Discussion:
Sky News reports today that up to 80% of Brits living in Europe are NOT retired people
(too old to reply)
MM
2018-08-01 07:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.

For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.

Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?

One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"

One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.

https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880

MM
Handsome Jack
2018-08-01 08:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
Post by MM
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
Utter balls.
Post by MM
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
--
Jack
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-01 10:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
Utter balls.
No, but they would have to regularise - a compliance mountain for non EU in Belgium for example.
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
--
Jack
Pamela
2018-08-01 18:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live
in other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to
fund their lives and families. The Sky report this morning
highlights their plight in still not knowing what their status
will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would
have to apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British
nationality if she wanted to carry on living in Austria where
she has lived for the past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian
nationals to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole
story is a load of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising
as Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to
do so.
Freudian slip? :)
Handsome Jack
2018-08-03 12:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
Utter balls.
No, but they would have to regularise - a compliance mountain for non
EU in Belgium for example.
Rubbish. Every European country has non-nationals living in it. My own
brother is one. He became officially French resident years ago.
--
Jack
MM
2018-08-04 09:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.

[snip]
Post by Handsome Jack
Rubbish. Every European country has non-nationals living in it. My own
brother is one. He became officially French resident years ago.
But after Britain has left the EU, he will no longer be entitled to
the same rights as EU citizens. If he was born to a French parent,
either in France or abroad, he may be entitled to apply for French
citizenship. Otherwise, as a non-EU national after we've left, he will
be classed as an alien, albeit with a right to residency in France --
unless of course France decides to revoke such residency rights at
some point.

I suggest you get yourself clued up on citizenship and nationality.
Here's a start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law

MM
tim...
2018-08-05 08:40:49 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?

IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote

Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not

But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false

tim
MM
2018-08-06 09:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave. Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.

I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.

MM
tim...
2018-08-06 10:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.

they aren't the category of people being discussed here
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year

tim
Yellow
2018-08-06 13:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.
they aren't the category of people being discussed here
And in any case, it is almost impossible to enforce.

http://tinyurl.com/y7dduwcw

or

https://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-
according-to-the-law-86896
Post by tim...
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year
tim
MM
2018-08-07 07:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yellow
And in any case, it is almost impossible to enforce.
Yes, because the British border force does not keep track of who is
coming in and who is going out.

Blame the lackadaisical British authorities, not the EU. The EU kindly
made provision to get rid of scroungers, but we couldn't be arsed.

MM
MM
2018-08-07 07:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
It's not about whether their face fits, it's about the law, and no
authority can flout the law. If a foreigner no longer complies with
the law, by dint of a decision made back home, e.g. the referendum,
then that foreigner doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.
So what? It was a law available to the British government, which did
not take advantage of.
Post by tim...
they aren't the category of people being discussed here
You might ask yourself, after Brexit is any employer on the Continent
going to hire someone without checking their bona fide residency
rights?
Post by tim...
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year
Makes no difference how long if one needs either (a) to be a citizen
of a member EU country or (b) have the recognised nationality, which
in the case of Austria means a Brit would need to forego his British
nationality and apply for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship.

MM
tim...
2018-08-07 18:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
It's not about whether their face fits, it's about the law, and no
authority can flout the law. If a foreigner no longer complies with
the law, by dint of a decision made back home, e.g. the referendum,
then that foreigner doesn't have a leg to stand on.
don't be silly

all EU countries have legitimate registered residents who are from the set
of rEU citizens and of ROW citizens

all that the UK leaving the EU does is move UK citizens from one set to the
other
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.
So what? It was a law available to the British government, which did
not take advantage of.
because the point of discussion isn't why didn't the Brits take advantage of
it

it's can this random rEU country that the Brit is currently resident in take
advantage of it

and the answer is no, because the Brit in question isn't economically
inactive.
Post by MM
Post by tim...
they aren't the category of people being discussed here
You might ask yourself, after Brexit is any employer on the Continent
going to hire someone without checking their bona fide residency
rights?
but, by definition from the question they DO have bona fide resident rights.
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year
Makes no difference how long if one needs either (a) to be a citizen
of a member EU country or (b) have the recognised nationality, which
in the case of Austria means a Brit would need to forego his British
nationality and apply for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship.
No it doesn't

