Discussion:
Davis Speech
(too old to reply)
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-19 19:06:01 UTC
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"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"

Interesting.

Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.

DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Ian Jackson
2018-02-19 19:31:19 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that
the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363
[fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few
post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant
when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of
the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
I wouldn't have thought that "accepted" (allowed to be used?) is the
same as "adopted" (has to be used?).
--
Ian
Fredxx
2018-02-19 19:39:08 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that
the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and
a few post colonial places.  Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no
chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
I wouldn't have thought that "accepted" (allowed to be used?) is the
same as "adopted" (has to be used?).
It's a strange standard for Mr Clayton to use as an excuse to knock Davies.

There are more appropriate avenues to show Davis's shortcomings, and
this isn't one.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-19 19:33:44 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
--
Isn't Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-20 19:39:32 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
--
Isn't Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?
Ian Jackson
2018-02-20 19:52:47 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland
and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually
no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug?
One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely
different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Think RCBO.
--
Ian
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-20 20:10:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland
and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually
no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug?
One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely
different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Think RCBO.
I thought RCD's replaced them?
Post by Ian Jackson
--
Ian
Ian Jackson
2018-02-20 20:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland
and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually
no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug?
One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely
different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Think RCBO.
I thought RCD's replaced them?
Dunno. I think there's at least two in the trip thingy box under the
stairs.
--
Ian
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-20 23:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
--
Two men were talking.
"My son asked me what I did during the Sexual Revolution," said one.
"I told him I was captured early and spent the duration doing the dishes.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-21 10:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.

Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Tufnell Park
2018-02-21 11:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.

Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.

It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
Ian Jackson
2018-02-21 12:14:55 UTC
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Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:39:32 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the
BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK,
Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost
completely redundant when residual current devices protect
outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he
either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused
plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two
entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded
now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
I've always understood that, in recent times, the fuse in the UK plug is
mainly intended to protect the mains lead between the plug and - to some
extent - the equipment it connects to (hence some '13A' fuses are as low
as 1A).
--
Ian
Tufnell Park
2018-02-21 12:46:51 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Tufnell Park
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:39:32 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 19 February 2018 19:33:47 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the
BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK,
Ireland and a few post colonial places.  Nowadays they are almost
completely redundant when residual current devices protect
outlets.  Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard,
along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he
either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused
plug?  One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two
entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit.  Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many
loads on a circuit.
 Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
 Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded
now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
I've always understood that, in recent times, the fuse in the UK plug is
mainly intended to protect the mains lead between the plug and - to some
extent - the equipment it connects to (hence some '13A' fuses are as low
as 1A).
That has always been the case, otherwise with an unfused plug the
appliance lead/flex would need to be 30/32A rated.
JNugent
2018-02-22 06:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Tufnell Park
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:39:32 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
On Monday, 19 February 2018 19:33:47 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand
that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU
post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the
BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK,
Ireland and a few post colonial places.  Nowadays they are almost
completely redundant when residual current devices protect
outlets.  Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard,
along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he
either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused
plug?  One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two
entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit.  Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many
loads on a circuit.
 Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
 Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded
now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
I've always understood that, in recent times, the fuse in the UK plug is
mainly intended to protect the mains lead between the plug and - to some
extent - the equipment it connects to (hence some '13A' fuses are as low
as 1A).
Indeed. Many appliances (especially lamps and audio-visual equipment)
are supposed to be fitted with fuses rated at between 1A and 3A.

Three amp fuses cover appliances up to about 700 watts. Lamps really
need a 1A fuse.
harry
2018-02-21 17:26:10 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-21 17:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
Indeed, consider a table lamp with a thin flex.
--
"Sex is one of the most beautiful, wholesome, and natural things that money can buy." -- Steve Martin
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-21 18:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
JNugent
2018-02-22 06:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.

The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-22 10:00:08 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.
The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
Well the north American system is bad on high current (and ergo thick wires for cookers etc.), however the fundamental problem with all of Europe is 230V, which is often fatal if contacted. I had a close shave with a live door in France - the only time I have had a belt when not messing with something electrical - quite a surprise!
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-22 19:23:55 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.
The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
Well the north American system is bad on high current (and ergo thick wires for cookers etc.), however the fundamental problem with all of Europe is 230V, which is often fatal if contacted. I had a close shave with a live door in France - the only time I have had a belt when not messing with something electrical - quite a surprise!
It virtually never kills you. You need a weak heart AND have to have the current pass through it.
--
7 wheelchair athletes have been banned from the Paralympics after they tested positive for WD40.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-22 19:24:39 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.
The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
What's idiotic about that? When I worked at a University (in the UK), Germans would often do this instead of bothering me for an adapter.
--
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
Ian Jackson
2018-02-22 19:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:39:32 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will
demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago
the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the
UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are
almost completely redundant when residual current devices
protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he
either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused
plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two
entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too
many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded
now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.
The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
What's idiotic about that? When I worked at a University (in the UK),
Germans would often do this instead of bothering me for an adapter.
If you stuff a domestic continental Schuko plug (typically 10A) in a UK
13A socket, there is a fair chance that the 'receptacles' of the 13A
socket will be left permanently spayed. And guess when happens when you
next insert a UK plug? The pins make poor (or even no) contact. And
guess what happens then?
--
Ian
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-22 19:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by harry
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:39:32 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0000, R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will
demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago
the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the
UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are
almost completely redundant when residual current devices
protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he
either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused
plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two
entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bullshit. Short from live to neutral, or someone putting too
many loads on a circuit.
Should trip the MCB's found in modern consumer units.
Fused plugs were a good idea in 1958, but are largely superseded
now, and all too often fitted with an over-rated fuse.
Fused plugs are used because of the 30/32A 'ring main' socket outlet
system in most UK & Irish domestic installations.
Most other european countries uses radial socket outlet systems
protected at 16A, so a fused plug is not necessary.
It has nothing to do with being outdated or superseded, it is a
consequence of a different system.
A 16a radial would benefit from fused plugs.
Indeed.
Post by harry
Our system is far in advance of anything in Europe or the USA>
but don't over egg it.
The USA/Canada 110v system is recognised as less safe than the European
230/240v system, mainly because of the higher current draw involved in a
given power rating.
The UK's consumer connector system is the safest in Europe, provided
that it is properly used, with the correct fuse rating. Idiots can make
anything dangerous if they try hard. I've ven heard of some using
continental 2-pin plugs and jamming the socket's earth-shutter open with
a screwdriver.
What's idiotic about that? When I worked at a University (in the UK),
Germans would often do this instead of bothering me for an adapter.
If you stuff a domestic continental Schuko plug (typically 10A) in a UK
13A socket, there is a fair chance that the 'receptacles' of the 13A
socket will be left permanently spayed. And guess when happens when you
next insert a UK plug? The pins make poor (or even no) contact. And
guess what happens then?
They go in pretty easily, I doubt you're causing any damage. The width of the pins is pretty much identical.

