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Stop the Silence
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MM
2017-03-07 11:19:38 UTC
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Are you a Brexiter having doubts now? Watch the video at:
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#

Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!

MM
Freedom
2017-03-07 11:56:18 UTC
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from €U for good !
The Todal
2017-03-07 16:52:40 UTC
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Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
I'm not at all impressed by the video, which is the same simplistic
rhetoric that politicians and spin-doctors always use to manipulate
public opinion. The thinking must be "here's how we get the simpletons
to change course".

You could devise an almost identical video saying "I didn't vote for a
European super- state / more immigration / laws which we are powerless
to overrule in our Parliament".
tim...
2017-03-09 11:38:36 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
I'm not at all impressed by the video, which is the same simplistic
rhetoric that politicians and spin-doctors always use to manipulate public
opinion. The thinking must be "here's how we get the simpletons to change
course".
Yep

I didn't vote for a Labour party to get three consecutive terms, but it's
what I got

It's how democracy works

It doesn't only work if you get YOUR way, it works equally well if you LOSE

tough titties

tim
frederick
2017-03-07 17:09:10 UTC
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I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.

The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country. And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.

Though I don't feel that Government and Theresa May should push for the
hardest of hard brexits. After all, 16,141,241 people voted remain.
Yellow
2017-03-07 17:24:00 UTC
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Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country. And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way it's
heading"?

I am curious.
Post by frederick
Though I don't feel that Government and Theresa May should push for the
hardest of hard brexits. After all, 16,141,241 people voted remain.
There is no "hard Brexit" - that is propaganda talking.
R. Mark Clayton
2017-03-07 17:58:47 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country. And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way it's
heading"?
Have a look at a graph of the £ v. $ since the vote. Down 10% within minutes and a long slide since then. Inflation edging up (will accelerate).

Private investment down ~50% and big US companies like Ford and GM heading towards the exit door...

They are still hedging their bets a bit for the moment, but come a hard Brexit they and many many more like them will be off.
Post by Yellow
I am curious.
Post by frederick
Though I don't feel that Government and Theresa May should push for the
hardest of hard brexits. After all, 16,141,241 people voted remain.
There is no "hard Brexit" - that is propaganda talking.
A "hard" Brexit involves leaving the single market and the customs union. Any non UK only business, especially complex manufacturing, will be encumbered with mountains of paper work (as those who know what it was like before both recall with despair) and heavy tariffs moving goods and components either way. It will also probably encumber the city with FTT dealing the EU, which it had so far managed to avoid, damaging their business.

Of course the brave Brexit believers still think the Brexit tooth fairy will leave piles of gold under the UK's pillow and that the 0.5% of our trade with NZ will easily replace the drop in the 50% with the EU+2
Yellow
2017-03-07 19:00:35 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country. And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way it's
heading"?
Have a look at a graph
Thanks for your interest but I was asking the person who actually made
the assertion where their data came from.
Vidcapper
2017-03-08 07:20:32 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
says...
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and
damaging risk that they would bring to this country. And I feel
they should only have themselves to blame when it all goes tits
up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way
it's heading"?
Have a look at a graph of the £ v. $ since the vote. Down 10% within
minutes and a long slide since then. Inflation edging up (will
accelerate).
Private investment down ~50% and big US companies like Ford and GM
heading towards the exit door...
They are still hedging their bets a bit for the moment, but come a
hard Brexit they and many many more like them will be off.
Yet more speculation.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
pullgees
2017-03-08 08:22:24 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and
damaging risk that they would bring to this country. And I feel
they should only have themselves to blame when it all goes tits
up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way
it's heading"?
Have a look at a graph of the £ v. $ since the vote. Down 10% within
minutes and a long slide since then. Inflation edging up (will
accelerate).
Private investment down ~50% and big US companies like Ford and GM
heading towards the exit door...
They are still hedging their bets a bit for the moment, but come a
hard Brexit they and many many more like them will be off.
Yet more speculation.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Which is what all his posts are.
Ophelia
2017-03-08 09:24:29 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and
damaging risk that they would bring to this country. And I feel
they should only have themselves to blame when it all goes tits
up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way
it's heading"?
Have a look at a graph of the £ v. $ since the vote. Down 10% within
minutes and a long slide since then. Inflation edging up (will
accelerate).
Private investment down ~50% and big US companies like Ford and GM
heading towards the exit door...
They are still hedging their bets a bit for the moment, but come a
hard Brexit they and many many more like them will be off.
Yet more speculation.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Which is what all his posts are.

