Discussion:
The results of migration begining to show through.
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harry
2018-06-12 06:14:37 UTC
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
kat
2018-06-12 07:19:36 UTC
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Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all to do with
migration?
--
kat
Post by harry
^..^<
Nightjar
2018-06-12 08:56:51 UTC
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Post by kat
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all to do
with migration?
When has Harry ever allowed facts to get in the way of his prejudices?

What I find interesting is that they say it may be linked to changes in
teaching methods. Perhaps decimalisation is in there somewhere as well.
When I were a lad, we had to think in base 12 (pennies in a shilling /
inches in a foot) base 20 (shillings in a pound / cwt in a ton) base 16
(ounces in a pound) base 14 (pounds in a stone) base 8 (pints in a
gallon / stones in a cwt) etc.
--
--

Colin Bignell
kat
2018-06-12 16:12:53 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by kat
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all to do with
migration?
When has Harry ever allowed facts to get in the way of his prejudices?
I had to call him on it - people might have thought the poor DM had said it and
that was one accusation it didn't deserve! :-)
Post by Nightjar
What I find interesting is that they say it may be linked to changes in teaching
methods. Perhaps decimalisation is in there somewhere as well. When I were a
lad, we had to think in base 12 (pennies in a shilling / inches in a foot) base
20 (shillings in a pound / cwt in a ton) base 16 (ounces in a pound) base 14
(pounds in a stone) base 8 (pints in a gallon / stones in a cwt) etc.
Which certainly made us better at arithmetic, made us think harder, didn't it.

I was also reading about the poor kids now who have to remember the books and
poems they studied as they can't take the texts into exams - and it's far too
hard, said the teacher! I didn't get to take texts in with me either, and we
didn't freak out.
--
kat
Post by Nightjar
^..^<
pamela
2018-06-12 16:26:54 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by kat
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-peop
le-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all
to do with migration?
When has Harry ever allowed facts to get in the way of his
prejudices?
What I find interesting is that they say it may be linked to
changes in teaching methods. Perhaps decimalisation is in there
somewhere as well. When I were a lad, we had to think in base 12
(pennies in a shilling / inches in a foot) base 20 (shillings in a
pound / cwt in a ton) base 16 (ounces in a pound) base 14 (pounds
in a stone) base 8 (pints in a gallon / stones in a cwt) etc.
To say nothing of working with fractions like 1/32.

There were little books giving the conversion between rods and perches,
bushels and US gallons, etc. And at the other end of the book you
might have had log tables.

The kids of today don't .... :)

The Daily Mail probably wants to bring it all back.
kat
2018-06-12 17:14:59 UTC
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Post by pamela
Post by Nightjar
Post by kat
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-peop
le-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all
to do with migration?
When has Harry ever allowed facts to get in the way of his
prejudices?
What I find interesting is that they say it may be linked to
changes in teaching methods. Perhaps decimalisation is in there
somewhere as well. When I were a lad, we had to think in base 12
(pennies in a shilling / inches in a foot) base 20 (shillings in a
pound / cwt in a ton) base 16 (ounces in a pound) base 14 (pounds
in a stone) base 8 (pints in a gallon / stones in a cwt) etc.
To say nothing of working with fractions like 1/32.
There were little books giving the conversion between rods and perches,
bushels and US gallons, etc. And at the other end of the book you
might have had log tables.
The kids of today don't .... :)
The Daily Mail probably wants to bring it all back.
It might, but it doesn't say so in that article! There again, I don't recall
having a little book with conversions of rods, perches and US gallons. I did
have a book with logs and sine and cosine tables and I guess they use technology
for that these days. Something else the Norwegian scientists thought could be to
blame.
--
kat
Post by pamela
^..^<
harry
2018-06-12 09:32:24 UTC
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Post by kat
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
And just where does that article suggest it has anything at all to do with
migration?
--
kat
Post by harry
^..^<
Obviously migrant kids are included in the statistic.
People who never discovered the wheel.

IQ tests are nothing to do with education.
They are designed to test the intelligence of people with or without education.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification
Nightjar
2018-06-12 10:49:36 UTC
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On 12/06/2018 10:32, harry wrote:
...
Post by harry
IQ tests are nothing to do with education.
They are designed to test the intelligence of people with or without education....
It has been shown that the levels of cognitive stimulation that children
receive does have a significant effect on their scores in IQ tests.
Those who have a more challenging environment at school and / or at
home, do better. So, while being educated may not, in itself, have an
effect, the way in which they are educated does.
--
--

Colin Bignell
R. Mark Clayton
2018-06-12 17:39:26 UTC
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Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -

Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104

rather than just relying on their prejudices
AnthonyL
2018-06-13 11:25:20 UTC
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 10:39:26 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Just the right sort of nationalities to welcome to this country as
undoubtably they will bring high skills particularly in engineering
and design.

