Discussion:
Why is the pound so low against the euro?
(too old to reply)
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-12 11:37:56 UTC
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987

Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...

You can't fool the market perhaps?


PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -

"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.

And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018.
"
Norman Wells
2017-08-12 18:05:24 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.

Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.

You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
Sid
2017-08-12 18:19:09 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro
collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded
by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if
anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the
dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the
Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even
forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on
the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
People say the same thing about the Lie Dems.

Must be a Clayton thing.
pensive hamster
2017-08-12 18:23:41 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
Norman Wells
2017-08-12 18:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.

If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
pensive hamster
2017-08-13 15:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
It's not clear what you mean by State control. States still
have to operate within the free market, and are subject to
the market forces of supply and demand.

The only ways they can "control" or influence exchange rates
are by trying to increase the demand side, by buying large
amounts of their own currency; or alternatively by trying to
increase the supply side, by holding large reserves of their
own currency, ready to sell when they judge that is the
correct tactic.
Post by Norman Wells
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
Again, it's not clear what you mean by "the overall state
of the economy" (TOSOTE). If there was some way of
objectively quantifying TOSOTE, then you could have lots
of brightly-coloured graphs demonstrating, or failing to
demonstrate, a correlation between TOSOTE and the
exchange rate.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/forex/how-forex-exchange-rates-set.asp

'Factors That Influence Exchange Rates

'Floating rates are determined by the market forces of supply
and demand. How much demand there is in relation to supply
of a currency will determine that currency's value in relation to
another currency. For example, if the demand for U.S. dollars
by Europeans increases, the supply-demand relationship will
cause an increase in price of the U.S. dollar in relation to the
euro.

'There are countless geopolitical and economic announcements
that affect the exchange rates between two countries, but a
few of the most popular include: interest rate decisions,
unemployment rates, inflation reports, gross domestic product
numbers and manufacturing information. ...'
Norman Wells
2017-08-13 15:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
It's not clear what you mean by State control. States still
have to operate within the free market, and are subject to
the market forces of supply and demand.
No they don't. Most do, but it's a fairly recent innovation. Any State
can impose currency controls that mean its currency effectively cannot
be traded externally, as China used to for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls
Post by pensive hamster
The only ways they can "control" or influence exchange rates
are by trying to increase the demand side, by buying large
amounts of their own currency; or alternatively by trying to
increase the supply side, by holding large reserves of their
own currency, ready to sell when they judge that is the
correct tactic.
Post by Norman Wells
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
Again, it's not clear what you mean by "the overall state
of the economy" (TOSOTE). If there was some way of
objectively quantifying TOSOTE, then you could have lots
of brightly-coloured graphs demonstrating, or failing to
demonstrate, a correlation between TOSOTE and the
exchange rate.
It's whatever MM and his ilk think is indicated by a low or declining
exchange rate. Perhaps you should be asking him.
Post by pensive hamster
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/forex/how-forex-exchange-rates-set.asp
'Factors That Influence Exchange Rates
'Floating rates are determined by the market forces of supply
and demand. How much demand there is in relation to supply
of a currency will determine that currency's value in relation to
another currency. For example, if the demand for U.S. dollars
by Europeans increases, the supply-demand relationship will
cause an increase in price of the U.S. dollar in relation to the
euro.
'There are countless geopolitical and economic announcements
that affect the exchange rates between two countries, but a
few of the most popular include: interest rate decisions,
unemployment rates, inflation reports, gross domestic product
numbers and manufacturing information. ...'
And who is it buying or selling currencies and creating an imbalance in
the supply or demand? It's none other than speculators in large
financial institutions.

The 10% fall in sterling relative to the Euro just after the exit polls
following the referendum last June wasn't due to holidaymakers rushing
to change their money, was it? It was down to massive deals being
placed by dealing rooms who all hoped to make a massive profit, ie gamblers.
pensive hamster
2017-08-13 17:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
It's not clear what you mean by State control. States still
have to operate within the free market, and are subject to
the market forces of supply and demand.
No they don't. Most do, but it's a fairly recent innovation. Any State
can impose currency controls that mean its currency effectively cannot
be traded externally, as China used to for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls
From that Wikipedia link:

'... Often, foreign exchange controls can result in the creation
of black markets to exchange the weaker currency for stronger
currencies. This leads to a situation where the exchange rate
for the foreign currency is much higher than the rate set by the
government, and therefore creates a shadow currency
exchange market. As such, it is unclear whether governments
have the ability to enact effective exchange controls.[1]'
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
The only ways they can "control" or influence exchange rates
are by trying to increase the demand side, by buying large
amounts of their own currency; or alternatively by trying to
increase the supply side, by holding large reserves of their
own currency, ready to sell when they judge that is the
correct tactic.
Post by Norman Wells
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
Again, it's not clear what you mean by "the overall state
of the economy" (TOSOTE). If there was some way of
objectively quantifying TOSOTE, then you could have lots
of brightly-coloured graphs demonstrating, or failing to
demonstrate, a correlation between TOSOTE and the
exchange rate.
It's whatever MM and his ilk think is indicated by a low or declining
exchange rate. Perhaps you should be asking him.
I'm asking you, it was a term which you introduced 3
paragraphs above, when you wrote: " If you're in the hands
of speculators, though, there is little correlation between the
exchange rate and *the overall state of the economy*, and I
think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator."
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/forex/how-forex-exchange-rates-set.asp
'Factors That Influence Exchange Rates
'Floating rates are determined by the market forces of supply
and demand. How much demand there is in relation to supply
of a currency will determine that currency's value in relation to
another currency. For example, if the demand for U.S. dollars
by Europeans increases, the supply-demand relationship will
cause an increase in price of the U.S. dollar in relation to the
euro.
'There are countless geopolitical and economic announcements
that affect the exchange rates between two countries, but a
few of the most popular include: interest rate decisions,
unemployment rates, inflation reports, gross domestic product
numbers and manufacturing information. ...'
And who is it buying or selling currencies and creating an imbalance in
the supply or demand? It's none other than speculators in large
financial institutions.
Next time I am in Tescos, I shall reflect on my new status
as a groceries speculator, creating an imbalance in the
supply or demand of smoked salmon.
Post by Norman Wells
The 10% fall in sterling relative to the Euro just after the exit polls
following the referendum last June wasn't due to holidaymakers rushing
to change their money, was it? It was down to massive deals being
placed by dealing rooms who all hoped to make a massive profit, ie gamblers.
I hope you are not suffering from some kind of Freudian
"massive deal" envy.