As has already been explained to you. It is perfectly possible to be a bona
fide resident of Austria without being an Austrian citizen

the two things are NOT intrinsically linked
MM
2018-08-08 08:32:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
It's not about whether their face fits, it's about the law, and no
authority can flout the law. If a foreigner no longer complies with
the law, by dint of a decision made back home, e.g. the referendum,
then that foreigner doesn't have a leg to stand on.
don't be silly
all EU countries have legitimate registered residents who are from the set
of rEU citizens and of ROW citizens
all that the UK leaving the EU does is move UK citizens from one set to the
other
Not true. At 23:01 on 29/Mar/19 UK citizens will cease to be members
of an EU state and any restrictions placed on aliens in the same
category will apply to them as well
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.
So what? It was a law available to the British government, which did
not take advantage of.
because the point of discussion isn't why didn't the Brits take advantage of
it
it's can this random rEU country that the Brit is currently resident in take
advantage of it
and the answer is no, because the Brit in question isn't economically
inactive.
And if his employment is terminated because his employer is now aware
of his changed residency rights? What then?
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
they aren't the category of people being discussed here
You might ask yourself, after Brexit is any employer on the Continent
going to hire someone without checking their bona fide residency
rights?
but, by definition from the question they DO have bona fide resident rights.
They do NOW, because Britain is still an EU state. After we leave,
those rights must and will change. You must surely be aware that up to
three million EU citizens living in the UK right now are extremely
concerned about what will happen to them after March 2019. It's been
all over the news for months. What makes you think that EU states are
going to bend over backwards and give UK nationals some kind of
special status that they wouldn't apply to, say, Canadian nationals or
Norwegian nationals?
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year
Makes no difference how long if one needs either (a) to be a citizen
of a member EU country or (b) have the recognised nationality, which
in the case of Austria means a Brit would need to forego his British
nationality and apply for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship.
No it doesn't
As has already been explained to you. It is perfectly possible to be a bona
fide resident of Austria without being an Austrian citizen
the two things are NOT intrinsically linked
Wait and see. I know that a million plus UK citizens currently living
abroad in the EU are very concerned about their changed status after
March 2019.

MM
Norman Wells
2018-08-08 08:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
They do NOW, because Britain is still an EU state. After we leave,
those rights must and will change. You must surely be aware that up to
three million EU citizens living in the UK right now are extremely
concerned about what will happen to them after March 2019. It's been
all over the news for months. What makes you think that EU states are
going to bend over backwards and give UK nationals some kind of
special status that they wouldn't apply to, say, Canadian nationals or
Norwegian nationals?
Perhaps *because* there are three million of their citizens living here,
and they will want them treated fairly too.
tim...
2018-08-08 13:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would
have
to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British
nationality
if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is
a
load
of shite.
You did miss the point - sure she can live there by naturalising as
Austrian, BUT would have to denounce her British nationality to do so.
Rubbish. You misunderstand. Austria *does* allow non-Austrian nationals
and non-EU nationals to live there. They just need to get a residence
visa of one kind or another, just as in any other country. They *don't*
have to change nationality.
Sure, but the clue is in the title: "non-EU nationals". I.e. British
nationals outside the EU will NOT be entitled to the same rights as EU
nationals -- unless they forego their British nationality and apply
for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship. A mere residence permit doesn't
cut it.
what rights do you think that registered residents don't get that
naturalised citizens do?
IME of living/working aboard (as a registered resident) the only one that
was missing was the right to vote
Annoying perhaps, fundamental effect on my lifestyle in the country not
But any idea that you might be trying to present that locally registered
(and tax paying) non-nationals living there don't get rights to benefits,
use of health care etc etc, is fundamentally false
Mere residency doesn't protect you from being forced to leave.
do you really think that any European country would force economically
active residents with valid entry paperwork to leave, on a whim?
It's not about whether their face fits, it's about the law, and no
authority can flout the law. If a foreigner no longer complies with
the law, by dint of a decision made back home, e.g. the referendum,
then that foreigner doesn't have a leg to stand on.
don't be silly
all EU countries have legitimate registered residents who are from the set
of rEU citizens and of ROW citizens
all that the UK leaving the EU does is move UK citizens from one set to the
other
Not true. At 23:01 on 29/Mar/19 UK citizens will cease to be members
of an EU state and any restrictions placed on aliens in the same
category will apply to them as well
Isn't that exactly what I said