Are those the countries we get most migration from?
--
AnthonyL
harry
2018-06-14 05:50:11 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/05/highereducation.research
Nightjar
2018-06-14 08:43:41 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
Poland, Pakistan, Ireland, and Germany, in that order:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
--
--

Colin Bignell
tim...
2018-06-14 09:54:11 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
The thing about simple lists like this is that it doesn't explain how/when
the groups came here

The majority of the Italians are likely to have come here in the immediately
post war period rather than within the last 10

and when you look at the explanation for Germany, it seems that the majority
are are British nationals, who were born in Germany to British military
personnel based there.

tim
GB
2018-06-14 10:33:21 UTC
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The daft thing about this entire thread is that the DM article is about
a study in Norway.

"In the latest study Ole Rogeburg and Bernt Bratsberg, of the Ragnar
Frisch Centre for Economic Research in Oslo, found that Norwegian men's
IQs are lower than the scores of their fathers when they were the same age.

The pair analysed the scores from a standard IQ test of over 730,000 men
– who reported for national service between 1970 and 2009."

So, it has nothing whatsoever to do with UK immigration. That's just
Harry's subject line, and as we all know Harry does not bother to read
the articles he links to or apply any critical faculties to them.

Furthermore, AFAIK, Norway has not had much immigration, and to be
eligible for national service in 2009 any immigrants would have had to
arrive a good few years ago.

There are lots of possible explanations for the results found. Just as
an example of what *might* be happening:
1. Norway has got much richer in recent years because of oil and gas, and so
2. More people are being funded to do PhDs, and
3. People doing PhDs don't have to do national service, so
4. A good chunk of the people with highest IQs are not doing national
service and not having their IQs measured, so
5. The average IQ measured drops.
Nightjar
2018-06-14 15:42:06 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank       Country    IQ
1        Hong Kong    108
1        Singapore    108
2        South Korea  106
3        Japan        105
3        China        105
4        Taiwan       104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
The thing about simple lists like this is that it doesn't explain
how/when the groups came here...
Harry already knows that they came here to live off benefits, take all
the jobs (he sees no discrepancy there) and to ravage our women.
--
--

Colin Bignell
Incubus
2018-06-14 15:57:49 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by tim...
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank       Country    IQ
1        Hong Kong    108
1        Singapore    108
2        South Korea  106
3        Japan        105
3        China        105
4        Taiwan       104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
The thing about simple lists like this is that it doesn't explain
how/when the groups came here...
Harry already knows that they came here to live off benefits, take all
the jobs (he sees no discrepancy there) and to ravage our women.
Don't you mean ravish? Time will ravage them soon enough.
Nightjar
2018-06-14 17:49:33 UTC
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On 14/06/2018 16:57, Incubus wrote:
...
Post by Incubus
Don't you mean ravish? Time will ravage them soon enough.
Indeed, I did, but autocorrect obviously had other ideas.
--
--

Colin Bignell
harry
2018-06-14 19:03:45 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by tim...
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank       Country    IQ
1        Hong Kong    108
1        Singapore    108
2        South Korea  106
3        Japan        105
3        China        105
4        Taiwan       104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
The thing about simple lists like this is that it doesn't explain
how/when the groups came here...
Harry already knows that they came here to live off benefits, take all
the jobs (he sees no discrepancy there) and to ravage our women.
Oh, is that so?
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/2011-census-british-africans-now-dominant-black-group


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/rape-adultery.aspx
Nightjar
2018-06-15 08:26:05 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by Nightjar
Post by tim...
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank       Country    IQ
1        Hong Kong    108
1        Singapore    108
2        South Korea  106
3        Japan        105
3        China        105
4        Taiwan       104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
People with the lowest IQ come from Africa.
Exactly where our immigrants are coming from.
According to Wikipedia, in 2015 the largest numbers came from India,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
The thing about simple lists like this is that it doesn't explain
how/when the groups came here...
Harry already knows that they came here to live off benefits, take all
the jobs (he sees no discrepancy there) and to ravage our women.
Oh, is that so?
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/2011-census-british-africans-now-dominant-black-group....
Which simply demonstrates how statistics can be manipulated. They are
the largest proportion of the smallest group of the foreign born
population of Britain. 8.9% of the foreign born population identified as
Black African, (Black total 13%) while 46% identified as White and 33%
identified as Asian or Asian British.
--
--