=================

On the radio this am there were firms saying how well they are doing, much
better even than before the vote. I can't remember all but I do remember AO
logistics.

As for Clayton as least he has stopped his constant bleating about education
education education.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Handsome Jack
2017-03-08 08:51:36 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Yellow
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country. And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.
On what basis are you declaring "when it all goes tits up - the way it's
heading"?
Have a look at a graph of the £ v. $ since the vote. Down 10% within
minutes and a long slide since then. Inflation edging up (will
accelerate).
Private investment down ~50%
Rubbish. Sheer invention.
--
Jack
Vidcapper
2017-03-08 07:18:26 UTC
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Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country.
But that misses the point - we believed the risks of staying in were
even greater.

If you're in a burning building, do you get out ASAP, or wait & hope the
fire is put out before it reaches you?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
frederick
2017-03-08 19:04:34 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country.
But that misses the point - we believed the risks of staying in were
even greater.
But they were not and are not even greater. You just have to look at the
state of the economy to see that.
Vidcapper
2017-03-09 08:09:27 UTC
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Post by frederick
Post by Vidcapper
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country.
But that misses the point - we believed the risks of staying in were
even greater.
But they were not and are not even greater. You just have to look at the
state of the economy to see that.
Whose economy are you actually looking at when making that claim -
certainly not the British one!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
tim...
2017-03-09 11:33:53 UTC
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Post by frederick
Post by Vidcapper
Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country.
But that misses the point - we believed the risks of staying in were
even greater.
But they were not and are not even greater.
IYHO

Other may disagree with you, I don't think you have the casting vote here

tim
MM
2017-03-08 14:14:44 UTC
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Post by frederick
I don't much like the video, and I voted remain.
The people that voted brexit knew full well the stupid and damaging risk
that they would bring to this country.
No! No! No! They knew no such thing. They were convinced that we will
be better off out of the EU. Many who voted Brexit (some were even
interviewed on the street) intimated that even 2nd and 3rd generation
non-white Britons would disappear as well. The thicker the Brexit
voter, the more obvious his or her rabid racism and xenophobia.
Post by frederick
And I feel they should only have
themselves to blame when it all goes tits up - the way it's heading.
They will ~never~ accept any blame. They will blame the EU for not
giving us a good deal. Or they will blame the Tory government and
voted UKIP instead. Or they will blame the majority of this country's
peoples, Scotland, Northern Ireland and London in particular.

When I worked in West Germany, starting in 1969, there were still
many, many Germans who had come through the war, and not an
insignificant number still regretted Hitler's demise.
Post by frederick
Though I don't feel that Government and Theresa May should push for the
hardest of hard brexits. After all, 16,141,241 people voted remain.
And the gap between Remain and Leave is merely 1.2 million, a tiny
Leave majority for such a momentous change. Brexiters believe that of
the people who didn't vote there would have been a far greater
proportion voting to leave than to remain, but they have absolutely no
evidence to base that upon.

MM
pullgees
2017-03-07 18:54:35 UTC
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Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
MM
Dumb is the word. It's doing really well on Youtube with 10 views in two days.
Phil L
2017-03-07 22:18:47 UTC
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Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.

There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every single person in the
country who wanted to leave voted? - by that logic, every single person who
wanted to 'remain' also voted.

And they still lost, because 17 million is a bigger number than 16 million,
do you see how it works now?
harry
2017-03-08 07:04:19 UTC
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Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?

What a load of drivel you come out with!
Vidcapper
2017-03-08 07:13:39 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
It's certainly not the first time he's claimed that non-voters actually
support his pov.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Phil L
2017-03-08 16:26:34 UTC
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Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
Ian Jackson
2017-03-08 17:36:41 UTC
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Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.

OK, the turn-out for the referendum was well above what is normal for a
general election - but the only way to know for certain would be to have
a re-run (something that Brexiteers are shit-scared of allowing).
--
Ian
Yellow
2017-03-08 20:01:00 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.

But it is moot either way. If you do not vote then your opinion is not
counted.
MM
2017-03-09 11:55:17 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.

In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
Post by Yellow
But it is moot either way. If you do not vote then your opinion is not
counted.
But that's not how businesses work. They have to take account of all
potential consumers of their products or services. No business simply
writes off 13 million people because they didn't express an opinion
*on the day*.