they will move (administratively) from one set (the EU set) to the other
(the ROW set)
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Even
East European migrants to Britain could have been deported after six
months with no means of support, and this while we're still in the EU!
The British government did not take advantage of this EU rule, but it
was there nevertheless.
That's because they are scroungers.
So what? It was a law available to the British government, which did
not take advantage of.
because the point of discussion isn't why didn't the Brits take advantage of
it
it's can this random rEU country that the Brit is currently resident in take
advantage of it
and the answer is no, because the Brit in question isn't economically
inactive.
And if his employment is terminated because his employer is now aware
of his changed residency rights? What then?
but why would it be?
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
they aren't the category of people being discussed here
You might ask yourself, after Brexit is any employer on the Continent
going to hire someone without checking their bona fide residency
rights?
but, by definition from the question they DO have bona fide resident rights.
They do NOW, because Britain is still an EU state. After we leave,
those rights must and will change. You must surely be aware that up to
three million EU citizens living in the UK right now are extremely
concerned about what will happen to them after March 2019. It's been
all over the news for months. What makes you think that EU states are
going to bend over backwards and give UK nationals some kind of
special status that they wouldn't apply to, say, Canadian nationals or
Norwegian nationals?
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by tim...
Post by MM
I remember a particular time during my working career as a guest
worker in West Germany when there was a recession and people were
being laid off all over the place. But the fact that because I had
already spent five years there meant I couldn't be fired so easily.
Those foreigners that were, were given pretty short shrift by the
Arbeitsamt and told to go home.
but we aren't discussing people who have only been there a year
Makes no difference how long if one needs either (a) to be a citizen
of a member EU country or (b) have the recognised nationality, which
in the case of Austria means a Brit would need to forego his British
nationality and apply for (and obtain) Austrian citizenship.
No it doesn't
As has already been explained to you. It is perfectly possible to be a bona
fide resident of Austria without being an Austrian citizen
the two things are NOT intrinsically linked
Wait and see. I know that a million plus UK citizens currently living
abroad in the EU are very concerned about their changed status after
March 2019.
only because they have been wound up by nonsensical press stories to think
that way

tim
MM
2018-08-09 08:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[snip]
Post by tim...
Isn't that exactly what I said
they will move (administratively) from one set (the EU set) to the other
(the ROW set)
But their rights to residency and employment as EU citizens prior to
29/Mar/19 will no longer exist. That's the point you keep trying to
avoid.

[snip]
Post by tim...
Post by MM
And if his employment is terminated because his employer is now aware
of his changed residency rights? What then?
but why would it be?
Because the employer wishes to comply with the law, which will have
changed in the case of UK citizens after we leave the EU.

[snip]
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Wait and see. I know that a million plus UK citizens currently living
abroad in the EU are very concerned about their changed status after
March 2019.
only because they have been wound up by nonsensical press stories to think
that way
Ah, it's all that fake news again! Good one.

MM
tim...
2018-08-09 12:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
[snip]
Post by tim...
Isn't that exactly what I said
they will move (administratively) from one set (the EU set) to the other
(the ROW set)
But their rights to residency and employment as EU citizens prior to
29/Mar/19 will no longer exist. That's the point you keep trying to
avoid.
but they'll move over to having the rights of residency of Non-EU citizens

which you seem to think don't exist
Post by MM
[snip]
Post by tim...
Post by MM
And if his employment is terminated because his employer is now aware
of his changed residency rights? What then?
but why would it be?
Because the employer wishes to comply with the law, which will have
changed in the case of UK citizens after we leave the EU.
only for people *looking* for work

