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Pound in trouble [again]
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R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-17 16:19:56 UTC
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https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2

possibly because a government minister said this: -

Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.

Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers

No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
JNugent
2018-08-17 16:22:06 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-17 16:53:38 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?

Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even earlier than Brexit.
JNugent
2018-08-17 21:37:23 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
too low and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
safeguard the pound.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even earlier than Brexit.
Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.

First rule of economics, Spike.
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-18 11:38:01 UTC
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"JNugent" <***@mail.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
: On 17/08/2018 17:53, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
: > On Friday, 17 August 2018 17:22:06 UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
: >> On 17/08/2018 17:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
:
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
:
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
:
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
:
: First rule of economics, Spike.
abelard
2018-08-18 11:47:03 UTC
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:38:01 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low
'too low' for what objective?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
: First rule of economics, Spike.
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-18 11:58:06 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:38:01 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low
'too low' for what objective?
Too low for keeping the all-0important housing market in order, for a start.

And too low for keeping exchange rates stable (at about 2:1 against the
$ and 1.5:1 against the Euro).
Post by abelard
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
: First rule of economics, Spike.
abelard
2018-08-18 12:06:11 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:38:01 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low
'too low' for what objective?
Too low for keeping the all-0important housing market in order, for a start.
only building more houses or stopping the mass immigration will
deal with that
not playing with money

of course agent cob may contemplate nationalising the housing stock!
Post by JNugent
And too low for keeping exchange rates stable (at about 2:1 against the
$ and 1.5:1 against the Euro).
once it was 5 to the dollar...once it was close to 1:1

present aim is to keep prices 'stable' not exchange rates
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
: First rule of economics, Spike.
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-18 13:09:37 UTC
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Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:38:01 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low
'too low' for what objective?
Too low for keeping the all-0important housing market in order, for a start.
only building more houses or stopping the mass immigration will
deal with that
not playing with money
Reducing demand by establishing a return to realistic interest rates and
interest charges on mortgages will help a lot.
Post by abelard
of course agent cob may contemplate nationalising the housing stock!
Post by JNugent
And too low for keeping exchange rates stable (at about 2:1 against the
$ and 1.5:1 against the Euro).
once it was 5 to the dollar...once it was close to 1:1
2:1 is manageable for containing inflation, especially of the price of
oil, which is unstable in the UK even when internationally stable in
dollar terms.
Post by abelard
present aim is to keep prices 'stable' not exchange rates
You can't do that by increasing the sterling prices of imports.
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
: First rule of economics, Spike.
abelard
2018-08-18 13:42:45 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:38:01 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >>>
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >>>
: >>> possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >>>
: >>> Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >>>
: >>> Source: -
: >>>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >>>
: >>> No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: >>
: >> Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to.
The
: >> governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: >> with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: >> international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: >> dollar and the euro.
: >
: > All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?
: It doesn't matter. The bank rate (now known as minimum lending rate) is
: too low
'too low' for what objective?
Too low for keeping the all-0important housing market in order, for a start.
only building more houses or stopping the mass immigration will
deal with that
not playing with money
Reducing demand by establishing a return to realistic interest rates and
interest charges on mortgages will help a lot.
the world money market are swimming in homeless money
looking for profit...britain is very attractive

you can't raise prices when there is over-supply....there
is plentiful money supply...it isn't just about sterling
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
of course agent cob may contemplate nationalising the housing stock!
Post by JNugent
And too low for keeping exchange rates stable (at about 2:1 against the
$ and 1.5:1 against the Euro).
once it was 5 to the dollar...once it was close to 1:1
2:1 is manageable for containing inflation, especially of the price of
oil, which is unstable in the UK even when internationally stable in
dollar terms.
i'm not entirely sure of your meanings...oil is also plentiful...my
impression is there are great efforts by the cartel to support
prices by supply control...

britain can lower their vulnerability...if they wish...by fracking
or moving to alternative fuels(eg nuclear)

prices are controlled by supply and demand...money and oil
are not really special cases nowadays
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
present aim is to keep prices 'stable' not exchange rates
You can't do that by increasing the sterling prices of imports.
what do you wish to import that you cannot?

the price of any imports is subject to supply and demand just like
anything else

i don't understand your concentration on the 'price' of imports...
you can buy (almost) any import you wish if you have the price
so can anyone...

you concentration on interest rates and money is confusing me :-)
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the Treasury needs to take the bull by the horns, doing away
: with the non-0need for the MPC, who clearly cannot be trusted to
: safeguard the pound.
: > Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even
earlier than Brexit.
: Keep interest rates normal (or better) and the pound will not fall.
: First rule of economics, Spike.
--
www.abelard.org
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-18 11:37:40 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
All 'yes men [and woman]' on the MPC?

Any rise would be short lived as the UK would suffer recession even earlier
than Brexit.
Ophelia
2018-08-17 20:27:11 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.

==

Hunt has gone back on that anyway. Today he said he meant that the EU would
regret it for a generation ...

You couldn't make it up if you wanted to <g>
JNugent
2018-08-17 21:35:14 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
==
Hunt has gone back on that anyway.  Today he said he meant that the EU
would regret it for a generation ...
You couldn't make it up if you wanted to <g>
Someone has (see the posts above).

JH did not say what he was quoted as saying.
Ophelia
2018-08-18 12:57:17 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
==
Hunt has gone back on that anyway. Today he said he meant that the EU
would regret it for a generation ...
You couldn't make it up if you wanted to <g>
Someone has (see the posts above).

JH did not say what he was quoted as saying.

==

Ahh "... Inevitably that will change British attitudes to Europe.".

That is rather different to what has been reported!
MM
2018-08-18 07:33:37 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.

I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)

MM
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 08:24:38 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed determine,
exchange rates, just read up about George Soros, for example here:

https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 10:48:09 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed determine,
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/
Of course speculators affect exchange rates. In the case of Soros it was because the BoE was attempting to maintain an artificially high exchange rate for the pound. Soros essentially gambled that the BoE would not be able to maintain this in the long term and he was right.

What speculators have little efect on is the long term rates. For Sterling this has been since ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 when the result of the referendum became clear.

The vast majority of spot and most futures trades are either genuine conversions or businesses securing future Fx rates for their sales or supplies.

Nothing the BoE nor especially the Brexiteers can do can convince the market that this improves the economic prospects of the UK, on the contrary the almost universal reasoned view is that it will be very bad and moreover the harder the Brexit the worse the damage - so the pound remains well down against its pre-referendum position despite small bits of silver lining like good employment figures.
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 11:20:10 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed determine,
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/
Of course speculators affect exchange rates. In the case of Soros it was because the BoE was attempting to maintain an artificially high exchange rate for the pound. Soros essentially gambled that the BoE would not be able to maintain this in the long term and he was right.
What speculators have little efect on is the long term rates.
Er, no. At the beginning of September 1992, before Black Wednesday
caused by Soros, a pound was worth about 2 dollars. By the end of the
year it was about 1.50 dollars, ie a devaluation of 25%. It was not to
be at 2 dollars again until 15 years later.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
For Sterling this has been since ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 when the result of the referendum became clear.
The vast majority of spot and most futures trades are either genuine conversions or businesses securing future Fx rates for their sales or supplies.
No, they're tiny in comparison with the amoutns speculators trade.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Nothing the BoE nor especially the Brexiteers can do can convince the market that this improves the economic prospects of the UK,
That would be why the FTSE-100 is currently at 7559, very near its
all-time high then. That's a bit more reliable an indicator of how 'the
market' regards the economic prospects of the UK, mainly because it is
actually a market.
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-18 11:39:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed determine,
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/
Of course speculators affect exchange rates. In the case of Soros it was
because the BoE was attempting to maintain an artificially high exchange
rate for the pound. Soros essentially gambled that the BoE would not be
able to maintain this in the long term and he was right.

What speculators have little efect on is the long term rates. For Sterling
this has been since ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 when the result of the referendum
became clear.

The vast majority of spot and most futures trades are either genuine
conversions or businesses securing future Fx rates for their sales or
supplies.