This'll give you nightmares, I have a travel adaptor in the shaver light socket in my bathroom so I can plug a 13A plug into it. Nice and convenient for all sorts of things.
--
On going to war over religion:
You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. -- Richard Jeni
Ian Jackson
2018-02-22 20:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 19:41:18 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
If you stuff a domestic continental Schuko plug (typically 10A) in a UK
13A socket, there is a fair chance that the 'receptacles' of the 13A
socket will be left permanently spayed. And guess when happens when you
next insert a UK plug? The pins make poor (or even no) contact. And
guess what happens then?
They go in pretty easily, I doubt you're causing any damage. The width
of the pins is pretty much identical.
Believe me - you certainly can.

For work, I once had to investigate intermittent operation in six 19"
racks full of equipment. They were feeding lots of TV signals to around
30,000 homes, so it was creating more than a little annoyance.

What had happened that some of the equipment was of Continental origin,
and when it had first been installed, some of it had been used with the
original plugs forced into the strips of UK mains sockets.

Over time, some of the Continental equipment had got moved around, which
usually entailed plugging it into different mains sockets.

It all ended up with some sockets being left intermittent (and some
dead) when used for equipment with a UK plug on it - and as result, all
the strips of mains sockets had to be replaced.

A strict warning was given to the 'engineer' in charge never to do it
again!
This'll give you nightmares, I have a travel adaptor in the shaver
light socket in my bathroom so I can plug a 13A plug into it. Nice and
convenient for all sorts of things.
Each to his own.
--
Ian
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-22 21:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 19:41:18 -0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
If you stuff a domestic continental Schuko plug (typically 10A) in a UK
13A socket, there is a fair chance that the 'receptacles' of the 13A
socket will be left permanently spayed. And guess when happens when you
next insert a UK plug? The pins make poor (or even no) contact. And
guess what happens then?
They go in pretty easily, I doubt you're causing any damage. The width
of the pins is pretty much identical.
Believe me - you certainly can.
For work, I once had to investigate intermittent operation in six 19"
racks full of equipment. They were feeding lots of TV signals to around
30,000 homes, so it was creating more than a little annoyance.
What had happened that some of the equipment was of Continental origin,
and when it had first been installed, some of it had been used with the
original plugs forced into the strips of UK mains sockets.
Over time, some of the Continental equipment had got moved around, which
usually entailed plugging it into different mains sockets.
It all ended up with some sockets being left intermittent (and some
dead) when used for equipment with a UK plug on it - and as result, all
the strips of mains sockets had to be replaced.
A strict warning was given to the 'engineer' in charge never to do it
again!
Strange, as I've put them in myself and not felt any great resistance. I have however had UK sockets wear out from just being used by normal UK plugs. And I mean low amperage aswell, like computers.
Post by Ian Jackson
This'll give you nightmares, I have a travel adaptor in the shaver
light socket in my bathroom so I can plug a 13A plug into it. Nice and
convenient for all sorts of things.
Each to his own.
I see no problem with it, why do you?
--
Viagra Lite
For people who only want to masturbate

Viagrallium
A mix of Viagra and Vallium: if you don't get to fuck, then you don't give a fuck.
The Peeler
2018-02-22 22:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:43:15 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
I see no problem with it, why do you?
Birdbrain, you ARE the problem! ALWAYS!
--
More from gay wanker Birdbrain's strange sociopathic world:
"If people don't like seeing other people the way they were born, there's
something seriously wrong with them. In the UK I'm free to walk around
naked in public, and I often do. I walk up mountains starkers. People
laugh, gasp, and make rude comments, but I just tell them to grow up."
MID: <***@red.lan>
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-23 09:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
What's idiotic about that? When I worked at a University (in the UK), Germans would often do this instead of bothering me for an adapter.
As pointed out - a short in the connected equipment can draw up to 32A. Usually the kit or the flex will melt first, but could cause a fire.
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
--
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 01:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
What's idiotic about that? When I worked at a University (in the UK), Germans would often do this instead of bothering me for an adapter.
As pointed out - a short in the connected equipment can draw up to 32A. Usually the kit or the flex will melt first, but could cause a fire.
Unlikely. Why are you so pessimistic?
--
What's the best thing to get for a woman who has everything?
A man to show her how to work it.
harry
2018-02-21 17:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
You rarely get an overload without earth leakage.
Bollix.
MM
2018-02-21 09:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-21 15:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
--
All the American flags on the moon have been bleached by radiation from the sun (which can only be a good thing).
MM
2018-02-23 10:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?

MM
JNugent
2018-02-23 10:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?

If you are asking whether a builder/developer would be in order to
install foreign-standard electrical fittings and wiring systems when
building or refurbishing houses in the UK, the answer is "No".

But you are perfectly entitled to have your collection of said foreign
artefacts on display in glass cases if you wish.
MM
2018-02-24 09:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 17:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
--
I just sent my lawyer something for his birthday. Unfortunately, he wasn't home when it went off.
The Peeler
2018-02-24 20:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain
of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
Idiot!
--
More from gay wanker Birdbrain's strange sociopathic world:
"If people don't like seeing other people the way they were born, there's
something seriously wrong with them. In the UK I'm free to walk around
naked in public, and I often do. I walk up mountains starkers. People
laugh, gasp, and make rude comments, but I just tell them to grow up."
MID: <***@red.lan>
MM
2018-03-02 16:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?

MM
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-02 18:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
MM
No, but you have to provide an adapter.
JNugent
2018-03-06 09:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
MM
No, but you have to provide an adapter.
Whoa, whoa...

The answer is different for the plug and the socket.

It is lawful to connect a foreign plug to a 13A socket by means of a
travel adaptor (with obvious and wel-recognised analogous provisions in
foreign countries for the use of 13A plugs via adaptors).

But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).