people who are already gainfully employed will not lose any rights (to
employment)
MM
2018-08-10 07:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by MM
[snip]
Post by tim...
Isn't that exactly what I said
they will move (administratively) from one set (the EU set) to the other
(the ROW set)
But their rights to residency and employment as EU citizens prior to
29/Mar/19 will no longer exist. That's the point you keep trying to
avoid.
but they'll move over to having the rights of residency of Non-EU citizens
Provided their new status is acceptable to the host country. In the
case of Austria, to obtain the same rights as EU nationals, British
ex-pats would need to obtain Austrian citizenship because Austria does
not recognise dual nationality. It's very simple: The law applying to
British nationals in the EU will change after March 2019. I should
have thought you would welcome this change. After all, it is you
Brexiters who wanted all this, isn't it?
Post by tim...
which you seem to think don't exist
It will no longer be an EU matter after March 2019 in respect of
British nationals, but down to each individual country's laws
regarding residency rights and whether they can be applied to British
nationals.
Post by tim...
Post by MM
[snip]
Post by tim...
Post by MM
And if his employment is terminated because his employer is now aware
of his changed residency rights? What then?
but why would it be?
Because the employer wishes to comply with the law, which will have
changed in the case of UK citizens after we leave the EU.
only for people *looking* for work
So you agree, then, that all EU migrants currently in the UK can stay
here indefinitely with the exact same rights, including bringing other
family members over, sending money back to their own countries,
receiving benefits, and so on?
Post by tim...
people who are already gainfully employed will not lose any rights (to
employment)
Ah, so they WILL lose certain other rights! Glad you've finally
cottoned on. That's what our leaving the EU means. Shame you didn't
realise it much earlier, like before the referendum.

MM

JNugent
2018-08-01 11:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by MM
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
That would only be true if Austria never allowed non-Autsrian nationals
to live there. Since that is obviously false, the whole story is a load
of shite.
Post by MM
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
Utter balls.
Come off it.

It's not THAT good.
Norman Wells
2018-08-01 08:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we no
longer want to be a member?
GB
2018-08-01 10:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we no
longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
The Todal
2018-08-01 10:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Incubus
2018-08-01 10:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?

If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?

In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
GB
2018-08-01 10:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.

Incidentally, my point was not so much that brexiteers are rabid
racists, but there is irony in Norman's (feigned?) indignation.
Incubus
2018-08-01 10:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GB
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Post by GB
Incidentally, my point was not so much that brexiteers are rabid
racists, but there is irony in Norman's (feigned?) indignation.
Norman is a good source of irony - as much as 96% of one's recommended daily
intake in fact.

The fate of people who entered the UK or other EU countries to live and work
should be decided as a separate issue rather than being used in negotiations.
Norman Wells
2018-08-01 11:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.

Just like Vodaphone.
Incubus
2018-08-01 11:26:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.

Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
might interest you to know that Time magazine concurs with me:

http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
Norman Wells
2018-08-01 12:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.

And when you typed in 'Adolph Hitler' it corrected it and came up with
'Showing results for Adolf Hitler'. But that wasn't good enough for you
in your desperation to prove yourself right, was it? So, unable and
unwilling to accept the truth, you clicked on 'Search instead for Adolph
Hitler', and yippee you found something that would do, so you posted it
here.

Well done!

Had you actually looked at the posted edition of Time, however, rather
than naively and rather stupidly taken the YTS girl's link on the
website as gospel, you'd have found that Time Magazine does not in fact
concur with you at all, but with me and the rest of humanity barring the
totally ignorant.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html

"Adolf Hitler: Man of the Year, 1938" it says in big letters so you
can't miss it.
pensive hamster
2018-08-01 12:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.
Google informs me that the ghost of Adolph is in fact the ghost of
Adolph F. Rupp (1901 - 77), the "Winningest" coach in the history
of college basketball. His ghost has its own Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/GhostAdolphRupp

Quite why Incubus thinks that "the ghost of Adolph has been invoked
numerous times against those of us who wish to leave the EU" is unclear.

[..]
Incubus
2018-08-01 13:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Yes it is and you would be aware of that had you been more widely read.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.
Have you been taking lessons from Donald Trump?
Post by Norman Wells
And when you typed in 'Adolph Hitler' it corrected it and came up with
'Showing results for Adolf Hitler'. But that wasn't good enough for you
in your desperation to prove yourself right, was it? So, unable and
unwilling to accept the truth, you clicked on 'Search instead for Adolph
Hitler', and yippee you found something that would do, so you posted it
here.
Well done!
Had you actually looked at the posted edition of Time, however, rather
than naively and rather stupidly taken the YTS girl's link on the
website as gospel, you'd have found that Time Magazine does not in fact
concur with you at all, but with me and the rest of humanity barring the
totally ignorant.
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html
"Adolf Hitler: Man of the Year, 1938" it says in big letters so you
can't miss it.
Yet my link clearly says 'Adolph Hitler'. In any event, I don't need a news
article to tell me what I already know; that is, that 'Adolph' is the
Anglicised spelling and was commonly used years ago (alongside 'Adolf'). You
can sometimes see it still in use to-day:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soldier-his-sweetheart-and-the-suicide-of-hermann-goering-5386315.html