Nothing the BoE nor especially the Brexiteers can do can convince the market
that this improves the economic prospects of the UK, on the contrary the
almost universal reasoned view is that it will be very bad and moreover the
harder the Brexit the worse the damage - so the pound remains well down
against its pre-referendum position despite small bits of silver lining like
good employment figures.
abelard
2018-08-18 11:49:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:39:16 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed determine,
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/
Of course speculators affect exchange rates. In the case of Soros it was
because the BoE was attempting to maintain an artificially high exchange
rate for the pound. Soros essentially gambled that the BoE would not be
able to maintain this in the long term and he was right.
so did many banks...who were more powerful than soros
Post by R. Mark Clayton
What speculators have little efect on is the long term rates. For Sterling
this has been since ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 when the result of the referendum
became clear.
The vast majority of spot and most futures trades are either genuine
conversions or businesses securing future Fx rates for their sales or
supplies.
Nothing the BoE nor especially the Brexiteers can do can convince the market
that this improves the economic prospects of the UK, on the contrary the
almost universal reasoned view is that it will be very bad and moreover the
harder the Brexit the worse the damage - so the pound remains well down
against its pre-referendum position despite small bits of silver lining like
good employment figures.
if the herd believes nonsense the market will bet on nonsense
--
www.abelard.org
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 13:03:28 UTC
Reply
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Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:39:16 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
SNIP
Post by abelard
if the herd believes nonsense the market will bet on nonsense
Speculators might, real businesses (the great majority of the long term market) are trading real cash for genuine reasons.
Post by abelard
--
www.abelard.org
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 16:14:21 UTC
Reply
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by abelard
if the herd believes nonsense the market will bet on nonsense
Speculators might, real businesses (the great majority of the long term market) are trading real cash for genuine reasons.
You think then that it was 'real businesses ... trading real cash for
genuine reasons' all getting on line and doing their deals in the ten
minutes after the Brexit referendum result that made the pound suddenly
decline against the Euro?

Or was it, as seems rather more likely, speculators gambling with huge
sums on the currency exchanges in the hope of making a fast buck?

I know what I think. I'm just wondering why you don't.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-20 17:48:33 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by abelard
if the herd believes nonsense the market will bet on nonsense
Speculators might, real businesses (the great majority of the long term market) are trading real cash for genuine reasons.
You think then that it was 'real businesses ... trading real cash for
genuine reasons' all getting on line and doing their deals in the ten
minutes after the Brexit referendum result that made the pound suddenly
decline against the Euro?
Of course not - the market makers / players (speculators as you call them) set the very short term rates.

They didn't drop the price of the pound enough, because (also as I predicted) if Leave won Cameron would quit), which caused another sudden big drop.

Obviously if the 'speculators' had called it wrong (as they did on Trump's election in the USA in that real demand rebounded the dollar quite quickly - long term is a different matter) then they would have lost money.

Oddly enough in the 830 days since the vote the pound has not recovered and is still trading below the level it fell to on the night.
Post by Norman Wells
Or was it, as seems rather more likely, speculators gambling with huge
sums on the currency exchanges in the hope of making a fast buck?
Soros did this when the BoE was unsustainably supporting the pound in the ERM - that clearly does not apply here - speculation is very short term - the pounds Leavel losses are long term and ongoing, and every time the prospect of a hard Brexit looks more likely, it suffers more. This isn't Remainers betting against it (it would hundreds of times more cost effective to bankroll political campaigns like Alan Banks) but hard headed businessmen and women making decisions about their long term strategy.
Post by Norman Wells
I know what I think. I'm just wondering why you don't.
Pamela
2018-08-18 16:43:24 UTC
Reply
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-
worst-w
eekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generationsâ
€.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-H
unt-UK-
EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't
have to. T
he
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and
do away with the Carney experiment which is proving so
disastrous for the international value of sterling. Then, the
pound would rise against th
e
Post by Norman Wells
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise
in value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is
now secretly planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not
cause too much upset.)
If you think speculators can't and don't affect, and indeed
determine, exchange rates, just read up about George Soros, for
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soro
s-broke/
Of course speculators affect exchange rates. In the case of Soros
it was because the BoE was attempting to maintain an artificially
high exchange rate for the pound.
As I recall, UK inflation was 3 times that of Germany which was also
in the ERM and this was stressing us. The UK raised interest rates
from 10 to 15 percent to attract investment. Soros was sceptical
and gambled the UK would fail. He profited from the situation but
did not cause it.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Soros essentially gambled that the BoE would not be able to
maintain this in the long term and he was right.
What speculators have little efect on is the long term rates. For
Sterling this has been since ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 when the result
of the referendum became clear.
The vast majority of spot and most futures trades are either
genuine conversions or businesses securing future Fx rates for
their sales or supplies.
Nothing the BoE nor especially the Brexiteers can do can convince
the market that this improves the economic prospects of the UK, on
the contrary the almost universal reasoned view is that it will be
very bad and moreover the harder the Brexit the worse the damage -
so the pound remains well down against its pre-referendum position
What a mess. Brexit has much to answer for and it is set to get worse.
JNugent
2018-08-18 09:47:11 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
Post by MM
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008 and that's
because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy. Nothing to do with
referendum results.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 10:53:05 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
Post by MM
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008 and that's
because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy. Nothing to do with
referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.

You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
JNugent
2018-08-18 11:54:59 UTC
Reply
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
Post by MM
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise in
value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is now secretly
planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not cause too much
upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008 and that's
because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy. Nothing to do with
referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.

If only it could be.

All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or USA-based
coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment. And that will
have effects.

Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe things
will change (slightly) for the better.

In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 13:13:43 UTC
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SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
It was an immediate and persistent result of the Leave vote.
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
Post by JNugent
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or USA-based
coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment. And that will
have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe things
will change (slightly) for the better.
This isn't the result of some social media campaign to boycott Starbuck because they were rude to a gay staffer, it isn't even the result of a campaign - it is just hard headed business people deciding how best to keep their money.
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans. Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.

Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
JNugent
2018-08-18 19:56:44 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
It was an immediate and persistent result of the Leave vote.
Don't be stupid.

Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or USA-based
coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment. And that will
have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe things
will change (slightly) for the better.
This isn't the result of some social media campaign to boycott Starbuck because they were rude to a gay staffer, it isn't even the result of a campaign - it is just hard headed business people deciding how best to keep their money.
I agree that it isn't just social media.

It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.

Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?

If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?

Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Ian Jackson
2018-08-19 07:56:20 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Immediately the referendum result was announced, it looked like Project
Fear was starting to be fulfilled. Fortunately, after the initial shock,
the financial world appeared to recognise that we hadn't left, and that
at least for the time being, things weren't too bad - so the UK could
continue on as before (albeit with caution) until things got sorted out.
As a result, businesses didn't immediately start moving out and
cancelling plans for further investment and expansion.

However, things could well change for the worse if/when we really really
do leave the EU - especially if we don't get a good deal for the UK.
Once we really do pass the point of no return, at least some of the
predictions of Project Fear could become much more of a reality.
--
Ian
tim...
2018-08-19 08:46:55 UTC
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writes
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and therefore
pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Immediately the referendum result was announced, it looked like Project
Fear was starting to be fulfilled.
no it didn't
Fortunately, after the initial shock, the financial world appeared to
recognise that we hadn't left,
and that even if we did almost none of what was predicted was going to
happen
and that at least for the time being, things weren't too bad - so the UK
could continue on as before (albeit with caution) until things got sorted
out. As a result, businesses didn't immediately start moving out and
cancelling plans for further investment and expansion.
However, things could well change for the worse if/when we really really
do leave the EU - especially if we don't get a good deal for the UK.
wishful thinking of the Remoaners

tim
Ian Jackson
2018-08-19 09:49:55 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Immediately the referendum result was announced, it looked like
Project Fear was starting to be fulfilled.
no it didn't
Post by Ian Jackson
Fortunately, after the initial shock, the financial world appeared to
recognise that we hadn't left,
Please remind me what happened in the in early hours of 24 June!
Post by tim...
and that even if we did almost none of what was predicted was going to
happen
Wasn't that also a prediction?
Post by tim...
Post by Ian Jackson
and that at least for the time being, things weren't too bad - so the
UK could continue on as before (albeit with caution) until things got
sorted out. As a result, businesses didn't immediately start moving
out and cancelling plans for further investment and expansion.
However, things could well change for the worse if/when we really
really do leave the EU - especially if we don't get a good deal for
the UK.
wishful thinking of the Remoaners
Why do you call it 'wishful thinking'? No one wants things to go badly
for the UK, and I expect that those confidently predicting Project Fear
will be absolutely delighted if they turn out to be completely wrong.

By the way, at the moment, Nigel Farage (in his guise of a phone-in
host) is in full voice on LBC, preaching his increasingly hard right
wing extremist propaganda. Well worth a listen.
--
Ian
JNugent
2018-08-20 11:24:35 UTC
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...No one wants things to go badly for the UK...
No0one except the Remoaners, at least, who are doing and saying
everything they can to undermine the UK's negotiating position and to
reduce confidence generally.
JNugent
2018-08-20 11:22:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Immediately the referendum result was announced, it looked like Project
Fear was starting to be fulfilled. Fortunately, after the initial shock,
the financial world appeared to recognise that we hadn't left, and that
at least for the time being, things weren't too bad - so the UK could
continue on as before (albeit with caution) until things got sorted out.
As a result, businesses didn't immediately start moving out and
cancelling plans for further investment and expansion.
However, things could well change for the worse if/when we really really
do leave the EU - especially if we don't get a good deal for the UK.
Once we really do pass the point of no return, at least some of the
predictions of Project Fear could become much more of a reality.
See?

You're still doing it.

You can't help yourself.