Moreover, you appear to enjoy the divisions that have now appeared
across Britain, even between family members, married couples and
employers and employees. Brexiters are like the thug in the pub who
punches someone's lights out, then has to live with the consequences
when the victim unfortunately dies on him. "Oops! Didn't see that
coming! I just wanted to give him a bloody nose!"

A metaphorical bloody nose will come back to Brexiters in a big way
over the coming years.

MM
tim...
2017-03-09 12:39:46 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes

but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people who
didn't vote

you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave voters in
terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those
who did, i.e. for leave.

And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the final
result is the same

tim
Ian Jackson
2017-03-09 13:12:51 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes
but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people
who didn't vote
you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave
voters in terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted *the
same* as those who did, i.e. for leave.
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the
final result is the same
I think you're wrong.

If the present situation is 'A', and people get the opportunity to vote
for 'A' or 'B', those who don't bother to vote are more likely to be
those who are reasonably content with 'A'. It's only those who are
decidedly NOT content with 'A' that are likely to get off their
backsides and vote for 'B' (even if maybe they are not quite sure what
'B' entails).

Or am I totally misinterpreting human nature?
--
Ian
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-03-09 13:24:22 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the
camp
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes
but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people
who didn't vote
you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave
voters in terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted
*the same* as those who did, i.e. for leave.
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the
final result is the same
I think you're wrong.
If the present situation is 'A', and people get the opportunity to vote
for 'A' or 'B', those who don't bother to vote are more likely to be
those who are reasonably content with 'A'. It's only those who are
decidedly NOT content with 'A' that are likely to get off their
backsides and vote for 'B' (even if maybe they are not quite sure what
'B' entails).
I think it's much more complicated. There were plenty of people who
were not content with 'A', but who voted to remain because they hoped to
'change it from within', or were scared by the negative predictions
following a leave vote. Also, given the closeness of the race, and
those scary predictions, I don't expect those who were content would
really not bother to vote. I think you can only conclude that the
people who didn't vote really didn't care either way.
Post by Ian Jackson
Or am I totally misinterpreting human nature?
MM
2017-03-11 11:52:02 UTC
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Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the
camp
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes
but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people
who didn't vote
you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave
voters in terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted
*the same* as those who did, i.e. for leave.
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the
final result is the same
I think you're wrong.
If the present situation is 'A', and people get the opportunity to vote
for 'A' or 'B', those who don't bother to vote are more likely to be
those who are reasonably content with 'A'. It's only those who are
decidedly NOT content with 'A' that are likely to get off their
backsides and vote for 'B' (even if maybe they are not quite sure what
'B' entails).
I think it's much more complicated. There were plenty of people who
were not content with 'A', but who voted to remain because they hoped to
'change it from within', or were scared by the negative predictions
following a leave vote. Also, given the closeness of the race, and
those scary predictions, I don't expect those who were content would
really not bother to vote. I think you can only conclude that the
people who didn't vote really didn't care either way.
But what *I* am suggesting is that there were/are many more who
thought they didn't care either way, but now after 9 months of a
complete shambles (and we haven't even left yet) certainly DO care and
tend towards remaining. The Chancellor's tax on white van persons last
week showed again what lies ahead of us.

MM
Ian Jackson
2017-03-11 12:28:23 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the
camp
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes
but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people
who didn't vote
you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave
voters in terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted
*the same* as those who did, i.e. for leave.
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the
final result is the same
I think you're wrong.
If the present situation is 'A', and people get the opportunity to vote
for 'A' or 'B', those who don't bother to vote are more likely to be
those who are reasonably content with 'A'. It's only those who are
decidedly NOT content with 'A' that are likely to get off their
backsides and vote for 'B' (even if maybe they are not quite sure what
'B' entails).
I think it's much more complicated. There were plenty of people who
were not content with 'A', but who voted to remain because they hoped to
'change it from within', or were scared by the negative predictions
following a leave vote. Also, given the closeness of the race, and
those scary predictions, I don't expect those who were content would
really not bother to vote. I think you can only conclude that the
people who didn't vote really didn't care either way.
But what *I* am suggesting is that there were/are many more who
thought they didn't care either way, but now after 9 months of a
complete shambles (and we haven't even left yet) certainly DO care and
tend towards remaining. The Chancellor's tax on white van persons last
week showed again what lies ahead of us.
Actually, if you had been listening to LBC (the fount of all my
knowledge!) at various times since the budget, you would have heard that
many self-employed could actually be somewhat better off.