But neither are "banned" in the everyday sense of that word. Anyone may
own them as long as they are only used in compliance with the regs and
the law. And for the socket, that means not used at all (except perhaps
as a trailing socket arrangement with a 13A plug on the other end, as an
adaptor).
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-06 14:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
MM
No, but you have to provide an adapter.
Whoa, whoa...
The answer is different for the plug and the socket.
It is lawful to connect a foreign plug to a 13A socket by means of a
travel adaptor (with obvious and wel-recognised analogous provisions in
foreign countries for the use of 13A plugs via adaptors).
But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).
But neither are "banned" in the everyday sense of that word. Anyone may
own them as long as they are only used in compliance with the regs and
the law. And for the socket, that means not used at all (except perhaps
as a trailing socket arrangement with a 13A plug on the other end, as an
adaptor).
Pretty daft, as if I owned a hotel where Europeans frequently came to stay, it would be safer to have properly wired in Schuko sockets than hand out adapters or let them use their own.
--
A woman standing nude in front of a mirror says to her husband: "I look horrible, I feel fat and ugly, pay me a compliment."
He replies, "Your eyesight is perfect."
The Peeler
2018-03-06 17:16:39 UTC
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On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:46:43 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Pretty daft,
Look who's talking! The daftest poster in all these groups, Birdbrain
himself! LOL
--
Gay Wanker Birdbrain who already admitted that he watched gay porn flicks
"accidentally", also admitted this:
"I once came across a webpage or a newsgroup or something which specialised
in "pictures of flaccid cocks"."
Message-ID: <***@red.lan>
MM
2018-03-09 10:11:43 UTC
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Post by JNugent
But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).
See:

"The Regulation you need to have a look at is 553-01-03 which refers
to Table 55A that lists BS 546 plugs/sockets but not the Schuko Socket
Outlets (16A) to IEC884 you refer to. However, as a designer, you may
wish to note Regulations 120-01-03 and 120-02-01 that allow you to
make a special consideration with respect to the degree of safety of
the installation being not less than obtained by compliance with the
Regulations and if so, recording this as a departure on your
Electrical Installation Certificate."

and:

"You also need to ensure compliance with The Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994. These require sockets for use with
"Standard" plugs (i.e. BS 1363 plugs) to themselves be to BS
1363-2:1995 13 A plugs, socket-outlets and adaptors Specification for
13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets.

However, the regulations also state the following with regard ro
standards of other European states.
'...such requirement shall be satisfied if the electrical device
conforms to any standard or specification recognised for use in a
member State, provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard, and
any reference to such a requirement shall be construed accordingly.'

The use of IEC 884 sockets therefore seems OK. "

and:

"Be aware that any circuit with an unfused plug/socket (schucko or
older British) needs to be backed up by a 16A MCB or a 13A fuse.
Direct connection to a UK ring final circuit, normally wired in 2.5mm,
and backed by a 32A MCB or 30A hot wire fuse, is not accepeted. I have
put Schucko socket in my new shower room on a dedicated 16A RCBO
radial, and another one on a 13A fused spur. I have the building
control office paperwork to say its acceptable to them. They did want
my paperwork in English, oddly enough, though I had given them the
option of test results in German."
https://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=11857
Post by JNugent
But neither are "banned" in the everyday sense of that word.
Exactly. See above.
Post by JNugent
Anyone may
own them as long as they are only used in compliance with the regs and
the law. And for the socket, that means not used at all (except perhaps
as a trailing socket arrangement with a 13A plug on the other end, as an
adaptor).
Not true. See above from IET (The Institution of Engineering and
Technology) website.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-09 16:06:45 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by JNugent
But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).
"The Regulation you need to have a look at is 553-01-03 which refers
to Table 55A that lists BS 546 plugs/sockets but not the Schuko Socket
Outlets (16A) to IEC884 you refer to. However, as a designer, you may
wish to note Regulations 120-01-03 and 120-02-01 that allow you to
make a special consideration with respect to the degree of safety of
the installation being not less than obtained by compliance with the
Regulations and if so, recording this as a departure on your
Electrical Installation Certificate."
"You also need to ensure compliance with The Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994. These require sockets for use with
"Standard" plugs (i.e. BS 1363 plugs) to themselves be to BS
1363-2:1995 13 A plugs, socket-outlets and adaptors Specification for
13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets.
However, the regulations also state the following with regard ro
standards of other European states.
'...such requirement shall be satisfied if the electrical device
conforms to any standard or specification recognised for use in a
member State, provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard, and
any reference to such a requirement shall be construed accordingly.'
The use of IEC 884 sockets therefore seems OK. "
"Be aware that any circuit with an unfused plug/socket (schucko or
older British) needs to be backed up by a 16A MCB or a 13A fuse.
Direct connection to a UK ring final circuit, normally wired in 2.5mm,
and backed by a 32A MCB or 30A hot wire fuse, is not accepeted. I have
put Schucko socket in my new shower room on a dedicated 16A RCBO
radial, and another one on a 13A fused spur. I have the building
control office paperwork to say its acceptable to them. They did want
my paperwork in English, oddly enough, though I had given them the
option of test results in German."
https://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=11857
Post by JNugent
But neither are "banned" in the everyday sense of that word.
Exactly. See above.
Post by JNugent
Anyone may
own them as long as they are only used in compliance with the regs and
the law. And for the socket, that means not used at all (except perhaps
as a trailing socket arrangement with a 13A plug on the other end, as an
adaptor).
Not true. See above from IET (The Institution of Engineering and
Technology) website.
The people that write these need to go on the B ship (see Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Ship_B
--
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason -- Benjamin Franklin
JNugent
2018-03-09 17:49:58 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by JNugent
But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).
"The Regulation you need to have a look at is 553-01-03 which refers
to Table 55A that lists BS 546 plugs/sockets but not the Schuko Socket
Outlets (16A) to IEC884 you refer to. However, as a designer, you may
wish to note Regulations 120-01-03 and 120-02-01 that allow you to
make a special consideration with respect to the degree of safety of
the installation being not less than obtained by compliance with the
Regulations and if so, recording this as a departure on your
Electrical Installation Certificate."
"You also need to ensure compliance with The Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994. These require sockets for use with
"Standard" plugs (i.e. BS 1363 plugs) to themselves be to BS
1363-2:1995 13 A plugs, socket-outlets and adaptors Specification for
13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets.
However, the regulations also state the following with regard ro
standards of other European states.
'...such requirement shall be satisfied if the electrical device
conforms to any standard or specification recognised for use in a
member State, provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard, and
any reference to such a requirement shall be construed accordingly.'
The use of IEC 884 sockets therefore seems OK. "
"...provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard..."