If only the Remoaners spent half their time supporting Britain rather
than trying to talk it down (and spent the other half down at the pub),
perhaps our collective problems might be slightly reduced.
Ian Jackson
2018-08-20 15:53:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by JNugent
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
Immediately the referendum result was announced, it looked like
Project Fear was starting to be fulfilled. Fortunately, after the
initial shock, the financial world appeared to recognise that we
hadn't left, and that at least for the time being, things weren't too
so the UK could continue on as before (albeit with caution) until
things got sorted out. As a result, businesses didn't immediately
start moving out and cancelling plans for further investment and
expansion.
However, things could well change for the worse if/when we really
really do leave the EU - especially if we don't get a good deal for
the UK. Once we really do pass the point of no return, at least some
of the predictions of Project Fear could become much more of a reality.
See?
You're still doing it.
You can't help yourself.
If only the Remoaners spent half their time supporting Britain rather
than trying to talk it down (and spent the other half down at the pub),
perhaps our collective problems might be slightly reduced.
You continue to confuse 'talking down' with 'talking about potential
problems, in the hope that by doing so they can be avoided'.

It's pretty obvious that as well as 'Project Fear', the long predicted
'Project Blame' is also starting to be fulfilled (ie if Brexit turns out
to be a total disaster, it will all be the fault of those who predicted
that Brexit would be a total disaster).
--
Ian
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-20 17:57:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
It was an immediate and persistent result of the Leave vote.
Don't be stupid.
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
So what else happened in those ten minutes - did WWIII start, UK swamped in a tsunami, asteroid strike - was there some other disaster just for this country that I somehow did not read about?

More serious of course is that over two years later the pound is even worse off.
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or USA-based
coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment. And that will
have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe things
will change (slightly) for the better.
This isn't the result of some social media campaign to boycott Starbuck because they were rude to a gay staffer, it isn't even the result of a campaign - it is just hard headed business people deciding how best to keep their money.
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
JNugent
2018-08-20 19:49:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped 10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced (EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? - was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
It was an immediate and persistent result of the Leave vote.
Don't be stupid.
Project fear was established for the pre-referendum campaign and
therefore pre-dates the referendum result. And it has not stopped since.
So what else happened in those ten minutes - did WWIII start, UK swamped in a tsunami, asteroid strike - was there some other disaster just for this country that I somehow did not read about?
More serious of course is that over two years later the pound is even worse off.
How many times does this have to be said?

THE POUND WILL NEVER RECOVER WHILST THE UK OPERATES NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES.

How hard is that to understand?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
The decision as to whether to cintinue Project Fear is entirely up to
people like you.

After all, no-one else is taking part in it.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or USA-based
coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment. And that will
have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe things
will change (slightly) for the better.
This isn't the result of some social media campaign to boycott Starbuck because they were rude to a gay staffer, it isn't even the result of a campaign - it is just hard headed business people deciding how best to keep their money.
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Which part of "...that part of..." is too difficult for you to understand?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
"Long term" here has to mean a matter of months, and preferably weeks.
In the long term, as Keynes once said, we are all dead.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
If something can only be prevented by forcing the lending of money at a
loss, perhaps we shouldn't be seeking to prevent it.

Discuss.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-21 09:03:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
So what else happened in those ten minutes - did WWIII start, UK swamped in a tsunami, asteroid strike - was there some other disaster just for this country that I somehow did not read about?
More serious of course is that over two years later the pound is even worse off.
How many times does this have to be said?
THE POUND WILL NEVER RECOVER WHILST THE UK OPERATES NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES.
How hard is that to understand?
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash with 0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum result was announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and then fell further and has still not recovered over two years later.
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
The decision as to whether to cintinue Project Fear is entirely up to
people like you.
After all, no-one else is taking part in it.
What you call project fear is group after group - hospital and ambulance managers only today, stating publicly that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for them. Conspiracy theorist Brextremists see this as an evil plot to derail their isolationist dream. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows it those who will be affected expressing genuine concern about what a mess it will be in April 2019...

SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Which part of "...that part of..." is too difficult for you to understand?
The word "whole" just before it. IME print media is strongly Brexit and has been for years. You are trying to imply the opposite, which is palpable nonsense.
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
"Long term" here has to mean a matter of months, and preferably weeks.
In the long term, as Keynes once said, we are all dead.
Any change in a timescale in which people and businesses would not be able to replan their finances would be disastrous for them and the economy. Overnight or even weeks would be folly.
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
If something can only be prevented by forcing the lending of money at a
loss, perhaps we shouldn't be seeking to prevent it.
Discuss.
Sure. The UK was about to emerge from the years of low interest rates, indeed would have probably already done so had some idiot not called a referendum. Given the result the economy was plunged back into an even bigger crisis of confidence. Still pretty bad now as our hapless government flounders its way through even trying to adopt a coherent negotiating position.

Why only yesterday: -

"Business leaders’ confidence in the economy has fallen to its lowest point so far this year as fears grow about the impact of a potential chaotic Brexit, according to a new survey published today.

The monthly Institute of Directors (IoD) tracker found 16pc more bosses on balance had a pessimistic view of the UK’s economic prospects compared to an optimistic outlook – the worst such result in 2018.
"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/19/pessimism-bosses-fear-brexit-economic-fallout/

Just keep pushing your head ever deeper into the sand.
JNugent
2018-08-21 10:53:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
So what else happened in those ten minutes - did WWIII start, UK swamped in a tsunami, asteroid strike - was there some other disaster just for this country that I somehow did not read about?
More serious of course is that over two years later the pound is even worse off.
How many times does this have to be said?
THE POUND WILL NEVER RECOVER WHILST THE UK OPERATES NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES.
How hard is that to understand?
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash with 0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum result was announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and then fell further and has still not recovered over two years later.
The pound has not been at its original (approximate) 1.5:1 against the
Euro since Brown's government abolished interest rates.

When was it last up at > 2:1 to the dollar?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
The decision as to whether to cintinue Project Fear is entirely up to
people like you.
After all, no-one else is taking part in it.
What you call project fear is group after group - hospital and ambulance managers only today, stating publicly that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for them. Conspiracy theorist Brextremists see this as an evil plot to derail their isolationist dream. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows it those who will be affected expressing genuine concern about what a mess it will be in April 2019...
Political axes being ground.

What it has to do with ambulance managers is anyone's guess. Do you have
to have a PhD in International Economics to work in the ambulance service?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Which part of "...that part of..." is too difficult for you to understand?
The word "whole" just before it.
You mean the phrase "the whole of that part"?

That is not just "the whole".

Do you always have such difficulty with English?

Surely there are might classes available to you?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
IME print media is strongly Brexit and has been for years. You are trying to imply the opposite, which is palpable nonsense.
The Grauniad? The Mirror? The Independent (yes, I know it doesn't
qualify as print any more)?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
"Long term" here has to mean a matter of months, and preferably weeks.
In the long term, as Keynes once said, we are all dead.
Any change in a timescale in which people and businesses would not be able to replan their finances would be disastrous for them and the economy. Overnight or even weeks would be folly.
...but it was pefectly acceptable (and even desirable) for savings to be
attenuated by inflation, that process starting immediately when rates
were cut and totally without notice?

Why do you favour one group over the other to that extent?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
If something can only be prevented by forcing the lending of money at a
loss, perhaps we shouldn't be seeking to prevent it.
Discuss.
Sure. The UK was about to emerge from the years of low interest rates, indeed would have probably already done so had some idiot not called a referendum. Given the result the economy was plunged back into an even bigger crisis of confidence. Still pretty bad now as our hapless government flounders its way through even trying to adopt a coherent negotiating position.
The UK economy will be in permanent crisis for as long as it costs you
money to hold sterling. We need positive interest rates (which means
rates which cancel out inflation and provide a real retiurn on top).
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Why only yesterday: -
"Business leaders’ confidence in the economy has fallen to its lowest point so far this year as fears grow about the impact of a potential chaotic Brexit, according to a new survey published today.
The monthly Institute of Directors (IoD) tracker found 16pc more bosses on balance had a pessimistic view of the UK’s economic prospects compared to an optimistic outlook – the worst such result in 2018.
"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/19/pessimism-bosses-fear-brexit-economic-fallout/
Just keep pushing your head ever deeper into the sand.
Every complaint they have - except one - will be addressed by returning
to a sane interest policy.

Of course, no-one who is being loaned money at a loss to the lender
would want to see that ended any time sooon.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-21 11:09:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash with 0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum result was announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and then fell further and has still not recovered over two years later.
The pound has not been at its original (approximate) 1.5:1 against the
Euro since Brown's government abolished interest rates.
It £1 = 1.4EU in 1999 and settled in a range of 1.5 - 1.6 until the crash.

Then it fell to <1.1.

Despite low UK interest rates, low rates in the EU meant that during 2015 - mid 2016 the rate was £1 = 1.4EU. Do you remember what happened next, do you know what the rate is now, but above all do why do you NOT understand that this is a direct result of the leave vote and a bumbled Brexit?