I might agree with you that merchant banking and financial
wheeler-dealing can create profits far in excess of any
obvious "value-added" benefit to the wider economy, but
I don't think either of us has any real idea how to change
that.
Norman Wells
2017-08-13 18:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
It's not clear what you mean by State control. States still
have to operate within the free market, and are subject to
the market forces of supply and demand.
No they don't. Most do, but it's a fairly recent innovation. Any State
can impose currency controls that mean its currency effectively cannot
be traded externally, as China used to for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls
'... Often, foreign exchange controls can result in the creation
of black markets to exchange the weaker currency for stronger
currencies. This leads to a situation where the exchange rate
for the foreign currency is much higher than the rate set by the
government, and therefore creates a shadow currency
exchange market. As such, it is unclear whether governments
have the ability to enact effective exchange controls.[1]'
How big the black market is, though, depends on the supply of the
currency in demand, and any penalties for breaking the law on exchange.

It's a question therefore of what is meant by 'effective'.
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
The only ways they can "control" or influence exchange rates
are by trying to increase the demand side, by buying large
amounts of their own currency; or alternatively by trying to
increase the supply side, by holding large reserves of their
own currency, ready to sell when they judge that is the
correct tactic.
Post by Norman Wells
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
Again, it's not clear what you mean by "the overall state
of the economy" (TOSOTE). If there was some way of
objectively quantifying TOSOTE, then you could have lots
of brightly-coloured graphs demonstrating, or failing to
demonstrate, a correlation between TOSOTE and the
exchange rate.
It's whatever MM and his ilk think is indicated by a low or declining
exchange rate. Perhaps you should be asking him.
I'm asking you, it was a term which you introduced 3
paragraphs above, when you wrote: " If you're in the hands
of speculators, though, there is little correlation between the
exchange rate and *the overall state of the economy*, and I
think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator."
It's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator of anything at
all. And that includes 'the overall state of the economy' however you
interpret that.
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/forex/how-forex-exchange-rates-set.asp
'Factors That Influence Exchange Rates
'Floating rates are determined by the market forces of supply
and demand. How much demand there is in relation to supply
of a currency will determine that currency's value in relation to
another currency. For example, if the demand for U.S. dollars
by Europeans increases, the supply-demand relationship will
cause an increase in price of the U.S. dollar in relation to the
euro.
'There are countless geopolitical and economic announcements
that affect the exchange rates between two countries, but a
few of the most popular include: interest rate decisions,
unemployment rates, inflation reports, gross domestic product
numbers and manufacturing information. ...'
And who is it buying or selling currencies and creating an imbalance in
the supply or demand? It's none other than speculators in large
financial institutions.
Next time I am in Tescos, I shall reflect on my new status
as a groceries speculator, creating an imbalance in the
supply or demand of smoked salmon.
No, you're not a speculator because you're trading in actual goods.
There's a difference between that and trading in something intangible
like currencies. There's also a difference in likely scale.
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
The 10% fall in sterling relative to the Euro just after the exit polls
following the referendum last June wasn't due to holidaymakers rushing
to change their money, was it? It was down to massive deals being
placed by dealing rooms who all hoped to make a massive profit, ie gamblers.
I hope you are not suffering from some kind of Freudian
"massive deal" envy.
I might agree with you that merchant banking and financial
wheeler-dealing can create profits far in excess of any
obvious "value-added" benefit to the wider economy, but
I don't think either of us has any real idea how to change
that.
No, we don't. If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
pensive hamster
2017-08-14 16:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, 13 August 2017 19:10:00 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.

It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
subsequently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM

'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".

'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
Norman Wells
2017-08-14 17:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.

And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Post by pensive hamster
It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.

Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.

Sorry, but it doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement to me to have
speculators in charge.
pensive hamster
2017-08-14 18:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
That might have been good value for the UK, if "White
Wednesday" stimulated strong economic performance
after 1992.
Post by Norman Wells
Sorry, but it doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement to me to have
speculators in charge.
So propose a more sensible arrangement ...

Anyway, I'm not sure the speculators really are in charge,
they are all speculating against each other.

If one could discern which speculators were in charge, it
would be easy to make money just by copying them.
Norman Wells
2017-08-14 20:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
That might have been good value for the UK, if "White
Wednesday" stimulated strong economic performance
after 1992.
That's not the general view.
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Sorry, but it doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement to me to have
speculators in charge.
So propose a more sensible arrangement ...
Stste control is far more sensible, but I can see it doesn't fit well
with a free trade ethos in everything ethos.
Post by pensive hamster
Anyway, I'm not sure the speculators really are in charge,
they are all speculating against each other.
If one could discern which speculators were in charge, it
would be easy to make money just by copying them.
It's like poker. First you have to be lucky. Then you need deeper
pockets than those you are playing against.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-08-14 19:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.
And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Post by pensive hamster
It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Mostly *jew* speculators such as Soros whose ONLY loyalties are to
money and 'Israeel'.

Cheers!

RJ (preferred jew aliash)
- -





"We CAN hide forever."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he will
NEVER prove where he infests or give his real jew name

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade
Unionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak out
because I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and there
wasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."
- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Illuc nisi Dei gratia vadam.
- Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe (? - )
The Peeler
2017-08-14 21:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:38:22 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.
And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Post by pensive hamster
It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Mostly *jew* speculators such as Soros whose ONLY loyalties are to
money and 'Israeel'.
<BG> "The Jews", AGAIN, poor psychotic idiot? LMAO!
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Cheers!
BTW, "cheers"??? Is that what you say when you are about to swallow nazi
jizz, you housebound cocksucking wanker? <BG>
--
Retarded, anal, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident
psychopath, dumb serbian bitch G. Razovic (aka "The Rectum").
The Jews
2017-08-15 00:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Gordon Radovich [***@tiscali.co.uk], the unemployable, impotent,
glue-huffing rope-dodging pedophile nazi-wannabe Serbian coprophiliac,
tried to cover up his abject fear of the fascist-slapping,
nazi-tormenting, totalitarian-taunting, superior Jews that torture him
daily, and reveal his complete and total ignorance, and expose his
countless excuses to avoid getting Nuremberged®, took time out of his
busy schedule of felching his mother for spending money and then
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Norman Wells
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Mostly *jew* speculators such as Soros whose ONLY loyalties are to
money and 'Israeel'.
Of course, it's only 3,889,500,000 USD, which is real money. Most of
the Jews I know wouldn't even bend over to pick that up off the
sidewalk.