It is also usd in older US papers:

http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/649495
Norman Wells
2018-08-01 13:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Yes it is and you would be aware of that had you been more widely read.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.
Have you been taking lessons from Donald Trump?
Post by Norman Wells
And when you typed in 'Adolph Hitler' it corrected it and came up with
'Showing results for Adolf Hitler'. But that wasn't good enough for you
in your desperation to prove yourself right, was it? So, unable and
unwilling to accept the truth, you clicked on 'Search instead for Adolph
Hitler', and yippee you found something that would do, so you posted it
here.
Well done!
Had you actually looked at the posted edition of Time, however, rather
than naively and rather stupidly taken the YTS girl's link on the
website as gospel, you'd have found that Time Magazine does not in fact
concur with you at all, but with me and the rest of humanity barring the
totally ignorant.
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html
"Adolf Hitler: Man of the Year, 1938" it says in big letters so you
can't miss it.
Yet my link clearly says 'Adolph Hitler'. In any event, I don't need a news
article to tell me what I already know; that is, that 'Adolph' is the
Anglicised spelling and was commonly used years ago (alongside 'Adolf').
There's no need for an anglicised spelling, and there never was. Adolf
is perfectly pronounceable in English. Why would anyone want to change it?
Post by Incubus
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soldier-his-sweetheart-and-the-suicide-of-hermann-goering-5386315.html
http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/649495
You can find any mistake you like somewhere on Google, usually by the
terminally ignorant.

You've probably added to such search results now, so the next person who
comes along will be even more impressed with the number of inaccuracies.
Incubus
2018-08-01 14:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Yes it is and you would be aware of that had you been more widely read.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.
Have you been taking lessons from Donald Trump?
Post by Norman Wells
And when you typed in 'Adolph Hitler' it corrected it and came up with
'Showing results for Adolf Hitler'. But that wasn't good enough for you
in your desperation to prove yourself right, was it? So, unable and
unwilling to accept the truth, you clicked on 'Search instead for Adolph
Hitler', and yippee you found something that would do, so you posted it
here.
Well done!
Had you actually looked at the posted edition of Time, however, rather
than naively and rather stupidly taken the YTS girl's link on the
website as gospel, you'd have found that Time Magazine does not in fact
concur with you at all, but with me and the rest of humanity barring the
totally ignorant.
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html
"Adolf Hitler: Man of the Year, 1938" it says in big letters so you
can't miss it.
Yet my link clearly says 'Adolph Hitler'. In any event, I don't need a news
article to tell me what I already know; that is, that 'Adolph' is the
Anglicised spelling and was commonly used years ago (alongside 'Adolf').
There's no need for an anglicised spelling, and there never was. Adolf
is perfectly pronounceable in English. Why would anyone want to change it?
No one changed it; 'Adolph' was the usual spelling in English speaking
countries but Hitler's spelling gained prominence.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soldier-his-sweetheart-and-the-suicide-of-hermann-goering-5386315.html
http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/649495
You can find any mistake you like somewhere on Google, usually by the
terminally ignorant.
It isn't a mistake. You're just too ignorant to understand the orthography of
the English language.
abelard
2018-08-01 17:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:25:46 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
In fact, 'Adolph' is the older British spelling.
Not of his name it isn't.
Yes it is and you would be aware of that had you been more widely read.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Given that you place much stock in the opinion of critics and awards bodies, it
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19390102,00.html
You did a Google search, didn't you, because you knew someone somewhere
would have got it wrong and you could then parade it here as being an
alternative truth.
Have you been taking lessons from Donald Trump?
Post by Norman Wells
And when you typed in 'Adolph Hitler' it corrected it and came up with
'Showing results for Adolf Hitler'. But that wasn't good enough for you
in your desperation to prove yourself right, was it? So, unable and
unwilling to accept the truth, you clicked on 'Search instead for Adolph
Hitler', and yippee you found something that would do, so you posted it
here.
Well done!
Had you actually looked at the posted edition of Time, however, rather
than naively and rather stupidly taken the YTS girl's link on the
website as gospel, you'd have found that Time Magazine does not in fact
concur with you at all, but with me and the rest of humanity barring the
totally ignorant.
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html
"Adolf Hitler: Man of the Year, 1938" it says in big letters so you
can't miss it.
Yet my link clearly says 'Adolph Hitler'. In any event, I don't need a news
article to tell me what I already know; that is, that 'Adolph' is the
Anglicised spelling and was commonly used years ago (alongside 'Adolf'). You
you are correct of course...i also use it regularly because it
annoys national socialists who worship ded old mad adolph
Post by Incubus
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soldier-his-sweetheart-and-the-suicide-of-hermann-goering-5386315.html
http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/649495
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-01 12:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
Not always, though in the case of the infamous ex-Kanzler of Germany,
there should be an F in Adolf.
Post by Norman Wells
Just like Vodaphone.
abelard
2018-08-01 17:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
Not always, though in the case of the infamous ex-Kanzler of Germany,
there should be an F in Adolf.
should eh...