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-EUR
Post by JNugent
When was it last up at > 2:1 to the dollar?
1980 - IIRC the UK suffered severe inflation 1975 - 80, followed by Thatcher;s recession, resulting in the real value of the pound falling heavily against the dollar to nearly par in 1985.

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD

Interestingly I was in the US helping shift high tech comm's gear into Wall Street during the mid 1980's and whilst the low exchange rate made trips over there eye wateringly expensive, the sterling profit on shipments was huge!
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
The decision as to whether to cintinue Project Fear is entirely up to
people like you.
After all, no-one else is taking part in it.
What you call project fear is group after group - hospital and ambulance managers only today, stating publicly that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for them. Conspiracy theorist Brextremists see this as an evil plot to derail their isolationist dream. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows it those who will be affected expressing genuine concern about what a mess it will be in April 2019...
Political axes being ground.
What it has to do with ambulance managers is anyone's guess. Do you have
to have a PhD in International Economics to work in the ambulance service?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Which part of "...that part of..." is too difficult for you to understand?
The word "whole" just before it.
You mean the phrase "the whole of that part"?
That is not just "the whole".
Do you always have such difficulty with English?
Surely there are might classes available to you?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
IME print media is strongly Brexit and has been for years. You are trying to imply the opposite, which is palpable nonsense.
The Grauniad? The Mirror? The Independent (yes, I know it doesn't
qualify as print any more)?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
"Long term" here has to mean a matter of months, and preferably weeks.
In the long term, as Keynes once said, we are all dead.
Any change in a timescale in which people and businesses would not be able to replan their finances would be disastrous for them and the economy. Overnight or even weeks would be folly.
...but it was pefectly acceptable (and even desirable) for savings to be
attenuated by inflation, that process starting immediately when rates
were cut and totally without notice?
Why do you favour one group over the other to that extent?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
If something can only be prevented by forcing the lending of money at a
loss, perhaps we shouldn't be seeking to prevent it.
Discuss.
Sure. The UK was about to emerge from the years of low interest rates, indeed would have probably already done so had some idiot not called a referendum. Given the result the economy was plunged back into an even bigger crisis of confidence. Still pretty bad now as our hapless government flounders its way through even trying to adopt a coherent negotiating position.
The UK economy will be in permanent crisis for as long as it costs you
money to hold sterling. We need positive interest rates (which means
rates which cancel out inflation and provide a real retiurn on top).
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Why only yesterday: -
"Business leaders’ confidence in the economy has fallen to its lowest point so far this year as fears grow about the impact of a potential chaotic Brexit, according to a new survey published today.
The monthly Institute of Directors (IoD) tracker found 16pc more bosses on balance had a pessimistic view of the UK’s economic prospects compared to an optimistic outlook – the worst such result in 2018.
"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/19/pessimism-bosses-fear-brexit-economic-fallout/
Just keep pushing your head ever deeper into the sand.
Every complaint they have - except one - will be addressed by returning
to a sane interest policy.
Of course, no-one who is being loaned money at a loss to the lender
would want to see that ended any time sooon.
Norman Wells
2018-08-21 11:25:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Despite low UK interest rates, low rates in the EU meant that during 2015 - mid 2016 the rate was £1 = 1.4EU. Do you remember what happened next, do you know what the rate is now, but above all do why do you NOT understand that this is a direct result of the leave vote and a bumbled Brexit?
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-EUR
Post by JNugent
When was it last up at > 2:1 to the dollar?
1980
No, 2007.

It goes up, it goes down, mainly through speculators speculating. It's
a very unreliable indicator of actual economic health.
JNugent
2018-08-21 11:37:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash with 0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum result was announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and then fell further and has still not recovered over two years later.
The pound has not been at its original (approximate) 1.5:1 against the
Euro since Brown's government abolished interest rates.
It £1 = 1.4EU in 1999 and settled in a range of 1.5 - 1.6 until the crash.
That was certainly an achievement: the Euro didn't exist in 1999.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then it fell to <1.1.
Despite low UK interest rates, low rates in the EU meant that during 2015 - mid 2016 the rate was £1 = 1.4EU. Do you remember what happened next, do you know what the rate is now, but above all do why do you NOT understand that this is a direct result of the leave vote and a bumbled Brexit?
DO you mean after Carney cut the UK's interst rates yet again?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-EUR
Post by JNugent
When was it last up at > 2:1 to the dollar?
1980 - IIRC the UK suffered severe inflation 1975 - 80, followed by Thatcher;s recession, resulting in the real value of the pound falling heavily against the dollar to nearly par in 1985.
Certainly in 1976.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD
Interestingly I was in the US helping shift high tech comm's gear into Wall Street during the mid 1980's and whilst the low exchange rate made trips over there eye wateringly expensive, the sterling profit on shipments was huge!
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
If only it could be.
It could, but probably won't be.
The decision is up to people who think like you.
The decision should be up to the people.
The decision as to whether to cintinue Project Fear is entirely up to
people like you.
After all, no-one else is taking part in it.
What you call project fear is group after group - hospital and ambulance managers only today, stating publicly that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for them. Conspiracy theorist Brextremists see this as an evil plot to derail their isolationist dream. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows it those who will be affected expressing genuine concern about what a mess it will be in April 2019...
Political axes being ground.
What it has to do with ambulance managers is anyone's guess. Do you have
to have a PhD in International Economics to work in the ambulance service?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
I agree that it isn't just social media.
It is the whole of that part of the media which supports the
left/liberal elite.
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun, Express, Mail...
Which part of "...that part of..." is too difficult for you to understand?
The word "whole" just before it.
You mean the phrase "the whole of that part"?
That is not just "the whole".
Do you always have such difficulty with English?
Surely there are might classes available to you?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
IME print media is strongly Brexit and has been for years. You are trying to imply the opposite, which is palpable nonsense.
The Grauniad? The Mirror? The Independent (yes, I know it doesn't
qualify as print any more)?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
The housing market is badly inflated by the capitalisation of low interest rates. OTOH raising interest rates overnight to say the long term average (and typical 2.5% above inflation) of around 5% would cause severe dislocation in the housing market due to enforced or duress sales of people who could no longer pay their home loans.
There are *always* people whio have just taken ouyt a mortgage recently.
Are you saying that interest loans must kept negative (when inflation in
taken into account) permanently on order to accommodate them?
If you're not saying that, what *are* you saying?
I am that "All overnight tonight, if possible." would be lunacy and seriously dislocate the housing and financial markets and seriously damage the economy. A long term return to normal rates would be sensible.
"Long term" here has to mean a matter of months, and preferably weeks.
In the long term, as Keynes once said, we are all dead.
Any change in a timescale in which people and businesses would not be able to replan their finances would be disastrous for them and the economy. Overnight or even weeks would be folly.
...but it was pefectly acceptable (and even desirable) for savings to be
attenuated by inflation, that process starting immediately when rates
were cut and totally without notice?
Why do you favour one group over the other to that extent?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Knock on effects of mass bankruptcy and homelessness would cause
serious social disruption. Any medicine would need to be gradual.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Then there would be the effect on industry and commerce...
No-one can expect negative interest rates to last.
Indeed. Things were returning to normal but the the BoE had to take even more extreme measures than the 2008 crash to prevent a loss of confidence resulting from the leave vote causing an immediate and deep recession.
If something can only be prevented by forcing the lending of money at a
loss, perhaps we shouldn't be seeking to prevent it.
Discuss.
Sure. The UK was about to emerge from the years of low interest rates, indeed would have probably already done so had some idiot not called a referendum. Given the result the economy was plunged back into an even bigger crisis of confidence. Still pretty bad now as our hapless government flounders its way through even trying to adopt a coherent negotiating position.
The UK economy will be in permanent crisis for as long as it costs you
money to hold sterling. We need positive interest rates (which means
rates which cancel out inflation and provide a real retiurn on top).
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Why only yesterday: -
"Business leaders’ confidence in the economy has fallen to its lowest point so far this year as fears grow about the impact of a potential chaotic Brexit, according to a new survey published today.
The monthly Institute of Directors (IoD) tracker found 16pc more bosses on balance had a pessimistic view of the UK’s economic prospects compared to an optimistic outlook – the worst such result in 2018.
"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/19/pessimism-bosses-fear-brexit-economic-fallout/
Just keep pushing your head ever deeper into the sand.
Every complaint they have - except one - will be addressed by returning
to a sane interest policy.
Of course, no-one who is being loaned money at a loss to the lender
would want to see that ended any time sooon.
tim...
2018-08-21 12:06:03 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash with
0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum result was
announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and then fell further
and has still not recovered over two years later.
The pound has not been at its original (approximate) 1.5:1 against the
Euro since Brown's government abolished interest rates.
It £1 = 1.4EU in 1999 and settled in a range of 1.5 - 1.6 until the crash.
That was certainly an achievement: the Euro didn't exist in 1999.
it didn't exists in monetary form, but it did exist in a virtual form

tim
JNugent
2018-08-21 12:57:26 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Very hard, seeing how it had recovered quite a lot after the crash
with 0.5% interest rates until the very moment the referendum
result was announced, at which point it IMMEDIATELY fell 10% and
then fell further and has still not recovered over two years later.
The pound has not been at its original (approximate) 1.5:1 against the
Euro since Brown's government abolished interest rates.
It £1 = 1.4EU in 1999 and settled in a range of 1.5 - 1.6 until the crash.
That was certainly an achievement: the Euro didn't exist in 1999.
it didn't exists in monetary form, but it did exist in a virtual form
I am well aware of the ECU (part of the mechanism which did so much
damage to the UK's economy between 1990 and 1992).