I didn't understand the ins and the outs of it, but apparently this is
because they will now be entitled to certain benefits that were
previously denied them. Even presenter James O'Brian (who is himself
self-employed - but certainly not pro Conservative) couldn't see it
being a problem. However, self-employed presenter Iain Dale (who is
pretty right-wing) was absolutely doing his nut about it.
--
Ian
tim...
2017-03-11 12:56:42 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Actually, if you had been listening to LBC (the fount of all my
knowledge!) at various times since the budget, you would have heard that
many self-employed could actually be somewhat better off.
I didn't understand the ins and the outs of it, but apparently this is
because they will now be entitled to certain benefits that were previously
denied them. Even presenter James O'Brian (who is himself self-employed -
but certainly not pro Conservative) couldn't see it being a problem.
I'm inclined to agree that this is a fuss about absolutely nothing except
whether election pledges can be trusted

but I suspect that the smarter amongst us already knew the answer to that

tim
Handsome Jack
2017-03-11 18:44:19 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Actually, if you had been listening to LBC (the fount of all my
knowledge!) at various times since the budget, you would have heard
that many self-employed could actually be somewhat better off.
You'll be better off if your income is below the Class 4 contributions
threshold, but only because they are also abolishing Class 2 (flat fee)
contributions. But they were already doing that anyway, so the Budget
announcement has got nothing to do with it.
Post by Ian Jackson
I didn't understand the ins and the outs of it, but apparently this is
because they will now be entitled to certain benefits that were
previously denied them.
No it is not, that is a lie being promoted by the government to try and
get them out of this hole. Self employed people are not getting any
extra benefits. I've even heard government spokespeople (or journalists
quoting them) saying that the self employed will now get state pension
when they didn't before. Lies. They did.
Post by Ian Jackson
Even presenter James O'Brian (who is himself self-employed - but
certainly not pro Conservative) couldn't see it being a problem.
It's the same sort of problem as any other tax rise. You just have to
swallow it.

What is not acceptable is that the election manifesto explicitly
promised not to do it. Some people will have voted Conservative on that
promise, and now they have gone back on it. It is simply another
destruction of what trust there was in politicians. We knew Labour and
the Liberals broke their manifesto promises, now we know the Tories do
too.
--
Jack
Ian Jackson
2017-03-11 19:49:32 UTC
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We knew Labour and the Liberals broke their manifesto promises, now we
know the Tories do too.
You mean you've only just realised?
--
Ian
Snow_Flower
2017-03-11 12:59:02 UTC
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Post by MM
But what *I* am suggesting is that there were/are many more who
thought they didn't care either way, but now after 9 months of a
complete shambles (and we haven't even left yet) certainly DO care and
tend towards remaining. The Chancellor's tax on white van persons last
week showed again what lies ahead of us.
MM
For what little it is worth, I was very unsure how to vote in the
referendum and ended up voting remain (being unsure = stay with the known).

But much more information has come out in the last 9 months, and there
is much that I have learned about the EU, and if there was a second
referendum, I would now vote leave.

Essentially the EU has weaponised free trade, to use its loss as a means
to black mail states into being un-democratic.
If the EU offered mutual free trade, there would be no problem. But the
EU will not offer this, for the reasons I stated above.
A relationship based on fear, extortion and black mail, is not desirable.

A one percent rise in NICs from 9% to 10%
Compare that with employed, who pay NICs at the rate of 25.8%
If that is an indication of what lies ahead, bring it on!!!

And given how white van man drives, the accidents they cause, resulting
in NHS spend, they should pay at least 25%.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Ophelia
2017-03-11 14:28:19 UTC
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Post by MM
But what *I* am suggesting is that there were/are many more who
thought they didn't care either way, but now after 9 months of a
complete shambles (and we haven't even left yet) certainly DO care and
tend towards remaining. The Chancellor's tax on white van persons last
week showed again what lies ahead of us.
MM
For what little it is worth, I was very unsure how to vote in the
referendum and ended up voting remain (being unsure = stay with the known).

But much more information has come out in the last 9 months, and there
is much that I have learned about the EU, and if there was a second
referendum, I would now vote leave.

