Discussion:
NHS beds
(too old to reply)
Judith
2017-01-11 10:47:31 UTC
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Raw Message
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000

Reduction : 13%

It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.

The NHS is safe in Tory hands.

My arse.
John
2017-01-11 11:46:31 UTC
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Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
burfordTjustice
2017-01-11 12:25:56 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:46:31 -0000
Post by John
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of
GDP) than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government
bite the bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI
contributions that would be necessary to solve the problem?
You could send in some extra money to the government for this purpose
then post up your receipt to show you did, then you you may have
some credibility.
Nick
2017-01-11 12:31:49 UTC
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Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a disincentive
to working harder.

Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments and
have the NHS as a safety net for more serious problems and issues that
benefit from universal application, like vaccination, contraception etc.
Sid
2017-01-11 13:06:08 UTC
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Post by Nick
Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a disincentive
to working harder.
Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments and
have the NHS as a safety net for more serious problems and issues that
benefit from universal application, like vaccination, contraception etc.
Charge for seeing anyone in A & E for drugs and booze related emergencies.

Privatise the NHS is the Answer.

Soon to happen
tim...
2017-01-11 14:41:02 UTC
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Post by Nick
Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a disincentive
to working harder.
Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments
because we would likely see a system that sees all manner of special
interest groups receive exception from the charge

and I will wager the contents of my bank account that there is a close
correlation between members of this special interest groups and the set of
people who abuse the NHS services

So what we will have is the responsible members of society subsiding the
irresponsible members even more than they do currently.

By all means charge for GP visits, but only on the basis of NO exceptions,
none at all, no not even this very very special case

but I bet you can't get a political consensus for that

tim
Nick
2017-01-11 16:59:57 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Nick
Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a
disincentive to working harder.
Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments
because we would likely see a system that sees all manner of special
interest groups receive exception from the charge
and I will wager the contents of my bank account that there is a close
correlation between members of this special interest groups and the set
of people who abuse the NHS services
Well I'm not quite sure what "abuse" means in this context. But yes
there needs to be some type of mechanism in place to restrict access and
demand to a free service that might be exploited.

My major trouble with the NHS is that they don't face up to this,
preferring instead to reduce access to services by using patient time
wasted as a deterrent.
Post by tim...
but I bet you can't get a political consensus for that
With my political skills I doubt I could get a consensus on anything.
John
2017-01-11 17:09:12 UTC
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Well I'm not quite sure what "abuse" means in this context. But yes there
needs to be some type of mechanism in place to restrict access and demand
to a free service that might be exploited.
You should not forget that the service is not FREE but paid for us all in
our taxes.
Sid
2017-01-11 17:44:59 UTC
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Post by John
Well I'm not quite sure what "abuse" means in this context. But yes there
needs to be some type of mechanism in place to restrict access and demand
to a free service that might be exploited.
You should not forget that the service is not FREE but paid for us all in
our taxes.
IT IS FREE AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY.
Paul Pot
2017-01-11 18:56:46 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Nick
Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a
disincentive to working harder.
Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments
and have the NHS as a safety net for more serious problems and issues
that benefit from universal application, like vaccination,
contraception etc.
Why not stop offering stuff like breast enlargement operations, such
vanity is not an emergency, or charge cost price at least?
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Nick
2017-01-11 19:26:49 UTC
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On 11/01/2017 18:56, Paul Pot wrote:
c.
Post by Paul Pot
Why not stop offering stuff like breast enlargement operations, such
vanity is not an emergency, or charge cost price at least?
It didn't know breast enlargement operations were available.

Mine seem to have got bigger all on their own. I think a post Christmas
diet is in order.
Ophelia
2017-01-12 10:41:34 UTC
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"Nick" wrote in message news:o560qp$1ke$***@dont-email.me...

On 11/01/2017 18:56, Paul Pot wrote:
c.
Post by Paul Pot
Why not stop offering stuff like breast enlargement operations, such
vanity is not an emergency, or charge cost price at least?
It didn't know breast enlargement operations were available.

Mine seem to have got bigger all on their own. I think a post Christmas
diet is in order.

==

<g>
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Jumper
2017-01-11 21:15:06 UTC
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Post by Nick
Post by John
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Because middle earners already pay a lot of tax and it is a disincentive
to working harder.
Why not charge for basic simple health services like GP appointments and
have the NHS as a safety net for more serious problems and issues that
benefit from universal application, like vaccination, contraception etc.
It would be a good tactical move for the Tories, to raise income tax and
ring fence it for the NHS. It would be a boon, to show that the Tories
are THE caring party, and there's no chance of Labour winning the GE
2020 with Corbyn, the commies and the hard line unions in charge of the
Labour party.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Sid
2017-01-11 13:04:54 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by John
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Money is will not solve the problem. Being out of The EU will
No more health tourists.