is it a venial or mortal sin to call the crispy corpse, ady or
adolphus?

i tort i say a pussy cat...someone called it a dog...
but it grew not one inch higher
--
www.abelard.org
Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
2018-08-01 18:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
Not always, though in the case of the infamous ex-Kanzler of Germany,
there should be an F in Adolf.
should eh...
is it a venial or mortal sin to call the crispy corpse, ady or
adolphus?
i tort i say a pussy cat...someone called it a dog...
but it grew not one inch higher
I told you; you should have gone phor a lie down.
abelard
2018-08-01 18:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 19:14:57 +0100, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Incubus
Post by GB
You jest, but Hitler partly funded his war machine that way.
I am aware of that; the ghost of Adolph has been invoked numerous
times against
those of us who wish to leave the EU.
Adolph is spelt with an effing 'f'.
Not always, though in the case of the infamous ex-Kanzler of Germany,
there should be an F in Adolf.
should eh...
is it a venial or mortal sin to call the crispy corpse, ady or
adolphus?
i tort i say a pussy cat...someone called it a dog...
but it grew not one inch higher
I told you; you should have gone phor a lie down.
i never lie...stop with the snide comments

and answer my troubling qs instead
--
www.abelard.org
abelard
2018-08-01 10:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:32:03 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
i believe the toad is most concerned by the amount of light
they reflect
--
www.abelard.org
Incubus
2018-08-01 10:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:32:03 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
i believe the toad is most concerned by the amount of light
they reflect
Well, it simply won't do - all these foreigners coming here, absorbing all our
sunlight. Such an outrage is intolerable.
abelard
2018-08-01 10:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:58:16 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by abelard
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:32:03 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems? Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely. We can confiscate all their property and give it to the NHS!
i believe the toad is most concerned by the amount of light
they reflect
Well, it simply won't do - all these foreigners coming here, absorbing all our
sunlight. Such an outrage is intolerable.
how do they get away with it!

it's an outrage...i'd rite to the groaniad but they'd only
censor me

i blame mi5 and the masons
--
www.abelard.org
tim...
2018-08-01 18:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems?
Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely.
like the Angles and the Saxons, you mean?

tim
Tim
2018-08-02 05:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems?
Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely.
like the Angles and the Saxons, you mean?
tim
Only those with pre Bell beaker ancestry should be allowed to stay .
MM
2018-08-02 08:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by GB
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we
no longer want to be a member?
Surely, many brexiteers are itching to expel all the immigrants?
Now, you know that's not true. It's actually the Asians they want to expel.
Isn't 'Asian' Cultural Marxist Newspeak for Moslem?
If we're to be accused of being racist, why stop short at the Moslems?
Surely
we wish to expel all the blackamoors?
In fact, given how xenophobic we are, let's just get rid of Johhny Foreigner
entirely.
like the Angles and the Saxons, you mean?
That should be the Right Angles, 'cos we're always right, innit.

