Discussion:
Brexit on The Pledge, Sky News
(too old to reply)
MM
2018-07-21 08:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.

Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.

MM
Yellow
2018-07-21 11:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
MM

Ian Jackson
2018-07-21 12:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
MM
http://youtu.be/CN1WrjlWLXQ
My money's on the Hon Member for North-east Somerset.
--
Ian
Ian Jackson
2018-07-21 12:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
--
Ian
Yellow
2018-07-21 13:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.

Funny. :-)
Ian Jackson
2018-07-21 14:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here - which is (of course) only one of his
absolutely toe-curling lies. Unfortunately, his followers still can't
see through him, and they willingly lap up all this rubbish. If you
don't believe me, have a listen-again (if it's available) to his
broadcast.
--
Ian
abelard
2018-07-21 15:09:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:54:04 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
do you want it 'wrecked'?
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them? perhaps you don't want 'brexit'?

which is it? do be clear

do you want the borders controlled or don't you?

why do you suppose the 7 or 8% of uk gdp to the eu should
than any more than a small hit...if that?
and the much larger imports from the eu? are they going
to stop selling to us?

just what are you rabbiting on about?
Post by Ian Jackson
- which is (of course) only one of his
absolutely toe-curling lies. Unfortunately, his followers still can't
see through him, and they willingly lap up all this rubbish. If you
don't believe me, have a listen-again (if it's available) to his
broadcast.
--
www.abelard.org
Ian Jackson
2018-07-21 16:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:54:04 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
do you want it 'wrecked'?
It wouldn't break my heart if it was - but this should only be by
allowing a hopefully much better-informed People again to express their
Will again. If a majority still really do want to see an impoverished
Britain with a rapidly failing economy (and there's still a chance that
the 'regardless of the consequences' faction will), then I suppose we'll
have to go with it.

But of course this might not be necessary if our negotiators actually do
manage to get us a good deal with the EU - one which, by obvious popular
opinion, is good for us all.
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them?
Yes. While they could all come as visitors (although heavens knows where
we could put them up!), they can't really come on spec to get a job or
to sponge off The State. If they have no visible means of support, and
show no signs of being employed, after three months they can be told to
go home.

But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
perhaps you don't want 'brexit'?
Of course I don't (although there are certainly areas where the EU could
be improved). But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
which is it? do be clear
See above.
Post by abelard
do you want the borders controlled or don't you?
But we already HAVE control of our borders. No goddamned furriners can
come here without obeying our rules. While EU citizens don't need work
permits as such, unless they have job (or the prospect of getting one),
or are self-supporting, EU citizens can only come as visitors. Non-EU
citizens need work permits - and some, even as visitors, need visas.

But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
why do you suppose the 7 or 8% of uk gdp to the eu should
than any more than a small hit...if that?
I don't want ANY hit.
Post by abelard
and the much larger imports from the eu? are they going
to stop selling to us?
Who said they are?
Post by abelard
just what are you rabbiting on about?
I'm just trying to put you (and people like you) right about things.

Admittedly, membership of the EU has its problems and drawbacks - but
these are nothing like those that are going to hit us if we don't leave
without an agreement that is very similar to what we already have.

If it really IS a problem, nothing would please me more than if we could
have some modicum of limitation on the numbers coming here to work (to
be applied only when necessary). Unfortunately, successive governments
have totally ignored our ability to use the amount of control we have
had all along - because if they had, we probably wouldn't have had this
clamour to leave the EU. [Was this ignorance, or did they have an
ulterior motive?]