Essentially the EU has weaponised free trade, to use its loss as a means
to black mail states into being un-democratic.
If the EU offered mutual free trade, there would be no problem. But the
EU will not offer this, for the reasons I stated above.
A relationship based on fear, extortion and black mail, is not desirable.

A one percent rise in NICs from 9% to 10%
Compare that with employed, who pay NICs at the rate of 25.8%
If that is an indication of what lies ahead, bring it on!!!

And given how white van man drives, the accidents they cause, resulting
in NHS spend, they should pay at least 25%.

===

Well said and thank you for sharing.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
MM
2017-03-11 11:48:41 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:12:51 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by tim...
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the
final result is the same
I think you're wrong.
If the present situation is 'A', and people get the opportunity to vote
for 'A' or 'B', those who don't bother to vote are more likely to be
those who are reasonably content with 'A'. It's only those who are
decidedly NOT content with 'A' that are likely to get off their
backsides and vote for 'B' (even if maybe they are not quite sure what
'B' entails).
Or am I totally misinterpreting human nature?
No, you're spot on. That's exactly how crowds behave. People who kick
against the pricks have to kick harder than those who are content to
receive an occasional jab, given all the other benefits, like hay and
straw.

MM
MM
2017-03-11 11:46:25 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
You cannot assume that people who can not be bothered to vote have any
particular opinion.
Yes, you can. Businesses and other organisations do this all the time.
It's called extrapolation.
In the referendum it is more likely than not that eligible voters (who
didn't vote) who matched actual remain voters in terms of education,
age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those who did, i.e.
for remain.
yes
Good, you agree.
Post by tim...
but you are saying that like it represents the compete set of people who
didn't vote
Nope. I said elsewhere that it would involved around 60% of the
complete set of people who didn't vote.

That's 60% of 13 million for Remain and 20% for Brexit.
Post by tim...
you forget that there is a set of people who matched actual leave voters in
terms of education, age, area in the UK would have voted *the same* as those
who did, i.e. for leave.
And you believe that set is greater than the set who would mtach
actual remain voters? If you do, you are acknowledging that not every
true Brexiter could be bothered to vote, despite having campaigned or
argued for upwards of 25 years to leave the EU.
Post by tim...
And the likelihood is that both sets cancel each other out and the the final
result is the same
They wouldn't cancel each other out. The only way that could happen is
if the 13 million were evenly split down the middle, which is so
unlikely as to be disregarded as a possibility.

After all, everyone is constantly up in arms about the high vote
numbers of UKIP compared to the number of seats it has in Parliament.
That is, they are up in arms about the 3,881,099 UKIP votes at the
last election.

Now, my point is, if there was allegedly so much massive *silent*
support for UKIP, i.e. Brexit (because that's what UKIP is there for),
why did ONLY 3,881,099 people vote for UKIP in the last election?
That's just 12.7% of the electorate!

If alleged UKIP supporters cannot come out and vote in a general
election, why would they represent a bigger share of the 13 million
silent voters in the referendum?

No, the truth is, Brexiters didn't win the referendum, Remainers lost
it through utter complacency, believing as Cameron did that there was
no way that Leave could win.

MM
Yellow
2017-03-11 13:02:17 UTC
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Post by MM
No, the truth is, Brexiters didn't win the referendum, Remainers lost
it through utter complacency, believing as Cameron did that there was
no way that Leave could win.
Come up with whatever mumbo-jumbo helps you to sleep at night - we are
still leaving the EU. :-p
harry
2017-03-09 08:23:09 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Phil L
Post by harry
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
If they were non voters, how do you know what their views were?
What a load of drivel you come out with!
How does anyone know what the other half's views were? - 17m voters voted
leave and less voted remain, the other 13m didn't give a shit either way but
if pushed it's logical to assume that similar percentages would have been
repeated
I think that it's more likely that a lot of non-voters didn't bother to
vote because they were passively content to continue with the status
quo.
OK, the turn-out for the referendum was well above what is normal for a
general election - but the only way to know for certain would be to have
a re-run (something that Brexiteers are shit-scared of allowing).
Drivel.
How would a "re-run" help.