And how was the exchange rate against the pound determined?

Handsome Jack
2018-08-20 20:57:43 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
--
Jack
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-21 09:07:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
--
Jack
This sort of b*****ks

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-brexit-mqdb3890m
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-status-quo-96llgz00h
Handsome Jack
2018-08-21 09:57:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-
brexit-mqdb3890m
"The EU was always going to punish us for Brexit ...
Attacking Brussels for ‘intransigence’ shows how deluded Leavers are
about their ability to strike a favourable deal ... the felling of
Easter Island’s trees is perhaps the only act of self-sabotage in
history that rivals Brexit."

That's a pro-Brexit story?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-
status-quo-96llgz00h
OK - I give you that one.
--
Jack
JNugent
2018-08-21 10:56:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-
brexit-mqdb3890m
"The EU was always going to punish us for Brexit ...
Attacking Brussels for ‘intransigence’ shows how deluded Leavers are
about their ability to strike a favourable deal ... the felling of
Easter Island’s trees is perhaps the only act of self-sabotage in
history that rivals Brexit."
That's a pro-Brexit story?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-
status-quo-96llgz00h
OK - I give you that one.
You shouldn't have.

It was an opinion piece by Peter Lilley. Not a news story and not an
editorial. It does not represent the view of the Times as a journal.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-21 11:11:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-
brexit-mqdb3890m
"The EU was always going to punish us for Brexit ...
Attacking Brussels for ‘intransigence’ shows how deluded Leavers are
about their ability to strike a favourable deal ... the felling of
Easter Island’s trees is perhaps the only act of self-sabotage in
history that rivals Brexit."
That's a pro-Brexit story?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-
status-quo-96llgz00h
OK - I give you that one.
You shouldn't have.
It was an opinion piece by Peter Lilley. Not a news story and not an
editorial. It does not represent the view of the Times as a journal.
Was it printed in it or not?
JNugent
2018-08-21 11:38:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-
brexit-mqdb3890m
"The EU was always going to punish us for Brexit ...
Attacking Brussels for ‘intransigence’ shows how deluded Leavers are
about their ability to strike a favourable deal ... the felling of
Easter Island’s trees is perhaps the only act of self-sabotage in
history that rivals Brexit."
That's a pro-Brexit story?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-
status-quo-96llgz00h
OK - I give you that one.
You shouldn't have.
It was an opinion piece by Peter Lilley. Not a news story and not an
editorial. It does not represent the view of the Times as a journal.
Was it printed in it or not?
Did it represent the opinion of the Guardian as a publication or not?

It did not, yet you are deceitfully trying to imply that it did.
JNugent
2018-08-21 11:42:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-
brexit-mqdb3890m
"The EU was always going to punish us for Brexit ...
Attacking Brussels for ‘intransigence’ shows how deluded Leavers are
about their ability to strike a favourable deal ... the felling of
Easter Island’s trees is perhaps the only act of self-sabotage in
history that rivals Brexit."
That's a pro-Brexit story?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-
status-quo-96llgz00h
OK - I give you that one.
You shouldn't have.
It was an opinion piece by Peter Lilley. Not a news story and not an
editorial. It does not represent the view of the Times as a journal.
Was it printed in it or not?
Did it represent the opinion of the Guardian as a publication or not?
It did not, yet you are deceitfully trying to imply that it did.
ERRATUM: "The Guardian" should have read "The Times".
JNugent
2018-08-21 10:55:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by R. Mark Clayton
How odd, I went past WH Smith the other day and just about every
newspaper was running pro Brexit stories - Times, Telegraph, Sun,
Express, Mail...
What pro Brexit story was The Times running?
--
Jack
This sort of b*****ks
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-was-always-going-to-punish-us-for-brexit-mqdb3890m
An opinion piece. Not a news story. Not an editoral. Even the Guardian
occasionally runs opinion pieces not in tune with its usual loony
standpoint.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-no-deal-brexit-is-better-than-status-quo-96llgz00h
Another opinion piece. Not a news story. Not an editoral. Even the
Guardian occasionally runs opinion pieces not in tune with its usual
loony standpoint.
Pamela
2018-08-18 15:33:23 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-
sets-
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-
H
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
unt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-
Ch
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
equers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't
have to. The governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to
normal and do away with the Carney experiment which is proving
so disastrous for the international value of sterling. Then,
the pound would rise against the dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
Post by MM
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise
in value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is
now secretly planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not
cause too much upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008 and
that's because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy.
Nothing to do with referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was
steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped
10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced
(EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did
something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? -
was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
If only it could be.
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or
USA-based coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment.
And that will have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe
things will change (slightly) for the better.
Manipulating the market with false sentiment is not going to work
well in the long term. I prefer to speak the truth even if Leavers
don't like it.
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against
the UK and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having
the Treasury regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and
getting our interest rates back to normal. All overnight tonight,
if possible. It would also have a desirable effect on the housing
market.
That would take us back to the bad old days when the MLR was a
political football. Creating the MPC was one of the very few good
things Gordon Brown did.
JNugent
2018-08-18 19:59:05 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Pamela
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-
sets-
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-
H
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
unt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-
Ch
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
equers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't
have to. The governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to
normal and do away with the Carney experiment which is proving
so disastrous for the international value of sterling. Then,
the pound would rise against the dollar and the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who are
causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
Post by MM
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise
in value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is
now secretly planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not
cause too much upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008 and
that's because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy.
Nothing to do with referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was
steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped
10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced
(EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did
something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? -
was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot be
dismissed.
If only it could be.
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or
USA-based coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on sentiment.
And that will have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe
things will change (slightly) for the better.
Manipulating the market with false sentiment is not going to work
well in the long term. I prefer to speak the truth even if Leavers
don't like it.
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against
the UK and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having
the Treasury regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and
getting our interest rates back to normal. All overnight tonight,
if possible. It would also have a desirable effect on the housing
market.
That would take us back to the bad old days when the MLR was a
political football. Creating the MPC was one of the very few good
things Gordon Brown did.
Judge the quality of institutions by their results.

The MPC delivers high inflation and negative interest rates.
Pamela
2018-08-18 21:53:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 17:22:06 +0100, JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-
sets-
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-
Jeremy
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
-
H
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
unt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-
May-
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Ch
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
equers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay
more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't
have to. The governmnt needs to get our interest rates back
to normal and do away with the Carney experiment which is
proving so disastrous for the international value of
sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the dollar and
the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who
are causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise
in value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is
now secretly planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not
cause too much upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008
and that's because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy.
Nothing to do with referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped
10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced
(EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did
something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? -
was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot
be dismissed.
If only it could be.
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or
USA-based coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on
sentiment. And that will have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe
things will change (slightly) for the better.
Manipulating the market with false sentiment is not going to work
well in the long term. I prefer to speak the truth even if
Leavers don't like it.
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against
the UK and against sterling could be removed overnoight by
having the Treasury regain control of MLR, getting rid of the
MPC and getting our interest rates back to normal. All overnight
tonight, if possible. It would also have a desirable effect on
the housing market.
That would take us back to the bad old days when the MLR was a
political football. Creating the MPC was one of the very few
good things Gordon Brown did.
Judge the quality of institutions by their results.
The MPC delivers high inflation and negative interest rates.
Another spurious correlation would be to note the MPC delivered
Brexit.
JNugent
2018-08-18 22:41:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 17:22:06 +0100, JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-
sets-
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-
Jeremy
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
-
H
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
unt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-
May-
Post by JNugent
Post by Pamela
Ch
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by JNugent
Post by R. Mark Clayton
equers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay
more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't
have to. The governmnt needs to get our interest rates back
to normal and do away with the Carney experiment which is
proving so disastrous for the international value of
sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the dollar and
the euro.
Nothing to do with Carney. Norman says it's speculators who
are causing it.
You don't understand markets, do you?
I say it's Brexit that's causing it. Wanna see the pound rise
in value? Abandon Brexit! (Which I believe the government is
now secretly planning for, like a form of BRINO that will not
cause too much upset.)
The pound has been too low ever since Brown's Crash in 2008
and that's because of our plainly crazy interest rate policy.
Nothing to do with referendum results.
The pound dropped 20% as a results of Brown's crash, but was steadily recovering.
You still appear to be in abject denial that the pound dropped
10% in the ten minutes after the "Leave" result was announced
(EXACTLY as I predicted) and has not recovered since - did
something else major happen in the early hours of 2016-06-24? -
was Gordon Brown even an MP then?
I agree that the more undesirable effect of Project Fear cannot
be dismissed.
If only it could be.
All negative campaigns, whether against the pound sterling or
USA-based coffee-shop companies, do have some effect on
sentiment. And that will have effects.
Stop camapigning against Britain and its electorate. Then maybe
things will change (slightly) for the better.
Manipulating the market with false sentiment is not going to work
well in the long term. I prefer to speak the truth even if
Leavers don't like it.
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against
the UK and against sterling could be removed overnoight by
having the Treasury regain control of MLR, getting rid of the
MPC and getting our interest rates back to normal. All overnight
tonight, if possible. It would also have a desirable effect on
the housing market.
That would take us back to the bad old days when the MLR was a
political football. Creating the MPC was one of the very few
good things Gordon Brown did.
Judge the quality of institutions by their results.
The MPC delivers high inflation and negative interest rates.
Another spurious correlation would be to note the MPC delivered
Brexit.
They cannot take the credit for that, but they do seem collectively
determined to punish the electorate for it.
MM
2018-08-20 08:30:01 UTC
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Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
Any overnight panic measure of the sort you envisage would likely push
the pound further down.