But being an unemployed pedophile, you wouldn't know what it's like to
invest and speculate and get rich off your quasi-nazi slaves and their
42% interest car title loans, would you?

ROFLMJAO


"Don't ask me questions!"

-Poor dumb anal Razovic,
each time he was asked how he would
like me to prove my name
and where I live.

happy zombie about retarded Razovic:
"i always wondered what would happen if somone with an iq well under 100
posted to usenet. now i know."
MID: <***@4ax.com>

"Gordon? Who the fuck is Gordon??? Och aye the noo!"
- Gordon, after an especially heavy night of glue huffing and sodomizing himself.
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Iudaeis rectores orbis terrarum
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-08-15 13:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 17:26:15 -0700, 'holocaust Überlebender'®™ Klaun
Post by The Jews
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Norman Wells
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Mostly *jew* speculators such as Soros whose ONLY loyalties are to
money and 'Israeel'.
Of course
What I said, kikey.
Post by The Jews
it's only 3,889,500,000 USD, which is real money. Most of
the Jews I know wouldn't even bend over to pick that up off the
sidewalk.
In case there's another jew behind them, presumably.
Post by The Jews
But being an unemployed jew pedophile, I wouldn't know what it's like to
invest and speculate and get rich off our 42% interest car title loans, would I?
<snigger>

Cheers!

RJ (preferred jew aliash)
- -





"We CAN hide forever."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he will
NEVER prove where he infests or give his real jew name

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade
Unionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak out
because I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and there
wasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."
- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Illuc nisi Dei gratia vadam.
- Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe (? - )
The Peeler
2017-08-15 17:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 06:07:26 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Post by The Jews
Of course, it's only 3,889,500,000 USD, which is real money. Most of
the Jews I know wouldn't even bend over to pick that up off the
sidewalk.
But being an unemployed pedophile, you wouldn't know what it's like to
invest and speculate and get rich off your quasi-nazi slaves and their
42% interest car title loans, would you?
ROFLMJAO
I wouldn't!
See!
Cheers!
BTW, "cheers"??? Is that what you say when you are about to swallow nazi
jizz, you housebound cocksucking wanker? <BG>
--
Nefesh describing anal Razovic:
"REVD NEMO pudding and pie,
Kiss the boys and make them cry,
When the girls come out to play,
REVD NEMO runs away."
MID: <fa38b042-8f6d-4757-908e-***@googlegroups.com>
Sick old pedo Andrew "Andrzej" Baron (aka "Ron Jacobson"/etc)
2017-08-15 22:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@4ax.com>,
A shiteating cowardly nazoid sub-louse PEDO named Andrew "Andrzej"
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
We CAN hide forever.
NO, shiteating nazoid pedo... you CAN'T!
Sick old pedo Andrew "Andrzej" Baron (aka "Ron Jacobson"/etc)
2017-08-15 22:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@4ax.com>,
A shiteating cowardly nazoid sub-louse PEDO named Andrew "Andrzej"
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Mostly
ONLY shiteating pedos like YOU, who peddle defective, pirated software!

<quote>

Original Microsoft CD in jewel case with CD key sticker on the back.
Full version.
GBP 30=00 incl recorded delivery postage.
(sorry, spamtrap in original message)
e-mail to: ***@ukgateway.net

</quote>

TSSK!
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-15 09:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.
Ha - usually acting in the interests of their party!
Post by Norman Wells
And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Ha - when did that last happen - Profumo?
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Profit - prosperity, but then not having any is a price worth paying for Brexit...
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Sorry, but it doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement to me to have
speculators in charge.
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound. In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.

Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation. Things would even be worse had the US not elected president Chump.
Norman Wells
2017-08-15 10:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Norman Wells
If you believe in a free market in currencies you will be
subject to the whims of those who speculate in them.
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.
Ha - usually acting in the interests of their party!
Post by Norman Wells
And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Ha - when did that last happen - Profumo?
No, George Osborne. He's no longer Chancellor in case you hadn't noticed.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
It is at least arguable that (successful) speculators are
more objective than politicians, and that for example, the
"correction" in the exchange rate of the pound sterling
which occurred on "Black Wednesday" was in fact a
good thing, stimulating strong economic performance
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Profit - prosperity, but then not having any is a price worth paying for Brexit...
There's a difference between personal gain and national gain.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism#Pound_sterling.27s_forced_withdrawal_from_the_ERM
'The United Kingdom entered the ERM [European Exchange
Rate Mechanism] in October 1990, but was forced to exit the
programme within two years after the pound sterling came
under major pressure from currency speculators, including
George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
'There has been some revision of attitude towards this event
given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992,
with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[8]'
It cost the government, ie us, £3.3 billion trying and failing to undo
the actions of the speculators and prop up the £ to keep it in the ERM.
Where did that £3.3 billion go? Into the hands of the speculators of
course.
Sorry, but it doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement to me to have
speculators in charge.
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound.
If you allow a free market in your currency, speculators control it and
that's what can happen.

I'm just saying that doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.
Indeed he did, and Soros became very, very rich at our expense.

He's not where I would have chosen to put my money.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation.
There's no other viable explanation. All exchange rates in a free
market are dictated by speculators. Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.

Things would even be worse had the US not elected president Chump.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-15 11:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
And if you believe in State control, you will be subject to
the whims of politicians and Chancellors of the Exchequer.
At least that's someone we assume is acting in the interests of the
nation, not just lining his own or his company's pockets.
Ha - usually acting in the interests of their party!
Post by Norman Wells
And someone who is accountable to parliament and who can be removed.
Ha - when did that last happen - Profumo?
No, George Osborne. He's no longer Chancellor in case you hadn't noticed.
Was there a vote of no confidence in him in Parliament, or did he lose his seat at the election? Several junior ministers did I suppose.

SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
They weren't interested in good things or bad things, only in making a
profit.
Profit - prosperity, but then not having any is a price worth paying for Brexit...
There's a difference between personal gain and national gain.
Generally, but not always, national gain is the aggregation of personal gain.

An example would be building the canals and railways in the 18th and 19th centuries.

SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound.
If you allow a free market in your currency, speculators control it and
that's what can happen.
If you don't allow a free market in your currency then you get official and real exchange rates, cheating the system and a black market in the currency as with the Venezuelan Bolivar right now, the Rouble before 1989 and even here in the UK before the bizarre "dollar premium" was scrapped in 1979.

BTW I had not realised that others had made similar predictions to mine that the pound would drop 10% on a leave vote: -

http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2016-06-22/Will-a-return-to-the-Dollar-Premium-be-necessary-if-the-U-K-leaves-the-E-U.html
Post by Norman Wells
I'm just saying that doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement.
A free market system is a bit like democracy - it is the worst off all systems apart from all the others that have been tried.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.
Indeed he did, and Soros became very, very rich at our expense.
He's not where I would have chosen to put my money.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation.
There's no other viable explanation. All exchange rates in a free
market are dictated by speculators.
Absolute and complete rubbish. Speculators can have effects in the very short term - in the long term it is demand and the relative real values of currencies that determine Fx rates.
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Post by Norman Wells
Things would even be worse had the US not elected president Chump.
Who has dragged the dollar down with all his anti-trade rhetoric.
Norman Wells
2017-08-15 12:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound.
If you allow a free market in your currency, speculators control it and
that's what can happen.
If you don't allow a free market in your currency then you get official and real exchange rates, cheating the system and a black market in the currency as with the Venezuelan Bolivar right now, the Rouble before 1989 and even here in the UK before the bizarre "dollar premium" was scrapped in 1979.
The trick is in keeping the black market at a relatively low level,
which you can do to a significant extent by making it illegal and
severely punishing those whom you catch indulging in it.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
BTW I had not realised that others had made similar predictions to mine that the pound would drop 10% on a leave vote: -
No, I don't suppose you had.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2016-06-22/Will-a-return-to-the-Dollar-Premium-be-necessary-if-the-U-K-leaves-the-E-U.html
Post by Norman Wells
I'm just saying that doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement.
A free market system is a bit like democracy - it is the worst off all systems apart from all the others that have been tried.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.
Indeed he did, and Soros became very, very rich at our expense.
He's not where I would have chosen to put my money.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation.
There's no other viable explanation. All exchange rates in a free
market are dictated by speculators.
Absolute and complete rubbish. Speculators can have effects in the very short term - in the long term it is demand and the relative real values of currencies that determine Fx rates.
No, they control it absolutely. What they want, though, are 'events'
which they can exploit. When there is a dearth of 'events' from which
they can make a quick buck they look elsewhere and the exchange rate
stabilises, as at the moment.

By the way, there is no 'real value' of any currency, only the level at
which speculators trade equally with each other at any particular time.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Which leaves us completely in the hands of the speculators.

Is that good?
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-15 14:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound.
If you allow a free market in your currency, speculators control it and
that's what can happen.
If you don't allow a free market in your currency then you get official and real exchange rates, cheating the system and a black market in the currency as with the Venezuelan Bolivar right now, the Rouble before 1989 and even here in the UK before the bizarre "dollar premium" was scrapped in 1979.
The trick is in keeping the black market at a relatively low level,
which you can do to a significant extent by making it illegal and
severely punishing those whom you catch indulging in it.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
BTW I had not realised that others had made similar predictions to mine that the pound would drop 10% on a leave vote: -
No, I don't suppose you had.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2016-06-22/Will-a-return-to-the-Dollar-Premium-be-necessary-if-the-U-K-leaves-the-E-U.html
Post by Norman Wells
I'm just saying that doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement.
A free market system is a bit like democracy - it is the worst off all systems apart from all the others that have been tried.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.
Indeed he did, and Soros became very, very rich at our expense.
He's not where I would have chosen to put my money.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation.
There's no other viable explanation. All exchange rates in a free
market are dictated by speculators.
Absolute and complete rubbish. Speculators can have effects in the very short term - in the long term it is demand and the relative real values of currencies that determine Fx rates.
No, they control it absolutely. What they want, though, are 'events'
which they can exploit. When there is a dearth of 'events' from which
they can make a quick buck they look elsewhere and the exchange rate
stabilises, as at the moment.
By the way, there is no 'real value' of any currency, only the level at
which speculators trade equally with each other at any particular time.
Which would be a nil sum game - why play that?
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Which leaves us completely in the hands of the speculators.
Is that good?
You imagine that ghoulish "speculators" control the currency market, and presumably commodity prices as well. Whilst they do play in the market, usually with the beneficial effect of dampening down fluctuation (e.g. you can get a forward price to buy or sell for a modest premium) the main factor is the general view of the value of the currency and how desirable it may be to hold it or sell.

The really silly part is that you also imagine that speculators are betting against the pound because they dislike Brexit. At odds even with your own assertion they are only in it for the money, what makes you think Fx traders give a fig whether Brexit happens or not (other than the likelihood of FTT)?
Norman Wells
2017-08-15 14:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The fault here was the chancellor trying to buck the market and maintain an artificial level for the pound.
If you allow a free market in your currency, speculators control it and
that's what can happen.
If you don't allow a free market in your currency then you get official and real exchange rates, cheating the system and a black market in the currency as with the Venezuelan Bolivar right now, the Rouble before 1989 and even here in the UK before the bizarre "dollar premium" was scrapped in 1979.
The trick is in keeping the black market at a relatively low level,
which you can do to a significant extent by making it illegal and
severely punishing those whom you catch indulging in it.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
BTW I had not realised that others had made similar predictions to mine that the pound would drop 10% on a leave vote: -
No, I don't suppose you had.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2016-06-22/Will-a-return-to-the-Dollar-Premium-be-necessary-if-the-U-K-leaves-the-E-U.html
Post by Norman Wells
I'm just saying that doesn't seem a very sensible arrangement.
A free market system is a bit like democracy - it is the worst off all systems apart from all the others that have been tried.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
In the real world there was genuine pressure on the pound and yes of course speculators, in particular Soros, piled in for a *short term* profit when the chancellor became unstuck.
Indeed he did, and Soros became very, very rich at our expense.
He's not where I would have chosen to put my money.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Not much sign of speculation in the 14 months of low pound apart from Brexieers clutching at the straw that it is all caused by speculation.
There's no other viable explanation. All exchange rates in a free
market are dictated by speculators.
Absolute and complete rubbish. Speculators can have effects in the very short term - in the long term it is demand and the relative real values of currencies that determine Fx rates.
No, they control it absolutely. What they want, though, are 'events'
which they can exploit. When there is a dearth of 'events' from which
they can make a quick buck they look elsewhere and the exchange rate
stabilises, as at the moment.
By the way, there is no 'real value' of any currency, only the level at
which speculators trade equally with each other at any particular time.
Which would be a nil sum game - why play that?
Why do people play poker?