Standard EUSSR tactics.
Keep having referendii until you get the answer you want.
Vidcapper
2017-03-09 08:58:14 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
OK, the turn-out for the referendum was well above what is normal for a
general election - but the only way to know for certain would be to have
a re-run (something that Brexiteers are shit-scared of allowing).
Speak for yourself - I would be delighted if there were a re-run tomorrow!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Ian Jackson
2017-03-09 09:20:14 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by Ian Jackson
OK, the turn-out for the referendum was well above what is normal for a
general election - but the only way to know for certain would be to have
a re-run (something that Brexiteers are shit-scared of allowing).
Speak for yourself - I would be delighted if there were a re-run tomorrow!
My respect for you has risen to great heights!

You're the only Brexiteer I've heard who is in any way prepared to
countenance having a re-run. All the others are quite adamant that 'the
people have spoken' - and can't be allowed to speak again.
--
Ian
tim...
2017-03-09 12:17:32 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Post by Ian Jackson
OK, the turn-out for the referendum was well above what is normal for a
general election - but the only way to know for certain would be to have
a re-run (something that Brexiteers are shit-scared of allowing).
Speak for yourself - I would be delighted if there were a re-run tomorrow!
My respect for you has risen to great heights!
You're the only Brexiteer I've heard who is in any way prepared to
countenance having a re-run.
I've said so as well
Post by Ian Jackson
All the others are quite adamant that 'the people have spoken' - and can't
be allowed to speak again.
On exactly the same question

but not on some different question, deliberately designed to split the
Leavers, which is what the Remaoners are asking for

tim
MM
2017-03-08 14:34:58 UTC
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Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every single person in the
country who wanted to leave voted? - by that logic, every single person who
wanted to 'remain' also voted.
No, I am suggesting that ALL Brexit-minded voters *did* go and vote,
so the proportion in non-voters of those who would have voted Brexit
was far smaller than for Remain.

Remain's problem was largely complacency. Not even the Leave camp, not
even Nigel Farage, thought Leave would win, and Remainers definitely
didn't think Leave would win, so as far as many Remainers were
concerned, it was a waste of time to go and vote.

Big mistake.

There were approximately 13 million who didn't vote, but were eligible
to vote. I would put the figure for would-be Leavers at around 20% and
the figure for Remain at around 60%, with the rest marked down as
don't knows.

Therefore, if ALL Remainers had actually voted, Remain would have
secured an overwhelming majority. Thus, Remain would have received 7.8
million extra votes and Leave an extra 2.6 million. The gap then would
be a large one in favour of Remain.

You can adjust the 20% and 60% estimates if you want, but the number
of would-be Remainers would always be larger, because Leavers had been
trying for 25 or more years to secure a referendum, and therefore the
likelihood that they would not have voted given, finally, the chance
to do so, is very small.

Remainers on the other hand just didn't believe they needed to be
concerned about the referendum, thinking, like Cameron, that it would
be a slam dunk for staying in.

MM
Vidcapper
2017-03-08 15:19:51 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every single person in the
country who wanted to leave voted? - by that logic, every single person who
wanted to 'remain' also voted.
No, I am suggesting that ALL Brexit-minded voters *did* go and vote,
so the proportion in non-voters of those who would have voted Brexit
was far smaller than for Remain.
Remain's problem was largely complacency. Not even the Leave camp, not
even Nigel Farage, thought Leave would win, and Remainers definitely
didn't think Leave would win, so as far as many Remainers were
concerned, it was a waste of time to go and vote.
So your basis for wanting Brexit blocked is 'what might have happened
had Remain-inclined non-voters had not been complacent'??

The obvious counter-argument is that there might have been Leave
supporters amongst non-voters who didn't go to the polls because they
didn't believe Leave could win.

