Discussion:
Britain posthumously pardons thousands of gay and bisexual men
(too old to reply)
burfordTjustice
2016-10-20 20:16:26 UTC
Permalink
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Byker
2016-10-20 20:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.

Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
abelard
2016-10-20 21:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
so perhaps you believe that socrates, jesus, a person raped in pak,
a few witches in saudi, a few million jews shouldn't be pardoned.

because what they did was found to be illegal
Post by Byker
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
they can try...after all, you can trust the law...
--
www.abelard.org
harry
2016-10-21 07:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
so perhaps you believe that socrates, jesus, a person raped in pak,
a few witches in saudi, a few million jews shouldn't be pardoned.
because what they did was found to be illegal
Post by Byker
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
they can try...after all, you can trust the law...
--
www.abelard.org
I wonder how long it'll be before paedophilia and incest is legalised?
burfordTjustice
2016-10-21 12:07:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
Post by harry
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was
the law then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you
cannot not go backwards to change the rules.
so perhaps you believe that socrates, jesus, a person raped in pak,
a few witches in saudi, a few million jews shouldn't be
pardoned.
because what they did was found to be illegal
Post by Byker
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
they can try...after all, you can trust the law...
--
www.abelard.org
I wonder how long it'll be before paedophilia and incest is legalised?
Sooner than you might want to think.
Fredxxx
2016-10-20 21:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
That is my take as well. In the 1950s homosexuality was seen as a
demonic perversion, much like paedophilia is now.

I'm sure many would be deeply offended if they knew Gary Glitter would
get a posthumous pardon in say 60 years time.
burfordTjustice
2016-10-21 12:03:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:27:34 +0100
Post by Fredxxx
In the 1950s homosexuality was seen as a
demonic perversion, much like paedophilia is now.
So you approve of children fucking,eh?
Fredxxx
2016-10-21 12:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by burfordTjustice
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:27:34 +0100
Post by Fredxxx
In the 1950s homosexuality was seen as a
demonic perversion, much like paedophilia is now.
So you approve of children fucking,eh?
Your comprehension of the English language is extremely poor.

You must have "children fucking" firmly imprinted on your brain.
burfordTjustice
2016-10-21 15:36:59 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 13:11:31 +0100
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:27:34 +0100
Post by Fredxxx
That is my take as well. In the 1950s homosexuality was seen as a
demonic perversion, much like paedophilia is now.
Your own writing shows you for what you really are...
Fredxxx
2016-10-21 15:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by burfordTjustice
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 13:11:31 +0100
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:27:34 +0100
Post by Fredxxx
That is my take as well. In the 1950s homosexuality was seen as a
demonic perversion, much like paedophilia is now.
Your own writing shows you for what you really are...
Your comprehension of the English language is extremely poor.

You must have "children fucking" firmly imprinted on your brain.
Dänk 42Ø
2016-10-21 00:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.

A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.

The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
Ted&Alice
2016-10-21 01:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dänk 42Ø
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.
A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.
The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
Well stated. Thanks Dank.
Gronk
2016-10-26 03:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dänk 42Ø
"burfordTjustice" wrote in message
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Post by Dänk 42Ø
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.
A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.
The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
What he said...
Ian Jackson
2016-10-26 08:23:19 UTC
Permalink
In message <nup8k5$uer$***@dont-email.me>, Gronk <***@invalid.invalid>
writes
Post by burfordTjustice
Post by Dänk 42Ø
"burfordTjustice" wrote in message
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-m
en-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code
-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Post by Dänk 42Ø
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.
A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.
The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
What he said...
Apparently it isn't going to happen any time soon.....
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=turing+bill+talked+out
--
Ian
JNugent
2016-10-26 12:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
writes
Post by burfordTjustice
Post by Dänk 42Ø
"burfordTjustice" wrote in message
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-m
en-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code
-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Post by Dänk 42Ø
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.
A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.
The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
What he said...
Apparently it isn't going to happen any time soon.....
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=turing+bill+talked+out
This was an SNP Private Member's Bill.

The government is preparing its own legislation on the subject and can
do without the assistance of the Scottich County Council.

But in any case, the SNP have absolutely no business meddling in matters
which have effects in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and deserved
to be put ineir place for that reason if no other. However, there are
other reasons, as mentioned above.

Max Demian
2016-10-21 13:07:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:44:10 +0000, Dänk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-
men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-co
de-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Post by Dänk 42Ø
Post by Byker
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
Now there'll be a stampede of surviving relatives demanding
"compensation"...
The law was unjust and unconstitutional by today's standards.
California is already working on a legal procedure to nullify
past marijuana convictions after that drug is probably
legalized in November.
They weren't "unjust and unconstitutional", just different. The way
they were enacted and enforced was exactly the same as current laws.
It's no good trying to pretend they didn't exist. Better to look at
present day laws; there are occasionally questions whether an
artist's work should be read/heard/viewed if he is convicted of some
(currently regarded as) heinous crime. Rolf Harris's artworks are
quietly being removed, and periodically there are calls for the
removal of Eric Gill's sculpture above the entrance to BBC
Broadcasting House (which additionally features a naked boy).
Post by Dänk 42Ø
A pardon seems insufficient, and still stigmatizes the individual
because only criminals can be pardoned, and the pardon remains on
record even if the criminal conviction is erased. A full
dismissal of the charges is appropriate, as if no crime ever
occurred.
That won't help anyone, especially if the person is dead. Just a
pointless sop to present day consciences like apologising for the
slave trade.
Post by Dänk 42Ø
The conviction of Alan Turing is especially egregious, as his work
on encryption was instrumental in winning the war. Instead of
thanks, he was convicted of having improper sexual relations. The
"freedom" he thought he was fighting for didn't exist in his case.
I don't think many fought WW2 for the freedom to engage in homosexual
relations.
--
Max Demian
AndyW
2016-10-21 06:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-code-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
What is the point? They broke the law as it stood then. That was the law
then and they broke it, I know it seems wrong now but you cannot not go
backwards to change the rules.
That is exactly what a pardon is:
"pardon. 1) v. to use the executive power of a Governor or President to
forgive a person convicted of a crime, thus removing any remaining
penalties or punishments and preventing any new prosecution of the
person for the crime for which the pardon was given."

You break the law as it stands, circumstances change and you are
pardoned for your crime (note it still was a crime) and it stricken from
the record but the law still stood at that time. History remains
unchanged. Anything else would look like a government whitewashing its
mistakes from history.

Andy
Max Demian
2016-10-20 21:59:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 16:16:26 -0400, burfordTjustice
<***@tues.uk> wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-
men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-co
de-breaker-Alan-Turing.html

Does that include Oscar Wilde? Would he even want to be pardoned by
the establishment?
--
Max Demian
JNugent
2016-10-20 22:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 16:16:26 -0400, burfordTjustice
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3853580/Thousands-gay-bisexual-
men-convicted-abolished-sex-offences-posthumously-pardoned-like-WWII-co
de-breaker-Alan-Turing.html
Does that include Oscar Wilde? Would he even want to be pardoned by the
establishment?
Oscar tried to get an innocent man (the Marquis of Queensbury) convicted
of an offence of criminal libel for telling the truth. That's pretty
extreme and unacceptable behaviour.

Whatever his many other merits, he (Oscar) deserves to be condemened for
that reason if no other.
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