...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that this
system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of safety is
not provided.

There is no country on earth whose electrical wiring provisions better
those of the UK, and plenty whose provisions don't match it (the rest of
Europe, for a start).

One is not even allowed to clean install 5A or 15A three-pin sockets
(which, at one time, were the standard UK requirement).
Post by MM
"Be aware that any circuit with an unfused plug/socket (schucko or
older British) needs to be backed up by a 16A MCB or a 13A fuse.
Direct connection to a UK ring final circuit, normally wired in 2.5mm,
and backed by a 32A MCB or 30A hot wire fuse, is not accepeted. I have
put Schucko socket in my new shower room on a dedicated 16A RCBO
radial, and another one on a 13A fused spur. I have the building
control office paperwork to say its acceptable to them. They did want
my paperwork in English, oddly enough, though I had given them the
option of test results in German."
https://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=11857
Post by JNugent
But neither are "banned" in the everyday sense of that word.
Exactly. See above.
Post by JNugent
Anyone may
own them as long as they are only used in compliance with the regs and
the law. And for the socket, that means not used at all (except perhaps
as a trailing socket arrangement with a 13A plug on the other end, as an
adaptor).
Not true. See above from IET (The Institution of Engineering and
Technology) website.
MM
Have you ever had a job where reading and understanding Regulations was
important?
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-09 18:01:12 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
But installing a non-compliant socket in the UK is a breach of the IEE
regulations (or whatever those regs are now called).
"The Regulation you need to have a look at is 553-01-03 which refers
to Table 55A that lists BS 546 plugs/sockets but not the Schuko Socket
Outlets (16A) to IEC884 you refer to. However, as a designer, you may
wish to note Regulations 120-01-03 and 120-02-01 that allow you to
make a special consideration with respect to the degree of safety of
the installation being not less than obtained by compliance with the
Regulations and if so, recording this as a departure on your
Electrical Installation Certificate."
"You also need to ensure compliance with The Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994. These require sockets for use with
"Standard" plugs (i.e. BS 1363 plugs) to themselves be to BS
1363-2:1995 13 A plugs, socket-outlets and adaptors Specification for
13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets.
However, the regulations also state the following with regard ro
standards of other European states.
'...such requirement shall be satisfied if the electrical device
conforms to any standard or specification recognised for use in a
member State, provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard, and
any reference to such a requirement shall be construed accordingly.'
The use of IEC 884 sockets therefore seems OK. "
"...provided that conformity to such a standard or
specification provides a level of safety equivalent to that which
would be provided by conformity to the relevant British Standard..."
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that this
system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of safety is
not provided.
There is no country on earth whose electrical wiring provisions better
those of the UK, and plenty whose provisions don't match it (the rest of
Europe, for a start).
One is not even allowed to clean install 5A or 15A three-pin sockets
(which, at one time, were the standard UK requirement).
Go speak to a theatre where they're standard for lighting.
--
If it's zero degrees outside today and it's supposed to be twice as cold tomorrow, how cold is it going to be?
JNugent
2018-03-10 17:47:01 UTC
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Post by JNugent
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that
this system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of
safety is not provided.
No, because the plug is not part of the installation.
No-one said it was. But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
Paul Cummins
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
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Post by JNugent
But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
It's funny you should say that - I'm currently sitting in a hotel in
Scotland, with 2 BS sockets and a German socket.

So it clearly can, and has, been done.
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
====
Visit North Kent's 2nd biggest supplier of Sour Grapes
http://www.grapesdirect.co.uk
JNugent
2018-03-12 00:08:33 UTC
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Post by Paul Cummins
Post by JNugent
But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
It's funny you should say that - I'm currently sitting in a hotel in
Scotland, with 2 BS sockets and a German socket.
So it clearly can, and has, been done.
<https://writingexplained.org/can-vs-may-difference>

Quite SFW.
Paul Cummins
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
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Post by JNugent
<https://writingexplained.org/can-vs-may-difference>
Quite SFW.
You are quite the sycophantic cunt, aren't you?
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
====
Visit North Kent's 2nd biggest supplier of Sour Grapes
http://www.grapesdirect.co.uk
JNugent
2018-03-12 23:56:57 UTC
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Post by Paul Cummins
Post by JNugent
<https://writingexplained.org/can-vs-may-difference>
Quite SFW.
You are quite the sycophantic cunt, aren't you?
Very clearly, you don't know the meaning of the word "sycophantic",
since it cannot possibly be what you meant and is likely the polar
opposite of what you did mean.
MM
2018-03-12 09:05:05 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that
this system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of
safety is not provided.
No, because the plug is not part of the installation.
No-one said it was. But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
That's like saying we all must wear seatbelts when driving. Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.

MM
JNugent
2018-03-12 15:26:05 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that
this system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of
safety is not provided.
No, because the plug is not part of the installation.
No-one said it was. But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
That's like saying we all must wear seatbelts when driving.
It IS a bit like that, in that it's the law and one may not flout it
without risking consequences.
Post by MM
Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.
A fifth-form argument if ever I heard one.

Sockets installed as part of the wiring of a building in the UK have to
be capable of being used with compliant (ie, fused) plugs. That in turn
means that the sockets have to be BS-compliant.

The only exception would be a new socket being substituted for an older
one dating from before the BS specifications for new installations (that
is, a 5A 2-pin, 5A 3-pin or 15A 3-pin socket). That would include my
great grandmother's house (she moved into it in 1947 and I remember it
in detail, despite 2001 being the last time I was at the address). The
house had a total of two 2A 2-pin sockets (both mounted on skirting
boards) and one 5A 3-pin socket mounted on a wall-fixed wooden patress
block at waist-height. This single socket ran the radio and the TV set.
If some was needed, everything else had to be disconnected temporarily.

But good luck trying to find a source for those nowadays.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-03-12 15:46:46 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that
this system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of
safety is not provided.
No, because the plug is not part of the installation.
No-one said it was. But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
That's like saying we all must wear seatbelts when driving.
It IS a bit like that, in that it's the law and one may not flout it
without risking consequences.
Post by MM
Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.
A fifth-form argument if ever I heard one.
Sockets installed as part of the wiring of a building in the UK have to
be capable of being used with compliant (ie, fused) plugs. That in turn
means that the sockets have to be BS-compliant.
The only exception would be a new socket being substituted for an older
one dating from before the BS specifications for new installations (that
is, a 5A 2-pin, 5A 3-pin or 15A 3-pin socket). That would include my
great grandmother's house (she moved into it in 1947 and I remember it
in detail, despite 2001 being the last time I was at the address). The
house had a total of two 2A 2-pin sockets (both mounted on skirting
boards) and one 5A 3-pin socket mounted on a wall-fixed wooden patress
block at waist-height. This single socket ran the radio and the TV set.
If some was needed, everything else had to be disconnected temporarily.
But good luck trying to find a source for those nowadays.
MK still make them.
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/16526349524554176817
2A sockets are still quite often used for floor standing and table lamp lighting circuits.