That is certainly as valid a speculation as yours.
Post by MM
Big mistake.
There were approximately 13 million who didn't vote, but were eligible
to vote. I would put the figure for would-be Leavers at around 20% and
the figure for Remain at around 60%, with the rest marked down as
don't knows.
On what do you base those percentages?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Phil L
2017-03-08 16:23:09 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 22:18:47 -0000, "Phil L"
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the
camp and yet 'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every
single person in the country who wanted to leave voted? - by that
logic, every single person who wanted to 'remain' also voted.
No, I am suggesting that ALL Brexit-minded voters *did* go and vote,
so the proportion in non-voters of those who would have voted Brexit
was far smaller than for Remain.
Remain's problem was largely complacency. Not even the Leave camp,
not even Nigel Farage, thought Leave would win, and Remainers
definitely didn't think Leave would win, so as far as many Remainers
were concerned, it was a waste of time to go and vote.
So your basis for wanting Brexit blocked is 'what might have happened
had Remain-inclined non-voters had not been complacent'??
The obvious counter-argument is that there might have been Leave
supporters amongst non-voters who didn't go to the polls because they
didn't believe Leave could win.
That is certainly as valid a speculation as yours.
Big mistake.
There were approximately 13 million who didn't vote, but were
eligible to vote. I would put the figure for would-be Leavers at
around 20% and the figure for Remain at around 60%, with the rest
marked down as don't knows.
On what do you base those percentages?
A day dream he had probably. He claims to know what half the country thought
and then estimates all the figures surrounding this assumption.
MM
2017-03-09 12:01:17 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every single person in the
country who wanted to leave voted? - by that logic, every single person who
wanted to 'remain' also voted.
No, I am suggesting that ALL Brexit-minded voters *did* go and vote,
so the proportion in non-voters of those who would have voted Brexit
was far smaller than for Remain.
Remain's problem was largely complacency. Not even the Leave camp, not
even Nigel Farage, thought Leave would win, and Remainers definitely
didn't think Leave would win, so as far as many Remainers were
concerned, it was a waste of time to go and vote.
So your basis for wanting Brexit blocked is 'what might have happened
had Remain-inclined non-voters had not been complacent'??
The obvious counter-argument is that there might have been Leave
supporters amongst non-voters who didn't go to the polls because they
didn't believe Leave could win.
That is certainly as valid a speculation as yours.
Indeed. But it was the people who wanted to leave who had to make more
of an effort to get out and vote. They had, after all, been wishing
for this chance and now they finally got it. They were even saying --
Nigel Farage, for example -- right up to referendum night that they
had lost.

The majority is 1.2 million. I wonder what majority you'd have been
comfortable with? Suppose it had been not 1.2 million, but 750
thousand? Or maybe only 200,000? Or only 10,000?

Nigel Farage certainly would not have accepted it if it were the other
way round. He said as much in various interviews that it would be
unfinished business if Remain had won by the same margin of 52% to
48%.

MM
Vidcapper
2017-03-09 15:46:30 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
So your basis for wanting Brexit blocked is 'what might have happened
had Remain-inclined non-voters had not been complacent'??
The obvious counter-argument is that there might have been Leave
supporters amongst non-voters who didn't go to the polls because they
didn't believe Leave could win.
That is certainly as valid a speculation as yours.
Indeed. But it was the people who wanted to leave who had to make more
of an effort to get out and vote. They had, after all, been wishing
for this chance and now they finally got it. They were even saying --
Nigel Farage, for example -- right up to referendum night that they
had lost.
The majority is 1.2 million. I wonder what majority you'd have been
comfortable with? Suppose it had been not 1.2 million, but 750
thousand? Or maybe only 200,000? Or only 10,000?
Nigel Farage certainly would not have accepted it if it were the other
way round. He said as much in various interviews that it would be
unfinished business if Remain had won by the same margin of 52% to
48%.
What what would he have done in response to a close remain victory?

Presumably continue campaigning as his party had been doing for years in
order to change public opinion - rather than trying to get the courts
involved as Remoaners have.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
MM
2017-03-11 11:53:53 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Presumably continue campaigning as his party had been doing for years in
order to change public opinion - rather than trying to get the courts
involved as Remoaners have.
The courts have played a significant role in changing public opinion,
once the ins and outs of the privileged, undemocratic Royal
Prerogative came to light.

MM
Vidcapper
2017-03-11 15:07:49 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Presumably continue campaigning as his party had been doing for years in
order to change public opinion - rather than trying to get the courts
involved as Remoaners have.
The courts have played a significant role in changing public opinion,
once the ins and outs of the privileged, undemocratic Royal
Prerogative came to light.
It didn't 'come to light', as it was hardly a secret before.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
The Todal
2017-03-11 18:12:57 UTC
Reply
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Presumably continue campaigning as his party had been doing for years in
order to change public opinion - rather than trying to get the courts
involved as Remoaners have.
The courts have played a significant role in changing public opinion,
once the ins and outs of the privileged, undemocratic Royal
Prerogative came to light.
It didn't 'come to light', as it was hardly a secret before.
No, what "came to light" was that massive cutbacks in public expenditure
meant that Theresa May was getting rubbish advice from second rate
lawyers in the Government's legal department.
tim...
2017-03-12 09:25:04 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Presumably continue campaigning as his party had been doing for years in
order to change public opinion - rather than trying to get the courts
involved as Remoaners have.
The courts have played a significant role in changing public opinion,
once the ins and outs of the privileged, undemocratic Royal
Prerogative came to light.
It didn't 'come to light', as it was hardly a secret before.
No, what "came to light" was that massive cutbacks in public expenditure
meant that Theresa May was getting rubbish advice from second rate lawyers
in the Government's legal department.
I'm inclined to think that the brightest legal minds (generally) not wanting
to work for HMG has nothing to do with cutbacks