But you probably knew this already (at least I hope you did).
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
- which is (of course) only one of his
absolutely toe-curling lies. Unfortunately, his followers still can't
see through him, and they willingly lap up all this rubbish. If you
don't believe me, have a listen-again (if it's available) to his
broadcast.
--
Ian
abelard
2018-07-21 16:30:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:14:59 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:54:04 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
do you want it 'wrecked'?
It wouldn't break my heart if it was - but this should only be by
allowing a hopefully much better-informed People again to express their
Will again. If a majority still really do want to see an impoverished
Britain with a rapidly failing economy (and there's still a chance that
the 'regardless of the consequences' faction will), then I suppose we'll
have to go with it.
But of course this might not be necessary if our negotiators actually do
manage to get us a good deal with the EU - one which, by obvious popular
opinion, is good for us all.
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them?
Yes. While they could all come as visitors (although heavens knows where
we could put them up!), they can't really come on spec to get a job or
to sponge off The State. If they have no visible means of support, and
show no signs of being employed, after three months they can be told to
go home.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
perhaps you don't want 'brexit'?
Of course I don't (although there are certainly areas where the EU could
be improved). But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
which is it? do be clear
See above.
Post by abelard
do you want the borders controlled or don't you?
But we already HAVE control of our borders. No goddamned furriners can
come here without obeying our rules. While EU citizens don't need work
permits as such, unless they have job (or the prospect of getting one),
or are self-supporting, EU citizens can only come as visitors. Non-EU
citizens need work permits - and some, even as visitors, need visas.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
why do you suppose the 7 or 8% of uk gdp to the eu should
than any more than a small hit...if that?
I don't want ANY hit.
Post by abelard
and the much larger imports from the eu? are they going
to stop selling to us?
Who said they are?
Post by abelard
just what are you rabbiting on about?
I'm just trying to put you (and people like you) right about things.
Admittedly, membership of the EU has its problems and drawbacks - but
these are nothing like those that are going to hit us if we don't leave
without an agreement that is very similar to what we already have.
If it really IS a problem, nothing would please me more than if we could
have some modicum of limitation on the numbers coming here to work (to
be applied only when necessary). Unfortunately, successive governments
have totally ignored our ability to use the amount of control we have
had all along - because if they had, we probably wouldn't have had this
clamour to leave the EU. [Was this ignorance, or did they have an
ulterior motive?]
But you probably knew this already (at least I hope you did).
i thought that was approx your position..

perhaps you were getting bit hysterical! which was confusing me...

not being a marxist, i don't believe most things are all about
money...
so i'm much more complacent than you express for yourself...

i'd like to see you response to mel...do i smell appeasement on the
morning breeze?
--
www.abelard.org
Ian Jackson
2018-07-21 18:47:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:14:59 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:54:04 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
do you want it 'wrecked'?
It wouldn't break my heart if it was - but this should only be by
allowing a hopefully much better-informed People again to express their
Will again. If a majority still really do want to see an impoverished
Britain with a rapidly failing economy (and there's still a chance that
the 'regardless of the consequences' faction will), then I suppose we'll
have to go with it.
But of course this might not be necessary if our negotiators actually do
manage to get us a good deal with the EU - one which, by obvious popular
opinion, is good for us all.
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them?
Yes. While they could all come as visitors (although heavens knows where
we could put them up!), they can't really come on spec to get a job or
to sponge off The State. If they have no visible means of support, and
show no signs of being employed, after three months they can be told to
go home.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
perhaps you don't want 'brexit'?
Of course I don't (although there are certainly areas where the EU could
be improved). But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
which is it? do be clear
See above.
Post by abelard
do you want the borders controlled or don't you?
But we already HAVE control of our borders. No goddamned furriners can
come here without obeying our rules. While EU citizens don't need work
permits as such, unless they have job (or the prospect of getting one),
or are self-supporting, EU citizens can only come as visitors. Non-EU
citizens need work permits - and some, even as visitors, need visas.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
why do you suppose the 7 or 8% of uk gdp to the eu should
than any more than a small hit...if that?
I don't want ANY hit.
Post by abelard
and the much larger imports from the eu? are they going
to stop selling to us?
Who said they are?
Post by abelard
just what are you rabbiting on about?
I'm just trying to put you (and people like you) right about things.
Admittedly, membership of the EU has its problems and drawbacks - but
these are nothing like those that are going to hit us if we don't leave
without an agreement that is very similar to what we already have.
If it really IS a problem, nothing would please me more than if we could
have some modicum of limitation on the numbers coming here to work (to
be applied only when necessary). Unfortunately, successive governments
have totally ignored our ability to use the amount of control we have
had all along - because if they had, we probably wouldn't have had this
clamour to leave the EU. [Was this ignorance, or did they have an
ulterior motive?]
But you probably knew this already (at least I hope you did).
i thought that was approx your position..
It's EXACTLY my position.
Post by abelard
perhaps you were getting bit hysterical! which was confusing me...
Yet again.......
Perhaps I wasn't.
Post by abelard
not being a marxist, i don't believe most things are all about
money...
I don't expect that Marx did either.