Screwfix still sell them
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/16526349524554176817
I don't know what the 5A ones are used for, except perhaps replacement

15A sockets are used in theatres for stage lighting etc.
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/7579482097488010837

The 5 and 15A ones are shielded these days, which was the principle danger with the originals (and why my parents replace theirs with BS 1363 ones when they found me poking a knitting needle into one aged ~2 - must have been the earth or neutral hole!)
JNugent
2018-03-12 16:56:25 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
...means that the plug has to be fused (because of the safety that
this system engenders. Without the fuse, an equivalent standard of
safety is not provided.
No, because the plug is not part of the installation.
No-one said it was. But the system in use in the UK requires plugs to be
fitted with fuses.
That's like saying we all must wear seatbelts when driving.
It IS a bit like that, in that it's the law and one may not flout it
without risking consequences.
Post by MM
Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.
A fifth-form argument if ever I heard one.
Sockets installed as part of the wiring of a building in the UK have to
be capable of being used with compliant (ie, fused) plugs. That in turn
means that the sockets have to be BS-compliant.
The only exception would be a new socket being substituted for an older
one dating from before the BS specifications for new installations (that
is, a 5A 2-pin, 5A 3-pin or 15A 3-pin socket). That would include my
great grandmother's house (she moved into it in 1947 and I remember it
in detail, despite 2001 being the last time I was at the address). The
house had a total of two 2A 2-pin sockets (both mounted on skirting
boards) and one 5A 3-pin socket mounted on a wall-fixed wooden patress
block at waist-height. This single socket ran the radio and the TV set.
If some was needed, everything else had to be disconnected temporarily.
But good luck trying to find a source for those nowadays.
MK still make them.
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/16526349524554176817
2A sockets are still quite often used for floor standing and table lamp lighting circuits.
Screwfix still sell them
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/16526349524554176817
I don't know what the 5A ones are used for, except perhaps replacement
15A sockets are used in theatres for stage lighting etc.
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/7579482097488010837
I didn't think they'd still be made, but it makes sense that they are,
albeit for a limited market.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The 5 and 15A ones are shielded these days, which was the principle danger with the originals (and why my parents replace theirs with BS 1363 ones when they found me poking a knitting needle into one aged ~2 - must have been the earth or neutral hole!)
I can recall getting a 240v shock between two fingers in similar
circumstances at a slightly older age.
MM
2018-03-13 20:23:57 UTC
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I didn't think ....
Stop right there! You've detected your problem!

MM
pensive hamster
2018-03-12 17:05:40 UTC
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On Monday, 12 March 2018 09:04:30 UTC, MM wrote:
[...]
Post by MM
Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.
Where there is a socket, a plug must surely follow, sooner or later.
MM
2018-03-13 20:25:39 UTC
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:05:40 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by MM
Your story
about plugs is a non sequitur, since the thread was about sockets.
Where there is a socket, a plug must surely follow, sooner or later.
Here is a shameless plug for Gabrielle Miller, the Trivago gal. She's
my kind of DIM*.

MM

* DIM = Desert Island Material
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-02 18:23:09 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
I don't do rules, I don't care whats banned, I just do it anyway. I worked out I can actually break about 10 laws within the space of an hour without trying.
--
If you jog in a jogging suit, lounge in lounging pyjamas, and smoke in a smoking jacket, why would anyone want to wear a windbreaker?
JNugent
2018-03-06 09:24:38 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
You can own one, so in that sense, they are not banned, like sawn-off
shotguns or flick-knives.

But an electrician may not provide one as part of a domestic or
commercial installation.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-06 14:45:31 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:18:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
What do you mean by "banned"?
Look in any good dictionary for the meaning of words.
Idiot. Banned could mean "cannot be bought", "must never be used on pain of death", or "can't be installed legally by a professional".
So perhaps you'd care to answer for Nugent: Are Schuko plugs/sockets
banned in the UK?
You can own one, so in that sense, they are not banned, like sawn-off
shotguns or flick-knives.
But an electrician may not provide one as part of a domestic or
commercial installation.
England may be different, but in Scotland electricians do what the customer asks, there's no nosy council cunt coming round to check everything.
--
Why is a black bank balance good, but a black credit rating bad? Why isn't it a red credit rating?
The Peeler
2018-03-06 17:17:05 UTC
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On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:45:31 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
You can own one, so in that sense, they are not banned, like sawn-off
shotguns or flick-knives.
But an electrician may not provide one as part of a domestic or
commercial installation.
England may be different, but in Scotland electricians do what the
customer asks, there's no nosy council cunt coming round to check
everything.
Only if the electrician is a sociopathic idiot like you ...which is very
unlikely, Birdbrain!
--
More of Birdbrain's congenital idiocy:
"Shakespeare isn't in English"
Message-ID: <***@red.lan>
MM
2018-03-09 10:12:40 UTC
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Post by JNugent
But an electrician may not provide one as part of a domestic or
commercial installation.
Not true. See my earlier post just now.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 01:13:10 UTC
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Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
--
Two blondes living in Oklahoma were sitting on a bench talking, and one blonde says to the other, "Which do you think is farther away... Florida or the moon?"
The other blonde turns and says "Helloooooooooo, can you see Florida ?????"
MM
2018-02-24 09:34:04 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:13:10 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 17:19:33 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:13:10 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a standard socket, most UK sockets are only fused at 30A. That is (or was) fused at 1A within the lamp, and at 5A in the CU.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids.
It leaves your groin unprotected.
MM
2018-03-02 16:43:46 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:19:33 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:13:10 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a standard socket,
Of course it's a standard socket!

British Standards BS 3052, superseded by BS 3535-1.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-02 18:19:53 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:19:33 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:13:10 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:37:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not in the UK, which is what we were talking about.
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a standard socket,
Of course it's a standard socket!
British Standards BS 3052, superseded by BS 3535-1.
That's not what I meant, I meant it's not the standard socket all around the house for general use. Unlike the USA, we only have one of those, much more versatile.
--
Take notice: when this sign is under water, this road is impassable.
Tim Jackson
2018-02-24 17:41:26 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:34:04 +0000, MM wrote...
Post by MM
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a Schuko socket. No protective earth contact
(SCHUtzKOntact).