MM
JNugent
2018-08-20 11:25:17 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
Any overnight panic measure of the sort you envisage would likely push
the pound further down.
You failed your Economics CSE, didn't you?
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-20 18:00:29 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
Any overnight panic measure of the sort you envisage would likely push
the pound further down.
You failed your Economics CSE, didn't you?
Putting interest rates up say 1% would strengthen the pound. Putting them up 4 - 5% would cause mayhem. Not sure which way it would go, but probably not up.
JNugent
2018-08-20 19:50:58 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by JNugent
In the meantime, the effects of the Remoaners' campaign against the UK
and against sterling could be removed overnoight by having the Treasury
regain control of MLR, getting rid of the MPC and getting our interest
rates back to normal. All overnight tonight, if possible. It would also
have a desirable effect on the housing market.
Any overnight panic measure of the sort you envisage would likely push
the pound further down.
You failed your Economics CSE, didn't you?
Putting interest rates up say 1% would strengthen the pound. Putting them up 4 - 5% would cause mayhem. Not sure which way it would go, but probably not up.
1% is still a negative interest rate. Minimum rates always need to be at
least 1% above the rate of inflation (and preferably more).
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-18 11:37:24 UTC
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"JNugent" <***@mail.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
: On 17/08/2018 17:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
:
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
abelard
2018-08-18 11:45:52 UTC
Reply
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?

a more open civil servant in that position is no great problem
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-18 11:56:51 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
Post by abelard
a more open civil servant in that position is no great problem
abelard
2018-08-18 12:02:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
'import inflation' is a strange term

reducing the value of currencies is practiced all over
the world and has been for centuries...

governments love inflation
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
a more open civil servant in that position is no great problem
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-18 13:07:13 UTC
Reply
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Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
'import inflation' is a strange term
Not at all. The RPI / DPI / Whatever other index is preferred this week
is bid up by higher prices for essential imports, let alone
non-essential ones.
Post by abelard
reducing the value of currencies is practiced all over
the world and has been for centuries...
It cannot end well.
Post by abelard
governments love inflation
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
a more open civil servant in that position is no great problem
abelard
2018-08-18 13:48:56 UTC
Reply
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
'import inflation' is a strange term
Not at all. The RPI / DPI / Whatever other index is preferred this week
is bid up by higher prices for essential imports, let alone
non-essential ones.
government stats are mostly pants...they are manipulated for
political purposes deliberately to confuse the hoi polloi
and you seem well aware of that fact

are you confusing prices with inflation(it's certainly what government
hope you will do)
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
reducing the value of currencies is practiced all over
the world and has been for centuries...
It cannot end well.
we're wealthier than we were 100 years ago...we may well
by wealthier in another 100 years...
unless we pollute ourselves and war ourselves and consume ourselves
into the poor house

i continue to find your posts difficult to understand!

why do you believe inflation(money printing) is very relevant?
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-08-18 19:58:01 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
'import inflation' is a strange term
Not at all. The RPI / DPI / Whatever other index is preferred this week
is bid up by higher prices for essential imports, let alone
non-essential ones.
government stats are mostly pants...they are manipulated for
political purposes deliberately to confuse the hoi polloi
and you seem well aware of that fact
are you confusing prices with inflation(it's certainly what government
hope you will do)
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
reducing the value of currencies is practiced all over
the world and has been for centuries...
It cannot end well.
we're wealthier than we were 100 years ago...we may well
by wealthier in another 100 years...
unless we pollute ourselves and war ourselves and consume ourselves
into the poor house
i continue to find your posts difficult to understand!
why do you believe inflation(money printing) is very relevant?
Inflation is a social evil.

That is well-established. Only the loonier end of the left-wing doesn't
believe it.
Joe
2018-08-18 20:11:04 UTC
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:58:01 +0100
Post by JNugent
Inflation is a social evil.
That is well-established. Only the loonier end of the left-wing
doesn't believe it.
It's actually governments of all colours who don't believe it. It is a
form of wealth tax, and no politician ever saw a tax he didn't like.
--
Joe
tim...
2018-08-19 06:40:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by Joe
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:58:01 +0100
Post by JNugent
Inflation is a social evil.
That is well-established. Only the loonier end of the left-wing
doesn't believe it.
It's actually governments of all colours who don't believe it. It is a
form of wealth tax, and no politician ever saw a tax he didn't like.
except it only taxes people who keep their wealth as cash (GBP).

wealth kept as assets is unaffected

and it disproportionately the lower end of the middle who keep their wealth
as cash

and it also *rewards* the indebted, big time. Not really a messages that
you want to send to the population

tim
Joe
2018-08-19 08:34:15 UTC
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:40:54 +0100
Post by tim...
Post by Joe
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:58:01 +0100
Post by JNugent
Inflation is a social evil.
That is well-established. Only the loonier end of the left-wing
doesn't believe it.
It's actually governments of all colours who don't believe it. It
is a form of wealth tax, and no politician ever saw a tax he didn't
like.
except it only taxes people who keep their wealth as cash (GBP).
wealth kept as assets is unaffected
and it disproportionately the lower end of the middle who keep their
wealth as cash
and it also *rewards* the indebted, big time. Not really a messages
that you want to send to the population
Don't forget pensions, which may be invested in assets but are counted
in Pounds. The Pound paid out to pensioners is a pale shadow of the
Pound that was invested. Not many pension funds out-perform real
inflation for real people, particularly older people.

But there appears to be a consensus among central banks of many
countries that 2% is the 'right' inflation, and no less should be
permitted. 'Right' for whom?
--
Joe
abelard
2018-08-18 21:14:24 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 07:37:24 -0400, "BurfordTJustice"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
: >
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
: >
: > possibly because a government minister said this: -
: >
: > Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".
: >
: > Source: -
: >
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
: >
: > No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
: Not many people want to pay more for anything. And we don't have to. The
: governmnt needs to get our interest rates back to normal and do away
: with the Carney experiment which is proving so disastrous for the
: international value of sterling. Then, the pound would rise against the
: dollar and the euro.
besides his motor-mouth where has carney actually made errors
in his real job...managing the currency?
"Managing the currency" cannot include reducing its value so that we
import inflation.
'import inflation' is a strange term
Not at all. The RPI / DPI / Whatever other index is preferred this week
is bid up by higher prices for essential imports, let alone
non-essential ones.
government stats are mostly pants...they are manipulated for
political purposes deliberately to confuse the hoi polloi
and you seem well aware of that fact
are you confusing prices with inflation(it's certainly what government
hope you will do)
Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
reducing the value of currencies is practiced all over
the world and has been for centuries...
It cannot end well.
we're wealthier than we were 100 years ago...we may well
by wealthier in another 100 years...
unless we pollute ourselves and war ourselves and consume ourselves
into the poor house
i continue to find your posts difficult to understand!
why do you believe inflation(money printing) is very relevant?
Inflation is a social evil.
That is well-established. Only the loonier end of the left-wing doesn't
believe it.
joe is correct

only the left admit but they have another motive...to cause so much
disruption that they can take over the government

for that they tend to want a higher degree of inflation...like hitler,
stalin, mugabe etc...and now maduro

the inflation every government goes for is much slower erosion
--
www.abelard.org
Norman Wells
2018-08-17 17:29:43 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?

The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.

Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-17 17:48:53 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a mistake we would regret for generations".

Obviously I think that Brexit is something Brits will regret for generations, but I thought it would make the veins on you neck bulge if I left the preamble out...

Note several differing versions are given in the Express article, but that is their standard of journalism.
Norman Wells
2018-08-17 17:58:54 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling.
So, that makes it alright then, does it?
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I just left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a mistake we would regret for generations".
Obviously I think that Brexit is something Brits will regret for generations, but I thought it would make the veins on you neck bulge if I left the preamble out...
Is this standard practice for LibDems? Do they not have any arguments
at all unless they lie and misrepresent?