While I'm usually on the side of those shouting "Up the workers!", there
are times when I reply "Yes - Right up the workers! [They don't like it
up 'em, you know]."
Post by abelard
so i'm much more complacent than you express for yourself...
Any chance of a translation?
Post by abelard
i'd like to see you response to mel...do i smell appeasement on the
morning breeze?
Ditto.
--
Ian
abelard
2018-07-21 18:54:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 19:47:57 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:14:59 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:54:04 +0100, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have commented, a lot
of the time he either tells lies, or he actually really doesn't know
what he's talking about. A lot of what he says now verges on
hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number
of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very
bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing
Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot,
must not, will not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed about the
consequences of leaving the EU.
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief
system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an
old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all - for
forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock, and for
all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're about to
suffer and endure.
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny. Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
do you want it 'wrecked'?
It wouldn't break my heart if it was - but this should only be by
allowing a hopefully much better-informed People again to express their
Will again. If a majority still really do want to see an impoverished
Britain with a rapidly failing economy (and there's still a chance that
the 'regardless of the consequences' faction will), then I suppose we'll
have to go with it.
But of course this might not be necessary if our negotiators actually do
manage to get us a good deal with the EU - one which, by obvious popular
opinion, is good for us all.
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them?
Yes. While they could all come as visitors (although heavens knows where
we could put them up!), they can't really come on spec to get a job or
to sponge off The State. If they have no visible means of support, and
show no signs of being employed, after three months they can be told to
go home.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
perhaps you don't want 'brexit'?
Of course I don't (although there are certainly areas where the EU could
be improved). But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
which is it? do be clear
See above.
Post by abelard
do you want the borders controlled or don't you?
But we already HAVE control of our borders. No goddamned furriners can
come here without obeying our rules. While EU citizens don't need work
permits as such, unless they have job (or the prospect of getting one),
or are self-supporting, EU citizens can only come as visitors. Non-EU
citizens need work permits - and some, even as visitors, need visas.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
Post by abelard
why do you suppose the 7 or 8% of uk gdp to the eu should
than any more than a small hit...if that?
I don't want ANY hit.
Post by abelard
and the much larger imports from the eu? are they going
to stop selling to us?
Who said they are?
Post by abelard
just what are you rabbiting on about?
I'm just trying to put you (and people like you) right about things.
Admittedly, membership of the EU has its problems and drawbacks - but
these are nothing like those that are going to hit us if we don't leave
without an agreement that is very similar to what we already have.
If it really IS a problem, nothing would please me more than if we could
have some modicum of limitation on the numbers coming here to work (to
be applied only when necessary). Unfortunately, successive governments
have totally ignored our ability to use the amount of control we have
had all along - because if they had, we probably wouldn't have had this
clamour to leave the EU. [Was this ignorance, or did they have an
ulterior motive?]
But you probably knew this already (at least I hope you did).
i thought that was approx your position..
It's EXACTLY my position.
what may look exact internally to you is only through a dark
glass to others
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
perhaps you were getting bit hysterical! which was confusing me...
Yet again.......
Perhaps I wasn't.
it was confusing me
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
not being a marxist, i don't believe most things are all about
money...
I don't expect that Marx did either.
i leave you to study the further
Post by Ian Jackson
While I'm usually on the side of those shouting "Up the workers!", there
are times when I reply "Yes - Right up the workers! [They don't like it
up 'em, you know]."
some of them may well like it...don't generalise so
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
so i'm much more complacent than you express for yourself...
Any chance of a translation?
it would still probably remain dark for you
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
i'd like to see you response to mel...do i smell appeasement on the
morning breeze?
Ditto.
i will know better if you respond as suggested
--
www.abelard.org
Yellow
2018-07-21 17:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
But of course this might not be necessary if our negotiators actually do
manage to get us a good deal with the EU - one which, by obvious popular
opinion, is good for us all.
Post by abelard
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here
is there anything to stop them?
Yes. While they could all come as visitors (although heavens knows where
we could put them up!), they can't really come on spec to get a job or
to sponge off The State. If they have no visible means of support, and
show no signs of being employed, after three months they can be told to
go home.
But you knew this already (didn't you?).
You sound like O'Brien, claiming a fact is a lie when it is in fact, a
fact.

(He likes to class facts that support his position as facts, and facts
that do not as fake facts)

Legally there is absolutely *nothing* to stop every single person in the
EU coming to the UK tomorrow.

And as for your "3 month" rule - this is indeed in EU law but apparently
only 1 person in the whole of the EU has ever had it used against them
as it is impossible to enforce. And they were in Germany, not the UK.


<Quote>
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of
Citizens' Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be
deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or
public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is
allowed.