tim
harry
2017-03-08 16:50:44 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by Phil L
Post by MM
There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority
That statement can't possibly be true.
There were an equal amount of non voters from both sides of the camp and yet
'leave' won...unless you are suggesting that every single person in the
country who wanted to leave voted? - by that logic, every single person who
wanted to 'remain' also voted.
No, I am suggesting that ALL Brexit-minded voters *did* go and vote,
so the proportion in non-voters of those who would have voted Brexit
was far smaller than for Remain.
Remain's problem was largely complacency. Not even the Leave camp, not
even Nigel Farage, thought Leave would win, and Remainers definitely
didn't think Leave would win, so as far as many Remainers were
concerned, it was a waste of time to go and vote.
Big mistake.
There were approximately 13 million who didn't vote, but were eligible
to vote. I would put the figure for would-be Leavers at around 20% and
the figure for Remain at around 60%, with the rest marked down as
don't knows.
Therefore, if ALL Remainers had actually voted, Remain would have
secured an overwhelming majority. Thus, Remain would have received 7.8
million extra votes and Leave an extra 2.6 million. The gap then would
be a large one in favour of Remain.
You can adjust the 20% and 60% estimates if you want, but the number
of would-be Remainers would always be larger, because Leavers had been
trying for 25 or more years to secure a referendum, and therefore the
likelihood that they would not have voted given, finally, the chance
to do so, is very small.
Remainers on the other hand just didn't believe they needed to be
concerned about the referendum, thinking, like Cameron, that it would
be a slam dunk for staying in.
There are consequences for sitting on your arse.
Omega
2017-03-08 17:01:06 UTC
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"MM" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Are you a Brexiter having doubts now? Watch the video at:
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#

Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!

MM

---------------------------------------


How positive, to see your sense of ridiculousness has returned.

Welcome back MM and do continue to keep us all entertained.

omega

----------------------------------------
Vidcapper
2017-03-09 08:11:45 UTC
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Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
Stop the silence?

What silence?! You and you fellow remoaners have done nothing but bitch
about it 24/7 for the last 9 months!!!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
pullgees
2017-03-09 08:35:55 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
Stop the silence?
What silence?! You and you fellow remoaners have done nothing but bitch
about it 24/7 for the last 9 months!!!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Which makes the video blatant propaganda, one wonders of the IQ level this is aimed at. No wonder MM praises it.
Ian Jackson
2017-03-09 09:22:23 UTC
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Post by pullgees
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
Stop the silence?
What silence?! You and you fellow remoaners have done nothing but bitch
about it 24/7 for the last 9 months!!!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Which makes the video blatant propaganda, one wonders of the IQ level
this is aimed at. No wonder MM praises it.
Even though I'm a staunch remainer, it's a pretty crap video.
--
Ian
MM
2017-03-09 12:02:54 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 09:22:23 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by pullgees
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Remainers can watch as well, of course, and hopefully they will try
even harder to stop Brexit. There are only 17 millions Brexiters, so
they are very significantly in the minority of the whole nation. They
are the tail wagging the dog. I say, let's DOCK that tail!
Stop the silence?
What silence?! You and you fellow remoaners have done nothing but bitch
about it 24/7 for the last 9 months!!!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Which makes the video blatant propaganda, one wonders of the IQ level
this is aimed at. No wonder MM praises it.
Even though I'm a staunch remainer, it's a pretty crap video.
Well, any good videos positive for Remain are thin on the ground,
aren't they?

MM
pullgees
2017-03-09 08:44:09 UTC
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Post by MM
http://www.stopthesilence.co.uk/#
Comments have been disabled on youtube, no need to wonder why, it was highly pilloried. Where was the silent "majority".
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