Colin Bignell
Joe Clanton
2018-06-14 09:23:13 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Full of your usual Liberal shit.
The interesting thing about observing correlation between IQ and race is
not just the results. It is more that it was one of the first
successfully established taboo facts of the post modernist movement.
Data which contradicts the progressive agenda must be stifled and anyone
talking about it without extreme care will have their careers destroyed.
Like professor James Watson.

More recently we see this censorious post modernist practice being
pushed under the guise of hate speech or gross offence.

We have seen Ken Livingstone relentlessly attacked for making a comment
that is true. Yesterday we see John Bercrow coming under attack as a
women hater for the outrageous offence of asking a woman MP to give
concise answers. I think John's card has now been marked and it will be
one offence after another.

At the end of the day it is all the same shit, it doesn't matter if it
is true if someone from a powerful group doesn't like it, finds it
offensive.
harry
2018-06-14 05:59:30 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Amazing how brain dead Liberals try to manipulate statistics.

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country


In this case by leaving out the important bit.
Do they think we're all as stupid as they are?
harry
2018-06-14 06:06:41 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
Interesting that mueslim countries have low IQs too.
But then I suppose one could have expected it.
pensive hamster
2018-06-14 19:04:45 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.

He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/oct/14/channel-4-stoke-race-debate
14 Oct 2009
harry
2018-06-14 19:17:28 UTC
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Post by pensive hamster
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5832789/Young-people-really-getting-stupid-IQs-falling-seven-points-generation.html
People with high IQ check their facts first: -
Rank Country IQ
1 Hong Kong 108
1 Singapore 108
2 South Korea 106
3 Japan 105
3 China 105
4 Taiwan 104
rather than just relying on their prejudices
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.
He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.
They would say that in the Guardian.
GB
2018-06-14 21:01:13 UTC
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Post by pensive hamster
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.
He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.
It's crystal clear that Sherpas have an advantage in climbing very tall
mountains. Of course, the question is whether that is innate or due to
living and working in the mountains. Almost certainly, the answer is both.

Similarly, there are fundamental differences in measured IQ, but it's
very difficult to know how much of that (if any) is innate and how much
is social.

Just as an example, if any of us were to move to Norway say and sit an
IQ test there, we'd expect to do worse than on an English language test.
And, of course, there's not really that much cultural difference between
the UK and Norway.

How would any of us do on an IQ test properly prepared for Australian
Aborigines? How many different types of sand can you recognise?
harry
2018-06-15 05:27:56 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by pensive hamster
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.
He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.
It's crystal clear that Sherpas have an advantage in climbing very tall
mountains. Of course, the question is whether that is innate or due to
living and working in the mountains. Almost certainly, the answer is both.
Similarly, there are fundamental differences in measured IQ, but it's
very difficult to know how much of that (if any) is innate and how much
is social.
Just as an example, if any of us were to move to Norway say and sit an
IQ test there, we'd expect to do worse than on an English language test.
And, of course, there's not really that much cultural difference between
the UK and Norway.
How would any of us do on an IQ test properly prepared for Australian
Aborigines? How many different types of sand can you recognise?
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Nightjar
2018-06-15 08:34:41 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by GB
Post by pensive hamster
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.
He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.
It's crystal clear that Sherpas have an advantage in climbing very tall
mountains. Of course, the question is whether that is innate or due to
living and working in the mountains. Almost certainly, the answer is both.
Similarly, there are fundamental differences in measured IQ, but it's
very difficult to know how much of that (if any) is innate and how much
is social.
Just as an example, if any of us were to move to Norway say and sit an
IQ test there, we'd expect to do worse than on an English language test.
And, of course, there's not really that much cultural difference between
the UK and Norway.
How would any of us do on an IQ test properly prepared for Australian
Aborigines? How many different types of sand can you recognise?
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ test
that is formulated for English speakers.
--
--

Colin Bignell
Joe Clanton
2018-06-15 08:58:04 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ test
that is formulated for English speakers.
It is astonishing that the East Asian countries rank highest.
Joe Clanton
2018-06-15 09:02:07 UTC
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Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ
test that is formulated for English speakers.
It is astonishing that the East Asian countries rank highest.
I pushed send too early, so I fail the IQ test!