Because they think they can win, and they're encouraged by those who do.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Which leaves us completely in the hands of the speculators.
Is that good?
You imagine that ghoulish "speculators" control the currency market, and presumably commodity prices as well. Whilst they do play in the market, usually with the beneficial effect of dampening down fluctuation (e.g. you can get a forward price to buy or sell for a modest premium) the main factor is the general view of the value of the currency and how desirable it may be to hold it or sell.
The main factor is not the general view, though, but just that of the
speculators. They're the only ones in the game.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The really silly part is that you also imagine that speculators are betting against the pound because they dislike Brexit. At odds even with your own assertion they are only in it for the money, what makes you think Fx traders give a fig whether Brexit happens or not (other than the likelihood of FTT)?
I've never said they do. In fact, I've said they don't care one way or
the other. It's just an 'event' on which they can gamble. That's the
only thing that interests or excites them.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-15 15:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
By the way, there is no 'real value' of any currency, only the level at
which speculators trade equally with each other at any particular time.
Which would be a nil sum game - why play that?
Why do people play poker?
Because they think they can win, and they're encouraged by those who do.
There are other nil sum games people play for pleasure, and if they win money.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Which leaves us completely in the hands of the speculators.
Is that good?
You imagine that ghoulish "speculators" control the currency market, and presumably commodity prices as well. Whilst they do play in the market, usually with the beneficial effect of dampening down fluctuation (e.g. you can get a forward price to buy or sell for a modest premium) the main factor is the general view of the value of the currency and how desirable it may be to hold it or sell.
The main factor is not the general view, though, but just that of the
speculators. They're the only ones in the game.
Really - so how do you think wine, citrus and vine fruits, most petrol etc. etc. get paid for? They are the only ones speculating in Fx, but the bulk of transactions are real to pay for goods in another currency.

Anyway, why aren't there other speculators speculating that the ones you say forced the pound down are as wrong as you think they are?

Face up to it man - the pound is low because the economic future for the UK post Brexit looks bleak indeed.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The really silly part is that you also imagine that speculators are betting against the pound because they dislike Brexit. At odds even with your own assertion they are only in it for the money, what makes you think Fx traders give a fig whether Brexit happens or not (other than the likelihood of FTT)?
I've never said they do. In fact, I've said they don't care one way or
the other. It's just an 'event' on which they can gamble. That's the
only thing that interests or excites them.
Norman Wells
2017-08-15 15:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
By the way, there is no 'real value' of any currency, only the level at
which speculators trade equally with each other at any particular time.
Which would be a nil sum game - why play that?
Why do people play poker?
Because they think they can win, and they're encouraged by those who do.
There are other nil sum games people play for pleasure, and if they win money.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Central banks like the Bank of
England don't like that and try to exert some measure of control but
they seem unable to do so.
Yes because if they offer foreign currency at a discount (more dollars for your pounds) people will buy them and go and spend it abroad where they will get more goods for the money.
Which leaves us completely in the hands of the speculators.
Is that good?
You imagine that ghoulish "speculators" control the currency market, and presumably commodity prices as well. Whilst they do play in the market, usually with the beneficial effect of dampening down fluctuation (e.g. you can get a forward price to buy or sell for a modest premium) the main factor is the general view of the value of the currency and how desirable it may be to hold it or sell.
The main factor is not the general view, though, but just that of the
speculators. They're the only ones in the game.
Really - so how do you think wine, citrus and vine fruits, most petrol etc. etc. get paid for? They are the only ones speculating in Fx, but the bulk of transactions are real to pay for goods in another currency.
That currency has been exchanged at the rate set by the speculators,
just as what you exchange when you go on holiday is. Those who use the
currencies don't have any choice or get any say in the rate. They just
have to lump whatever it is.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Anyway, why aren't there other speculators speculating that the ones you say forced the pound down are as wrong as you think they are?
I haven't said they're wrong. There is no wrong or right.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Face up to it man - the pound is low because the economic future for the UK post Brexit looks bleak indeed.
It's where it is because those who trade in it have reached an
equilibrium state. But what I maintain is that very little can be read
into where it happens to be. The process that got it there is too dodgy
to be reliable.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-08-14 19:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
That is SOOOOOOOOOOOO 20th Century racist! That would NEVER work
today!

Cheers!

RJ (preferred jew aliash)
- -





"We CAN hide forever."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he will
NEVER prove where he infests or give his real jew name

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade
Unionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak out
because I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and there
wasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."
- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Illuc nisi Dei gratia vadam.
- Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe (? - )
The Peeler
2017-08-14 21:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:41:20 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by pensive hamster
The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992
was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday".
That is SOOOOOOOOOOOO 20th Century racist! That would NEVER work
today!
Is it? And wouldn't it? <BG>
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Cheers!
BTW, "cheers"??? Is that what you say when you are about to swallow nazi
jizz, you housebound cocksucking wanker? <BG>
--
Jack G about dumb anal Razovic:
"She is just a small pain in the ass that has no friends."
MM
2017-08-16 07:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.