The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security
reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of
various factors are taken into account. These include how long the
person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and
financial situation, and how well they've integrated into society.

The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have
lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to
have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British
citizenship applications).

For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or
public security will justify expulsion. What a "serious" ground is must
be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the
directive as to what constitutes "serious". It must relate to a
fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful
immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion,
countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.

The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the
last ten years - or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of
public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, "imperative"
grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers
no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than
"serious" grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the
more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being
involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of
public security, but the general meaning of "imperative" remains
unclear.
<unquote>


<sources>
https://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-
according-to-the-law-86896

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?
uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF
Yellow
2018-07-21 16:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour pro-Brexit
spot this morning.
<..>
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Yellow
So when someone who's opinion you agree with does this it is all fine
and dandy but when someone you do not agree with behaves, according to
your description, exactly the same, you throw your toys out of the pram.
Funny. :-)
Unfortunately, Brexit isn't funny.
You, however, are. Because you are ecstatic when the propaganda is
promoting your position and go through the roof when it isn't.:-)

You simply have no self awareness when it comes to this.
Post by Ian Jackson
Neither is it a game or a 4th Form
school debate. It's deadly serious. It's rather worrying when you get
supposedly respected MPs saying that the EU is worse than the Mafia, and
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is doing his best to wreck Brexit.
I read yesterday that the Chancellor wishes to give people from the EU
first dibs at UK jobs before they are offered to the rest of the world.

Not sure what he wanted in exchange for this concession, if anything.
Post by Ian Jackson
He also says that, at the moment, there is nothing to stop every EU
citizen coming over here - which is (of course) only one of his
absolutely toe-curling lies.
So legally speaking, what do you believe is stopping every EU citizen
from moving to the UK if that was what they all chose to do?
Post by Ian Jackson
Unfortunately, his followers still can't
see through him, and they willingly lap up all this rubbish.
As you lap up every word O'Brien says.

Take some advice - take it all with a pinch of salt and try to remember
that there are opinionated people on both sides of the debate
Post by Ian Jackson
If you
don't believe me, have a listen-again (if it's available) to his
broadcast.
As it happens, the radio alarm was accidentally was set to come on mid
morning so I heard the last 10 minutes, a little before he lost his
connection and until he came back and promoted the local fete.

So I heard just one caller and he suggested that remainers should be
supporting leaving the EU because then when there is a pro-EU government
(or perhaps a referendum) and we re-join we would have to join the Euro
and the Schengen agreement which surely they would want.

If that was not to your taste, then try Any Answers, where one caller
suggested that as the vote was so close there should be a compromise and
that compromise should be that we retain the 4 freedoms. He could see no
problem with these freedoms himself and failed to understand why anyone
else should.
Pamela
2018-07-21 17:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The
Pledge where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once
again the diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that
Brexit is the right thing to do.
LBC provided Archbishop Jake Ree-Smug with yet another 2-hour
pro-Brexit spot this morning. As certain other LBC presenters have
commented, a lot of the time he either tells lies, or he actually
really doesn't know what he's talking about. A lot of what he says
now verges on hate-speech. He's a very dangerous man.
As a rule, Rees-Mogg's arguments are surprisingly poorly informed.
His facts are often very ill-founded and he shows a lack of
understanding of practical implementation of what he advocates.

Too often, he quite literally doesn't know what he's talking about
although speaking as a self-confident quaint toff helps to mask his
ignorance.
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into
religious fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside
of a no deal Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would
be to persuade Americans to give up their guns or creationists to
start looking at Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it
has been shown unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well
informed about all the details of what leaving the EU means. And
now, secretly, a number of the more intelligent ones,
comparatively, reluctantly accept, to themselves in private, if to
no one else, that it WILL be very, very bad for the UK if we crash
out without a deal. But the one thing Brexiters find most
difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot, must not, will
not own up to having got their new religion wrong.
Archbishop Jake is certainly intolerant of any caller who dares to
suggest that we were all badly and often incorrectly informed
about the consequences of leaving the EU.
A radio show would seem like an ideal soap box but I'm not at all
sure Rees-Mogg puts himself across well.
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a
belief system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit.
Perhaps an old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could
be re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least
there'd be somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
Those who believe in the power of prayer need to pray for us all -
for forgiveness for the wicked lying Brexiteer leaders, for the
enlightenment of their benighted but essentially innocent flock,
and for all of us that we be delivered from the obvious fate we're
about to suffer and endure.
--
Brexit is a massive con job.
Now the wheels are coming off the Brexit clown car.
Norman Wells
2018-07-21 18:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
As a rule, Rees-Mogg's arguments are surprisingly poorly informed.
His facts are often very ill-founded and he shows a lack of
understanding of practical implementation of what he advocates.
Too often, he quite literally doesn't know what he's talking about
although speaking as a self-confident quaint toff helps to mask his
ignorance.
So you say.

