent into around 170 of a total
of 600 Norwegian statutes and approximately 1 000 Norwegian regulations."

https://www.norway.no/contentassets/907168977f114913b2bceeffd13652a1/nou2012_2_chapter_1.pdf
James Harris
2017-12-03 12:45:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lancer
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Fredxx
Post by GB
Post by Ophelia
I see the EU is backing the ROI now:)
A No Deal option is looming large:))
It took me a moment to work out the gormlessness involved, but
you actually think that's a good idea, don't you?
WTO tariffs aren't so bad. That will be the starting position, and
then the negotiations will truly start. The EU will have to accept
a big hole in their expenditure and not be able to fund so many
factories in Eastern Europe.
If the Irish want an open border then that can be arranged
afterwards through a free trade agreement.
No matter how often you keep saying it, as things stand at the
moment, as a member of the EU the RoI cannot independently
negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE (inside or outside the
EU).
You seem to miss the simple fact that countries outside the EU have
free trade with the EU.
Don't you understand what "independently" means?
Post by Fredxx
There is no reason, apart from posturing by EU bureaucrats, why the
UK can't have a free trade with the EU, as well as RoI.
As I said, as things stand at the moment, as a member of the EU the
RoI cannot independently negotiate a free trade agreement with ANYONE
(inside or outside the EU). Any trade agreement that the UK has with
the RoI will be a trade agreement that the UK has with the EU as a
whole (assuming it DOES have one).
That is precisely what I was saying. A free trade agreement between the
UK and EU, will by its very nature be a free trade agreement with the RoI.
And how many years will it take the UK and EU to hammer out a free trade
agreement?
Anyone trying to hammer out an agreement with the EU finds it takes a
long time.
--
James Harris
Loading...