MM
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-01 10:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we no
longer want to be a member?
You seem to forget the racist undertones of the Leave campaign. Sadly, one of its principle selling points is that we would be able to stop and reverse the tide of unwanted immigrants from eastern Europe. Is it any surprise when they are not inclined to make special arrangements for Brit's in their countries?

It's another cake and eat scenario - we can send the Poles and Slav's home, but Brits should be able to carry on living and working in the EU without hindrance.
The Todal
2018-08-01 11:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
If that's how EU countries treat their guests, is it any surprise we no
longer want to be a member?
You seem to forget the racist undertones of the Leave campaign. Sadly, one of its principle selling points is that we would be able to stop and reverse the tide of unwanted immigrants from eastern Europe. Is it any surprise when they are not inclined to make special arrangements for Brit's in their countries?
It's another cake and eat scenario - we can send the Poles and Slav's home, but Brits should be able to carry on living and working in the EU without hindrance.
Rule Britannia. Britannia waives the rules....
Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
2018-08-01 08:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
MM
Is there a manned border post between Belgium and the Netherlands?

If not, there is nothing to stop anyone from crossing the border as many
times as they wish.
Ian Jackson
2018-08-01 11:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
MM
Is there a manned border post between Belgium and the Netherlands?
Just south of Breda, there used to be a whole 'village', the purpose of
which was to deal with the customs on goods traffic crossing to and from
Belgium. This was on the 'old road', and trucks and any other traffic
requiring the involvement of a customs officer had to pass that way. The
'village' consisted of the obvious customs offices and agents,
restaurants, cafes, pubs, hotels and brothels. However, the whole thing
was bypassed by a motorway - and although there was a sort of 'bus-stop'
border post where you might sometimes find a couple of border officials,
no one normally needed to stop there.
Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
If not, there is nothing to stop anyone from crossing the border as many
times as they wish.
Like Ireland, in some cases the border historically passes through some
people's living rooms etc.
--
Ian
MM
2018-08-01 11:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:43:34 +0100, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
MM
Is there a manned border post between Belgium and the Netherlands?
If not, there is nothing to stop anyone from crossing the border as many
times as they wish.
If a British guest worker no longer has the entitlement to move
between EU states, then it's doubtful whether his job would continue.
Why would a Dutch employer risk a whole load of hassle with the new
status of British employees if said employer can hire EU nationals
instead?

MM
JNugent
2018-08-01 12:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Post by MM
Contrary to popular belief, around 80% of the British who live in
other EU states are NOT retired, but depend on a daily job to fund
their lives and families. The Sky report this morning highlights their
plight in still not knowing what their status will be after Brexit.
For example, Austria and the Netherlands do not allow dual
nationality. One person living in Austria said that she would have to
apply for Austrian citizenship and forego her British nationality if
she wanted to carry on living in Austria where she has lived for the
past 20 years.
Dozens of other similar stories are now emerging. Many Brits are
married to EU nationals and are wondering that if they, the Brits,
have to return to the UK, what is the status/rights of their spouse?
And their children? One woman has two biological children and two
adopted children. Again, what would become of the adoptees following
Brexit?
One guy told how he lives in Belgium, but works in the Netherlands.
Most distances in the Benelux countries are short, because they're all
small countries. But without freedom of movement, it may no longer be
possible to cross the border each morning and evening in order to hold
down a job. Do Brexiters simply shrug and say, "Not our problem!"
One thing is becoming clear: If we crash out without a deal, all the
1.5 million Brits in Europe will become illegal immigrants overnight.
https://news.sky.com/video/brits-abroad-brexit-fears-11455880
MM
Is there a manned border post between Belgium and the Netherlands?
If not, there is nothing to stop anyone from crossing the border as many
times as they wish.
The physical evidence of the border posts remain (eg, on the motorway
between Brussels and Breda), but they are not manned.

I expect they are left in place in case they ever become relevant again.
MM
2018-08-02 08:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
I expect they are left in place in case they ever become relevant again.
For British visitors, you mean.

MM
JNugent
2018-08-02 10:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
I expect they are left in place in case they ever become relevant again.
For British visitors, you mean.
Do I?

Since you are never even sure of what you mean, it's a bit rich...
[continued overleaf]
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