With no justification of your position whatsoever.

As usual.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-21 13:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge where
once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the diehard
Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the right
thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour.
Politics and economics have this in common: that those who take an
interest, flatter themselves that the subject is complex. It isn't.

Politics is just self interest. It is using power to further one's own
aims - or, in the modern, 'representative' context, those of one's tribe,
caste, group, whatever.

Brexit is really about protecting what you have, against 'the other' - in
this case, the brown-skinned people who you think are going to come and
steal your food, your money, your job.

Very few of the immigrants entering Britain right now, pose an existential
threat to the existence of the British state, or to the cultural, economic
and political hegemony created and enjoyed by 'the white Christian'. But
at the end of the day, Nigel Farage and his accolytes don't like to walk
down the street and hear someone speaking Arabic. And that's why UKIP was
created.

It really is as simple as a UKIP MEP's eight brain cells.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Women cannot complain about men anymore until they start getting
better taste in them'
(Bill Mahler)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
abelard
2018-07-21 14:57:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 14:52:55 +0100, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge where
once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the diehard
Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the right
thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour.
Politics and economics have this in common: that those who take an
interest, flatter themselves that the subject is complex. It isn't.
Politics is just self interest. It is using power to further one's own
aims - or, in the modern, 'representative' context, those of one's tribe,
caste, group, whatever.
Brexit is really about protecting what you have, against 'the other' - in
this case, the brown-skinned people who you think are going to come and
steal your food, your money, your job.
Very few of the immigrants entering Britain right now, pose an existential
threat to the existence of the British state, or to the cultural, economic
and political hegemony created and enjoyed by 'the white Christian'. But
at the end of the day, Nigel Farage and his accolytes don't like to walk
down the street and hear someone speaking Arabic. And that's why UKIP was
created.
It really is as simple as a UKIP MEP's eight brain cells.
you have 'race' on your 7 cell head pork pie...

there are 1.2 billion people in africa

that's what comes of being innumerate...nothing to do with skin...
a great deal to do with numbers
--
www.abelard.org
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2018-07-22 09:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 14:52:55 +0100, Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the
right thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour.
Politics and economics have this in common: that those who take an
interest, flatter themselves that the subject is complex. It isn't.
Politics is just self interest. It is using power to further one's own
aims - or, in the modern, 'representative' context, those of one's tribe,
caste, group, whatever.
Brexit is really about protecting what you have, against 'the other' - in
this case, the brown-skinned people who you think are going to come and
steal your food, your money, your job.
Very few of the immigrants entering Britain right now, pose an
existential threat to the existence of the British state, or to the
cultural, economic and political hegemony created and enjoyed by 'the
white Christian'. But at the end of the day, Nigel Farage and his
accolytes don't like to walk down the street and hear someone speaking
Arabic. And that's why UKIP was created.
It really is as simple as a UKIP MEP's eight brain cells.
you have 'race' on your 7 cell head pork pie...
there are 1.2 billion people in africa
that's what comes of being innumerate...nothing to do with skin... a
great deal to do with numbers
Another vacuous oral 'fart' from the right-wing dullard who loves the sound
of his own 'voice'.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'The same Europe that let Jews be exterminated on its soil is letting
Jews be exterminated now, looking away and letting itself off the
hook...'
(Giulio Meotti)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
shutdown
2018-07-21 19:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the diehard
Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the right
thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number of
the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very bad
for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing Brexiters
find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot, must not,
will not own up to having got their new religion wrong. Therefore, the
only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief system with
oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an old church
somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be re-consecrated as The
Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be somewhere to pray for the
Brexiters among us.
MM
= that round table thing (sky news)
.i don't know which one of them is the most irritating.
coming out with shit like (earlier) "the majority of people would still
vote for brexit"
Yellow
2018-07-21 19:25:18 UTC
Permalink
In article <pj00q6$8sj$***@dont-email.me>, ***@asdsf.org
says...
Post by shutdown
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the diehard
Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the right
thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number of
the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very bad
for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing Brexiters
find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot, must not,
will not own up to having got their new religion wrong. Therefore, the
only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief system with
oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an old church
somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be re-consecrated as The
Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be somewhere to pray for the
Brexiters among us.
MM
= that round table thing (sky news)
.i don't know which one of them is the most irritating.
coming out with shit like (earlier) "the majority of people would still
vote for brexit"
Why do you believe the assertion that the majority of people would still
vote for brexit is shit?
abelard
2018-07-21 19:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
says...
Post by shutdown
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the diehard
Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is the right
thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about all
the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a number of
the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly accept, to
themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be very, very bad
for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one thing Brexiters
find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They cannot, must not,
will not own up to having got their new religion wrong. Therefore, the
only solution for them is to fall back on to a belief system with
oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit. Perhaps an old church
somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be re-consecrated as The
Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be somewhere to pray for the
Brexiters among us.
MM
= that round table thing (sky news)
.i don't know which one of them is the most irritating.
coming out with shit like (earlier) "the majority of people would still
vote for brexit"
Why do you believe the assertion that the majority of people would still
vote for brexit is shit?
1)because that is what he wants to believe
2)because he believes that if other believe his rubbish, they
will vote the way he wishes because all socialists believe
that everyone else is a sheep just like them(projection)
--
www.abelard.org
shutdown
2018-07-21 19:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
says...
Post by shutdown
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is
the right thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about
all the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a
number of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly
accept, to themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be
very, very bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one
thing Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They
cannot, must not, will not own up to having got their new religion
wrong. Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a
belief system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit.
Perhaps an old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
MM
= that round table thing (sky news)
.i don't know which one of them is the most irritating.
coming out with shit like (earlier) "the majority of people would still
vote for brexit"
Why do you believe the assertion that the majority of people would still
vote for brexit is shit?
one of them came out with it -- it has been the line around that 'round
table'