MM

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Norman Wells
2017-08-16 08:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Norman Wells
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
How else would you propose establishing the exchange rate
between various currencies?
The only other way is by State control, which some countries do and
regard as the best way. If you believe in a free market economy,
however, I guess you're always in the hands of speculators who will
sometimes make your holidays and imported goods that much more (or less)
expensive, depending on their greed.
If you're in the hands of speculators, though, there is little
correlation between the exchange rate and the overall state of the
economy, and I think it's misleading and foolish to use it as an indicator.
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.
And its excesses need to be curbed. It's why, for example, we have a
Competition and Markets Authority responsible for ensuring we don't get
private monopolies, cartels, unfair competition and the like.

Capitalism is not all boundless joy.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-16 11:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.
And its excesses need to be curbed. It's why, for example, we have a
Competition and Markets Authority responsible for ensuring we don't get
private monopolies, cartels, unfair competition and the like.
Indeed - that IS the role of the state to ensure and orderly and competitive market.
Post by Norman Wells
Capitalism is not all boundless joy.
True, but think about the outcomes when socialism has been tried...
pensive hamster
2017-08-16 12:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.
And its excesses need to be curbed. It's why, for example, we have a
Competition and Markets Authority responsible for ensuring we don't get
private monopolies, cartels, unfair competition and the like.
Indeed - that IS the role of the state to ensure and orderly and competitive market.
Post by Norman Wells
Capitalism is not all boundless joy.
True, but think about the outcomes when socialism has been tried...
But there are degrees and different forms of socialism too.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-16 12:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by pensive hamster
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.
And its excesses need to be curbed. It's why, for example, we have a
Competition and Markets Authority responsible for ensuring we don't get
private monopolies, cartels, unfair competition and the like.
Indeed - that IS the role of the state to ensure and orderly and competitive market.
Post by Norman Wells
Capitalism is not all boundless joy.
True, but think about the outcomes when socialism has been tried...
But there are degrees and different forms of socialism too.
Well I suppose you could argue that Sweden has long been socialist and France for a while fairly recently, but the majority are disastrous...
pensive hamster
2017-08-16 12:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by pensive hamster
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
It's a capitalist thing. Get used to it.
And its excesses need to be curbed. It's why, for example, we have a
Competition and Markets Authority responsible for ensuring we don't get
private monopolies, cartels, unfair competition and the like.
Indeed - that IS the role of the state to ensure and orderly and competitive market.
Post by Norman Wells
Capitalism is not all boundless joy.
True, but think about the outcomes when socialism has been tried...
But there are degrees and different forms of socialism too.
Well I suppose you could argue that Sweden has long been socialist and France for a while fairly recently, but the majority are disastrous...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#European

'The United Nations World Happiness Report 2013 shows
that the happiest nations are concentrated in northern Europe,
where the Nordic model of social democracy is employed,
with Denmark topping the list. This is at times attributed to the
success of the Nordic model in the region. The Nordic
countries ranked highest on the metrics of real GDP per capita,
healthy life expectancy, having someone to count on, perceived
freedom to make life choices, generosity and freedom from
corruption.[225]'

R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-13 10:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
So these speculators have enough capital to be able to depress Sterling by 10% on the announcement of the vote and then keep it lower than that for over a year while hundreds of billions of real Fx transactions are carried out?

Q. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?

A. The sort of fantasy world where Brexit is a golden opportunity rather than a catastrophe / calamity [for the UK] and big swings in the exchange rates can be written off as mere speculation, rather than 'big picture' judgement of the market.
Norman Wells
2017-08-13 13:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
So these speculators have enough capital to be able to depress Sterling by 10% on the announcement of the vote
They obviously did.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and then keep it lower than that for over a year while hundreds of billions of real Fx transactions are carried out?
What's a 'real' Fx transaction?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Q. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?
A. The sort of fantasy world where Brexit is a golden opportunity rather than a catastrophe / calamity [for the UK] and big swings in the exchange rates can be written off as mere speculation, rather than 'big picture' judgement of the market.
If you want a 'big picture' judgement of the market, look at the
FTSE-100 which is a much better measure and is close to record highs.
You could also look at the unemployment rate in this country which, at
under 5%, is well below that in, say, Spain (18%), Greece (23%) and
Italy (12%).

Anyone who thinks the exchange rate is a good measure is a complete
fantasist.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-14 13:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40896987
Why indeed? You would think with the dire predictions of Eu and Euro collapse from posters in this group, plus the heady confidence exuded by ministers about trade deals with the rest of the world that if anything the pound should be riding high and the Euro down in the dumps...
You can't fool the market perhaps?
PS I previously asked when will the pound Sterling fall below the Euro? Here is one prediction from the article: -
"The pound is touching 10-month lows against the euro at the moment at 1.0981 euros.
And currency strategists at US investment bank Morgan Stanley are even forecasting that the euro could move "beyond parity" with the pound on the currency markets for the first time ever in early 2018."
You mean 'speculators'. The same speculators who have caused and
orchestrated the current fall in sterling.
Maybe they stand to gain even more if the pound falls further, so that's
the line they push, hoping their prophesy will be self-fulfilling.
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
So these speculators have enough capital to be able to depress Sterling by 10% on the announcement of the vote
They obviously did.
Perhaps for a matter of hours, but over a year?
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and then keep it lower than that for over a year while hundreds of billions of real Fx transactions are carried out?
What's a 'real' Fx transaction?
It's one where someone or some business buys or sells goods in another country and wants to change money to / from the currency in that other country.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Q. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?
A. The sort of fantasy world where Brexit is a golden opportunity rather than a catastrophe / calamity [for the UK] and big swings in the exchange rates can be written off as mere speculation, rather than 'big picture' judgement of the market.
If you want a 'big picture' judgement of the market, look at the
FTSE-100 which is a much better measure and is close to record highs.
You could also look at the unemployment rate in this country which, at
under 5%, is well below that in, say, Spain (18%), Greece (23%) and
Italy (12%).
Anyone who thinks the exchange rate is a good measure is a complete
fantasist.
You think exchange rates are a bad measure, because the sum up the market sentiment about Brexit - i.e. it will be very bad economically and the UK will soon go, sorry already has gone, into relative decline to Europe: -

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-officially-eus-worst-performer/
Norman Wells
2017-08-14 14:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Q. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?
A. The sort of fantasy world where Brexit is a golden opportunity rather than a catastrophe / calamity [for the UK] and big swings in the exchange rates can be written off as mere speculation, rather than 'big picture' judgement of the market.
If you want a 'big picture' judgement of the market, look at the
FTSE-100 which is a much better measure and is close to record highs.
You could also look at the unemployment rate in this country which, at
under 5%, is well below that in, say, Spain (18%), Greece (23%) and
Italy (12%).
Anyone who thinks the exchange rate is a good measure is a complete
fantasist.
You think exchange rates are a bad measure, because the sum up the market sentiment about Brexit - i.e. it will be very bad economically and the UK will soon go, sorry already has gone, into relative decline to Europe: -
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-officially-eus-worst-performer/
So, why is the FTSE at or near an all-time high? And why are our
unemployment figures so much better that, say, Greece, Spain and Italy?