Whatever happened to honesty?
Pamela
2018-08-18 16:33:14 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-
wo
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
rst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-
Hun
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
t-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-
Cheque
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
rs
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to
strike a Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a
mistake 'if we have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling.
So, that makes it alright then, does it?
It means you were wrong to say it was a misrepresentation.
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I just left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal]
Brexit would be a mistake we would regret for generations".
Obviously I think that Brexit is something Brits will regret for
generations, but I thought it would make the veins on you neck
bulge if I left the preamble out...
Is this standard practice for LibDems? Do they not have any
arguments at all unless they lie and misrepresent?
Whatever happened to honesty?
Brexiteers threw out honesty long ago (during the referendum
campaign) and replaced it with lies.
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 17:08:50 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-
wo
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
rst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for
generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-
Hun
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
t-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-
Cheque
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
rs
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to
strike a Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a
mistake 'if we have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling.
So, that makes it alright then, does it?
It means you were wrong to say it was a misrepresentation.
It most certainly does not.
tim...
2018-08-17 20:00:31 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.

it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.

tim
Yellow
2018-08-18 00:26:45 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
MM
2018-08-18 07:37:58 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
...which you fear, as the recent opinion polls show that the public
are moving steadily towards remain.

MM
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 08:30:21 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
...which you fear, as the recent opinion polls show that the public
are moving steadily towards remain.
But no-one in Parliament except the LibDems who, I imagine, at this very
moment have returned to their constituencies and preparing for government.
tim...
2018-08-18 08:37:15 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
...which you fear, as the recent opinion polls show that the public
are moving steadily towards remain.
but only because they are being conditioned by fake news into thinking that
there will be chaos because of "no deal"

when there wont be

As I have already told you. Once the process is over and there *is* a deal,

all of this movement from Leave to Remain, will swing back again.

It's a nonsense to look at the figures during this period of uncertainty and
think that they are representative

Remoaners are only fooling themselves with this position.

tim
Pamela
2018-08-18 16:31:23 UTC
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Post by tim...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 01:26:45 +0100, Yellow
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
On Friday, 17 August 2018 18:29:45 UTC+1, Norman Wells
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay
more for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing
to strike a Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it
would be a mistake 'if we have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and
dissembling. I just left out the words in square brackets as
in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a mistake we would regret for
generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever
opportunity in a forlorn hope of getting the population to
agree to their preferred alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
...which you fear, as the recent opinion polls show that the
public are moving steadily towards remain.
but only because they are being conditioned by fake news into
thinking that there will be chaos because of "no deal" when there
wont be
Do you have any proof of that or is it just part of Brexit Project
Bluff?
Post by tim...
As I have already told you. Once the process is over and there
*is* a deal, all of this movement from Leave to Remain, will swing
back again.
How do you know that to be a fact? It seems like pure conjecture.
Post by tim...
It's a nonsense to look at the figures during this period of
uncertainty and think that they are representative
The current figures are representative of what people are thinking
now. If a second referendum is held now then their current views
would be relevant.
Post by tim...
Remoaners are only fooling themselves with this position.
Brexiteers have fooled themselves and gullible others but through
their incompetence have spectacularly failed to deliver in the
negotiations.
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 08:00:01 UTC
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Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
I'm just waiting for the honourable Mr Clayton to issue a correction
based on this statement from the same unimpeachable source just yesterday:

"Jeremy Hunt has insisted that Britain would 'survive and prosper' after
a no-deal Brexit".

http://www.itv.com/news/2018-08-17/uk-can-survive-and-prosper-after-no-deal-brexit-jeremy-hunt/

Nothing so far though. I wonder why.
Pamela
2018-08-18 10:29:03 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-
sets-
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-
H
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
unt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-
Ch
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
equers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more
for tea, coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing
to strike a Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would
be a mistake 'if we have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and
dissembling. I just left out the words in square brackets as
in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a mistake we would regret for
generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever
opportunity in a forlorn hope of getting the population to agree
to their preferred alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
I'm just waiting for the honourable Mr Clayton to issue a
correction based on this statement from the same unimpeachable
"Jeremy Hunt has insisted that Britain would 'survive and prosper'
after a no-deal Brexit".
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-08-17/uk-can-survive-and-prosper-
after-no-deal-brexit-jeremy-hunt/
Nothing so far though. I wonder why.
Maybe he's got better things to do than reply to a troll. Don't say
you weren't warned about your trolling.
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 11:01:11 UTC
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Post by Norman Wells
Post by Yellow
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
And it is also to whip up support for another referendum.
I'm just waiting for the honourable Mr Clayton to issue a correction
The source was given (Express) a Brexit paper! They did give several versions of what he said.
Post by Norman Wells
"Jeremy Hunt has insisted that Britain would 'survive and prosper' after
a no-deal Brexit".
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-08-17/uk-can-survive-and-prosper-after-no-deal-brexit-jeremy-hunt/
Jeremy is playing the Delphic oracle card.

When Rome was just small kingdom central Italy the King of the Etruscans (who ruled Sicily) consulted the Oracle. "If I attack Rome, what will happen?" he asked. "If you attack Rome a great kingdom will be lost." was the reply. Emboldened he attacked Rome and was thoroughly routed. He returned to the Oracle and demanded "You said if I attacked Rome a great Kingdom would be lost!" - "Was yours not a great Kingdom?" came the reply.

Hunt was clearly referring to to the much greater long term relative damage that would be inflicted upon the Brits by a no / poor deal Brexit, but cleverly said he meant the EU, for whom (apart from Ireland) that would be little more than a blip.
Post by Norman Wells
Nothing so far though. I wonder why.
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 16:03:47 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a ?mistake we would regret for generations?.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
I'm just waiting for the honourable Mr Clayton to issue a correction
"Jeremy Hunt has insisted that Britain would 'survive and prosper'
after a no-deal Brexit".
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The source was given (Express) a Brexit paper! They did give several versions of what he said.
So, no correction forthcoming even of an obvious lie.

How long are the 'generations' you think Mr Hunt was referring to, Mark?
Give your best guess in years.
MM
2018-08-18 07:36:49 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by Norman Wells
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers
No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
Is there nothing you won't stoop so low as to lie about?
The article you've cited says Jeremy Hunt suggested 'failing to strike a
Brexit deal' could fuel regret, and that it would be a mistake 'if we
have a messy, ugly divorce'.
Why do you fundamentally misrepresent him?
Ah Norman, you fail to distinguish between lying and dissembling. I just
left out the words in square brackets as in "[A no deal] Brexit would be a
mistake we would regret for generations".
No-one with any sense expects a No Deal brexit.
Not true. The government is now planning for it.
Post by tim...
it's just something that the Remoaners big up at ever opportunity in a
forlorn hope of getting the population to agree to their preferred
alternative - staying in.
Ah, blame Remainers for this huge mistake made by Brexiters!

Good one.

MM
tim...
2018-08-17 19:57:40 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
actually he appears to have said:

A "No Deal Brexit" ...

and also ISTR that he said "A generation", but it's now moved off the front
page and I can't find it

tim
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 11:14:52 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2
possibly because a government minister said this: -
Brexit would be a “mistake we would regret for generations”.
A "No Deal Brexit" ...
Yes yes, but I left "A no deal" out so Norman would spit out his dummy... Which he duly did clean out of his pram.
Post by tim...
and also ISTR that he said "A generation", but it's now moved off the front
page and I can't find it
tim
The Express gave four different versions in the same article. OTOH

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-no-deal-jeremy-hunt-mistake-negotiations-eu-a8495406.html

gives "A no-deal Brexit would be a 'mistake we would regret for generations', says Jeremy Hunt"

I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU citizens, who can immediately replace UK goods with UK ones, whereas there are only about 60M Brits and no alternative market for our goods until the mythical RoW trade deals are negotiated...

Most sources give "generations": -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/16/jeremy-hunt-warns-no-deal-brexit-would-amistake-generations/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6069311/Voters-regret-messy-ugly-no-deal-Brexit-generations-warns-Jeremy-Hunt.html
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/uk-would-regret-no-deal-brexit-generations-jeremy-hunt-warns
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16371785.no-deal-brexit-would-harm-uk-eu-relations-for-generation-warns-foreign-secretary-jeremy-hunt/
kat
2018-08-18 11:50:32 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".

https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
^..^<
R. Mark Clayton
2018-08-18 13:21:09 UTC
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Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for trading terms it is. Brexit will not affect them evenly. Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30% of its trade is with the UK.

Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from D). Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread out fairly thinly in continental Europe and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports rendered noncompetitive by tariffs. The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors and areas will also be harder hit than others.
kat
2018-08-18 15:08:55 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for trading terms it is. Brexit will not affect them evenly. Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30% of its trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from D). Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread out fairly thinly in continental Europe and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports rendered noncompetitive by tariffs. The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors and areas will also be harder hit than others.
So you now agree it isn't "spread" over the whole population.
--
kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
^..^<
tim...
2018-08-18 18:06:25 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified
this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the
detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for trading terms
it is. Brexit will not affect them evenly. Ireland will be very badly
affect because IIRC ~30% of its trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant ones and
also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from D). Nevertheless the
pain of a hard Brexit will be spread out fairly thinly in continental
Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports rendered
noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont. Most of what the UK sells overseas is not utility products,
it is specialist products for which the major competition is from the US.
EU companies will not fill the void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors and areas
will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position. the EU can't
(for that you should read wont)

tim
kat
2018-08-18 20:50:16 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this
to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects
will be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
    kat
      >^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for trading terms it
is.  Brexit will not affect them evenly.  Ireland will be very badly affect
because IIRC ~30% of its trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant ones and also
those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from D).  Nevertheless the pain of
a hard Brexit will be spread out fairly thinly in continental Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports rendered
noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont.  Most of what the UK sells overseas is not utility products, it
is specialist products for which the major competition is from the US. EU
companies will not fill the void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors and areas
will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position.  the EU can't (for
that you should read wont)
tim
Erm, I didn't write the post to which you are replying... Mark did.
--
kat
Post by tim...
^..^<
Pamela
2018-08-18 22:09:39 UTC
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Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since
clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although
clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU
citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
    kat
      >^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for
trading terms it is.  Brexit will not affect them evenly. 
Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30% of its
trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant
ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from
D).  Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread out
fairly thinly in continental Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports
rendered noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont.  Most of what the UK sells overseas is not
utility products, it is specialist products for which the major
competition is from the US. EU companies will not fill the void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors
and areas will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position.  the
EU can't (for that you should read wont)
tim
Erm, I didn't write the post to which you are replying... Mark did.
Why doesn't your Mozilla wrap lines in the usual way?

Those long lines with a single leading quote character wrap to look as
if they're written by you.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=153463004600
kat
2018-08-19 13:29:06 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since
clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although
clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M EU
citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
    kat
      >^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for
trading terms it is.  Brexit will not affect them evenly.Â
Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30% of its
trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant
ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from
D).  Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread out
fairly thinly in continental Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports
rendered noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont.  Most of what the UK sells overseas is not
utility products, it is specialist products for which the major
competition is from the US. EU companies will not fill the void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors
and areas will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position.  the
EU can't (for that you should read wont)
tim
Erm, I didn't write the post to which you are replying... Mark did.
Why doesn't your Mozilla wrap lines in the usual way?
Those long lines with a single leading quote character wrap to look as
if they're written by you.
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=153463004600
According to the instructions, I have it set to wrap, so why that looks
different I cannot tell you. It certainly wraps when I type.

But, tim replied to a post written by Mark, replying to the one you show, yet
attributed it to me. Not sure why or how that happened, but it shouldn't be
affected by wrapping.
--
kat
Post by Pamela
^..^<
Pamela
2018-08-19 13:42:42 UTC
Reply
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Post by kat
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since
clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although
clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M
EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and
the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a03
40
--
    kat
      >^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for
trading terms it is.  Brexit will not affect them
evenly. Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30%
of its trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant
ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from
D).  Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread
out fairly thinly in continental Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in
certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK
exports rendered noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont.  Most of what the UK sells overseas is not
utility products, it is specialist products for which the major
competition is from the US. EU companies will not fill the
void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some
sectors and areas will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position. 
the EU can't (for that you should read wont)
tim
Erm, I didn't write the post to which you are replying... Mark did.
Why doesn't your Mozilla wrap lines in the usual way?
Those long lines with a single leading quote character wrap to
look as if they're written by you.
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=153463004600
According to the instructions, I have it set to wrap, so why that
looks different I cannot tell you. It certainly wraps when I
type.
Maybe it is Mark who's not wrapping his lines. So when you quoted his
words they make a very long line. My newsreader breaks a long
unwrapped line into separate lines and shows a quote sign for each of
them.
Post by kat
But, tim replied to a post written by Mark, replying to the one
you show, yet attributed it to me. Not sure why or how that
happened, but it shouldn't be affected by wrapping.
The web link shows a quoted line without wrapping. In a reader it
wraps to 3 or 4 lines but only the first line is marked with a
quotation character. The follow-on lines look as if you wrote them.

Tim replied to Mark's text in your message because it looked as if it
was your text.
kat
2018-08-19 14:55:11 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by tim...
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by kat
Post by R. Mark Clayton
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since
clarified this to say he meant all the EU and UK, although
clearly the detrimental effects will be spread over ~500M
EU citizens,
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and
the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a03
40
--
    kat
      >^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for
trading terms it is.  Brexit will not affect them
evenly. Ireland will be very badly affect because IIRC ~30%
of its trade is with the UK.
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant
ones and also those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from
D).  Nevertheless the pain of a hard Brexit will be spread
out fairly thinly in continental Europe
except that you've just admitted that it will be lumpy in
certain areas
Post by R. Mark Clayton
and the remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK
exports rendered noncompetitive by tariffs.
but they wont.  Most of what the UK sells overseas is not
utility products, it is specialist products for which the major
competition is from the US. EU companies will not fill the
void.
Post by R. Mark Clayton
The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some
sectors and areas will also be harder hit than others.
but we can take economic measures to counter our position.ÂÂ
the EU can't (for that you should read wont)
tim
Erm, I didn't write the post to which you are replying... Mark did.
Why doesn't your Mozilla wrap lines in the usual way?
Those long lines with a single leading quote character wrap to
look as if they're written by you.
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=153463004600
According to the instructions, I have it set to wrap, so why that
looks different I cannot tell you. It certainly wraps when I
type.
Maybe it is Mark who's not wrapping his lines. So when you quoted his
words they make a very long line. My newsreader breaks a long
unwrapped line into separate lines and shows a quote sign for each of
them.
Possibly. My reader marks with lines rather than >>>, and shows the lines when
I read my own post, but, if I copy and paste you can see that Mark's comments
to which I replied lose the >

here's the copy...
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by Pamela
I took "we" here to mean the Brits, however Hunt has since clarified this
to say he meant all the EU and UK, although clearly the detrimental effects will
be spread over ~500M EU citizens,
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
So you constantly say, but the EU isn't one big country, and the IMF doesn't see
this "spread".
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f4f0ec-8bcd-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340
--
kat
Post by Pamela
^..^<
No the EU is not "one big country" although currently for trading terms it
is. Brexit will not affect them evenly. Ireland will be very badly affect
because IIRC ~30% of its trade is with the UK.
Post by Pamela
Nearer countries (NL & F) will be affected more than distant ones and also
those with whom we trade a lot (e.g. cars from D). Nevertheless the pain of a
hard Brexit will be spread out fairly thinly in continental Europe and the
remaining EU members can take up the slack of UK exports rendered noncompetitive
by tariffs. The UK will bear the full brunt, although obviously some sectors
and areas will also be harder hit than others.
So you now agree it isn't "spread" over the whole population.
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
But, tim replied to a post written by Mark, replying to the one
you show, yet attributed it to me. Not sure why or how that
happened, but it shouldn't be affected by wrapping.
The web link shows a quoted line without wrapping. In a reader it
wraps to 3 or 4 lines but only the first line is marked with a
quotation character. The follow-on lines look as if you wrote them.
No they don't.
Post by Pamela
Post by kat
Post by Pamela
long line written by Mark. No wrapping
two lines written by me that have wrapped. ( "So you constantly say...")
followed by link and sig.
Post by Pamela
long line written by Mark followed by long line with no >
Then my reply.
"So you now agree it isn't "spread" over the whole population."

It might be mark isn't wrapping when composing, my thunderbird wraps it for me
to read, it certainly wraps what I write, but for reasons I cannot give doesn't
wrap quoted stuff that wasn't wrapped!


tim replied to my post, but deleted my comment.
Norman Wells
2018-08-18 16:07:44 UTC
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Post by R. Mark Clayton
The Express gave four different versions in the same article. OTOH
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-no-deal-jeremy-hunt-mistake-negotiations-eu-a8495406.html
gives "A no-deal Brexit would be a 'mistake we would regret for generations', says Jeremy Hunt"
Must be a jolly long time then for you to get excited about it.

Are they longer generations than in the 'once in a generation' promise
in the EU referendum leaflet then?
BurfordTJustice
2018-08-18 11:36:59 UTC
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"R. Mark Clayton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8291d341-d026-4bba-b68c-***@googlegroups.com...
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-sterling/pound-sets-worst-weekly-streak-against-dollar-since-2014-idUKKBN1L20Z2

possibly because a government minister said this: -

Brexit would be a "mistake we would regret for generations".

Source: -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004657/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Hunt-UK-EU-withdrawal-regret-European-law-latest-Theresa-May-Chequers

No doubt Norman will be along to say people want to pay more for tea,
coffee, chocolate, orange juice etc. etc.
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