it's not the case, as 1 other pointed out

absolubtely not

nobody has any idea what it'll look like and its the final hour -- they
did not plan

the £ is fked - investment has withdrawn. the high street is fkd

it is not the case. it is only the propaganda that states it is the case

absolubtely not the case

there is not confidence in these fascists -- the baseless financial
freaks like 'rees-mogg' lying clowns like boris johnson

the gloating may
Yellow
2018-07-21 20:01:01 UTC
Permalink
In article <pj020o$g2f$***@dont-email.me>, ***@asdsf.org
says...
Post by shutdown
Post by Yellow
says...
Post by shutdown
Post by MM
Once again, Sky News yesterday produced a new edition of The Pledge
where once again the topic of Brexit came up, and once again the
diehard Brexiters on the panel were still convinced that Brexit is
the right thing to do.
Their unwavering position on Brexit is now descending into religious
fervour. An absolute refusal to acknowledge any downside of a no deal
Brexit is just as impossible to challenge as it would be to persuade
Americans to give up their guns or creationists to start looking at
Darwin. This doesn't surprise me very much, as it has been shown
unequivocally that most Brexit voters were not well informed about
all the details of what leaving the EU means. And now, secretly, a
number of the more intelligent ones, comparatively, reluctantly
accept, to themselves in private, if to no one else, that it WILL be
very, very bad for the UK if we crash out without a deal. But the one
thing Brexiters find most difficult to deal with is ridicule. They
cannot, must not, will not own up to having got their new religion
wrong. Therefore, the only solution for them is to fall back on to a
belief system with oft-repeated mantras like Brexit means Brexit.
Perhaps an old church somewhere, instead of being sold off, could be
re-consecrated as The Church of Brexit, so that at least there'd be
somewhere to pray for the Brexiters among us.
MM
= that round table thing (sky news)
.i don't know which one of them is the most irritating.
coming out with shit like (earlier) "the majority of people would still
vote for brexit"
Why do you believe the assertion that the majority of people would still
vote for brexit is shit?
one of them came out with it -- it has been the line around that 'round
table'
it's not the case, as 1 other pointed out
absolubtely not
nobody has any idea what it'll look like and its the final hour -- they
did not plan
the £ is fked - investment has withdrawn. the high street is fkd
it is not the case. it is only the propaganda that states it is the case
absolubtely not the case
there is not confidence in these fascists -- the baseless financial
freaks like 'rees-mogg' lying clowns like boris johnson
the gloating may
That is just a rant and fails to address the question you were asked.
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