UK razor plugs also have different pin spacings from Schuko plugs,
though some razor sockets will accept either.
--
Tim Jackson
***@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
MM
2018-03-02 16:44:38 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:41:26 -0000, Tim Jackson
Post by Tim Jackson
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:34:04 +0000, MM wrote...
Post by MM
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a Schuko socket. No protective earth contact
(SCHUtzKOntact).
UK razor plugs also have different pin spacings from Schuko plugs,
though some razor sockets will accept either.
So are Schuko plugs banned in the UK?

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-02 18:20:59 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:41:26 -0000, Tim Jackson
Post by Tim Jackson
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:34:04 +0000, MM wrote...
Post by MM
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
Are Schuko plugs/sockets banned in the UK?
They aren't used. What would be the point?
But they are. What is that razors only socket doing in your bathroom?
That's not a Schuko socket. No protective earth contact
(SCHUtzKOntact).
UK razor plugs also have different pin spacings from Schuko plugs,
though some razor sockets will accept either.
So are Schuko plugs banned in the UK?
I doubt they're banned. For example theatres still use the old 15A round pin plugs. But I would think installing anything other than the standard modern UK socket for a general purpose outlet in a house would get an electrician into trouble.
--
It's only premarital sex if you're going to get married.
Tim Jackson
2018-03-02 18:38:15 UTC
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On Fri, 02 Mar 2018 16:44:38 +0000, MM wrote...
Post by MM
So are Schuko plugs banned in the UK?
I expect you can use them with a fused 13A adaptor.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/keywords=schuko+to+uk+adapter
--
Tim Jackson
***@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
JNugent
2018-02-22 06:41:21 UTC
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Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely different faults.
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not all over the continent.

Sockets are different as between France, Italy and the Netherlands, for
instance. I have had examples of all of them (Italy uses at least three
different sockets/plugs).

Here's a contribution from some other clever chappy who, like you,
thinks that the use of non-compliant plugs (and maybe sockets) is a good
idea:

<https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/two-pin-plugs-eu-uk-plug-amazon-pixmania/>

QUOTE:
The Schuko plug will fit into the three-pin socket and is perfectly safe
as I have had them at home for over ten years. All you have to do is
insert a screw-driver into the top hole of the socket and insert the
Schuko plug and voilà.
ENDQUOTE

Just remember that the use of non-fused plugs expose the appliance to
continuation of supply right up to the full current draw of the ring
main (30A).

Not so good for a hair dryer.

BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
Mike Scott
2018-02-22 08:50:22 UTC
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On 22/02/18 06:41, JNugent wrote:
.....
Post by JNugent
Here's a contribution from some other clever chappy who, like you,
thinks that the use of non-compliant plugs (and maybe sockets) is a good
<https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/two-pin-plugs-eu-uk-plug-amazon-pixmania/>
The Schuko plug will fit into the three-pin socket and is perfectly safe
as I have had them at home for over ten years. All you have to do is
insert a screw-driver into the top hole of the socket and insert the
Schuko plug and voilà.
ENDQUOTE
Just remember that the use of non-fused plugs expose the appliance to
continuation of supply right up to the full current draw of the ring
main (30A).
Not so good for a hair dryer.
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
I've had two 'net purchases over the years that came with bad plug .
Most recently a Brother printer, which was shipped from some place in
middle Europe (not a hint that it would so be in the ad), which came
with Shuko/IEC lead: I took the easy course of ditching the lead for a
spare.

The other was longer ago: a lead (I forget what for) that had a 3-pin
UK-style plug but clearly unfused: I took a very dim view of this and
complained about the safety issue to the vendor (a major name). Didn't
hear anything for months, when out of the blue arrived a proper
replacement "as part of their continuous checks on quality" or some such
gibberish; no thank-you, of course.

Is it actually a legal requirement to supply a UK-standard plug with kit
sold here?
--
Mike Scott (unet2 <at> [deletethis] scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex
"The only way is Brexit" -- anon.
Flop
2018-02-22 09:12:09 UTC
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Post by Mike Scott
Is it actually a legal requirement to supply a UK-standard plug with kit
sold here?
yes

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1768/contents/made
--
Flop
General Norman Schwarzkopf was asked if he thought there was room for
forgiveness toward terrorists.
The General said, "I believe that forgiving them is God's function...
OUR job is to arrange the meeting."
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-22 10:03:31 UTC
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Post by Mike Scott
.....
Post by JNugent
Here's a contribution from some other clever chappy who, like you,
thinks that the use of non-compliant plugs (and maybe sockets) is a good
<https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/two-pin-plugs-eu-uk-plug-amazon-pixmania/>
The Schuko plug will fit into the three-pin socket and is perfectly safe
as I have had them at home for over ten years. All you have to do is
insert a screw-driver into the top hole of the socket and insert the
Schuko plug and voilà.
ENDQUOTE
Just remember that the use of non-fused plugs expose the appliance to
continuation of supply right up to the full current draw of the ring
main (30A).
Not so good for a hair dryer.
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
I've had two 'net purchases over the years that came with bad plug .
Most recently a Brother printer, which was shipped from some place in
middle Europe (not a hint that it would so be in the ad), which came
with Shuko/IEC lead: I took the easy course of ditching the lead for a
spare.
The other was longer ago: a lead (I forget what for) that had a 3-pin
UK-style plug but clearly unfused: I took a very dim view of this and
complained about the safety issue to the vendor (a major name). Didn't
hear anything for months, when out of the blue arrived a proper
replacement "as part of their continuous checks on quality" or some such
gibberish; no thank-you, of course.
Is it actually a legal requirement to supply a UK-standard plug with kit
sold here?
Yes, but there appears to be exceptions for wall warts and certain small appliances. In the case of wall warts the full 30A could get in, but the internal connections are of finer wire than a fuse and would burn clear in overload.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-22 19:25:44 UTC
Permalink
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:33:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand tha=
t the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS =
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a=
few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundan=
t when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of=
the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either=
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Why do you believe an RCD would replace the effect of a fused plug? =
One is for overload, the other is for earth leakage, two entirely diffe=
rent faults.
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Are Schuko plugs fitted with fuses? No. They're used all over the
Continent. (And by me here, as I have a few appliances still with a
Schuko plug.)
Not all over the continent.
Sockets are different as between France, Italy and the Netherlands, fo=
r
Post by JNugent
instance. I have had examples of all of them (Italy uses at least thre=
e
Post by JNugent
different sockets/plugs).
Here's a contribution from some other clever chappy who, like you,
thinks that the use of non-compliant plugs (and maybe sockets) is a go=
od
Post by JNugent
<https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/two-pin-plugs-eu-uk-plug=
-amazon-pixmania/>
Post by JNugent
The Schuko plug will fit into the three-pin socket and is perfectly sa=
fe
Post by JNugent
as I have had them at home for over ten years. All you have to do is
insert a screw-driver into the top hole of the socket and insert the
Schuko plug and voil=E0.
ENDQUOTE
What makes you think that's in any way wrong?
Post by JNugent
Just remember that the use of non-fused plugs expose the appliance to
continuation of supply right up to the full current draw of the ring
main (30A).
Not so good for a hair dryer.
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
To increase the price of products?