One quarter's growth figures don't amount to a row of beans. It's not
'growth' that matters since that depends on where your baseline is.
It's much easier to have spectacular growth if your economy is small and
particularly if it's emerging from some depression or other. It's not
so easy if your economy is large amd relatively unvolatile like the UK's.

Anyway, the growth figure was still positive at 0.2%. It was only
forecast to be 0.3%, so I don't think that nice Mr Hammond will be
losing too much sleep over it.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-14 14:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-officially-eus-worst-performer/
So, why is the FTSE at or near an all-time high?
Lowest ever interest rates and most FTSE companies have most of their business abroad.
Post by Norman Wells
And why are our
unemployment figures so much better that, say, Greece, Spain and Italy?
Greece's are high because they over borrowed (a la Corbyn and McDonkey). Don't know about Spain or Italy. In France it is because of sky high employment taxes, maximum working week and the near impossibility of dismissing anyone (either for cause or because business is bad).
Post by Norman Wells
One quarter's growth figures don't amount to a row of beans.
True, but it's a half year now.
Post by Norman Wells
It's not
'growth' that matters since that depends on where your baseline is.
It's much easier to have spectacular growth if your economy is small and
particularly if it's emerging from some depression or other. It's not
so easy if your economy is large amd relatively unvolatile like the UK's.
Anyway, the growth figure was still positive at 0.2%. It was only
forecast to be 0.3%, so I don't think that nice Mr Hammond will be
losing too much sleep over it.
Well at present the fluctuation is small (but still negative), but the markets judge that it is likely to get worse.

http://www.cityam.com/268674/business-confidence-sinks-uk-finance-professionals-predict
Norman Wells
2017-08-14 14:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-officially-eus-worst-performer/
So, why is the FTSE at or near an all-time high?
Lowest ever interest rates and most FTSE companies have most of their business abroad.
Economic success stories then.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
And why are our
unemployment figures so much better that, say, Greece, Spain and Italy?
Greece's are high because they over borrowed (a la Corbyn and McDonkey). Don't know about Spain or Italy. In France it is because of sky high employment taxes, maximum working week and the near impossibility of dismissing anyone (either for cause or because business is bad).
Problems that we don't seem to have in our own economy. So, more success.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
One quarter's growth figures don't amount to a row of beans.
True, but it's a half year now.
What is?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
It's not
'growth' that matters since that depends on where your baseline is.
It's much easier to have spectacular growth if your economy is small and
particularly if it's emerging from some depression or other. It's not
so easy if your economy is large amd relatively unvolatile like the UK's.
Anyway, the growth figure was still positive at 0.2%. It was only
forecast to be 0.3%, so I don't think that nice Mr Hammond will be
losing too much sleep over it.
Well at present the fluctuation is small (but still negative), but the markets judge that it is likely to get worse.
What 'fluctuation'? If you mean the difference between the forecast and
the reality, it's because the forecast was wrong. So much then for 'the
markets' ability to see into the future. Can't trust 'em. Treacherous
chaps, markets.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.cityam.com/268674/business-confidence-sinks-uk-finance-professionals-predict
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-14 17:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-officially-eus-worst-performer/
So, why is the FTSE at or near an all-time high?
Lowest ever interest rates and most FTSE companies have most of their business abroad.
Economic success stories then.
First NO, second yes, but NOT in the UK. Many of these firms may decamp after Brexit.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
And why are our
unemployment figures so much better that, say, Greece, Spain and Italy?
Greece's are high because they over borrowed (a la Corbyn and McDonkey). Don't know about Spain or Italy. In France it is because of sky high employment taxes, maximum working week and the near impossibility of dismissing anyone (either for cause or because business is bad).
Problems that we don't seem to have in our own economy. So, more success.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
One quarter's growth figures don't amount to a row of beans.
True, but it's a half year now.
What is?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
It's not
'growth' that matters since that depends on where your baseline is.
It's much easier to have spectacular growth if your economy is small and
particularly if it's emerging from some depression or other. It's not
so easy if your economy is large amd relatively unvolatile like the UK's.
Anyway, the growth figure was still positive at 0.2%. It was only
forecast to be 0.3%, so I don't think that nice Mr Hammond will be
losing too much sleep over it.
Well at present the fluctuation is small (but still negative), but the markets judge that it is likely to get worse.
What 'fluctuation'?
0.2% vs. 0.3% is a small fluctuation between the UK and EU.
Post by Norman Wells
If you mean the difference between the forecast and
the reality, it's because the forecast was wrong. So much then for 'the
markets' ability to see into the future. Can't trust 'em. Treacherous
chaps, markets.
Que?
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
http://www.cityam.com/268674/business-confidence-sinks-uk-finance-professionals-predict
Altroy1
2017-08-13 17:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
You can attach whatever credence you like to speculators. I tend not to
though. They're only ever acting in their own self-interest. Lies and
deceptions are how they roll.
So these speculators have enough capital to be able to depress
Sterling by 10% on the announcement of the vote and then keep it
lower than that for over a year while hundreds of billions of real
Fx transactions are carried out?
Q. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?
A. The sort of fantasy world where Brexit is a golden opportunity
rather than a catastrophe / calamity [for the UK] and big swings
in the exchange rates can be written off as mere speculation,
rather than 'big picture' judgement of the market.
Its heads the Brexiteers win, Tails the remainers lose.

The pound goes up against the "failing" Euro, ......

The result of the strong pound rallying to its true value after the Brexit
vote. The strong pound will cut imports helping protect Brexit jobs.
The strong pound will make foreign trips more cheaper. All the better
for every citizen's two weeks holiday in the sun.
Let's get out of the EU right away.