The point is that IQ tests are *devised* to to test people regardless of
education or culture.

Hence testers will take into account language. Of course they can't
eliminate all cultural bias but the example you give is just plain silly.
GB
2018-06-15 10:45:03 UTC
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Post by Joe Clanton
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ
test that is formulated for English speakers.
It is astonishing that the East Asian countries rank highest.
I pushed send too early, so I fail the IQ test!
The point is that IQ tests are *devised* to to test people regardless of
education or culture.
Hence testers will take into account language. Of course they can't
eliminate all cultural bias but the example you give is just plain silly.
It's not as silly as all that. If I immigrated to Norway, any IQ tests I
had to take there would be in Norwegian language and based on Norwegian
cultural norms. I'd be bound to score lower for say the first decade
after I immigrated than my true IQ.
Joe Clanton
2018-06-15 11:19:00 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by Joe Clanton
Post by Joe Clanton
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there?
Anybody whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in
an IQ test that is formulated for English speakers.
It is astonishing that the East Asian countries rank highest.
I pushed send too early, so I fail the IQ test!
The point is that IQ tests are *devised* to to test people regardless
of education or culture.
Hence testers will take into account language. Of course they can't
eliminate all cultural bias but the example you give is just plain silly.
It's not as silly as all that. If I immigrated to Norway, any IQ tests I
had to take there would be in Norwegian language and based on Norwegian
cultural norms. I'd be bound to score lower for say the first decade
after I immigrated than my true IQ.
*Devised*, *take into account*.

Language is the most obvious thing they take in account.

I haven't looked at it recently but as I remember it the clearest
indicator that they could/had adjusted for a language bias was provided
by east Asian immigrants out performing the native population in USA tests.

I think I remember the tests also providing categorisation to examine
where English (test language) was a second language or not the language
spoken at home.

I'm not saying there are not significant cultural biases in IQ tests. I
am saying foreign language is not the best one to pick.

If you want to focus on language skewing results, I would be more
inclined to accept that particular languages may be intrinsically
superior for promoting high IQ results. That is assuming people are
being tested in their native language.
Nightjar
2018-06-15 11:07:34 UTC
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Post by Joe Clanton
Post by Joe Clanton
Post by Nightjar
Post by harry
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ
test that is formulated for English speakers.
It is astonishing that the East Asian countries rank highest.
I pushed send too early, so I fail the IQ test!
The point is that IQ tests are *devised* to to test people regardless of
education or culture. >
Hence testers will take into account language. Of course they can't
eliminate all cultural bias but the example you give is just plain silly.
I am sure that there will be IQ tests in many languages. However, Harry
posted a link to those used in the English speaking world, which did not
prove his point.
--
--

Colin Bignell
harry
2018-06-16 06:30:50 UTC
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Post by pensive hamster
I remember some years ago watching a documentary called
"Race and Intelligence: Science’s Last Taboo" presented by
former BBC journalist Rageh Omaar.
He interviewed various scientists, some said intelligence is
based on race, with north-east Asians in the top tier and
Australian aborigines at the bottom (and one who said men
are cleverer than women), while others said there is a cultural
bias - IQ tests are constructed by white/yellow males, and
contain all sorts of cultural clues and assumptions which
Africans won't pick up on. If you want to score well in IQ tests,
you need to understand how the test setter's minds work, and
why they think a particular figure is the odd one out, etc.
It's crystal clear that Sherpas have an advantage in climbing very tall
mountains. Of course, the question is whether that is innate or due to
living and working in the mountains. Almost certainly, the answer is both.
Similarly, there are fundamental differences in measured IQ, but it's
very difficult to know how much of that (if any) is innate and how much
is social.
Just as an example, if any of us were to move to Norway say and sit an
IQ test there, we'd expect to do worse than on an English language test.
And, of course, there's not really that much cultural difference between
the UK and Norway.
How would any of us do on an IQ test properly prepared for Australian
Aborigines? How many different types of sand can you recognise?
IQ tests are devised to test people regardless of education or culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests
Did you miss the bit about 'English speaking world' in there? Anybody
whose native language is not English is at a disadvantage in an IQ test
that is formulated for English speakers.
Drivel.
How did the Japanese come out on top?
The results are as expected.
People of low IQ have created shithole countries.

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