Dont forget to call me racist for typing that.
Fredxxx
2017-01-11 19:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
We already spend significantly less on healthcare (as a percentage of GDP)
than both France & Germany, so why on earth don't the government bite the
bullet and impose the modest increase in tax &/or NI contributions that
would be necessary to solve the problem?
Perhaps a few £100 off the tax allowance would be another way?
Handsome Jack
2017-01-11 13:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate measure
of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
--
Jack
burfordTjustice
2017-01-11 14:26:37 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:31:19 +0000
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the
demand for NHS is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate
measure of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
How do you measure? You failed to give a workable alternate.
tim...
2017-01-11 15:32:23 UTC
Permalink
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Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:31:19 +0000
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the
demand for NHS is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate
measure of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
How do you measure? You failed to give a workable alternate.
I agree that the 5 years from 2010 to 2015 is probably not a good example of
this but the number of beds available per night is not a useful measure
unless we also know the number of bed-nights that it takes to achieve a
basket of medical outcomes.

Time required in hospital per event has been decreasing as new ways of
treating people are invented. For example more and more operations that
used to require fully opening up a patient thus requiring 1-2 (or more)
weeks recovery afterwards can be done with simply day surgery and discharge
the same day

tim
Judith
2017-01-11 16:14:16 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:31:19 +0000
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the
demand for NHS is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate
measure of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
How do you measure? You failed to give a workable alternate.
I agree that the 5 years from 2010 to 2015 is probably not a good example of
this but the number of beds available per night is not a useful measure
unless we also know the number of bed-nights that it takes to achieve a
basket of medical outcomes.
Reducing the number of beds goes some way to explaining why people have to lie
in corridors.
burfordTjustice
2017-01-11 16:28:17 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 15:32:23 -0000
Post by tim...
Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:31:19 +0000
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the
demand for NHS is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate
measure of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
How do you measure? You failed to give a workable alternate.
I agree that the 5 years from 2010 to 2015 is probably not a good
example of this but the number of beds available per night is not a
useful measure unless we also know the number of bed-nights that it
takes to achieve a basket of medical outcomes.
Time required in hospital per event has been decreasing as new ways
of treating people are invented. For example more and more
operations that used to require fully opening up a patient thus
requiring 1-2 (or more) weeks recovery afterwards can be done with
simply day surgery and discharge the same day
tim
How do you measure? You failed to give a workable alternate.
Judith
2017-01-11 16:13:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
Reduction : 13%
It's a good job people are not living longer these days and the demand for NHS
is not going up.
The NHS is safe in Tory hands.
My arse.
You think the number of hospital inpatient beds is an adequate measure
of a health service's efficacy? How quaintly Victorian.
Not at all - it is just yet another example of how the NHS is being run down in
order to effectively privatise it.
Simon Mason
2017-01-11 15:54:22 UTC
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Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
I WAS IN WARD 90 FOR 121 DAYS.
I LEFT IT 3 YEARS AGO THOUGH - DONE MY BIT.
Judith
2017-01-11 16:48:38 UTC
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Post by Simon Mason
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
I WAS IN WARD 90 FOR 121 DAYS.
I LEFT IT 3 YEARS AGO THOUGH - DONE MY BIT.
Did you donate the money which BUPA gave you, to the hospital which saved your
life as a thank you?
Simon Mason
2017-01-11 21:17:01 UTC
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Post by Judith
Post by Simon Mason
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
I WAS IN WARD 90 FOR 121 DAYS.
I LEFT IT 3 YEARS AGO THOUGH - DONE MY BIT.
Did you donate the money which BUPA gave you, to the hospital which saved your
life as a thank you?
I WILL HAVE PAID IN 60 YEARS NI WHEN I HANG UP MY WHITE COAT.
AND YOU?
Judith
2017-01-12 09:03:02 UTC
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Post by Simon Mason
Post by Judith
Post by Simon Mason
Post by Judith
2010 : Number of overnight beds available: 158,000
2015 : Number of overnight beds available : 137,000
I WAS IN WARD 90 FOR 121 DAYS.
I LEFT IT 3 YEARS AGO THOUGH - DONE MY BIT.
Did you donate the money which BUPA gave you, to the hospital which saved your
life as a thank you?
I WILL HAVE PAID IN 60 YEARS NI WHEN I HANG UP MY WHITE COAT.
So that's a NO then.

I would have thought that someone as well off as you would have done so - they
saved your life after all. Perhaps you still think it is not worth anything.

"HANG UP MY WHITE COAT"? - I thought you had retired already.

You need to make your mind up.
Simon Mason
2017-01-12 09:12:40 UTC
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Post by Judith
I would have thought that someone as well off as you would have done so - they
saved your life after all. Perhaps you still think it is not worth anything.
"HANG UP MY WHITE COAT"? - I thought you had retired already.
Ken Dodd is 90 and still working.
The Todal
2017-01-12 09:46:12 UTC
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Post by Simon Mason
Post by Judith
I would have thought that someone as well off as you would have done so - they
saved your life after all. Perhaps you still think it is not worth anything.
"HANG UP MY WHITE COAT"? - I thought you had retired already.
Ken Dodd is 90 and still working.
Rolf Harris, at 86, can still sometimes be seen on TV screens.
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