-- =

Said the Duchess of Windsor at tea,
"Young man, do you fart when you pee?"
I replied with some wit
"Do you belch when you shit?"
I think that was one up to me.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-23 09:43:48 UTC
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SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
To increase the price of products?
To standardise the outlet and improve safety.

The previous 2, 5 and 15 amp radial outlets were all different, usually unswitched and unshielded, the only protection was at the consumer unit and there was a profusion of two and three pin adaptors - total shambles.

BS1363 introduced the more fault tolerant and higher capacity ring main, shielded outlets, with earth making first, and standard fused plugs. There have been improvements - shielding on the L & N pins, moulded on plugs, MCB's and RCD's in the consumer units, but essentially the standard is still with us.

IMO the biggest problem is over-rating of the fuses, they should be supplied with a 3A fuse not a 13A one. Also pretty bulky.
Tufnell Park
2018-02-23 12:31:41 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
To increase the price of products?
To standardise the outlet and improve safety.
The previous 2, 5 and 15 amp radial outlets were all different, usually unswitched and unshielded, the only protection was at the consumer unit and there was a profusion of two and three pin adaptors - total shambles.
BS1363 introduced the more fault tolerant and higher capacity ring main, shielded outlets, with earth making first, and standard fused plugs. There have been improvements - shielding on the L & N pins, moulded on plugs, MCB's and RCD's in the consumer units, but essentially the standard is still with us.
IMO the biggest problem is over-rating of the fuses, they should be supplied with a 3A fuse not a 13A one. Also pretty bulky.
The plug fuse is mainly there to ensure that the rated capacity
appliance flex is not exceeded.

It also depends on the rated wattage of the appliance, there is no point
having a 3A fuse in a plug of an appliance rated at over 720w (a kettle
say or a fan heater) as it will 'blow' as soon as it is switched on.

Anyhow most new appliances now come with a 'moulded on' plug so this
should reduce any problems of wrong fuse size.

The 13A plug is no bulkier than most 3 pin continental plugs i have seen.
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 01:13:55 UTC
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Post by Tufnell Park
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
To increase the price of products?
To standardise the outlet and improve safety.
The previous 2, 5 and 15 amp radial outlets were all different, usually unswitched and unshielded, the only protection was at the consumer unit and there was a profusion of two and three pin adaptors - total shambles.
BS1363 introduced the more fault tolerant and higher capacity ring main, shielded outlets, with earth making first, and standard fused plugs. There have been improvements - shielding on the L & N pins, moulded on plugs, MCB's and RCD's in the consumer units, but essentially the standard is still with us.
IMO the biggest problem is over-rating of the fuses, they should be supplied with a 3A fuse not a 13A one. Also pretty bulky.
The plug fuse is mainly there to ensure that the rated capacity
appliance flex is not exceeded.
It also depends on the rated wattage of the appliance, there is no point
having a 3A fuse in a plug of an appliance rated at over 720w (a kettle
say or a fan heater) as it will 'blow' as soon as it is switched on.
Anyhow most new appliances now come with a 'moulded on' plug so this
should reduce any problems of wrong fuse size.
Moulded on plugs still have replaceable fuses.
Post by Tufnell Park
The 13A plug is no bulkier than most 3 pin continental plugs i have seen.
--
A Muslim was sitting next to Paddy on a plane.
Paddy ordered a whisky.
The stewardess asked the Muslim if he'd like a drink.
He replied in disgust "I'd rather be raped by a dozen whores than let liquor touch my lips!"
Paddy handed his drink back and said
"Me too, I didn't know we had a choice!"
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-02-24 01:14:07 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by JNugent
BS 1363 was introduced and is maintained for good reason.
To increase the price of products?
To standardise the outlet and improve safety.
I'm not that pessimistic.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The previous 2, 5 and 15 amp radial outlets were all different, usually unswitched and unshielded, the only protection was at the consumer unit and there was a profusion of two and three pin adaptors - total shambles.
BS1363 introduced the more fault tolerant and higher capacity ring main, shielded outlets, with earth making first, and standard fused plugs. There have been improvements - shielding on the L & N pins, moulded on plugs, MCB's and RCD's in the consumer units, but essentially the standard is still with us.
IMO the biggest problem is over-rating of the fuses, they should be supplied with a 3A fuse not a 13A one. Also pretty bulky.
--
A Muslim was sitting next to Paddy on a plane.
Paddy ordered a whisky.
The stewardess asked the Muslim if he'd like a drink.
He replied in disgust "I'd rather be raped by a dozen whores than let liquor touch my lips!"
Paddy handed his drink back and said
"Me too, I didn't know we had a choice!"
The Peeler
2018-02-24 11:19:40 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:14:07 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
I'm not that pessimistic.
You are ONLY sociopathic! Check your medication and read what it's used
against, Birdbrain!
--
damduck-***@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <***@4ax.com>
Jeff
2018-02-20 08:25:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
An RCD does not protect against a short between L & N.