The pound goes down against the "overpriced" Euro, .....

The work of currency speculators miffed at the Brexit vote.

Sterling was overvalued anyway, the reduced value will result in
badly needed efficiency measures in the local economy making
Brexit businesses stronger than ever. Expensive imports will
boost local manufacturing. Let's get out of the EU right away.
Norman Wells
2017-08-13 16:40:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Altroy1
Its heads the Brexiteers win, Tails the remainers lose.
The pound goes up against the "failing" Euro, ......
The result of the strong pound rallying to its true value after the Brexit
vote. The strong pound will cut imports helping protect Brexit jobs.
The strong pound will make foreign trips more cheaper. All the better
for every citizen's two weeks holiday in the sun.
Let's get out of the EU right away.
You don't have much idea about economics, do you?

A strong pound means that imports are cheaper. That means more will
come in. That is bad for British industry and bad for British jobs, not
good.

And there is no such thing as a 'true value' for any currency.
Post by Altroy1
The pound goes down against the "overpriced" Euro, .....
The work of currency speculators miffed at the Brexit vote.
The work of speculators certainly. What they think of the Brexit vote
is irrelevant and of no concern to them. They are only interested in
making a profit out of 'events', whatever they are.
Post by Altroy1
Sterling was overvalued anyway, the reduced value will result in
badly needed efficiency measures in the local economy making
Brexit businesses stronger than ever. Expensive imports will
boost local manufacturing. Let's get out of the EU right away.
A reduction in the sterling exchange rate is undoubtedly good for
British companies. It makes our exports cheaper and therefore more
competitive.

But the exchange rate has nothing to do with whether or not we should
leave the EU. I've been saying here for some time now that it's utterly
artificial and determined by those who are scarcely house-trained.
Perhaps, though, like the referendum leaflet the government kindly sent
to you, you haven't read it.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-14 13:50:44 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Altroy1
Its heads the Brexiteers win, Tails the remainers lose.
The pound goes up against the "failing" Euro, ......
The result of the strong pound rallying to its true value after the Brexit
vote. The strong pound will cut imports helping protect Brexit jobs.
The strong pound will make foreign trips more cheaper. All the better
for every citizen's two weeks holiday in the sun.
Let's get out of the EU right away.
You don't have much idea about economics, do you?
A strong pound means that imports are cheaper. That means more will
come in. That is bad for British industry and bad for British jobs, not
good.
And there is no such thing as a 'true value' for any currency.
Post by Altroy1
The pound goes down against the "overpriced" Euro, .....
The work of currency speculators miffed at the Brexit vote.
The work of speculators certainly. What they think of the Brexit vote
is irrelevant and of no concern to them. They are only interested in
making a profit out of 'events', whatever they are.
Post by Altroy1
Sterling was overvalued anyway, the reduced value will result in
badly needed efficiency measures in the local economy making
Brexit businesses stronger than ever. Expensive imports will
boost local manufacturing. Let's get out of the EU right away.
A reduction in the sterling exchange rate is undoubtedly good for
British companies. It makes our exports cheaper and therefore more
competitive.
Well some of them, particularly those in the primary sector - e.g. salmon farmers - exports up 70%

Sadly BAD for the British public who have to pay more for their goods and services - e.g. salmon - up 30-40% :-(
Post by Norman Wells
But the exchange rate has nothing to do with whether or not we should
leave the EU. I've been saying here for some time now that it's utterly
artificial and determined by those who are scarcely house-trained.
It is not artificial at all and the rest is just bile against Forex traders who you despise for didd'ing Bwrecksit
Post by Norman Wells
Perhaps, though, like the referendum leaflet the government kindly sent
to you, you haven't read it.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-08-14 13:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Altroy1
Its heads the Brexiteers win, Tails the remainers lose.
The pound goes up against the "failing" Euro, ......
The result of the strong pound rallying to its true value after the Brexit
vote. The strong pound will cut imports helping protect Brexit jobs.
The strong pound will make foreign trips more cheaper. All the better
for every citizen's two weeks holiday in the sun.
Let's get out of the EU right away.
You don't have much idea about economics, do you?
A strong pound means that imports are cheaper. That means more will
come in. That is bad for British industry and bad for British jobs, not
good.
And there is no such thing as a 'true value' for any currency.
Post by Altroy1
The pound goes down against the "overpriced" Euro, .....
The work of currency speculators miffed at the Brexit vote.
The work of speculators certainly. What they think of the Brexit vote
is irrelevant and of no concern to them. They are only interested in
making a profit out of 'events', whatever they are.
Post by Altroy1
Sterling was overvalued anyway, the reduced value will result in
badly needed efficiency measures in the local economy making
Brexit businesses stronger than ever. Expensive imports will
boost local manufacturing. Let's get out of the EU right away.
A reduction in the sterling exchange rate is undoubtedly good for
British companies. It makes our exports cheaper and therefore more
competitive.
Well some of them, particularly those in the primary sector - e.g. salmon farmers - exports up 70%
Sadly BAD for the British public who have to pay more for their goods and services - e.g. salmon - up 30-40% :-(
Post by Norman Wells
But the exchange rate has nothing to do with whether or not we should
leave the EU. I've been saying here for some time now that it's utterly
artificial and determined by those who are scarcely house-trained.
It is not artificial at all and the rest is just bile against Forex traders who you despise for didd'ing Bwrecksit
type - diss'ing Brexit
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Perhaps, though, like the referendum leaflet the government kindly sent
to you, you haven't read it.
Norman Wells
2017-08-14 14:22:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
A reduction in the sterling exchange rate is undoubtedly good for
British companies. It makes our exports cheaper and therefore more
competitive.
Well some of them, particularly those in the primary sector - e.g. salmon farmers - exports up 70%
Sadly BAD for the British public who have to pay more for their goods and services - e.g. salmon - up 30-40% :-(
Problems with supply and demand. We've been through that.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
But the exchange rate has nothing to do with whether or not we should
leave the EU. I've been saying here for some time now that it's utterly
artificial and determined by those who are scarcely house-trained.
It is not artificial at all and the rest is just bile against Forex traders who you despise for didd'ing Bwrecksit
They're charlatans, the lot of them. Wide boys, in it to speculate.

Feel free to trust them if you like, but I won't be joining you.
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