Jeff
harry
2018-02-20 08:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
MM
2018-02-21 09:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 00:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.
Why did Rover never cotton onto this British is best stuff?
--
Walking on your hands is simply chickening out in the middle of a cartwheel.
MM
2018-03-12 09:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:44:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.
Why did Rover never cotton onto this British is best stuff?
Well, they were British! If they couldn't make good cars, it's their
fault, no one else's.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 13:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:44:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.
Why did Rover never cotton onto this British is best stuff?
Well, they were British! If they couldn't make good cars, it's their
fault, no one else's.
They made fucking abysmal cars. Distributor behind the wheelarch so a puddle made the engine stop. Automatic gearboxes that change like a learner driver. Switches in non standard positions so you can't find the headlights in the dark. Central locking that doesn't open all the doors. Rear windows you can't see out of as they're so small.
--
Women are not served here. You have to bring your own.
MM
2018-03-13 20:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:04:25 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:44:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.
Why did Rover never cotton onto this British is best stuff?
Well, they were British! If they couldn't make good cars, it's their
fault, no one else's.
They made fucking abysmal cars. Distributor behind the wheelarch so a puddle made the engine stop. Automatic gearboxes that change like a learner driver. Switches in non standard positions so you can't find the headlights in the dark. Central locking that doesn't open all the doors. Rear windows you can't see out of as they're so small.
Maybe that's why the company is now owned by the Germans, who design
things properly.

MM
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-13 20:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:04:25 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:44:45 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:47:35 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Drivel.
Fuses and RCDs have completely different functions shit-fer-brains.
The UK ringmain/13a plugs is the most advanced system in the world.
That's 'cos it's British, of course.
Why did Rover never cotton onto this British is best stuff?
Well, they were British! If they couldn't make good cars, it's their
fault, no one else's.
They made fucking abysmal cars. Distributor behind the wheelarch so a puddle made the engine stop. Automatic gearboxes that change like a learner driver. Switches in non standard positions so you can't find the headlights in the dark. Central locking that doesn't open all the doors. Rear windows you can't see out of as they're so small.
Maybe that's why the company is now owned by the Germans, who design
things properly.
No it isn't. Rover no longer exists. Land Rover and MG and Jaguar continue on.
--
In the UK, 90% of things are prohibited. The other 10% are compulsory.
Paul Cummins
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
They made fucking abysmal cars. Distributor behind the wheelarch
so a puddle made the engine stop. Automatic gearboxes that change
like a learner driver. Switches in non standard positions so you
can't find the headlights in the dark. Central locking that
doesn't open all the doors. Rear windows you can't see out of as
they're so small.
Maybe that's why the company is now owned by the Germans, who design
things properly.
Actually the company is owned by the Chinese, the name is owned by the
Indians.

Ford, now they *are* German cars.
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
====
Visit North Kent's 2nd biggest supplier of Sour Grapes
http://www.grapesdirect.co.uk
harry
2018-02-20 08:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Due to EUSSR regulation, electrical standard here have fallen.
The Grenfel tower fire was caused by reduced electrical standards.
MM
2018-02-21 09:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:52:05 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Due to EUSSR regulation, electrical standard here have fallen.
The Grenfel tower fire was caused by reduced electrical standards.
It is suspected of having started by an old Hotpoint fridge freezer.

Nothing to do with electrical standards. The appliance had probably
been a deathtrap for years.

But now you're implying that the EU caused the Grenfell Tower fire!
Good one!

MM
Ian Jackson
2018-02-21 10:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:52:05 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that
the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland
and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually
no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Due to EUSSR regulation, electrical standard here have fallen.
The Grenfel tower fire was caused by reduced electrical standards.
It is suspected of having started by an old Hotpoint fridge freezer.
Nothing to do with electrical standards. The appliance had probably
been a deathtrap for years.
But now you're implying that the EU caused the Grenfell Tower fire!
Good one!
MM
AIUI, the cladding DID meet EU standards - and some cited this as yet
another example of how useless (and, indeed, dangerous) the EU was.
However, I gather that the real problem was that the standard it met did
NOT apply to how it was being used (more than four stories?)..
--
Ian
James Wilkinson Sword
2018-03-12 00:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:52:05 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that
the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS
1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland
and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely
redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually
no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Due to EUSSR regulation, electrical standard here have fallen.
The Grenfel tower fire was caused by reduced electrical standards.
It is suspected of having started by an old Hotpoint fridge freezer.
Nothing to do with electrical standards. The appliance had probably
been a deathtrap for years.
But now you're implying that the EU caused the Grenfell Tower fire!
Good one!
MM
AIUI, the cladding DID meet EU standards - and some cited this as yet
another example of how useless (and, indeed, dangerous) the EU was.
However, I gather that the real problem was that the standard it met did
NOT apply to how it was being used (more than four stories?)..
Nobody should live above someone else.
--
Marital Status: Not Good
Wife's Name: Plaintiff
harry
2018-02-21 17:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:52:05 -0800 (PST), harry
Post by harry
Post by R. Mark Clayton
"In a speech tomorrow, Brexit Secretary David Davis will demand that the UK's regulatory standards are accepted across the EU post-Brexit"
Interesting.
Whilst they were innovative when introduced sixty years ago the BS 1363 [fused] plugs used in the UK are only used in the UK, Ireland and a few post colonial places. Nowadays they are almost completely redundant when residual current devices protect outlets. Virtually no chance of the EU adopting this standard, along with many others.
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
Due to EUSSR regulation, electrical standard here have fallen.
The Grenfel tower fire was caused by reduced electrical standards.
It is suspected of having started by an old Hotpoint fridge freezer.
Nothing to do with electrical standards. The appliance had probably
been a deathtrap for years.
But now you're implying that the EU caused the Grenfell Tower fire!
Good one!
MM
The EUSSR standards have allowed the uses of thermoplastic cabinet rears on many white goods which can burn.
Previously they were metal.

The same applies with consumer units.
https://envirograf.com/guides/comply-amendment-3-regarding-consumer-units/
So yes, the EUSSR's reduced standards are responsible for the Grenfell fire and many other incidents.
One of the many reasons for leaving.
Fredxx
2018-02-21 19:25:08 UTC
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Raw Message
On 19/02/2018 19:06, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
True to Remoaner's form, to be abusive to a Brexiter.

You're come across as an embittered sore loser.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-02-21 19:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fredxx
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
True to Remoaner's form, to be abusive to a Brexiter.
You're come across as an embittered sore loser.
Drat suss'ed out. Still nearly all the 65 million in the UK will be losers due to Brexit...
Fredxx
2018-02-21 19:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Fredxx
<snip>
Post by R. Mark Clayton
DD seems to have had two orifices interchanged at birth - he either
talks **** or talks out of his **** ...
True to Remoaner's form, to be abusive to a Brexiter.
You're come across as an embittered sore loser.
Drat suss'ed out. Still nearly all the 65 million in the UK will be losers due to Brexit...
Only in your dreams.
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